[mherrig97]

Any and all science or evidence aside, and there are mountains of evidence that the landing happened. The single greatest proof that the moon landings happened, specifically Apollo 11, lies with the Soviet Union. It's 1969, tensions are high, the US and the Soviet Union are engaged in a stiff Space Race. The Soviets put the first satellite in space, even the first man in space, Yuri Gagarin, my hero. These 2 achievements were huge, the US was losing the race, however, they could still win. How you ask? Put the first man on the moon. The moon was the holy grail, whoever put a man on the moon effectively won the Space Race. Fast forward to July 20th 1969, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin are walking on the moon, Michael Collins is in Lunar orbit manning the Columbia module. The entire world is watching....an unprecedented 600,000,000 people, Soviets included, watched as human beings set foot on the moon, a massive victory for the United States, and a terrible embarrassment for the Soviet Union. Apollo 11 won the US the Space Race, the Soviet Union spent a tremendous amount of money on it's space program, which eventually contributed to the state's collapse in 1992. My biggest problem with the conspiracy theory is that the Soviet Union had satellites in both Earth and Lunar orbits, they could track Apollo 11 from Cape Canaveral all the way to the landing in the Sea of Tranquility. If Apollo 11 took place in a movie studio, the Soviets would know, so why didn't they call bullshit on the US? Exposing the conspiracy would be a devastating (understatement) blow to the US, no man, woman or child would ever trust the US government again, it'd be a colossal defeat, the Soviets would be able to take the Space Race Golden Trophy from Nixon and take it back to the Kremlin, drinking vodka and eating caviar all night long. Why were they silent if it actually were a hoax? Why wouldn't the Soviets say a word? The only reason the Soviet's wouldn't speak up is because there was no reason to, the US put 2 men on the moon that day and they knew it. *mic drop*

[totallackey]

Any and all science or evidence aside, and there are mountains of evidence that the landing happened. The single greatest proof that the moon landings happened, specifically Apollo 11, lies with the Soviet Union. It's 1969, tensions are high, the US and the Soviet Union are engaged in a stiff Space Race. The Soviets put the first satellite in space, even the first man in space, Yuri Gagarin, my hero. These 2 achievements were huge, the US was losing the race, however, they could still win. How you ask? Put the first man on the moon. The moon was the holy grail, whoever put a man on the moon effectively won the Space Race. Fast forward to July 20th 1969, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin are walking on the moon, Michael Collins is in Lunar orbit manning the Columbia module. The entire world is watching....an unprecedented 600,000,000 people, Soviets included, watched as human beings set foot on the moon, a massive victory for the United States, and a terrible embarrassment for the Soviet Union. Apollo 11 won the US the Space Race, the Soviet Union spent a tremendous amount of money on it's space program, which eventually contributed to the state's collapse in 1992. My biggest problem with the conspiracy theory is that the Soviet Union had satellites in both Earth and Lunar orbits, they could track Apollo 11 from Cape Canaveral all the way to the landing in the Sea of Tranquility. If Apollo 11 took place in a movie studio, the Soviets would know, so why didn't they call bullshit on the US? Exposing the conspiracy would be a devastating (understatement) blow to the US, no man, woman or child would ever trust the US government again, it'd be a colossal defeat, the Soviets would be able to take the Space Race Golden Trophy from Nixon and take it back to the Kremlin, drinking vodka and eating caviar all night long. Why were they silent if it actually were a hoax? Why wouldn't the Soviets say a word? The only reason the Soviet's wouldn't speak up is because there was no reason to, the US put 2 men on the moon that day and they knew it. *mic drop*

Another proponent of the "Cold War," narrative, believer in children assuming the position of safety under their desks in case of nuclear attack...LOLOLOLOL!!!

Come on, dude...get REAL!

The Cold War was a big fraud!

Both the US and Russia are totalitarian regimes and all the people in charge care about is maintaining control over the people.

How many people beside yourself do you personally know trust the government when it comes to honest and transparent reporting?

[StinkyOne]

Any and all science or evidence aside, and there are mountains of evidence that the landing happened. The single greatest proof that the moon landings happened, specifically Apollo 11, lies with the Soviet Union. It's 1969, tensions are high, the US and the Soviet Union are engaged in a stiff Space Race. The Soviets put the first satellite in space, even the first man in space, Yuri Gagarin, my hero. These 2 achievements were huge, the US was losing the race, however, they could still win. How you ask? Put the first man on the moon. The moon was the holy grail, whoever put a man on the moon effectively won the Space Race. Fast forward to July 20th 1969, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin are walking on the moon, Michael Collins is in Lunar orbit manning the Columbia module. The entire world is watching....an unprecedented 600,000,000 people, Soviets included, watched as human beings set foot on the moon, a massive victory for the United States, and a terrible embarrassment for the Soviet Union. Apollo 11 won the US the Space Race, the Soviet Union spent a tremendous amount of money on it's space program, which eventually contributed to the state's collapse in 1992. My biggest problem with the conspiracy theory is that the Soviet Union had satellites in both Earth and Lunar orbits, they could track Apollo 11 from Cape Canaveral all the way to the landing in the Sea of Tranquility. If Apollo 11 took place in a movie studio, the Soviets would know, so why didn't they call bullshit on the US? Exposing the conspiracy would be a devastating (understatement) blow to the US, no man, woman or child would ever trust the US government again, it'd be a colossal defeat, the Soviets would be able to take the Space Race Golden Trophy from Nixon and take it back to the Kremlin, drinking vodka and eating caviar all night long. Why were they silent if it actually were a hoax? Why wouldn't the Soviets say a word? The only reason the Soviet's wouldn't speak up is because there was no reason to, the US put 2 men on the moon that day and they knew it. *mic drop*

Another proponent of the "Cold War," narrative, believer in children assuming the position of safety under their desks in case of nuclear attack...LOLOLOLOL!!!

Come on, dude...get REAL!

The Cold War was a big fraud!

Both the US and Russia are totalitarian regimes and all the people in charge care about is maintaining control over the people.

How many people beside yourself do you personally know trust the government when it comes to honest and transparent reporting?

Yeah, it was totally fake.  I'll give the Soviets credit though - they played their part so well that they bankrupted their country, were thrown from power, and lost the control they had over people. I'm guessing you think the holocaust never happened and 9/11 was an inside job, too.

OP - I think you're right on the money. This cold war topic has come up before and it just doesn't hold any water for me. The Russians have no incentive to agree with the west. They take every opportunity to thumb their noses at the US, they wouldn't keep this lie going. If they knew it was flat and we claimed it was a globe, they would come out with proof it was flat and flaunt their scientific achievement.

[nickrulercreator]

Another proponent of the "Cold War," narrative, believer in children assuming the position of safety under their desks in case of nuclear attack...LOLOLOLOL!!!

Come on, dude...get REAL!

The Cold War was a big fraud!

Both the US and Russia are totalitarian regimes and all the people in charge care about is maintaining control over the people.

How many people beside yourself do you personally know trust the government when it comes to honest and transparent reporting?

So you have no actual arguments. Good to know.

OP, good points made. Like StinkyOne said there's no reason for the Soviets to ally with the US, and would immediately expose the US if they could, but they didn't.

[Pete Svarrior]

Certainly, the USSR and the USA would not co-operate during the Cold War, except for all the times they openly did. But, other than that, they had absolutely no reason to co-operate, and it simply beggars belief that someone may suspect unofficial co-operation went further than what was officially and publicly announced.

https://www.nasa.gov/50th/50th_magazine/coldWarCoOp.html

[Spycrab]

Any and all science or evidence aside, and there are mountains of evidence that the landing happened. The single greatest proof that the moon landings happened, specifically Apollo 11, lies with the Soviet Union. It's 1969, tensions are high, the US and the Soviet Union are engaged in a stiff Space Race. The Soviets put the first satellite in space, even the first man in space, Yuri Gagarin, my hero. These 2 achievements were huge, the US was losing the race, however, they could still win. How you ask? Put the first man on the moon. The moon was the holy grail, whoever put a man on the moon effectively won the Space Race. Fast forward to July 20th 1969, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin are walking on the moon, Michael Collins is in Lunar orbit manning the Columbia module. The entire world is watching....an unprecedented 600,000,000 people, Soviets included, watched as human beings set foot on the moon, a massive victory for the United States, and a terrible embarrassment for the Soviet Union. Apollo 11 won the US the Space Race, the Soviet Union spent a tremendous amount of money on it's space program, which eventually contributed to the state's collapse in 1992. My biggest problem with the conspiracy theory is that the Soviet Union had satellites in both Earth and Lunar orbits, they could track Apollo 11 from Cape Canaveral all the way to the landing in the Sea of Tranquility. If Apollo 11 took place in a movie studio, the Soviets would know, so why didn't they call bullshit on the US? Exposing the conspiracy would be a devastating (understatement) blow to the US, no man, woman or child would ever trust the US government again, it'd be a colossal defeat, the Soviets would be able to take the Space Race Golden Trophy from Nixon and take it back to the Kremlin, drinking vodka and eating caviar all night long. Why were they silent if it actually were a hoax? Why wouldn't the Soviets say a word? The only reason the Soviet's wouldn't speak up is because there was no reason to, the US put 2 men on the moon that day and they knew it. *mic drop*

Another proponent of the "Cold War," narrative, believer in children assuming the position of safety under their desks in case of nuclear attack...LOLOLOLOL!!!

Come on, dude...get REAL!

The Cold War was a big fraud!

Both the US and Russia are totalitarian regimes and all the people in charge care about is maintaining control over the people.

How many people beside yourself do you personally know trust the government when it comes to honest and transparent reporting?

Well, not to mention it couldn't have been faked, as there are retro-reflectors on the surface of the moon. How would those get there without humans
shooting a rocket up into space and placing them? Do you think they just grew out of the ground?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment

I think we're done here.

[Curious Squirrel]

Certainly, the USSR and the USA would not co-operate during the Cold War, except for all the times they openly did. But, other than that, they had absolutely no reason to co-operate, and it simply beggars belief that someone may suspect unofficial co-operation went further than what was officially and publicly announced.

https://www.nasa.gov/50th/50th_magazine/coldWarCoOp.html

So, having read that essay (interesting read btw) it only seems to point an even stronger finger to the fact that not only would it be incredibly likely for the USSR to have been able to figure out that NASA faked Apollo 11, but that they would have gleefully come out with such evidence. As a whole the article supports the idea that, despite their forays into working together prior to the Apollo missions, the USSR was never particularly open about the state of their program compared to NASA, and their leadership continued to view it as a real race and competition. It most assuredly simply backs up the idea presented by Mherrig, that the USSR would have pounced on the ability to show the US was lying. So thank you for such a great piece of evidence in that regard.

[AATW]

Well, not to mention it couldn't have been faked, as there are retro-reflectors on the surface of the moon. How would those get there without humans
shooting a rocket up into space and placing them? Do you think they just grew out of the ground?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment

I think we're done here.

This was brought up before and there was some ludicrous suggestion that these could be naturally occurring. How we would discover these and know where to point our lasers at were this the case remains to be explained.

[nickrulercreator]

Certainly, the USSR and the USA would not co-operate during the Cold War, except for all the times they openly did. But, other than that, they had absolutely no reason to co-operate, and it simply beggars belief that someone may suspect unofficial co-operation went further than what was officially and publicly announced.

https://www.nasa.gov/50th/50th_magazine/coldWarCoOp.html

Well the link you provided said that attempts were made to cooperate with the Soviets, but nearly every attempt was shot down or cancelled by one or both sides. It even says "The opportunity for using dramatic space cooperation efforts as a means of reducing the U.S.-Soviet Cold War rivalry had passed."

The US and USSR didn't really cooperate until 1975, with the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project. The only other incident that I can recall is in 1969, when the Soviets provided details of their Luna 15 spacecraft so that it didn't collide with Apollo 11. In the wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_15#Implications it says "The simultaneous missions became one of the first instances of Soviet–American space cooperation:"

[StinkyOne]

Certainly, the USSR and the USA would not co-operate during the Cold War, except for all the times they openly did. But, other than that, they had absolutely no reason to co-operate, and it simply beggars belief that someone may suspect unofficial co-operation went further than what was officially and publicly announced.

https://www.nasa.gov/50th/50th_magazine/coldWarCoOp.html

Scientists did cooperate at times, but tfes' claims are about the militarization of space and there is no evidence that there was military cooperation during the time period in question.

From the Wiki:
The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA's creation from the very start: To put ICBMs and other weapons into space (or at least appear to). The motto "Scientific exploration of new frontiers for all mankind" was nothing more than a front.

If you're trying to fake the concept of space travel to dominate space, why would you cooperate with your enemies?

[totallackey]

Yeah, it was totally fake.  I'll give the Soviets credit though - they played their part so well that they bankrupted their country, were thrown from power, and lost the control they had over people. I'm guessing you think the holocaust never happened and 9/11 was an inside job, too.

OP - I think you're right on the money. This cold war topic has come up before and it just doesn't hold any water for me. The Russians have no incentive to agree with the west. They take every opportunity to thumb their noses at the US, they wouldn't keep this lie going. If they knew it was flat and we claimed it was a globe, they would come out with proof it was flat and flaunt their scientific achievement.

Oh yeah, bankrupted the country...

Currency in use today? The ruble... Source of currency? The government...how? Print more...

Oh yeah, the Communist Regime lost control and power of the people...

Current government now holds "free and open elections." Candidates available for choice? Former members/descendants of former members of the Politburo/KGB/other USSR agencies...

Dude, you really do need to check where your head is at relative to other body parts...

[totallackey]

Oh, the reflectors on the moon...

Been watching a little too much of TBBT...

How are you realistically going to fire a laser at the moon, hit these reflectors and then target receptors back here on Earth?

that is the biggest pile of BS I have ever read offered as "proof."

[AATW]

Oh, the reflectors on the moon...

Been watching a little too much of TBBT...

How are you realistically going to fire a laser at the moon, hit these reflectors and then target receptors back here on Earth?

that is the biggest pile of BS I have ever read offered as "proof."

So your argument is basically “that sounds hard, I don’t understand how that could work, therefore it doesn’t”

That really isn’t an argument.

There’s a load of detail here about how it works

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment

[Frocious]

Oh, the reflectors on the moon...

Been watching a little too much of TBBT...

How are you realistically going to fire a laser at the moon, hit these reflectors and then target receptors back here on Earth?

that is the biggest pile of BS I have ever read offered as "proof."

Perhaps you should ask the folks who did it!

[totallackey]

Oh, the reflectors on the moon...

Been watching a little too much of TBBT...

How are you realistically going to fire a laser at the moon, hit these reflectors and then target receptors back here on Earth?

that is the biggest pile of BS I have ever read offered as "proof."

So your argument is basically “that sounds hard, I don’t understand how that could work, therefore it doesn’t”

No, my argument is the claim is absolutely ludicrous and anyone who believes that claim will buy the Brooklyn Bridge if approached by a salesman.

[nickrulercreator]

No, my argument is the claim is absolutely ludicrous and anyone who believes that claim will buy the Brooklyn Bridge if approached by a salesman.

What is so impossible, or ludicrous, about firing a laser at the moon, and receiving photons back from the reflector?

[J-Man]

It's hilarious that anyone still believes we put men on the moon doggie.

[Curious Squirrel]

It's hilarious that anyone still believes we put men on the moon doggie.

Let's see. First bit, who is this man and why should I trust anything he has to say, especially when he is shown to not understand some of the basics of an environment without atmosphere when discussing moon dust in the cups of the lander. Why would the dust be billowing upwards? There's not air to be poofed about on landing and make dust clouds. Forces work very differently in an airless environment.

Second part, appears to have only been covered by a handful of news agencies, and is one of over 100 rocks that have gone missing in some manner. Hardly all that noteworthy for a rock that changed hands a few times to turn up as a fake at it's final destination.

The next little bit is any of a good handful of things. Without more footage or other showings to discount things like film degradation or lens issues, it's impossible to say just what is actually going on.

Ah yes, the 'black void' vs 'lots of stars' discussion. As though it's not possible for two people to experience the exact same thing and come away with very different ideas of what happened, or that it's easily possible neither are lying, depending upon where they are. On the moon the Earth will dominate much of the sky, saturating things and certainly drawing your eye. In the ISS you're there for a very long time, able to relax and observe things far more often and longer. Is it any wonder the two have very different memories of their time in space in regards to the sky?

Just another clickbait video with little to no actual substance to it.

[StinkyOne]

Source of currency? The government...how? Print more...

Along with not knowing the shape of the Earth, you don't understand monetary systems either. Printing more money - great idea!!

Oh yeah, the Communist Regime lost control and power of the people... Current government now holds "free and open elections." Candidates available for choice? Former members/descendants of former members of the Politburo/KGB/other USSR agencies...

Yes, please ignore the past 20 years and focus solely on Putin's regime. This is very FEH of you - ignore all evidence that doesn't support your hypothesis. Russia was a case study in how bad Capitalism with corruption can be. I've been around long enough to remember the cold war. I know how it played out.

[AATW]

No, my argument is the claim is absolutely ludicrous and anyone who believes that claim will buy the Brooklyn Bridge if approached by a salesman.

But that isn't an argument at all.
Your personal incredulity about something is not a valid argument against it.

As I said elsewhere, I could pour scorn on the idea that an aircraft weighing over 500 tonnes could get off the ground, much less transport people thousands of miles in comfort.
I could declare it ludicrous.
But the plain fact is the A380 is in daily operation. And the laser reflectors are used regularly to measure the moon's distance. Why not do some research (no, not on YouTube) before declaring something ludicrous without any basis.
Yes, it's complicated. Aircraft design is complicated but that doesn't stop the A380 getting off the ground.