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Offline Tau

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2014, 01:44:50 PM »
After all, what exactly is a zetetic art?
Art that proceeds by inquiry.  Art that makes you think.  Something like a picture that demonstrates bendy light or perspective that allows the sun to appear to set below a flat earth horizon.  You certainly can't accurately depict a flat earth with traditional art.

Why Markjo, you almost sound sarcastic.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2014, 01:48:29 PM »
Idea: The Flat Earth Academy of Sciences

A Think Tank dedicated to the advancement of earth science and the Zetetic Philosophy. As a sister organization to the Flat Earth Society the academy collects, organizes, and publishes scientific material pertaining to the movement.
How about: The Flat Earth Academy of Zetetic Arts and Sciences
Then again, having "science" in the name might be a bit misleading or confusing because of the philosophical differences between science and zeteticism.

I believe James used to call himself a Zetetic Scientist. If he of all people is okay with it, it's probably alright. "The Flat Earth Academy of Arts and Zetetic Sciences" might decrease confusion in that regard, though. After all, what exactly is a zetetic art?

Getting a little wordy.  "Flat Earth Academy" by itself rolls nicely off the tongue.  We can certainly add a tagline referencing Zetetic thought, and that can be wordier, but the proper name should probably be short-and-sweet.

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Offline Tau

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2014, 01:50:14 PM »
Idea: The Flat Earth Academy of Sciences

A Think Tank dedicated to the advancement of earth science and the Zetetic Philosophy. As a sister organization to the Flat Earth Society the academy collects, organizes, and publishes scientific material pertaining to the movement.
How about: The Flat Earth Academy of Zetetic Arts and Sciences
Then again, having "science" in the name might be a bit misleading or confusing because of the philosophical differences between science and zeteticism.

I believe James used to call himself a Zetetic Scientist. If he of all people is okay with it, it's probably alright. "The Flat Earth Academy of Arts and Zetetic Sciences" might decrease confusion in that regard, though. After all, what exactly is a zetetic art?

Getting a little wordy.  "Flat Earth Academy" by itself rolls nicely off the tongue.  We can certainly add a tagline referencing Zetetic thought, and that can be wordier, but the proper name should probably be short-and-sweet.

I agree. I see little point in adding art. This is not an art school. That said, zeteticism ought to make it into the name. Flat Earth Academy of Zetetic Sciences seems fine to me.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2014, 02:19:00 PM »
Idea: The Flat Earth Academy of Sciences

A Think Tank dedicated to the advancement of earth science and the Zetetic Philosophy. As a sister organization to the Flat Earth Society the academy collects, organizes, and publishes scientific material pertaining to the movement.
How about: The Flat Earth Academy of Zetetic Arts and Sciences
Then again, having "science" in the name might be a bit misleading or confusing because of the philosophical differences between science and zeteticism.

I believe James used to call himself a Zetetic Scientist. If he of all people is okay with it, it's probably alright. "The Flat Earth Academy of Arts and Zetetic Sciences" might decrease confusion in that regard, though. After all, what exactly is a zetetic art?

Getting a little wordy.  "Flat Earth Academy" by itself rolls nicely off the tongue.  We can certainly add a tagline referencing Zetetic thought, and that can be wordier, but the proper name should probably be short-and-sweet.

I agree. I see little point in adding art. This is not an art school. That said, zeteticism ought to make it into the name. Flat Earth Academy of Zetetic Sciences seems fine to me.

Nicely done, I like it.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2014, 02:26:23 PM »
Why Markjo, you almost sound sarcastic.
Almost?

I agree. I see little point in adding art. This is not an art school. That said, zeteticism ought to make it into the name. Flat Earth Academy of Zetetic Sciences seems fine to me.
Well, this really isn't a school of any sort, so the word "academy" doesn't seem to fit.  How about: " The New Zetetic Society of Arts and/or Sciences" as the formal name and "The Zetetic Society" as the casual name.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

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Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Blanko

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2014, 02:48:03 PM »
I wouldn't be opposed to shifting focus to zeteticism in general. All this flat earth stuff scares noobs away.

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2014, 02:50:48 PM »
Why Markjo, you almost sound sarcastic.
Almost?

I agree. I see little point in adding art. This is not an art school. That said, zeteticism ought to make it into the name. Flat Earth Academy of Zetetic Sciences seems fine to me.
Well, this really isn't a school of any sort, so the word "academy" doesn't seem to fit.  How about: " The New Zetetic Society of Arts and/or Sciences" as the formal name and "The Zetetic Society" as the casual name.

The term "Flat Earth" needs to be in there, otherwise people will have no idea what we're about.  Also, "Academy" doesn't specifically mean "school:"

An academy (Attic Greek: Ἀκαδήμεια; Koine Greek Ἀκαδημία) is an institution of higher learning, research, or honorary membership.

I think we fit those last two pretty well.

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2014, 02:51:50 PM »
I wouldn't be opposed to shifting focus to zeteticism in general. All this flat earth stuff scares noobs away.
On the contrary, it's what initially fascinated me and prompted me to start doing my own research.  It's a strong statement, and gets attention.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2014, 06:14:49 PM »
The term "Flat Earth" needs to be in there, otherwise people will have no idea what we're about.
Not necessarily.  The modern FES traces its origins to Rowbotham's 19th century Zetetic Society.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2014, 06:30:13 PM »
The term "Flat Earth" needs to be in there, otherwise people will have no idea what we're about.
Not necessarily.  The modern FES traces its origins to Rowbotham's 19th century Zetetic Society.
I *like* the idea of "The Zetetic Society" or some iteration thereof, personally, and have thought about that possibility too.  However, the fact is that most people not directly affiliated with the society have no idea what the word Zetetic means.  Having the words "Flat Earth" in the name is probably more useful in terms of PR.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2014, 05:58:02 PM »
Given that we're already getting publicity as the FES, and that some money has gone into advertising, I am strongly opposed to the idea of renaming. It'd simply invalidate our past efforts.
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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2014, 06:06:11 PM »
Given that we're already getting publicity as the FES, and that some money has gone into advertising

We are and it has?  I didn't know that.

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2014, 06:34:30 PM »
Given that we're already getting publicity as the FES, and that some money has gone into advertising, I am strongly opposed to the idea of renaming. It'd simply invalidate our past efforts.

This is a good point.  Still, something to differentiate us from the other group may not necessarily negate all that.  Surely a shift to "The Independent Flat Earth Society" wouldn't invalidate everything, as the original name is still in there? 

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Offline junker

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2014, 06:55:13 PM »
Given that we're already getting publicity as the FES, and that some money has gone into advertising

We are and it has?  I didn't know that.

Yes, and yes.  And when I stop slacking and throw some more money at, we will get even more.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2014, 07:33:07 PM »
Still, something to differentiate us from the other group may not necessarily negate all that.
I don't think that "something" has to be the name. We already have our own logo and our social media (well, Facebook at least) are on the rise, while the other site is stagnant. I think our identity is quite secure. A new motto could be an interesting idea. I'm quite attached to the name. It acknowledges our history and ties to past societies (including the other site).
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2014, 05:04:18 AM »
As I see it, the Flat Earth Academy of Sciences would still be part of the Flat Earth Society. It's a sister organization. We will present ourselves to the world as being part of the Flat Earth Society. This is simply our research branch.

The .org site is for the noobs, the academy is where people eventually migrate for higher level discussions and to organize projects.

I do not see any reason to compete with the other site, attempt dissension, or confusion. We are all part of the Flat Earth Society, whether we accept the .org leadership or not. I've been with the FES before Daniel even registered the .org site. I have no problem calling whatever name we choose for this site as being an organ of the Flat Earth Society.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 05:06:19 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2014, 05:06:36 AM »
With all due respect, can the logo really be held up as a distinctive feature? I don't think a casual observer would even notice the difference unless they were to have both forums open at the same time.
I'd think they would, but I have no data to back it up. Personally, I pay lots of attention to logos, but it's very possible that that's just me being weird.

That is why a change like "The Independent Flat Earth Society" would be so ideal. It doesn't take away anything; it only adds a new element particular to this society[...]
I'm a bit worried that this would carry an impression of us being the other FES. It feels extremely similar to, for example, the Oxford Brookes University. Y'know, that second university in Oxford that everyone is talking about... not. They're not even a bad university, but the name acts as a detractor and provides opportunity for mockery.

Also, if individual members are to be financing ads, I think the rest of us should at least be told and provided a means to donate. Surely such things ought to be paid via a fund established by the Council on behalf of the whole society, not by private initiative behind the scenes, no?
When we set this site up, we made it clear we wouldn't monetise it. We still have no intention of doing so. The decisions of individual members to advertise the society are their own. If you want to assist, why not print out some leaflets and drop them around a local library, or something?

Also, we can't wait for the council to make decisions. We're still waiting for that press release (and a blog post announcing the formation of ZC, which we've been promised would be ready days after the elections - at this point it doesn't even make sense to post it, because it's so out of date), and it's being procrastinated due to decisions like the name change, which I personally view as petty and pointless. Instead of discussing which adjective we should squeeze in between which two words of "Flat Earth Society", we should focus on building up this site. We can rename at any point in time. Meanwhile, we have a community to expand, and it should not have to wait.

As I see it, the Flat Earth Academy of Sciences would still be part of the Flat Earth Society. It's a sister organization. We will present ourselves to the world as being part of the Flat Earth Society. This is simply our research branch.
Given that we're nowhere near to reaching our hosting capacity (and likely will never be), we can always set up a sister site, assuming there are people willing to work on it.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 05:12:59 AM by pizaaplanet »
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Offline markjo

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2014, 05:45:36 AM »
As I see it, the Flat Earth Academy of Sciences would still be part of the Flat Earth Society. It's a sister organization. We will present ourselves to the world as being part of the Flat Earth Society.
Wouldn't it be a better idea to have a strong society before worrying about spinning off sister organizations?

Quote
This is simply our research branch.

The .org site is for the noobs, the academy is where people eventually migrate for higher level discussions and to organize projects.
*ahem* No comment.

With all due respect, can the logo really be held up as a distinctive feature? I don't think a casual observer would even notice the difference unless they were to have both forums open at the same time.
I'd think they would, but I have no data to back it up. Personally, I pay lots of attention to logos, but it's very possible that that's just me being weird.
Pizza, this site is essentially a clone of the other site.  The logo here just looks like a refresh of the original logo.  Even most of the tired, old arguments are the same here.  I haven't really looked to closely, but I'm guessing that the wiki hasn't changed much since it was copied from the other site either.  Face it, other than a few subtle (and much appreciated) improvements to the forum software, there is hardly any distinction at all between this site and the other.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#firePete

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2014, 05:52:27 AM »
Pizza, this site is essentially a clone of the other site.
I prefer to think of it as a continuation, but sure. We were never intending to start a new society, just to move to a better forum (only later on we decided to reform the way the society is governed). That's exactly what we did, which is why it looks like that.

The logo here just looks like a refresh of the original logo.
Each to their own. I think it looks very different. The one and only similarity is that they both depict an image of a flat Earth.

Even most of the tired, old arguments are the same here.
Does that surprise you? You're discussing the same topics with the same people. The discussions are quite obviously going to be similar.

I haven't really looked to closely, but I'm guessing that the wiki hasn't changed much since it was copied from the other site either.
There have been some changes, but nothing enormous, no.

Face it, other than a few subtle (and much appreciated) improvements to the forum software, there is hardly any distinction at all between this site and the other.
And I'm very happy to do more. I just don't think a name change is the right step. I do not oppose making changes in general, I just dislike this particular idea for a change.

This is why I was fairly enthusiastic about ZC. I was really hoping to see some media interaction. This is also why this discussion annoys me - the ZC put off doing useful stuff until this is concluded.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 05:54:35 AM by pizaaplanet »
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Offline markjo

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Re: Five Year Plan for the Improved Status of the Flat Earth Society
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2014, 06:08:47 AM »
Don't get me wrong, Pizza.  I do understand most of the whats and whys of this site.  I just think that all concerned need to figure out where they want this site and/or society to go before they worry too much about how to get there. 
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#firePete