Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« on: August 04, 2023, 07:07:10 PM »
I'm having a complete brain shutdown actually, just total bluescreen drooling on myself duuuhhh moment here ffs! Please somebody tell me the best way to be certain of which direction I'm facing. Can I use an old school pocket compass? And even as I'm typing this out I know how ridiculously stupid it sounds but I cannot stop myself from adding that I really only need to know which way is East.
🤷🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️


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Offline Roundy

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Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2023, 08:52:54 PM »
Of course. There's nothing inherent to FET that would prevent you from being able to use a compass, and we know empirically that they function as they're supposed to. Rest easy friend!
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2023, 09:12:49 AM »
If I may ask; why East in particular? 

Dual1ty

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2023, 11:38:05 AM »
No need for the drooling.


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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2023, 12:12:08 PM »
There's nothing inherent to FET that would prevent you from being able to use a compass, and we know empirically that they function as they're supposed to. Rest easy friend!
I'd take that a step further. It's not just that FET doesn't prevent it; a compass works because FET holds true.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

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Offline AATW

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Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2023, 05:19:17 PM »
Of course. There's nothing inherent to FET that would prevent you from being able to use a compass, and we know empirically that they function as they're supposed to. Rest easy friend!
Except a compass points to magnetic north, not true north, which needs to be accounted for. I’d generally agree that could be true whatever the shape of the earth, but I don’t know what the FE explanation is for the earth having a magnetic field in the shape it does.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2023, 06:06:21 PM »
I don’t know what the FE explanation is for the earth having a magnetic field in the shape it does.

In what way should it differ?
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline AATW

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Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2023, 08:00:51 PM »
I don’t know what the FE explanation is for the earth having a magnetic field in the shape it does.

In what way should it differ?
I think the mechanism which causes it would have to be different. There's also good evidence that North and South have flipped multiple times over geologic time.
It's possible there are good FE explanations for these things but I couldn't find one in the Wiki
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

SteelyBob

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2023, 09:32:28 AM »
Except a compass points to magnetic north, not true north, which needs to be accounted for. I’d generally agree that could be true whatever the shape of the earth, but I don’t know what the FE explanation is for the earth having a magnetic field in the shape it does.

The other related and very important issue that needs to be considered is magnetic dip, or inclination - the earth’s magnetic field doesn’t just point north/south, but rather points at an angle to the earth’s surface. This dip angle causes all sorts of technical issues for navigation using magnetic compasses, particularly in aviation, but it also gives strong clues as to the shape of the earth.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_dip#/media/File%3AWorld_Magnetic_Inclination_2015.pdf
« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 10:00:49 AM by SteelyBob »

Dual1ty

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2023, 11:44:17 AM »
Except a compass points to magnetic north, not true north, which needs to be accounted for. I’d generally agree that could be true whatever the shape of the earth, but I don’t know what the FE explanation is for the earth having a magnetic field in the shape it does.

The other related and very important issue that needs to be considered is magnetic dip, or inclination - the earth’s magnetic field doesn’t just point north/south, but rather points at an angle to the earth’s surface. This dip angle causes all sorts of technical issues for navigation using magnetic compasses, particularly in aviation, but it also gives strong clues as to the shape of the earth.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_dip#/media/File%3AWorld_Magnetic_Inclination_2015.pdf

No, it gives a clue as to the shape of the magnetic field, not the shape of the Earth.

As always, all the globe-earther has are assumptions that the Earth is a globe. And no tangible measurements of this whatsoever. Just fallacy after fallacy.

SteelyBob

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2023, 12:12:41 PM »

No, it gives a clue as to the shape of the magnetic field, not the shape of the Earth.

As always, all the globe-earther has are assumptions that the Earth is a globe. And no tangible measurements of this whatsoever. Just fallacy after fallacy.

I said clue, not absolute proof. But the inclination angles measured do make sense on a globe, do they not? Draw a cross section of any of the FET models (eg monopole, bipolar etc) and try showing how and why the dip angles are what they are. This is surely what good zetetics might do, right? You can even measure the dip angle yourself at your own location - it’s not hard to do.

Dual1ty

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2023, 12:59:53 PM »
I said clue, not absolute proof. But the inclination angles measured do make sense on a globe, do they not? Draw a cross section of any of the FET models (eg monopole, bipolar etc) and try showing how and why the dip angles are what they are. This is surely what good zetetics might do, right? You can even measure the dip angle yourself at your own location - it’s not hard to do.

I'm not a zetetic, I'm a researcher - and after years researching this topic my conclusion is that no proof exists for the globe.

So that puts you in a bad spot as far as why you are here to defend the imaginary globe that can only be reached at through assumptions, fallacies, misunderstandings, indoctrination, ignorance and lies.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 01:03:23 PM by Dual1ty »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2023, 01:55:06 PM »
This is surely what good zetetics might do, right?
Emphatically: no. Every time you attempt the "if you're a ReAl ZeTeTiC, then surely you'd do exactly what I want you to do" gambit, you simply reveal that you have no idea what Zeteticism is or how to apply it.

Stick to making your own arguments, rather than strawmanning people by trying to force debating terms onto them.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

SteelyBob

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2023, 01:57:41 PM »


I'm not a zetetic, I'm a researcher - and after years researching this topic my conclusion is that no proof exists for the globe.

So that puts you in a bad spot as far as why you are here to defend the imaginary globe that can only be reached at through assumptions, fallacies, misunderstandings, indoctrination, ignorance and lies.

Fine by me. Just challenging you to expose your ideas to something new. Did your research include dip angle? Have you tried drawing a cross section of a flat earth and superimposing the measured dip angles on it?

Dual1ty

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2023, 02:33:00 PM »
It's white board time.

« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 02:44:10 PM by Dual1ty »

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2023, 06:23:36 PM »
It's white board time.
...
Are there other areas of inquiry where you think that the authoritative sources are ONLY publishing on forums such as YouTube and not (at least also) on the usual scientific venues where one has to actually back up claims with data and are peer reviewed etc, or is the shape of the earth the only one?  (just curious). 
~                                                         
« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 06:43:38 PM by ichoosereality »
The contents of the GPS NAV message is the time of transmission and the orbital location of the transmitter at that time. If the transmitters are not where they claim to be GPS would not work.  Since it does work the transmitters must in fact be in orbit, which means the earth is round.

Dual1ty

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2023, 07:13:31 PM »
It's white board time.
...
Are there other areas of inquiry where you think that the authoritative sources are ONLY publishing on forums such as YouTube and not (at least also) on the usual scientific venues where one has to actually back up claims with data and are peer reviewed etc, or is the shape of the earth the only one?  (just curious). 
~                                                       

What is the point of peer-reviewed if in order to be a valid peer and to be published you have to be part of and approved by the system?

Data is just data - it's neither true nor false.

As far as authoritative sources, those require faith. Example: NASA claims to have been to the Moon, Mars and others, seemingly confirming the current heliocentric model. Of course, one should distrust authoritative sources - especially when it comes to information that has potential conflicts of interest attached to it (which is almost always the case with information that comes from authoritative sources).
« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 07:25:19 PM by Dual1ty »

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2023, 08:10:25 PM »
Except a compass points to magnetic north, not true north, which needs to be accounted for. I’d generally agree that could be true whatever the shape of the earth, but I don’t know what the FE explanation is for the earth having a magnetic field in the shape it does.

The other related and very important issue that needs to be considered is magnetic dip, or inclination - the earth’s magnetic field doesn’t just point north/south, but rather points at an angle to the earth’s surface. This dip angle causes all sorts of technical issues for navigation using magnetic compasses, particularly in aviation, but it also gives strong clues as to the shape of the earth.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_dip#/media/File%3AWorld_Magnetic_Inclination_2015.pdf

No, it gives a clue as to the shape of the magnetic field, not the shape of the Earth.

As always, all the globe-earther has are assumptions that the Earth is a globe. And no tangible measurements of this whatsoever. Just fallacy after fallacy.

Can I ask you about the bolded statement? When you say 'measurements', are you including surveys? AFAIK, every inch of the earth has been surveyed such that the size and shape of every land mass is known. Do you agree?

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2023, 09:05:40 PM »
It's white board time.
...
Are there other areas of inquiry where you think that the authoritative sources are ONLY publishing on forums such as YouTube and not (at least also) on the usual scientific venues where one has to actually back up claims with data and are peer reviewed etc, or is the shape of the earth the only one?  (just curious). 
~                                                       

What is the point of peer-reviewed if in order to be a valid peer and to be published you have to be part of and approved by the system?
That "system" is the scientific method, that is a set of practices created so as to allow reproducible trustworthy results, to the extent that such is possible (and the success of the scientific method indicates that extent is pretty large).

Data is just data - it's neither true nor false.
The key for data is whether it is real or made up.

As far as authoritative sources, those require faith. Example: NASA claims to have been to the Moon, Mars and others, seemingly confirming the current heliocentric model. Of course, one should distrust authoritative sources - especially when it comes to information that has potential conflicts of interest attached to it (which is almost always the case with information that comes from authoritative sources).
NASA's claims have a huge amount of data backing them up (its 10s of TB pouring in daily at present if I recall correctly).  If you are going to distrust a source I'd say that renders it non-authoritative to you so for you then there are no authoritative sources?  Then you decide on what to take as true based on what? randomness?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 09:43:38 PM by ichoosereality »
The contents of the GPS NAV message is the time of transmission and the orbital location of the transmitter at that time. If the transmitters are not where they claim to be GPS would not work.  Since it does work the transmitters must in fact be in orbit, which means the earth is round.

SteelyBob

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2023, 09:35:09 PM »
It's white board time.



First of all, thank you for actually stepping up and putting something up for everybody to see - much appreciated. Is that you in the video?

There’s an awful lot going on in the talk, and to be honest it comes across a bit meandering - everything from trees of life, big bang, solars winds, pressure, induction motors…we could talk all day.

Let me just pick out two things.

1. Tropics. It’s not clear what the video is proposing in terms of tropics - the diagram suggests downward dip angles (or at least downward something…what exactly?) at the tropics, but then seems to muddle the tropics with the equator. It’s also not at all clear what is meant by the apparent compass reversal at the tropics - why are the tropics special as far as FE is concerned? They matter in the round earth model because they are aligned with the tilt angle of the planet. But if you don’t believe in the tilt angle, what are the tropics?

2. The video doesn’t make any distinction between the true, geographic poles and the magnetic poles, but they are very different. The magnetic North Pole is currently in northern Canada, and the southern magnetic pole is a long way from the geographic South Pole - it’s not even on mainland Antarctica, but is in the sea due south of Australia at around 63 degrees south. People sail there. There’s even a cruise ship firm offering trips. Compasses don’t really work in the vicinity and, even more oddly, once you’re past it, if you want to keep travelling south, you have to adopt a northerly magnetic heading.