Show me your physics
« on: December 22, 2017, 04:24:43 PM »
Disproving the existence of UA is simple. According to FET, the Earth is accelerating at a constant rate of 9.82 m/sec^2. Therefore, to calculate the Earth's current velocity, we need only multiply the given rate of acceleration by the Earth's age in seconds. If we accept the Earth is approximately 4.5 billion years old, and we assume it began accelerating immediately, then the Earth's age in seconds is roughly (4.5*10^9)*365*24*60*60, or 1.419*10^17 seconds old (141,912,000,000,000,000 seconds). Now multiply that by 9.82 for the current velocity in m/sec for 1.39*10^18 m/sec (1,393,575,840,000,000,000 m/sec). The speed of light is approximately 2.998*10^8 m/sec (299,800,000 m/sec). Therefore, according to FET, the Earth is currently moving at a velocity equal to 4,648,351,701 times FASTER than the speed of light. Four MILLION times faster than the speed of light...and accelerating.

If we accept the theory that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, then the speed is less preposterous, but still impossible; it's a mere 6,197 times the speed of light. Physics tells us that it is impossible for anything to exceed the speed of light, because the energy required to accelerate to that velocity would be near infinite. So, anytime a flat-earther tries to tell you their theory is sound, just remember that they believe we're moving at least thousands of times faster than the speed of light AND STILL ACCELERATING.

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Offline juner

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Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2017, 05:07:57 PM »
Disproving the existence of UA is simple. According to FET, the Earth is accelerating at a constant rate of 9.82 m/sec^2. Therefore, to calculate the Earth's current velocity, we need only multiply the given rate of acceleration by the Earth's age in seconds. If we accept the Earth is approximately 4.5 billion years old, and we assume it began accelerating immediately, then the Earth's age in seconds is roughly (4.5*10^9)*365*24*60*60, or 1.419*10^17 seconds old (141,912,000,000,000,000 seconds). Now multiply that by 9.82 for the current velocity in m/sec for 1.39*10^18 m/sec (1,393,575,840,000,000,000 m/sec). The speed of light is approximately 2.998*10^8 m/sec (299,800,000 m/sec). Therefore, according to FET, the Earth is currently moving at a velocity equal to 4,648,351,701 times FASTER than the speed of light. Four MILLION times faster than the speed of light...and accelerating.
You are using classical mechanics when you should be using Special Relativity. You can accelerate forever and you will asymptotically approach the speed of light, but never reach it.


So, anytime a flat-earther tries to tell you their theory is sound, just remember that they believe we're moving at least thousands of times faster than the speed of light AND STILL ACCELERATING.

No, FE/UA proponents do not believe we are "moving" faster than light. It would help if you had a clue what you were talking about before you made a post such as this.

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Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2017, 05:19:35 PM »
I think a better question would be to explain the red shift of stars suggesting they are moving away from us.  Everyone has been to a NASCAR race and heard the eeeee-yoowwwww sound as the cars come towards and away from you.  Maybe the earth is a 100 years old or 10 billion.  I have heard the cars make that noise.

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Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2017, 07:49:29 PM »
UA can be debunked by simply realizing the 9.81 figure changes along earths surface and with altitude.

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Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2017, 08:14:59 PM »
UA can be debunked by simply realizing the 9.81 figure changes along earths surface and with altitude.

Oh wow you must be the first person to have brought that up.

It’s accounted for in FET.

ScienceFirst

Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2017, 11:31:03 PM »
Disproving the existence of UA is simple. According to FET, the Earth is accelerating at a constant rate of 9.82 m/sec^2. Therefore, to calculate the Earth's current velocity, we need only multiply the given rate of acceleration by the Earth's age in seconds. If we accept the Earth is approximately 4.5 billion years old, and we assume it began accelerating immediately, then the Earth's age in seconds is roughly (4.5*10^9)*365*24*60*60, or 1.419*10^17 seconds old (141,912,000,000,000,000 seconds). Now multiply that by 9.82 for the current velocity in m/sec for 1.39*10^18 m/sec (1,393,575,840,000,000,000 m/sec). The speed of light is approximately 2.998*10^8 m/sec (299,800,000 m/sec). Therefore, according to FET, the Earth is currently moving at a velocity equal to 4,648,351,701 times FASTER than the speed of light. Four MILLION times faster than the speed of light...and accelerating.
You are using classical mechanics when you should be using Special Relativity. You can accelerate forever and you will asymptotically approach the speed of light, but never reach it.


So, anytime a flat-earther tries to tell you their theory is sound, just remember that they believe we're moving at least thousands of times faster than the speed of light AND STILL ACCELERATING.

No, FE/UA proponents do not believe we are "moving" faster than light. It would help if you had a clue what you were talking about before you made a post such as this.

Why are you so rude? It's like you only reply to people you wanna diss, not those you want to discuss with!

Offline Scroogie

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Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2017, 03:25:19 AM »
UA can be debunked by simply realizing the 9.81 figure changes along earths surface and with altitude.

It’s accounted for in FET.

I see. I must have missed that lecture. Could you please bring me up to speed here?

Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2017, 09:52:07 PM »
One of the main arguments that flat-earthers use is that NASA claims that we are living on a spinning ball that is rotating at 1000 mph. Even though it is moving this fast, we are unable to feel it. Therefore, the Earth is not spinning. However, we humans are only able to feel motion if we are accelerating. Therefore, if we are going at a constant speed of 1000 mph, then we would not be able to feel a thing. This is analogous to a car ride on a highway. You are going at a constant rate of 30 mph, and it feels as if you are not moving at all. Then, you suddenly accelerate to 70 mph. While you are changing speed, you are pressed against your seat. However, once you are again going at a constant rate, you feel as if everything is normal. This situation cannot be applied to Flat-Earth’s acceleration model. If we were constantly accelerating, then we would be pressed against the Earth due to the change in speed. Think about it. We don’t feel a thing as we are asymptotically approaching the speed if light, but 1000 mph is enough to feel it.

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Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2017, 10:34:05 PM »
One of the main arguments that flat-earthers use is that NASA claims that we are living on a spinning ball that is rotating at 1000 mph. Even though it is moving this fast, we are unable to feel it. Therefore, the Earth is not spinning. However, we humans are only able to feel motion if we are accelerating. Therefore, if we are going at a constant speed of 1000 mph, then we would not be able to feel a thing. This is analogous to a car ride on a highway. You are going at a constant rate of 30 mph, and it feels as if you are not moving at all. Then, you suddenly accelerate to 70 mph. While you are changing speed, you are pressed against your seat. However, once you are again going at a constant rate, you feel as if everything is normal. This situation cannot be applied to Flat-Earth’s acceleration model. If we were constantly accelerating, then we would be pressed against the Earth due to the change in speed. Think about it. We don’t feel a thing as we are asymptotically approaching the speed if light, but 1000 mph is enough to feel it.

Yeah, you’ve got some work to do there. You do feel something accelerating on FE, turns out it’s equivalant to gravity (same for both RE and FE).

Acceleration is the same in both models. You won’t find that strawman you’ve called a “main” argument here, as our users understand round earth mechanics. I suggest you take some time to understand them as well, then maybe try again.

Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2017, 09:22:17 AM »
By my calculations we reached 99.9999999999999% of the speed of light after 17 years of accelerating constantly at 9.81m/s^2.

I can't seem to find any information on the age of the Earth, so I'll assume 4.6bn years.

I can't find any information on the weight or thickness of the earth - it may be infinitely wide, which kind of implies infinite mass. Alternatively as its speed approaches c, so its mass approaches infinity.

Somewhere in the universe is the infinite amount of energy which is needed to shift an infinite mass for 4.6bn (OK, 4.6bn less a few) years, but no-one has mentioned its source as far as I can see.

Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2017, 03:14:21 PM »
By my calculations we reached 99.9999999999999% of the speed of light after 17 years of accelerating constantly at 9.81m/s^2.

I can't seem to find any information on the age of the Earth, so I'll assume 4.6bn years.

I can't find any information on the weight or thickness of the earth - it may be infinitely wide, which kind of implies infinite mass. Alternatively as its speed approaches c, so its mass approaches infinity.

Somewhere in the universe is the infinite amount of energy which is needed to shift an infinite mass for 4.6bn (OK, 4.6bn less a few) years, but no-one has mentioned its source as far as I can see.
The Earth isn't infinitely thick in ANY FE model. Please don't bring a strawman in for no reason. The only one where it's infinitely wide is the one 'infinite plane' hypothesis where they use standard mass attracts mass gravity. The UA model assumes finite dimensions in all directions.

As for the rest I don't presume to understand the parts of GR they're cherry picking. I just know the guys who DO seem to know more tend to agree it's not a place the UA hypothesis can be picked apart.

Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2017, 04:58:11 PM »
By my calculations we reached 99.9999999999999% of the speed of light after 17 years of accelerating constantly at 9.81m/s^2.

I can't seem to find any information on the age of the Earth, so I'll assume 4.6bn years.

I can't find any information on the weight or thickness of the earth - it may be infinitely wide, which kind of implies infinite mass. Alternatively as its speed approaches c, so its mass approaches infinity.

Somewhere in the universe is the infinite amount of energy which is needed to shift an infinite mass for 4.6bn (OK, 4.6bn less a few) years, but no-one has mentioned its source as far as I can see.
The Earth isn't infinitely thick in ANY FE model. Please don't bring a strawman in for no reason. The only one where it's infinitely wide is the one 'infinite plane' hypothesis where they use standard mass attracts mass gravity. The UA model assumes finite dimensions in all directions.

As for the rest I don't presume to understand the parts of GR they're cherry picking. I just know the guys who DO seem to know more tend to agree it's not a place the UA hypothesis can be picked apart.

No straw man here, just another unexplained consequence of FET physics.

I didn't say the Earth was infinitely thick; I said that it may be infinitely wide. But it doesn't matter about the dimensions, as long as it has mass: it's the acceleration which is a problem.

Pre-Einstein, you can work out the speed of an accelerating object by multiplying the acceleration by the time. We know that a=9.81 and t=4.6bn years in seconds, so FE speed=1,400,000,000,000,000,000 m/s.

Einstein says you can't go faster than 300,000,000 m/s. "Piece of cake", says FET. "Relativity says that you can keep accelerating but you'll never go faster than light."

And they're correct. You can't use that equation in Einstein's world (although in everyday terms there's no noticeable difference) so you never reach the speed of light. But why can't we travel at light speed?

As the FE accelerates, its mass increases. Things get heavier as they go faster. If you're nowhere near the speed of light you won't notice, but as you approach the speed of light then mass approaches infinity.

The implication of this is that as the mass increases, the energy needed to accelerate the mass increases correspondingly.  As the mass approaches infinity, the energy required to maintain acceleration also approaches infinity. This is one reason against light speed travel.


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Offline DSC

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Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2017, 01:17:18 PM »
UA can be debunked by simply realizing the 9.81 figure changes along earths surface and with altitude.

Oh wow you must be the first person to have brought that up.

It’s accounted for in FET.


junker, something something about low content posting in the upper fora??

Rules are rules.

and for the OP i have understood we are travelling at the mentioned 9.81m/s, not continually accelerating at this rate.Though I may be wrong. 

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2017, 01:38:15 PM »
and for the OP i have understood we are travelling at the mentioned 9.81m/s, not continually accelerating at this rate.  Though I may be wrong.

Yep, you are wrong; you have misunderstood their model.  The “A” in their term “UA” stands for Acceleration.  In some versions of FE this replaces mass-attracts-mass gravity.  The “U” term is for “Universal”, which means the sun, moon, planets, and stars are accelerating too, which is why we don’t fly past them as we accelerate upwards.
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Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2017, 01:54:04 PM »
Well how are any of us able to withstand such force? All land based life on earth would have had to evolve tremendously powerful trunks and legs to withstand this constant acceleration. Much like trees. And why can i not feel this constant acceleration? Even the slightest change in my car by pushing the cruise control to increase my speed is perceptible.

As much as I try, these theories and assertions are becoming more and more preposterous.

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Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2017, 02:20:23 PM »
You still don’t fully understand it.  This replaces gravity.  It is the same amount of force.  The legs you have are already adequate to withstand 9.8 m/s/s acceleration.  That’s 1g, after all.
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Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2017, 05:36:45 PM »
The implication of this is that as the mass increases, the energy needed to accelerate the mass increases correspondingly.  As the mass approaches infinity, the energy required to maintain acceleration also approaches infinity. This is one reason against light speed travel.

No, this is not how relativity works.

We are accelerating at 9.8 m s-2 in our own frame of reference, in which the Earth is stationary and does not have dilated mass. The energy requirement to accelerate it is therefore proportional to its rest mass.

If you were to observe the Earth from the frame of reference it was in 4 billion years ago, it would be very heavy, but its acceleration would also appear much slower. This is a necessary consequence of the fact that, in relativity, you cannot accelerate past the speed of light. If acceleration were still 9.8 m s-2 in this frame of reference, then we would very quickly pass the speed of light, which is impossible.

Thus, the energy requirement for acceleration remains constant.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2017, 07:21:42 PM »
Well how are any of us able to withstand such force? All land based life on earth would have had to evolve tremendously powerful trunks and legs to withstand this constant acceleration. Much like trees. And why can i not feel this constant acceleration? Even the slightest change in my car by pushing the cruise control to increase my speed is perceptible.

As much as I try, these theories and assertions are becoming more and more preposterous.

All land-based life did evolve to handle 1 g no matter if it's from gravity or acceleration.   You can't feel the acceleration because it's constant.  Only if the acceleration changed rate would you feel it. 
Do you have a citation for this sweeping generalisation?

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Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2017, 11:18:14 PM »
  A few things to wrap my mind around. Been interesting. Still much to learn.

thanks to both sides.

Re: Show me your physics
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2017, 11:50:30 PM »
The implication of this is that as the mass increases, the energy needed to accelerate the mass increases correspondingly.  As the mass approaches infinity, the energy required to maintain acceleration also approaches infinity. This is one reason against light speed travel.
No, this is not how relativity works.

 Yes it is. It’s just that either :

a) you don’t understand it,
b) you’re trying to shill me or
c) relativity works differently on a flat earth (which would require a different universe).

In any event, congratulations for picking up something so complicated using only Zetetics.

 
We are accelerating at 9.8 m s-2 in our own frame of reference, in which the Earth is stationary and does not have dilated mass. The energy requirement to accelerate it is therefore proportional to its rest mass.

 Let’s get this clear – the FE is ALWAYS accelerating at 9.81m/s2 in order to replace gravity, but you cannot accelerate and be stationary in the same “frame of reference”. The energy need to accelerate the FE is always proportional to its total mass. At a standstill it has only rest mass, but as it accelerates it gains inertial mass. Total mass=rest mass+inertial mass.

 
If you were to observe the Earth from the frame of reference it was in 4 billion years ago, it would be very heavy, but its acceleration would also appear much slower.

 That's the wrong way round. Assuming you mean the beginning of the acceleration, the only mass of the Flat Earth would be its rest mass (although it could still be very heavy). Acceleration would be at 9.81 m/s2 in your own time frame, and I agree as I watch you from my frame on Round Earth. However, within a few years I see you still accelerating, but much much less as the Universe stops you reaching the speed of light by adding inertial mass. And slowing down time, etc.

TL;DR you start off light and quick, and get heavier and slower.
 
 
This is a necessary consequence of the fact that, in relativity, you cannot accelerate past the speed of light. If acceleration were still 9.8 m s-2 in this frame of reference, then we would very quickly pass the speed of light, which is impossible.

 No, acceleration in your frame of reference remains at 9.81m/s2, otherwise your “gravity” would alter. However the Universe is ganging up on you by making your mass increase ( thereby needing more energy), time slow down (so instead of 9.81 m per second every second, it’s 9.81 m per 2 seconds, every two seconds – and increasing) and distances foreshorten (ie 9.81m becomes 8m then 7 …)

Rejoice! As distances foreshorten, the Flat Earth gets even flatter - even Round Earth becomes disc-shaped  ;D

You are still accelerating, but “meters”, “kilograms” and “seconds” have changed. In my frame of reference, not yours; you can’t zetetically detect anything unusual because it’s happening to everything in your frame of reference.

Everything looks normal to you, as you whizz through the Universe at 99.99999999999999999999999999% of the speed of light, but I see you as short and squashed - you're only a few inches tall. The second hands on rour clocks are barely crawling around their faces, as far as I'm concerned. If you hold a 12" ruler and point it to the ceiling, to me it seems maybe 2" high. But when you point it to the wall, at 90degrees to your acceleration, i see it magically stretch to its full length.

 

Thus, the energy requirement for acceleration remains constant.

Thus the energy requirement for UA goes off the scale. Einstein tells you why you can't exceed the speed of light, but that doesn't mean you can't keep accelerating. That's what your own wiki says; it just seems to stop short of considering the implications.