Offline Flatout

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2017, 03:39:07 AM »
The gif you supplied is the apparent ecliptic of the sun.  What is the "tilt" of the planetary plane?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2017, 03:45:28 AM »
The gif you supplied is the apparent ecliptic of the sun.  What is the "tilt" of the planetary plane?

The sun and planets are one plane. Please follow along.

Offline Flatout

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2017, 03:55:19 AM »
Tom, I fully understand the change in the solar ecliptic throughout the year.  I'm looking for an explanation of why then planetary ecliptic declines while the solar ecliptic inclines.

If one side of a dish is tilted downwards, the other side of the dish will be tilted upwards. If the sun is low, the planets seen at night will be high.
You just stated that the "dish" was tilted.  What is the dish you are are referring to in the above quote?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2017, 04:37:18 AM »
Tom, I fully understand the change in the solar ecliptic throughout the year.  I'm looking for an explanation of why then planetary ecliptic declines while the solar ecliptic inclines.

If one side of a dish is tilted downwards, the other side of the dish will be tilted upwards. If the sun is low, the planets seen at night will be high.
You just stated that the "dish" was tilted.  What is the dish you are are referring to in the above quote?

The sun and planets are on the same "dish", or "plane," or whatever you choose to call it.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 04:51:01 AM by Tom Bishop »

Offline Flatout

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2017, 04:47:11 AM »
So what angle is the "dish" tilted at compared to the earth?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 04:49:07 AM by Flatout »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2017, 05:06:51 AM »
So what angle is the "dish" tilted at compared to the earth?

The tilt changes throughout the year, and I provided an illustration which shows what angles it tilts between. The apparent angles in the sky it moves between are listed in the left margin:




This "dish" is constantly tilting throughout the year, or rather wobbling, with the sun being a fixed location on that wobbling dish. This means that when the sun is low whatever is on the opposite side of the dish is high, and when the sun is high, whatever is on the opposite night side is low.

Offline model 29

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2017, 05:20:07 AM »
Does anyone have an idea of the difference in height between the sun's high and low periods?

Offline Flatout

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2017, 12:38:45 PM »
Does anyone have an idea of the difference in height between the sun's high and low periods?
47 degrees.

Offline Flatout

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2017, 12:47:20 PM »
So what angle is the "dish" tilted at compared to the earth?

The tilt changes throughout the year, and I provided an illustration which shows what angles it tilts between. The apparent angles in the sky it moves between are listed in the left margin:




This "dish" is constantly tilting throughout the year, or rather wobbling, with the sun being a fixed location on that wobbling dish. This means that when the sun is low whatever is on the opposite side of the dish is high, and when the sun is high, whatever is on the opposite night side is low.
So the sun is changing it's distance from the surface of the earth as moves between the tropic of Capricorn​ and Cancer?  Is the sun at the center of the dish?

Offline model 29

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2017, 02:16:44 AM »
Does anyone have an idea of the difference in height between the sun's high and low periods?
47 degrees.
I guess I should have worded that differently.  I meant the number of miles it varies from the standard "3,000" mile height figure.

Offline Flatout

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2017, 04:47:01 PM »
Tom, is the sun at the center of dish/plane?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2017, 02:44:47 AM »
Tom, is the sun at the center of dish/plane?

No.

Offline Flatout

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2017, 03:08:02 AM »
Tom, is the sun at the center of dish/plane?

No.
What is the distance of the sun from the center?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2017, 03:09:49 AM »
Tom, is the sun at the center of dish/plane?

No.
What is the distance of the sun from the center?

It depends on the time of the year.

Offline Flatout

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2017, 03:24:01 AM »
Tom, is the sun at the center of dish/plane?

No.
What is the distance of the sun from the center?

It depends on the time of the year.
What is its distance right now?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2017, 04:08:52 AM »
Tom, is the sun at the center of dish/plane?

No.
What is the distance of the sun from the center?

It depends on the time of the year.
What is its distance right now?

Figure out the present latitude of the sun and then find the distance between that latitude and the Northern Geographic Pole.

Offline Flatout

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Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2017, 04:11:19 AM »
And what is the present tilt angle of the "dish"?

Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2021, 01:33:42 AM »
Venus can sometimes be seen in the daytime: http://www.space.com/24667-rare-venus-daytime-sky-views.html

Not to mention the fact that Venus can be seen to have phases. How is that possible if it can only be seen when it is opposite the sun from Earth? Or is Venus not a spheroid either?

Also Jupiter and maybe Mars: http://earthsky.org/space/10-surprising-things-to-see-in-the-daytime-sky

This site has a video with observations of Mercury, Mars and even Saturn in the daytime: http://sky.velp.info/daystars.php

Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2021, 01:41:22 AM »
Does anyone have an idea of the difference in height between the sun's high and low periods?
47 degrees.

Where is the vertex of that angle? I mean physically.

Trillion

Re: Planetary Ecliptic
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2021, 09:23:11 AM »
Quote
Those observations are in twilight, and even so, a twilight observation would have a slightly higher (or lower) ecliptic than a midnight observation. The solar plane of the sun and planets is tilted. It is tilted in RET as well, except that it is claimed that the cause is the earth being tilted.
I have observed Venus, Jupiter through my telescopes within an hour of local noon so that can hardly be described as twilight. It's easy to do if you have a permanently set up and aligned mount. I simply tap in Venus or Jupiter into the handset and the mount slews to where they are in the sky.  You then tweak the focus and gain settings to suit.  Broad daylight is actually the best time to observe or image Venus as it hides the glare you get during twilight. If the seeing is good you can then find Venus with the naked eye at any time of day.

By solar plane I take it you mean the ecliptic. Which is of course inclined by 23.5 degrees to the celestial equator. So the ecliptic represents the precise path of the Sun through the sky. It is inclined by 23.5 degrees to the celestial equator because of the tilt of the Earths polar axis.  There is no 'claimed' about it. That is what gives us our seasons and why the Suns declination varies from 23.5N to 23.5S every year.

That is the model which I will take to be true and correct unless you've (FEers) got any better ideas which work just as well?!?

Quote
This "dish" is constantly tilting throughout the year, or rather wobbling, with the sun being a fixed location on that wobbling dish.
Based on FE theories, why is this "dish" tilting or wobbling throughout the year? Obviously if you believe the Earth is flat then you have to ignore the polar axis tilt which RE provides.  So how do you account for this wobble instead?

The planets formed from an accretion disk which formed around the newly formed Sun. This disk formed in a plane which was in line with the solar equator which is why all the planets tend to follow paths through the sky which are very close to the ecliptic. Obviously I wasn't around at the time to witness all that but that's because the human lifetime is rather less than 4.6 billion years!

Again, if FE can provide any better explanations then I am all ears...


« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 11:57:07 AM by Trillion »