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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2025, 01:45:48 PM »
AI can certainly write code that will compile.

I do not know where you are getting your information or why you are choosing to write false information.

Oh sure.  It'll do well documented stuff.  Hello world, making a login page, maybe a short function.
But ask AI to say... Write a Linux OS, and it will not compile if you get anything at all.
Or ask it to code a chat program that can send video, audio, and text.  You'll get nothing useful if anything.

And just the code to look at an image and identify objects is extremely complex.  Forget decision making on what to do with that info.

But if you believe otherwise, go ask ChatGTP to make you an auto targeting program.  Then try to compile it.
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Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2025, 02:06:28 PM »
Is ChatCPT the pinnacle of AI, LD?

Really?
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2025, 05:18:55 PM »

And you are correct, Ronj. Your experience alone does not qualify you to be an expert in the field of AI capability.
Your answer is interesting.  With lots & lots of years of experience writing code & troubleshooting computer-controlled equipment I do have a pretty good idea of how AI works.  You are probably assuming that I don’t ever use AI myself, which is false.
 
Currently AI is little more than an automated way to quickly look up details about a particular subject you are interested in.  The AI program is constantly scanning the internet and has created a large database of all kinds of basic information on different subjects. 

When you ask a question, AI can quickly access its database and compile a synopsis of the desired information and present it as an answer to your question.  AI doesn’t, by itself, generate answers, it’s basically a parrot that’s squawking out what’s been recorded in its database that’s been previously generated by experts in their respective fields. I really like it because it saves me countless hours going thru books & manuals looking up details about a software or hardware issue that I'm having.  It may not immediately give me the exact answer I'm looking for, but it usually quickly narrows down the other places I may need to look for a specific answer to my question. 

Want to do a little AI experiment?  Ask it if the earth is flat.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2025, 07:07:54 PM by RonJ »
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2025, 05:30:06 PM »
Is ChatCPT the pinnacle of AI, LD?

Really?
At present?  Probably, yeah.
In 20 years? Maybe, maybe not.
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Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2025, 06:19:01 AM »
At present, ChatGPT, i can assure you, is nowhere near the pinnacle of AI.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2025, 08:01:46 AM »
At present, ChatGPT, i can assure you, is nowhere near the pinnacle of AI.

Pinnacle for all time?  No.
But we have no idea what the pinnacle is.
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Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2025, 08:59:21 AM »
Of course, it is not the "pinnacle of all time."

And neither is it the "current pinnacle."

Regarding availability to the public, maybe, but DARPA has more advanced systems for sure.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2025, 02:27:18 PM »
Of course, it is not the "pinnacle of all time."

And neither is it the "current pinnacle."

Regarding availability to the public, maybe, but DARPA has more advanced systems for sure.
Maybe.  Maybe not.  No way to really know.  They probably have more combat centered AI systems but are their systems better than other AI models in some generic metric? 
Would a DARPA AI for coding (assuming they even have one) be better than a commercial produced one?
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Offline AATW

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2025, 04:28:53 PM »
Someone still needs to put the batteries in, charge it up, switch it on or whatever. 

Or not.
Once you have an autonomous machine capable of building a machine, then what?
Are you under the impression that computer components grow on trees or are mined from the ground intact?
We are absolutely nowhere near self-replicating machines.
And honestly your proclamations about AI writing code are ridiculous. I've seen some of the code AI produces. I must admit it's quite impressive and to someone who doesn't know better (you) it probably looks right. But unless you're talking about very, very basic programs it isn't going to work without a fair amount of human intervention and debugging.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

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Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2025, 05:41:46 PM »
I am fully aware computer parts are not engaging in abiogenesis.

It is amusing you claim machines cannot self-replicate.

Why do you insist on writing bald-faced lies?

Again, you might want to refer to AI available to the public, but that is not what this OP is about.

It is more about XAI: Explainable Artificial Intelligence

"Continued advances promise to produce autonomous systems that will perceive, learn, decide, and act on their own."

Just stfu with your bullcrap.

You lied in this thread (and in many others) and you need to go away.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 06:37:13 PM by Action80 »
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2025, 07:09:59 PM »
I am fully aware computer parts are not engaging in abiogenesis.

It is amusing you claim machines cannot self-replicate.

Why do you insist on writing bald-faced lies?

Again, you might want to refer to AI available to the public, but that is not what this OP is about.

It is more about XAI: Explainable Artificial Intelligence

"Continued advances promise to produce autonomous systems that will perceive, learn, decide, and act on their own."

Just stfu with your bullcrap.

You lied in this thread (and in many others) and you need to go away.

Did you just do a Google search to prove your point but not read the MULTIUDE of links that say 'no'?  With the exception of some Harvard guys who made some tiny organic robots that can push around stem cells and replicate that way.

And then link to a proposal for an AI model that's in early development?

Whose lying now?

The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2025, 07:15:58 PM »
AATW wrote that machines cannot self-replicate.

Machines can self-replicate.

AATW lied, I did not.

The AI program I linked to is not in early development.

From the link: "This program is now complete
This content is available for reference purposes. This page is no longer maintained."

You, too, are lying.

WTF is the matter with you?
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2025, 07:37:21 PM »
I looked at the XAI concept in the link.  This is a small evolutionary improvement in the overall AI system.  The ‘Training Data’ and ‘New Machine Learning Process’ is still the basic process that you have today.  When new (and old) concepts are studied by humans a website is usually established, and this knowledge is written down and explained.  An AI computer can now access this knowledge via the internet and can copy and catalog this information in an index for future reference.
 
Currently when I use AI, I have a concept that I’m trying to implement but need some information so I can better design a device to execute my ideas.  When I ask AI the proper questions then it presents me with the data, I need to refine my ideas and allow me to better design a device with my specific parameters so it will work as desired.  Usually, I will have to study this information, make some calculations and/or software changes, and then try out these experimental ideas to see if my objectives are obtained.  Generally, I’ll be much nearer to my overall objective but will still need to ask AI some other questions to fix some minor discrepancies and then repeat the process over again.

The new XAI model may improve this process loop by using the data it has available while incorporating my specific objectives to then apply this data and simulate the changes to the design to see if it matches the desired outcome.  If not, then it could automatically try some refinements while telling the ‘User’ (me) that here’s another idea, is this a success, or not? 
Nothing wrong with this whole process, but the XAI system is still basically an automated ‘data miner’ and is using the knowledge that was generated by humans and then placed on the internet.

I have been retired for several years now but still am actively working on my own hobby projects just for fun.  If you want to see what AI can do for you just go out a purchase an Arduino Giga R1 computer board and then see if AI can program it for you.  Sure, you can get it to program the basic ‘Hello World’ program, but all that data is readily available on the internet in the Arduino site.  Give it a more difficult program to produce and see what happens.  Then you see where the current technology is. 

That’s not to say that eventually AI will be better than the average human and a factory won’t be occupied mostly by robot workers, but that’s a long way off.  I would say that AI would be similar to a baby on the day its born into this world.  The baby’s firmware is operational, and it knows how to breath and cry and how to feed off its mother, but little else.  There will be daily improvements as it observes and learns how to interact with the environment, but it will take some time before it could expect to succeed on its own if it left home.  A robot today doesn’t know how to explore for minerals needed for a microprocessor or a battery.  How to build a power plant to power all the mining machines.  How to transport, refine, design, build, ect, ect.  Someday that may happen, but when it does most of the knowledge required will have come from humans over the centuries. 
« Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 07:40:08 PM by RonJ »
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Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2025, 07:38:54 PM »
Wall of text from Ronj, simply referencing AI available to the general public, when the OP has nothing to do with that.
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Offline RonJ

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2025, 07:42:46 PM »
Not true.
You didn't really read, or understand, the explanation for XAI that I wrote.

You can lead flat earthers to the curve but you can't make them think!

Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2025, 07:55:10 PM »
Your "explanation," of XAI is totally useless relative to the OP, as it is dismissive of the actual capabilities now in place.
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Offline RonJ

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2025, 08:02:26 PM »
I would say that it's more accurate to state that you are severely overestimating the real capabilities of the updated system.  Sure, there have been some improvements, but you seem to think that the baby can now breakdance when it can't even stand up yet. 
You can lead flat earthers to the curve but you can't make them think!

Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2025, 08:04:58 PM »
And I would say it is more a possibility you didn't read all of the linked information in the XAI website.

First, you would have noticed the project was closed.

The primary papers reporting the project were completed over four years ago.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 08:11:18 PM by Action80 »
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Offline RonJ

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2025, 08:09:09 PM »
Your guess is incorrect.  I did read all of the linked information on the XAI website and could correlate that information with my own experiences using AI in the real world.  How about YOU.  Do you really understand the technology yourself or maybe you are trying it out to see if it can troll?
You can lead flat earthers to the curve but you can't make them think!

Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2025, 08:13:52 PM »
I can correlate it with the OP, in declaring self-replicating machines and the use of autonomous weapons systems, are now a reality.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.