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Offline PraiseGOD

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What is the Gospel?
« on: July 15, 2022, 11:42:03 AM »
The Gospel is the good news for all…

There is an almighty God who we should fear and give glory to. A God who made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. A God who is perfect, just in all his ways and rich in mercy.

We are all sinners and have fallen short of the Glory of God, and the wages of sin is death. Thus, we are all justly deserving of eternal punishment.
God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son; Jesus Christ, to die for us on the cross to pay the debt for our sins, so that through his Son we may be saved. A ‘spotless lamb’ in which there was no sin, the perfect sacrifice or substitute to take our place. This is the gift of God.

After three days and three nights, Jesus was resurrected and exalted to High Priest, King of Kings, and Lord. God recorded all this in the Holy Bible, which God gave to us through the hands of his various chosen prophets, as both a love poem and an instruction book for life.

God knew you before you were formed in your mother’s womb. It is He that has decided to draw you to him. God is greater than all and no man can pluck you out of Gods hand, only you can willingly walk away.

Jesus Christ promised that all those who believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. To be raised up; the righteous, unto the resurrection of life; and the wicked, unto the resurrection of damnation.

If you have faith in Jesus and his promise, surrender to Him as Lord and Saviour, repent from your sins and keep His commandments you will inherit salvation unto eternal life. Having personally experienced the grace of God in Jesus, a believer trusts God as Creator, Jesus as Saviour, and the Holy Spirit as Helper. Jesus rewires every aspect of our lives so that the life and power of Jesus flows in us. That is what salvation is, and it goes on forever.

We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the present darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. The devil and all his angels, who have been cast out from heaven for disobedience to God, are our greatest threat in this world, even though at times it seems like it is each other. But fear not, for God is with us always, even unto the end. It is his good pleasure, as a little flock, to give us the kingdom.

Those who are poor in spirit shall inherit the kingdom of heaven. Those who mourn shall be comforted. Those who are meek shall inherit the earth. Those who hunger for righteousness shall be filled. Those who are merciful shall obtain mercy. Those who are pure in heart shall see God. Those who are peacemakers shall be called children of God. Those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake shall inherit the kingdom of heaven. Those who have been reviled, persecuted falsely, and spoken of in all manner of evil for the sake of Jesus shall be blessed. So, rejoice, and be exceedingly glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you.

On that faithful day God shall wipe away all tears from our eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things will have passed away. We that overcame shall inherit all things; and God shall dwell with us as Father, and we shall be his people as sons.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2022, 11:45:54 AM »
If you fear your father, he's probably abusive.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline PraiseGOD

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2022, 12:05:52 PM »
If you fear your father, he's probably abusive.

To fear God means to have great reverence for Him. Reverence means respect and honour.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)

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Offline WTF_Seriously

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2022, 01:26:29 PM »
If you fear your father, he's probably abusive.

To fear God means to have great reverence for Him. Reverence means respect and honour.

Why would I respect and honour a being who has the ability to prevent an innocent 10 year old child from being raped but chooses not to?
Flat-Earthers seem to have a very low standard of evidence for what they want to believe but an impossibly high standard of evidence for what they don’t want to believe.

Lee McIntyre, Boston University

Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2022, 01:38:56 PM »
If you fear your father, he's probably abusive.

To fear God means to have great reverence for Him. Reverence means respect and honour.

Why would I respect and honour a being who has the ability to prevent an innocent 10 year old child from being raped but chooses not to?
Something something, free will something.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2022, 01:50:10 PM »
If you fear your father, he's probably abusive.

To fear God means to have great reverence for Him. Reverence means respect and honour.

Of course you fear your God, he's a judgmental, hate-filled, rageaholic swinging the sword to decapitate people he doesn't like.

My God is a god of love and harmony. He looks at your nasty, dark soul with sadness and pity but still harbors hope for your redemption.
The Lungmen were here...


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Offline WTF_Seriously

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2022, 02:01:21 PM »
If you fear your father, he's probably abusive.

To fear God means to have great reverence for Him. Reverence means respect and honour.

Why would I respect and honour a being who has the ability to prevent an innocent 10 year old child from being raped but chooses not to?
Something something, free will something.

Always love that one.  Yep, she chose to be raped of her own free will.
Flat-Earthers seem to have a very low standard of evidence for what they want to believe but an impossibly high standard of evidence for what they don’t want to believe.

Lee McIntyre, Boston University

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2022, 03:36:50 PM »
If you fear your father, he's probably abusive.

To fear God means to have great reverence for Him. Reverence means respect and honour.

O.o
So... Fear is not fear?
I think something got lost in translation.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2022, 03:52:20 PM »
Always love that one.  Yep, she chose to be raped of her own free will.
Dude, you are being deliberately obtuse.

It's not her free will I'm talking about, it's the rapists.
OK so yes, God could have stopped that.
So then God would have to stop everyone from doing anything sinful - you can't draw a line between what we might see as the petty stuff and the really bad stuff. To God it's all bad and we either have free will or we don't.

Can you see how that wouldn't be a particularly fulfilling experience as a human?

I'm not sure if the Bible really says why God gave us free will but my take is that it's the only way He could give us a choice about having a relationship with him. A relationship without choice is meaningless.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline WTF_Seriously

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2022, 04:37:49 PM »
Always love that one.  Yep, she chose to be raped of her own free will.
Dude, you are being deliberately obtuse.

It's not her free will I'm talking about, it's the rapists.
OK so yes, God could have stopped that.
So then God would have to stop everyone from doing anything sinful - you can't draw a line between what we might see as the petty stuff and the really bad stuff. To God it's all bad and we either have free will or we don't.

Can you see how that wouldn't be a particularly fulfilling experience as a human?

I'm not sure if the Bible really says why God gave us free will but my take is that it's the only way He could give us a choice about having a relationship with him. A relationship without choice is meaningless.

Of course the whole free will excuse is talking about the rapist.  The point is, the girl never made a choice.  She didn't choose to be raped.  She executed no free will yet the kind, loving, caring, benevolent God doesn't give a shit about what happens to her.  You can say the same thing about children born with birth defects.  God doesn't give a shit if you are born and have to live your life as a vegetable.  It's all good.  Oh, and if your miserable existence that you made no choice to have and God didn't prevent causes you to question Him and not obediently follow him then fuck you, off to hell you go.


Can you see how that wouldn't be a particularly fulfilling experience as a human?


Yes, life without being able to rape 5 year old girls without being struck down by lightning wouldn't be a particularly fulfilling experience as a human.  ::)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 04:49:30 PM by WTF_Seriously »
Flat-Earthers seem to have a very low standard of evidence for what they want to believe but an impossibly high standard of evidence for what they don’t want to believe.

Lee McIntyre, Boston University

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Offline Rushy

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2022, 06:49:37 PM »
Always love that one.  Yep, she chose to be raped of her own free will.
Dude, you are being deliberately obtuse.

It's not her free will I'm talking about, it's the rapists.
OK so yes, God could have stopped that.
So then God would have to stop everyone from doing anything sinful - you can't draw a line between what we might see as the petty stuff and the really bad stuff. To God it's all bad and we either have free will or we don't.

Can you see how that wouldn't be a particularly fulfilling experience as a human?

I'm not sure if the Bible really says why God gave us free will but my take is that it's the only way He could give us a choice about having a relationship with him. A relationship without choice is meaningless.

Of course the whole free will excuse is talking about the rapist.  The point is, the girl never made a choice.  She didn't choose to be raped.  She executed no free will yet the kind, loving, caring, benevolent God doesn't give a shit about what happens to her.  You can say the same thing about children born with birth defects.  God doesn't give a shit if you are born and have to live your life as a vegetable.  It's all good.  Oh, and if your miserable existence that you made no choice to have and God didn't prevent causes you to question Him and not obediently follow him then fuck you, off to hell you go.


Can you see how that wouldn't be a particularly fulfilling experience as a human?


Yes, life without being able to rape 5 year old girls without being struck down by lightning wouldn't be a particularly fulfilling experience as a human.  ::)

You should follow the logic of this argument to its conclusion: the existence of free will implies the ability to choose (in which one or more of the choices is 'wrong'). Rather than be given the choice, humans should be forced to do the 'right' thing. Then, we must ask, what does it even mean to be human? If humanity is nothing more than a bunch of robots which can't make any of their own choices, should such a humanity even exist?

That is to say, if you're upset at God for allowing free will, then you're really just upset that you exist at all. The logic of "God should stop bad things from happening" always concludes with the eventuality that nothing actually happens. The universe would be dead... filled with robots with no free will.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2022, 07:30:36 PM »
The arguement is that God could have created a universe where people had free will, evil did not exist and everyone felt completely fulfilled.  Instead he chose to create this universe.  Pretty shitty choice by God.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline WTF_Seriously

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2022, 08:00:35 PM »
I'm not against free will.

If I choose to be a crack head and end up homeless living in my own shit because of it then I get what I deserve.  If I choose to screw Rushy's 5 year old daughter and God does nothing, He's an asshole not worthy of any reverence.

I've always thought of it this way.  Not sure if Rushy has children but let's say he has a 5 year old daughter.

Rushy opens his daughters bedroom door and sees her lying on the bed naked, crying.  Next to the bed is some dude with his pants around his ankles in the process of getting a hard on.  What does Rushy do?

God throws his hands up and says, "Meh.  Free will." then turns around a walks out while closing the door behind Him.
Flat-Earthers seem to have a very low standard of evidence for what they want to believe but an impossibly high standard of evidence for what they don’t want to believe.

Lee McIntyre, Boston University

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Offline Rushy

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2022, 08:17:33 PM »
The arguement is that God could have created a universe where people had free will, evil did not exist and everyone felt completely fulfilled.  Instead he chose to create this universe.  Pretty shitty choice by God.

Free will, as a choice between good and evil acts, does not exist if evil itself does not exist.

What does Rushy do?

[sounds of a woodchipper running in the background]

God throws his hands up and says, "Meh.  Free will." then turns around a walks out while closing the door behind Him.

The problem is that God's actions as a total obviously impact the universe differently than a single human's choices in the same situation. For God, we must apply one action to the entire universe simultaneously (that is unless you think God would save someone's daughter in one case and not in another, not entirely impossible depending on the religion). If God stops all evil actions all the time, this, again, means there is no such thing as free will.

To put it another way, imagine I'm now omnipotent. My morality is now total law. I define Good and Evil. I decide that allowing Evil is, itself, Evil and therefore no one is allowed to do Evil anymore. Is this a good universe where you would like to live? A place where some omnipotent Rushy decides what you can and can't do? I don't think you would like that.


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Offline WTF_Seriously

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2022, 08:36:42 PM »
The arguement is that God could have created a universe where people had free will, evil did not exist and everyone felt completely fulfilled.  Instead he chose to create this universe.  Pretty shitty choice by God.

Free will, as a choice between good and evil acts, does not exist if evil itself does not exist.

What does Rushy do?

[sounds of a woodchipper running in the background]

God throws his hands up and says, "Meh.  Free will." then turns around a walks out while closing the door behind Him.

The problem is that God's actions as a total obviously impact the universe differently than a single human's choices in the same situation. For God, we must apply one action to the entire universe simultaneously (that is unless you think God would save someone's daughter in one case and not in another, not entirely impossible depending on the religion). If God stops all evil actions all the time, this, again, means there is no such thing as free will.

To put it another way, imagine I'm now omnipotent. My morality is now total law. I define Good and Evil. I decide that allowing Evil is, itself, Evil and therefore no one is allowed to do Evil anymore. Is this a good universe where you would like to live? A place where some omnipotent Rushy decides what you can and can't do? I don't think you would like that.

It's an interesting philosophical discussion.  I just call bullshit on folks who want to claim that their god is some loving, kind, benevolent being.  Take free will out of the discussion.  You wouldn't want to live in a world where, say, no child is ever born with spina bifida?  My neighbor was born with it and has to spend his entire life in a wheelchair.  Nice guy that God is.
Flat-Earthers seem to have a very low standard of evidence for what they want to believe but an impossibly high standard of evidence for what they don’t want to believe.

Lee McIntyre, Boston University

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2022, 08:40:28 PM »
Rushy is right.  Its the problem with Free Will.

Remember, the entire Old Testimate is full of God's medling to try and fix 'Evil'.  He turned a city to salt and flooded the entire world (except one super good family), killing everyone, including innocent babies and fetuses.  The world was still evil after a short time.
He then sent down Jesus (himself).  THAT didn't work either.

Evil must exist because we have free will.  And God the cop didn't work.  Literal Genocide didn't stop it.  Which means that Free Will inevitably leads to evil existing.
And as Rusy said, God would need to personally intervene in every single act of pain.  But lets say God stops all rapists by making them die if they rape someone.  He then has to define Rape.  Is it rape if they're married?  If she wants to stop half way through?  WE say yes, but if God says yes, then that means he's probably gonna kill alot more people.  People who might not want God to kill them.

If God removes the concept of Rape from existence, how would he do it?  Well, we need to determine why people rape and remove that.  They rape because they're horny (which is what you need to be to want to make babies) or they want to overpower someone, which is part of a larger system of dominance, which helps keep us alive and masters of the world.  "The meek shall inherit the earth" doesn't work if said meek get eaten by wolves.


So yeah... its complicated shit.
I mean, we had enough food, water, shelter, and land for most of human history.  Hell, we STILL could feed everyone.  We just don't want to.



The arguement is that God could have created a universe where people had free will, evil did not exist and everyone felt completely fulfilled.  Instead he chose to create this universe.  Pretty shitty choice by God.

Free will, as a choice between good and evil acts, does not exist if evil itself does not exist.

What does Rushy do?

[sounds of a woodchipper running in the background]

God throws his hands up and says, "Meh.  Free will." then turns around a walks out while closing the door behind Him.

The problem is that God's actions as a total obviously impact the universe differently than a single human's choices in the same situation. For God, we must apply one action to the entire universe simultaneously (that is unless you think God would save someone's daughter in one case and not in another, not entirely impossible depending on the religion). If God stops all evil actions all the time, this, again, means there is no such thing as free will.

To put it another way, imagine I'm now omnipotent. My morality is now total law. I define Good and Evil. I decide that allowing Evil is, itself, Evil and therefore no one is allowed to do Evil anymore. Is this a good universe where you would like to live? A place where some omnipotent Rushy decides what you can and can't do? I don't think you would like that.

It's an interesting philosophical discussion.  I just call bullshit on folks who want to claim that their god is some loving, kind, benevolent being.  Take free will out of the discussion.  You wouldn't want to live in a world where, say, no child is ever born with spina bifida?  My neighbor was born with it and has to spend his entire life in a wheelchair.  Nice guy that God is.
Imagine a world where no one had any illnesses or imperfections and didn't die?
Diseases are population control because we're basically apex preditors.  We spread EVERWHERE and without something to kill us off, our population would be far too great far too fast.  Heck, it is NOW.
Would you wanna live in a 20 billion population world?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline markjo

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2022, 08:51:02 PM »
The Gospel is the good news for all…

Which gospel?  You do realize that there are a lot more gospels than just the 4 that are in the bible, don't you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gospels
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Offline WTF_Seriously

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2022, 09:08:47 PM »
Imagine a world where no one had any illnesses or imperfections and didn't die?
Diseases are population control because we're basically apex preditors.  We spread EVERWHERE and without something to kill us off, our population would be far too great far too fast.  Heck, it is NOW.
Would you wanna live in a 20 billion population world?

That one's pretty easily solved.  There will be emotional ramifications to humans, though.  But hey, God's all knowing and all powerful and such.  He knows the downside of every decision He could make before He makes it and could put other things in place to alleviate any potential issues.  Being this God guy is tough.
Flat-Earthers seem to have a very low standard of evidence for what they want to believe but an impossibly high standard of evidence for what they don’t want to believe.

Lee McIntyre, Boston University

Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2022, 10:18:38 PM »
The point is, the girl never made a choice.  She didn't choose to be raped.  She executed no free will yet the kind, loving, caring, benevolent God doesn't give a shit about what happens to her.
Obviously not true.
God can allow us to have free will and still care deeply about the bad things which happen as a consequence. How could we truly have free will if we don’t have the ability to harm one another? I think pretty much everyone would agree that free will is important for us to have, but here you want to limit it. You have picked a deliberately extreme example but I’m sure there are plenty of other examples of things which the world would be better off without. If God didn’t allow us to do those things then we wouldn’t have free will. You can’t have free will and have limits on that. It’s a contradiction.

Quote
You can say the same thing about children born with birth defects.  God doesn't give a shit if you are born and have to live your life as a vegetable.  It's all good.
Wrong again about how God feels about it. Again, God can permit things and care about them. This sort of thing is harder to understand, admittedly. I don’t think I will fully understand in this life. My personal thoughts though is that when “The Fall” happened, the whole of creation fell. The consequence of that is some of the things you mention. I don’t believe it’s how God wanted things to be.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: What is the Gospel?
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2022, 11:55:20 PM »
The point is, the girl never made a choice.  She didn't choose to be raped.  She executed no free will yet the kind, loving, caring, benevolent God doesn't give a shit about what happens to her.
Obviously not true.
God can allow us to have free will and still care deeply about the bad things which happen as a consequence. How could we truly have free will if we don’t have the ability to harm one another? I think pretty much everyone would agree that free will is important for us to have, but here you want to limit it. You have picked a deliberately extreme example but I’m sure there are plenty of other examples of things which the world would be better off without. If God didn’t allow us to do those things then we wouldn’t have free will. You can’t have free will and have limits on that. It’s a contradiction.

Quote
You can say the same thing about children born with birth defects.  God doesn't give a shit if you are born and have to live your life as a vegetable.  It's all good.
Wrong again about how God feels about it. Again, God can permit things and care about them. This sort of thing is harder to understand, admittedly. I don’t think I will fully understand in this life. My personal thoughts though is that when “The Fall” happened, the whole of creation fell. The consequence of that is some of the things you mention. I don’t believe it’s how God wanted things to be.

It’s nonsense. Assuming omnipotence, there is no need for lessons, wisdom, pain or strife. All of the wisdom that we gain from those things, he could imbue us with. Allowing children to be raped is beyond reprehensible and could only be for his own curiosity or enjoyment. If any human allowed a girl to be raped, had the capability to prevent it, didn’t but felt bad you, would tell them to get fucked and do something next time. You only let your skyfather off the hook because it’s a cultural artifact you were raised with.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.