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Offline Fortuna

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Old Politicians
« on: August 03, 2022, 05:20:11 AM »
How do these practically zombified 70-80 year olds conduct political business? It's something I've been wondering for a long time. When my grandmother was 75, she was getting too old to do even basic tasks like cooking meals. Now we have mfs in office in the US that are 80+. How do they even travel the world, talk to high ranking officials in other countries and still do their duties that 40-50 year olds would probably get winded by? Are they just like avatars with aides that do literally everything for them behind the scenes? Maybe we should get some younger peeps in there who are a lot less likely to go into cardiac arrest at any moment.

Offline ohplease

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2022, 06:22:15 AM »
I think they manage it physically as they have other folks to do all of life's chores (cooking, cleaning, driving, errands, etc) for them.  But I completely agree that arranging the system to encourage a continuous flow of new folks to enter would be really good.  We might manage that with term limit rules of various sorts but instead I like the idea of rank choice voting.  That way voters can cast a ballot for someone (like a newcomer) that they really want to get in but that they think is unlikely to win against the old-timers political machine while still having a backup of their preferred oldie .  It has made some progress in the US but I'm not sure if that trend is growing or stalling out.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2022, 05:47:32 PM »
How do these practically zombified 70-80 year olds conduct political business? It's something I've been wondering for a long time. When my grandmother was 75, she was getting too old to do even basic tasks like cooking meals. Now we have mfs in office in the US that are 80+. How do they even travel the world, talk to high ranking officials in other countries and still do their duties that 40-50 year olds would probably get winded by? Are they just like avatars with aides that do literally everything for them behind the scenes? Maybe we should get some younger peeps in there who are a lot less likely to go into cardiac arrest at any moment.

Having world class healthcare and a manicured diet does wonders for them. They also generally lived less labor-intensive lives and stay indoors, so the total toll taken on their bodies is less as well.

As for the politicians themselves, they're all ancient because it's ancient people voting in the primaries that typically get them to that position in the first place. The nature of population growth means there's (almost) always more young people than old, and yet people under 30 are by far the smallest voting bloc. So small it's almost a statistical error in some areas.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2022, 07:12:34 PM »
It is because the pre-1950's generations are still considered by society to be the greatest generations. They are a hard-nosed, no-frills, people with traditional morals who tell it like it is. They won WWII and built the US into a super power and are considered to have established the gold standard in public policy. The era of the early and mid 1900's is also marked by extraordinary revolution from the telephone, automobile, airplane, radio, radar, computer, manufacturing, and medicine, which have only been refined and improved on today without fundamental revolution.

The list of achievements from the recent generations are comparably poor with some achievements in certain areas, but have not provided a comparative revolution to society to dignify the generation on. These later generations have only managed to continue or arguably degrade the status quo.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 07:33:13 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2022, 07:44:18 PM »
It is because the pre-1950's generations are still considered by society to be the greatest generations. They are a hard-nosed, no-frills, people with traditional morals who tell it like it is. They won WWII and built the US into a super power and are considered to have established the gold standard in public policy. The era of the early and mid 1900's is also marked by extraordinary revolution from the telephone, automobile, airplane, radio, radar, computer, manufacturing, and medicine, which have only been refined and improved on today without fundamental revolution.

The list of achievements from the recent generations are comparably poor with some achievements in certain areas, but have not provided a comparative revolution to society to dignify the generation on. These later generations have only managed to continue or arguably degrade the status quo.

So you're a part of the later generations that degrade the status quo?

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2022, 09:42:10 PM »
It is because the pre-1950's generations are still considered by society to be the greatest generations. They are a hard-nosed, no-frills, people with traditional morals who tell it like it is. They won WWII and built the US into a super power and are considered to have established the gold standard in public policy. The era of the early and mid 1900's is also marked by extraordinary revolution from the telephone, automobile, airplane, radio, radar, computer, manufacturing, and medicine, which have only been refined and improved on today without fundamental revolution.

The list of achievements from the recent generations are comparably poor with some achievements in certain areas, but have not provided a comparative revolution to society to dignify the generation on. These later generations have only managed to continue or arguably degrade the status quo.

Living abroad, you see just how fucked up American propoganda is.
Americans love toting that they won WW2.  So much so that thry ignore literally everyone else who fought in it.  Hell, America wouldn't have won without fhe british canadian, french resistance, russian, and many other nations working together and dividing German forces.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline ohplease

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2022, 10:08:59 PM »
...The era of the early and mid 1900's is also marked by extraordinary revolution from the telephone, automobile, airplane, radio, radar, computer, manufacturing, and medicine, which have only been refined and improved on today without fundamental revolution.

The list of achievements from the recent generations are comparably poor with some achievements in certain areas, but have not provided a comparative revolution to society to dignify the generation on. These later generations have only managed to continue or arguably degrade the status quo.
The digital revolution is all since 1950.  The first transistor was in 1947 but the first chip was 1958, Moore coined what we now call, his famous 2nd law in 1965.  The cell phone in your pocket has far more computing power than a room of equipment even from the 70s.  The internet grew out from the ARPAnet in the 70s.  We have the manufacturing revolution from 3D printing.  Automated low cost genetic sequencing is revolutionizing medicine.  Crop yields that remained stable from 1880-1950 have risen consistently since thus letting us (mostly) feed the world.  Of course there is space flight and its resulting vast increase in knowledge of the universe and our own planet as well as numerous commercial applications in farming, communications, mapping, news gathering, etc (but Tom thinks those are all false of course).  Likely more important than anything is the focus on sustainability.   The practice of burning fossil fuels without regard for the consequences to our environment that was so eagerly embraced in the first half of the 1900s which set the precedent for the 2nd half, has lead our civilization to the very brink of destruction.  If we manage to step back from the edge, which is not yet clear, it will be the greatest accomplishment in history. 
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 10:55:29 PM by ohplease »

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Offline markjo

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2022, 12:39:30 AM »
Americans love toting that they won WW2.  So much so that thry ignore literally everyone else who fought in it.  Hell, America wouldn't have won without fhe british canadian, french resistance, russian, and many other nations working together and dividing German forces.
Actually, it's the other way around.  The Brits, Canadians, etc., were losing both world wars until the US came to the rescue.   8)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 12:41:02 AM by markjo »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2022, 04:06:02 AM »
...The era of the early and mid 1900's is also marked by extraordinary revolution from the telephone, automobile, airplane, radio, radar, computer, manufacturing, and medicine, which have only been refined and improved on today without fundamental revolution.

The list of achievements from the recent generations are comparably poor with some achievements in certain areas, but have not provided a comparative revolution to society to dignify the generation on. These later generations have only managed to continue or arguably degrade the status quo.
The digital revolution is all since 1950.  The first transistor was in 1947 but the first chip was 1958, Moore coined what we now call, his famous 2nd law in 1965.  The cell phone in your pocket has far more computing power than a room of equipment even from the 70s.  The internet grew out from the ARPAnet in the 70s.  We have the manufacturing revolution from 3D printing.  Automated low cost genetic sequencing is revolutionizing medicine.  Crop yields that remained stable from 1880-1950 have risen consistently since thus letting us (mostly) feed the world.  Of course there is space flight and its resulting vast increase in knowledge of the universe and our own planet as well as numerous commercial applications in farming, communications, mapping, news gathering, etc (but Tom thinks those are all false of course).  Likely more important than anything is the focus on sustainability.   The practice of burning fossil fuels without regard for the consequences to our environment that was so eagerly embraced in the first half of the 1900s which set the precedent for the 2nd half, has lead our civilization to the very brink of destruction.  If we manage to step back from the edge, which is not yet clear, it will be the greatest accomplishment in history.

None of that later technology is as revolutionary as the technologies from the beginning to mid 1900's. Most of what you cite originate from the time period I cited or even earlier. The 1950's already had radio communication and cell phones were just the natural progression of that technology rather than something truly revolutionary. The 1950's had plastic molding. 1940 Germany even allegedly had rockets capable of getting to space. Sputnik happened in the 1950's. The 1950's had computers. The internet and personal computing are one of the few new things that are revolutionary to society, but the 1950's had the analog equivalent of digital libraries, photoshop, microsoft office, online shops, and bulletin boards.

Genetic engineering is still in progress. The Moon Landing was supposed to be a test case for colonies on other worlds, but never came. The best theory about gravity in science comes from 1905.

Nothing truly and fundamentally revolutionary to human civilization has really occurred over the last 70 years. America has only lost power since it became a super power following WWII. It reached its peak and it was downhill from there. Recent generations are comparative failures compared to the pre-WWII generations.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 05:09:08 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2022, 04:27:37 AM »
Americans love toting that they won WW2.  So much so that thry ignore literally everyone else who fought in it.  Hell, America wouldn't have won without fhe british canadian, french resistance, russian, and many other nations working together and dividing German forces.
Actually, it's the other way around.  The Brits, Canadians, etc., were losing both world wars until the US came to the rescue.   8)

Yes and it took all of them.
The US, were they alone, would have lost.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2022, 04:34:33 AM »
Also Radio: 1890
Telephone: 1876
Automobile: 1886
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2022, 04:36:03 AM »
Also Radio: 1890
Telephone: 1876
Automobile: 1886

The years they revolutionized society were from 1900-1950's. Radio, television, telephone, automobile, airplane, automated manufacturing, home appliances, all came together to fundamentally revolutionize civilization in a very extraordinary way that far overshadows anything that came after. I can hardly say the same about the internet and video games.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 05:18:07 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline xasop

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2022, 05:01:57 AM »
The nature of population growth means there's (almost) always more young people than old
The developed world has had net population decline (if you discount immigration) for about half a century. The global population is growing due to high birth rates in developing countries, but they don't get to vote in the USA.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2022, 05:19:55 AM »
Also Radio: 1890
Telephone: 1876
Automobile: 1886

The years they revolutionized society were from 1900-1950's. Radio, television, telephone, automobile, airplane, automated manufacturing, all came together to fundamentally revolutionize civilization in a very extraordinary way that far overshadows anything that came after. I can hardly say the same about the internet and video games.
The internet revolutionized society.  Radio was limited in range.  The internet is not.
Radio is one way communication: the internet is two way.
The internet has the entirity of human knowledge and wisdom.  Radio does not.

Also, smartphones, having a literal computer in your pocket, is also revolutionary. 

We now know that access to knowledge doesn't make people smarter.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2022, 05:54:42 AM »
Also Radio: 1890
Telephone: 1876
Automobile: 1886

The years they revolutionized society were from 1900-1950's. Radio, television, telephone, automobile, airplane, automated manufacturing, home appliances, all came together to fundamentally revolutionize civilization in a very extraordinary way that far overshadows anything that came after. I can hardly say the same about the internet and video games.

I'm pretty sure we'd all be better off just being farmers, hunters and crafters.

Offline ohplease

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2022, 06:42:08 AM »
...The era of the early and mid 1900's is also marked by extraordinary revolution from the telephone, automobile, airplane, radio, radar, computer, manufacturing, and medicine, which have only been refined and improved on today without fundamental revolution.

The list of achievements from the recent generations are comparably poor with some achievements in certain areas, but have not provided a comparative revolution to society to dignify the generation on. These later generations have only managed to continue or arguably degrade the status quo.
The digital revolution is all since 1950.  The first transistor was in 1947 but the first chip was 1958, Moore coined what we now call, his famous 2nd law in 1965.  The cell phone in your pocket has far more computing power than a room of equipment even from the 70s.  The internet grew out from the ARPAnet in the 70s.  We have the manufacturing revolution from 3D printing.  Automated low cost genetic sequencing is revolutionizing medicine.  Crop yields that remained stable from 1880-1950 have risen consistently since thus letting us (mostly) feed the world.  Of course there is space flight and its resulting vast increase in knowledge of the universe and our own planet as well as numerous commercial applications in farming, communications, mapping, news gathering, etc (but Tom thinks those are all false of course).  Likely more important than anything is the focus on sustainability.   The practice of burning fossil fuels without regard for the consequences to our environment that was so eagerly embraced in the first half of the 1900s which set the precedent for the 2nd half, has lead our civilization to the very brink of destruction.  If we manage to step back from the edge, which is not yet clear, it will be the greatest accomplishment in history.

None of that later technology is as revolutionary as the technologies from the beginning to mid 1900's. Most of what you cite originate from the time period I cited or even earlier.
So when did digital electronics start?
The 1950's already had radio communication and cell phones were just the natural progression of that technology rather than something truly revolutionary.
This just show how little you know.  Celllphones are a fundamental departure from analog radio.
The 1950's had plastic molding.
If that is supposed to relate to 3D printing its nonsense as the entire point of 3D printing (in plastics or metals) is that there is no mold.
1940 Germany even allegedly had rockets capable of getting to space. Sputnik happened in the 1950's.
So does space flight exist or not Tom?
The 1950's had computers. The internet and personal computing are one of the few new things that are revolutionary to society, but the 1950's had the analog equivalent of digital libraries, photoshop, microsoft office, online shops, and bulletin boards.
Are you talking about actual brick and mortar libraries?   Hardly the same thing as a library in your pocket via your cell phone.
Genetic engineering is still in progress.
Of course but NOW not in 1900 and it has already revolutionized virus detection and vaccine construction.
The Moon Landing was supposed to be a test case for colonies on other worlds, but never came. The best theory about gravity in science comes from 1905.
Special Relativity published in 1905 as On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies is not about gravity but about how space and time are merged.  General Relativity IS about gravity and was first published in 1915 (at which point the 1905 paper became commonly known as Special Relativity) and confirmed in several ways since (time dilation via atomic clocks at varying altitudes and gravity probe B).   Plus the significance of space flight is in the huge amount of knowledge we have and continue to gain on the cosmos and our planet, not the moon landing.  But are you now claiming the moon landing was real? Haven't you claimed it was all faked elsewhere on this site?  If the moon landing (and space flight in general) is real then the earth must be round, the two can not be separated.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 03:51:29 PM by ohplease »

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Offline stack

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2022, 07:00:39 AM »
One universal technological revolution should be composed of several sectoral technological revolutions (in science, industry, transport and the like).

We can identify several universal technological revolutions which occurred during the modern era in Western culture:[5]

1. Financial-agricultural revolution (1600–1740)
2. Industrial revolution (1780–1840)
3. Technical revolution or Second Industrial Revolution (1870–1920)
4. Scientific-technical revolution (1940–1970)
5. Information and telecommunications revolution, also known as the Digital Revolution or Third Industrial Revolution (1975–2021)

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2022, 12:40:12 PM »
Points 3 and 4 represent the creation of fundamentally new technologies. The Digital Age in on point 5 represents people doing the same things they were already doing, but on a computer.

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Online Rama Set

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2022, 12:56:33 PM »
Points 3 and 4 represent the creation of fundamentally new technologies. The Digital Age in on point 5 represents people doing the same things they were already doing, but on a computer.

The semi-conductor and the transistor are fundamentally new technologies which spurred the digital revolution.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Old Politicians
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2022, 02:30:18 PM »
Points 3 and 4 represent the creation of fundamentally new technologies. The Digital Age in on point 5 represents people doing the same things they were already doing, but on a computer.

The semi-conductor and the transistor are fundamentally new technologies which spurred the digital revolution.

Yep.
As a computer expert, I certify that "doing it on a computer" was only possible because of the transistor.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.