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Offline stack

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2021, 08:41:08 PM »
You hating a rapist is not the same as it being relevant to a self-defense argument where the shooter had no idea they shot a rapist.

The fact that he was a rapist (five times, even) constitutes a certain behavior pattern. It makes the idea that Rosenbaum wasn't an aggressive lunatic far tougher to believe and therefore makes self-defense that much more likely.

A person's background sets the tone for their character.

I’m not 100% sure, but I thought I read that the dead guy’s prior convictions could not be introduced in the trial. There was a motion from the defense to do so but I think it was denied. If so, however much of a monster that guy was, his priors would have been irrelevant in this trial.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2021, 08:43:34 PM »
I’m not 100% sure, but I thought I read that the dead guy’s prior convictions could not be introduced in the trial. There was a motion from the defense to do so but I think it was denied.

Precisely because they knew it'd affect the jury's opinion of him. If I were on the jury and I knew he'd killed a child rapist, I'd vote not guilty, whether it were self-defense or not.

If so, however much of a monster that guy was, his priors would have been irrelevant in this trial.

Nice opinion.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2021, 08:45:22 PM by Rushy »

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Online Rama Set

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2021, 09:02:08 PM »
I’m not 100% sure, but I thought I read that the dead guy’s prior convictions could not be introduced in the trial. There was a motion from the defense to do so but I think it was denied.

Precisely because they knew it'd affect the jury's opinion of him. If I were on the jury and I knew he'd killed a child rapist, I'd vote not guilty, whether it were self-defense or not.

Exactly. It unfairly prejudices the jury. His history in this case, has nothing to do with the events under investigation.

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If so, however much of a monster that guy was, his priors would have been irrelevant in this trial.

Nice opinion.

The judge’s opinion, apparently.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline crutonius

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2021, 09:02:52 PM »
I’m not 100% sure, but I thought I read that the dead guy’s prior convictions could not be introduced in the trial. There was a motion from the defense to do so but I think it was denied.

Precisely because they knew it'd affect the jury's opinion of him. If I were on the jury and I knew he'd killed a child rapist, I'd vote not guilty, whether it were self-defense or not.


And here we see the exact reason why a prior conviction would not be allowed to be introduced in a trial.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2021, 09:12:51 PM »
Exactly. It unfairly prejudices the jury. His history in this case, has nothing to do with the events under investigation.

But his history does have everything to do with this case. Are you even reading my posts? The point of the case is to show that he was a violent aggressor and Rittenhouse had to defend himself. That the man has a history of violence is obviously relevant. His violent personality got him killed (deservedly).

And here we see the exact reason why a prior conviction would not be allowed to be introduced in a trial.

It's not a good reason.

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Offline junker

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2021, 09:14:33 PM »
The fact that he was a rapist (five times, even)

He died doing what he loved.

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Offline crutonius

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2021, 09:17:42 PM »
Exactly. It unfairly prejudices the jury. His history in this case, has nothing to do with the events under investigation.

But his history does have everything to do with this case. Are you even reading my posts? The point of the case is to show that he was a violent aggressor and Rittenhouse had to defend himself. That the man has a history of violence is obviously relevant. His violent personality got him killed (deservedly).

And here we see the exact reason why a prior conviction would not be allowed to be introduced in a trial.

It's not a good reason.

Are you saying it's okay for civilians to kill people if they've done sufficiently bad things in their past?

Do you disagree with the idea of the state's monopoly on violence?

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Online Rama Set

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2021, 09:26:23 PM »
Exactly. It unfairly prejudices the jury. His history in this case, has nothing to do with the events under investigation.

But his history does have everything to do with this case. Are you even reading my posts?

Muh muh muh muh

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The point of the case is to show that he was a violent aggressor and Rittenhouse had to defend himself.

Talking about an event in the past doesn’t show that he was a violent aggressor. It shows that he maybe had the capacity to be the aggressor.

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That the man has a history of violence is obviously relevant.

And a Judge disagreed with you. Perhaps you should consider a law degree from somewhere other than… checks notes The Flat Earth Society. 

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His violent personality got him killed (deservedly).

Sure.

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It's not a good reason.

It for sure is. That’s why the judge decided differently than you.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2021, 09:35:57 PM by Rama Set »
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline stack

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2021, 09:31:58 PM »
If so, however much of a monster that guy was, his priors would have been irrelevant in this trial.

Nice opinion.

As Rama mentioned, not my opinion, the judge's:

Kenosha County judge denies prosecutor's request to use evidence of Kyle Rittenhouse's mindset in trial
The judge in the Kyle Rittenhouse case on Friday denied prosecutors' requests to use so-called "other acts" evidence they argue shows the teen's inclination to act like a vigilante, and would reveal his state of mind to jurors.

Kenosha County Circuit Judge Bruce Schroeder also rejected a defense request to introduce evidence that one of Rittenhouse's victims was a convicted pedophile.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2021, 11:24:33 PM »
The opinion of the judge is just that, an opinion, and I'm stating that my opinion is different and that I disagree with the judge. Regardless, with or without the additional character evidence, it's obvious Rosenbaum was the aggressor and got what was coming to him. One more degenerate deleted from society.

Are you saying it's okay for civilians to kill people if they've done sufficiently bad things in their past?

I would agree that's the case but that's not the argument I'm making here. My argument is that a person with a past trend of aggression is more likely to act aggressive again in the future.

Do you disagree with the idea of the state's monopoly on violence?

I don't think the state should exist at all but that's another discussion entirely and doesn't belong here.  ;)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2021, 11:27:05 PM by Rushy »

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #50 on: November 12, 2021, 12:15:12 AM »
The opinion of the judge is just that, an opinion, and I'm stating that my opinion is different and that I disagree with the judge. Regardless, with or without the additional character evidence, it's obvious Rosenbaum was the aggressor and got what was coming to him. One more degenerate deleted from society.

Nice opinion.

Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #51 on: November 12, 2021, 05:28:46 AM »
Regardless, with or without the additional character evidence, it's obvious Rosenbaum was the aggressor and got what was coming to him.

This is what wrong with America today. Do you really believe behaving like a pork chop warrants the death penalty? And that regular citizens can dole it out without any reprisal? Yeah, just flap the judicial system off. Who needs it. Everyone in America has a gun so everyone should be able to enact justice as they see fit ::)

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #52 on: November 12, 2021, 02:28:35 PM »
Do you really believe behaving like a pork chop warrants the death penalty?

Describing a psychopathic rapist chasing after someone with a gun saying "shoot me, nigga!" and then grabbing the muzzle of the gun as "behaving like a pork chop" is a level of spin that should earn you a position at CNN. I'm getting the feeling that you're yet another person who has yet to bother actually watching the damn videos before commenting on them.

And that regular citizens can dole it out without any reprisal? Yeah, just flap the judicial system off. Who needs it. Everyone in America has a gun so everyone should be able to enact justice as they see fit ::)

The judicial system is probably about to find that he didn't do anything wrong, so I don't see the point of this line of discussion. Rosenbaum is a classic case of "fuck around and find out". Don't chase people with guns and try to take their gun away, folks, you will get shot to death and then anyone diligent enough to actually watch a video of the incident will say you deserved it.

You are responsible for your actions. Rosenbaum took responsibility for his actions to the tune of 4 rounds of 5.56. I'm just laughing at the karmic justice of a rapist chasing a kid around only to get his pelvis shattered shortly before death.

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2021, 03:02:20 PM »
You are responsible for your actions. Rosenbaum took responsibility for his actions to the tune of 4 rounds of 5.56. I'm just laughing at the karmic justice of a rapist chasing a kid around only to get his pelvis shattered shortly before death.

Just to summarize, your opinion is that:

- The judge was wrong to disallow Rosenbaums priors
- Rosenbaum deserved to be killed

Further speculating that maybe your opinion is as well that:

- The skateboard wielding guy deserved to be killed
- The gun-wielding guy who got shot in the arm should have been killed

Seems like almost everyone got what they wanted and/or deserved. If so, fair enough, strong opinions you have.

My thing is with the cops. Pure speculation and opinion here - But I wonder what the cops who rolled up on Rittenhouse and co and offered them water and thanked them for their service would have done if instead of the white militia group there, it was a black militia group there. A bunch of black dudes, breaking curfew, in tactical gear with AR-15's strapped to their chests. I wonder if they would have been given water and thanked for their service?

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #54 on: November 12, 2021, 03:07:15 PM »
Just to summarize, your opinion is that:

- The judge was wrong to disallow Rosenbaums priors
- Rosenbaum deserved to be killed

Yes.

Further speculating that maybe your opinion is as well that:

- The skateboard wielding guy deserved to be killed
- The gun-wielding guy who got shot in the arm should have been killed

Seems like almost everyone got what they wanted and/or deserved. If so, fair enough, strong opinions you have.

Yes. If anything, gun-wielding man got off the easiest. He faked a surrender to lull Rittenhouse into a false sense of security and then tried to shoot him anyway. Getting away with only part of his arm blown off was too easy in my hot opinion. Gaige had a hero complex and it should have cost him his life.

My thing is with the cops. Pure speculation and opinion here - But I wonder what the cops who rolled up on Rittenhouse and co and offered them water and thanked them for their service would have done if instead of the white militia group there, it was a black militia group there. A bunch of black dudes, breaking curfew, in tactical gear with AR-15's strapped to their chests. I wonder if they would have been given water and thanked for their service?

I wonder if Rosenbaum would have chased a black man around and said "shoot me, nigga!". We'll never know.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 03:09:23 PM by Rushy »

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #55 on: November 12, 2021, 03:16:06 PM »
I wonder if Rosenbaum would have chased a black man around and said "shoot me, nigga!". We'll never know.

Bipolar, off his meds, just got out of the hospital that day for suicidal tendencies, past horrific behavior. Yes, I believe he would have.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2021, 07:52:01 PM »
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/gov-evers-deploys-national-guard-to-kenosha-ahead-of-kyle-rittenhouse-trial-decision/2683456/

Ah yes, the classic "prepare for the riots due to declaring the wrong verdict in court".

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2021, 09:50:42 AM »
Guys.
Its a clear cut case of self defense.
The question courts need to answer is if self defense has limits.

Ex: if I goad someome into trying to kill me, do I have a right of self defense?  If no, where is that line? 

Like if I tell someone I'm gonna go pull out my gun and kill everyone in a room and you try to stop me with deadly force, can I legally defend myself and call it self defense?
If I walk into a gang hangout and tell them I'm gonna fuck them up, can I claim self defense if I kill some of them? (Assuming I survive obviously)
If I wave my gun around outside walmart(in an open carry state) can I claim self defense if someone thinks I'm a threat and tries to stop me?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline Action80

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2021, 07:04:31 PM »
I have no idea what you mean by this. Underage with rifle = misdemeanor, period.

What’s your problem? If he gets convicted of the count of underage with a rifle, so what? It’s a parking ticket. The judge refuses to throw it out. I’m not sure why you’re hung up on this charge when it means nothing in comparison to his other charges.
Possession charges DISMISSED,  clearly demonstrating your hot takes and pontificating about this issue was from a position of intellectual bankruptcy.


Offline Action80

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Re: Prosecution star witness confirms Rittenhouse self-defense
« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2021, 07:09:33 PM »
Guys.
Its a clear cut case of self defense.
The question courts need to answer is if self defense has limits.

Ex: if I goad someome into trying to kill me, do I have a right of self defense?  If no, where is that line? 

Like if I tell someone I'm gonna go pull out my gun and kill everyone in a room and you try to stop me with deadly force, can I legally defend myself and call it self defense?
If I walk into a gang hangout and tell them I'm gonna fuck them up, can I claim self defense if I kill some of them? (Assuming I survive obviously)
If I wave my gun around outside walmart(in an open carry state) can I claim self defense if someone thinks I'm a threat and tries to stop me?
Wtf are you going on about?

You think none of these issues have been codified already?

Just aimless, pointless ramblings, having nothing to do with the current situation.