ISS Photo From The Ground
« on: March 31, 2022, 10:32:11 AM »
This photo has just been released of the ISS, taken from the ground in Germany

https://www.space.com/space-station-spacewalking-astronauts-telescope-photo

The structure of it is very clear and it claims to show one of the astronauts doing a spacewalk. It's admittedly just a dot, but what would you expect from that distance.

It's an interesting avenue of investigation for those of you who think the ISS is fake, there's clearly something up there and with not that expensive equipment you can see the structure of it from the ground. If it's not an orbiting space station then what is it, how did it get up there and what keeps it up there and travelling on the path it does?
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2022, 11:23:52 AM »
This photo has just been released of the ISS, taken from the ground in Germany

https://www.space.com/space-station-spacewalking-astronauts-telescope-photo

The structure of it is very clear and it claims to show one of the astronauts doing a spacewalk. It's admittedly just a dot, but what would you expect from that distance.

It's an interesting avenue of investigation for those of you who think the ISS is fake, there's clearly something up there and with not that expensive equipment you can see the structure of it from the ground. If it's not an orbiting space station then what is it, how did it get up there and what keeps it up there and travelling on the path it does?
LOL!!!

You write it is just a dot.

The first image in the article certainly presents more than a "dot."

The idiot in the article claims it captures a man performing a walk on the outside of the ISS from over 250 miles away.

None of you deserve any attention whatsoever, except to say you are both so wrong (you because you think the first image represents a dot) and the other guy who supposedly took the image, thinking he can spot a guy walking from 250 miles away.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2022, 11:37:59 AM »
LOL!!!  You write it is just a dot.  The first image in the article certainly presents more than a "dot."

No, the astronaut is the dot. We can see the space station clearly.
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Offline Action80

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2022, 11:53:22 AM »
LOL!!!  You write it is just a dot.  The first image in the article certainly presents more than a "dot."

No, the astronaut is the dot. We can see the space station clearly.
Oh, then how do you know it is an astronaut and not just a dot.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Offline Gonzo

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2022, 11:53:35 AM »
No need to call anyone an idiot, the photographer is a well known astrophotographer.

Action80, have you seen the ISS go overhead?

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Offline JSS

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2022, 11:55:38 AM »
LOL!!!

You write it is just a dot.

The first image in the article certainly presents more than a "dot."

The idiot in the article claims it captures a man performing a walk on the outside of the ISS from over 250 miles away.

None of you deserve any attention whatsoever, except to say you are both so wrong (you because you think the first image represents a dot) and the other guy who supposedly took the image, thinking he can spot a guy walking from 250 miles away.

I think you are confused. He was saying the astronaut was a dot, not that the entire picture was a dot. I suppose AllAroundTheWorld could have been more clear in the wording of his follow up sentence to indicate "It" was the astronaut, and not the picture. I hope that clears up your confusion.

I'm curious what you think he took a picture of if not the ISS and a spacewalk?

Do you have any calculations showing that a 11" Celestron telescope with a high resolution sensor is incapable of resolving the objects as claimed? From my own experience with telescopes and astrophotography, that kind of magnification is well within the limits of consumer grade telescope optics.  I've taken my own pictures of the ISS with much cheaper equipment.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2022, 12:01:07 PM »
Oh, then how do you know it is an astronaut and not just a dot.

What else would it be, given that the photo was taken at the time that an astronaut was in the process of a spacewalk?

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2022, 12:29:50 PM »
I think you are confused. He was saying the astronaut was a dot, not that the entire picture was a dot. I suppose AllAroundTheWorld could have been more clear in the wording of his follow up sentence to indicate "It" was the astronaut, and not the picture.
Fair enough, I could have been clearer.

But whether the dot is really an astronaut or not, the structure of the ISS is very clear. Which demonstrates that there's something up there.
So my questions remain. What is the something? How did it get there? What stops it falling and keeps it moving in the path it goes in - a path which means you can look up exactly where and when you'll see the ISS and then observe it for yourself.

I'm sure Action will now be doing his own investigations into this, I look forward to seeing his results. ;)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2022, 12:31:22 PM by AllAroundTheWorld »
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2022, 12:59:36 PM »
No need to call anyone an idiot, the photographer is a well known astrophotographer.

Action80, have you seen the ISS go overhead?
Yep.

It was a dot, traveling rather fast.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

Offline Gonzo

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2022, 01:36:04 PM »
No need to call anyone an idiot, the photographer is a well known astrophotographer.

Action80, have you seen the ISS go overhead?
Yep.

It was a dot, traveling rather fast.

I'd recommend using some decent binoculars or even a telescope, it’s quite easy to make out the shape.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2022, 09:08:41 PM by Gonzo »

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Offline stack

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2022, 08:35:07 PM »
No need to call anyone an idiot, the photographer is a well known astrophotographer.

Action80, have you seen the ISS go overhead?
Yep.

It was a dot, traveling rather fast.

If you had the rig Voltmer had (Celestron 11-inch EdgeHD telescope on a GM2000 HPS mount and an ASI290 planetary camera), the fast-moving dot you saw would look like this:




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Offline Pongo

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2022, 03:26:06 PM »
This photo has just been released of the ISS, taken from the ground in Germany

https://www.space.com/space-station-spacewalking-astronauts-telescope-photo

The structure of it is very clear and it claims to show one of the astronauts doing a spacewalk. It's admittedly just a dot, but what would you expect from that distance.

It's an interesting avenue of investigation for those of you who think the ISS is fake, there's clearly something up there and with not that expensive equipment you can see the structure of it from the ground. If it's not an orbiting space station then what is it, how did it get up there and what keeps it up there and travelling on the path it does?

Yes, there is clearly something up there but there is no reason to think it's a space station and hundreds of reasons to think it's not. A simple application of Occam's Razor cuts this space station nonsense to ribbons. What's more likely? The super powers of the world put down their weapons, all collaborated together to magically launch lego-esque space station parts, assembled them while careening around the earth at a blistering 17,000 miles per hour all in a weightless and airless environment completely hostile to human life. OR, that the space station is just a dirigible spinning around and anchored to the North Pole?

It's honestly silly that we are still talking about this in 2022.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2022, 04:46:25 PM »
... no reason to think it's a space station and hundreds of reasons to think it's not. A simple application of Occam's Razor cuts this space station nonsense to ribbons. What's more likely? The super powers of the world put down their weapons, all collaborated together to magically launch lego-esque space station parts, assembled them while careening around the earth at a blistering 17,000 miles per hour all in a weightless and airless environment completely hostile to human life. OR, that the space station is just a dirigible spinning around and anchored to the North Pole?

If the latter, it would have to maintain the same distance from the North Pole in every sighting. But it does not.
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Offline Pongo

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2022, 05:57:10 PM »
... no reason to think it's a space station and hundreds of reasons to think it's not. A simple application of Occam's Razor cuts this space station nonsense to ribbons. What's more likely? The super powers of the world put down their weapons, all collaborated together to magically launch lego-esque space station parts, assembled them while careening around the earth at a blistering 17,000 miles per hour all in a weightless and airless environment completely hostile to human life. OR, that the space station is just a dirigible spinning around and anchored to the North Pole?

If the latter, it would have to maintain the same distance from the North Pole in every sighting. But it does not.

Why? Could the tether not be slackened and tightened? Surely it is not beyond the grasp of humanity to adjust the length of a tether.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2022, 06:32:03 PM »
Why? Could the tether not be slackened and tightened? Surely it is not beyond the grasp of humanity to adjust the length of a tether.

Why would that be done? To give the impression that is in orbit around a globe, even when it is not?

Occam's Razor goes both ways. Either;

1. everyone involved in the ISS is either deliberately generating a fiction, manufacturing data, photos, videos, managing to make astronauts disappear from their families for months at a time, but set up comms where they 'look' weightless, but are in some form of simulation, or being duped by those who are generating this fiction .... OR

2. it's all real, and the sum total of 60+ years of orbital space flight and experience has gone into it.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2022, 06:36:16 PM by Tumeni »
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Offline stack

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2022, 07:04:37 PM »
The super powers of the world put down their weapons, all collaborated together to magically launch lego-esque space station parts, assembled them while careening around the earth at a blistering 17,000 miles per hour all in a weightless and airless environment completely hostile to human life. OR, that the space station is just a dirigible spinning around and anchored to the North Pole?

From an Occam's perspective, do you really think making a blimp travel at 17,000 MPH attached to a rope at the North Pole is the simpler explanation?

Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2022, 08:58:29 PM »
Yes, there is clearly something up there but there is no reason to think it's a space station
Apart from the endless video from it showing weightlessness, the fact you can clearly make out its structure from the ground with fairly basic optics, the fact that radio HAMs regularly contact the astronauts in it and close to 250 people have now been there including 10 space tourists with no whistle blowers so far.

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and hundreds of reasons to think it's not.
And yet you haven't mentioned one which stands up to any scrutiny at all.

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A simple application of Occam's Razor cuts this space station nonsense to ribbons.
Occam's Razor is, at best, a rule of thumb. There is no objective measure of how "credible" or "likely" something is, so you can use it to make any argument from incredulity you like, which is what you've done.

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What's more likely? The super powers of the world put down their weapons, all collaborated together to magically launch lego-esque space station parts, assembled them while careening around the earth at a blistering 17,000 miles per hour all in a weightless and airless environment completely hostile to human life. OR, that the space station is just a dirigible spinning around and anchored to the North Pole?
So firstly, what weapons? The 5 space agencies involved were:
NASA (United States), Roscosmos (Russia), JAXA (Japan), ESA (Europe), and CSA (Canada).
Most of those are allies. There's obviously been some tension between the US and Russia over the years but no war.
Japan was on the other side in WW2 of course but that was over 50 years before the ISS was started.

Secondly, how are the launches "magic"? Rocket technology has existed for at least 70 years, you can observe launches yourself. The technology required so get things to the "blistering" speeds you mention is not new and can be observed. And while yes, the ISS is moving fast the parts being assembled were all moving at the same speed. It's like snorting derisively at the idea you can pour a drink on an airplane going close to the speed of sound. But of course you can because you, the glass and the can are all going at the same speed so it's no different to doing it on the ground, a slight bit of vibration aside - which wouldn't be an issue in space.
Space walks have been a thing for nearly 60 years so the idea of working in space is not new either.

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It's honestly silly that we are still talking about this in 2022.
Well, agreed there. The idea that the ISS is anchored to the North Pole is obviously ludicrous. How long is this tether supposed to be? What material is it made of which could be strong enough at that length? Why can't it be observed? Surely people close to the Arctic Circle would be able to see it? You have made an argument from incredulity and then presented an alternative idea which is (in my view although it is admittedly subjective) significantly more incredible and provided zero evidence for it.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Pongo

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2022, 04:04:18 PM »
Why? Could the tether not be slackened and tightened? Surely it is not beyond the grasp of humanity to adjust the length of a tether.

Why would that be done? To give the impression that is in orbit around a globe, even when it is not?

Yes.


Occam's Razor goes both ways. Either;

1. everyone involved in the ISS is either deliberately generating a fiction, manufacturing data, photos, videos, managing to make astronauts disappear from their families for months at a time, but set up comms where they 'look' weightless, but are in some form of simulation, or being duped by those who are generating this fiction .... OR

2. it's all real, and the sum total of 60+ years of orbital space flight and experience has gone into it.

Agree to disagree.

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Offline Pongo

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2022, 04:04:57 PM »
The super powers of the world put down their weapons, all collaborated together to magically launch lego-esque space station parts, assembled them while careening around the earth at a blistering 17,000 miles per hour all in a weightless and airless environment completely hostile to human life. OR, that the space station is just a dirigible spinning around and anchored to the North Pole?

From an Occam's perspective, do you really think making a blimp travel at 17,000 MPH attached to a rope at the North Pole is the simpler explanation?

Yes. Easily.

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Offline Pongo

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Re: ISS Photo From The Ground
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2022, 04:15:37 PM »
Quote
and hundreds of reasons to think it's not.
And yet you haven't mentioned one which stands up to any scrutiny at all.
If I declare something silly, for example, "The earth is round" then plug my ears and scream every time someone brings up evidence that contradicts my predetermined world-view, would you think I could say with integrity that there is no evidence that, "stands up to any scrutiny at all"?

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It's honestly silly that we are still talking about this in 2022.
Well, agreed there. The idea that the ISS is anchored to the North Pole is obviously ludicrous. How long is this tether supposed to be? What material is it made of which could be strong enough at that length? Why can't it be observed? Surely people close to the Arctic Circle would be able to see it? You have made an argument from incredulity and then presented an alternative idea which is (in my view although it is admittedly subjective) significantly more incredible and provided zero evidence for it.
I can honestly say that I don't know the answers to your questions. However, that is a good thing because rather than Googling searching something like "What is the ISS wingspan" then running back here and blindly parroting the answer after giving myself a "well-earned" pat-on-the-back for my extensive "research", I can say that I do not know and it's an area for further study.