The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Community => Topic started by: Cypher9 on June 30, 2021, 06:30:48 PM

Title: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Cypher9 on June 30, 2021, 06:30:48 PM
It may not prove it categorically but it would suggest that it's likely. Wouldn't it? Why wouldn't we live on a ball like the planets seen through telescopes?
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: MetaTron on June 30, 2021, 08:32:50 PM
I still maintain that the earth is flat and looks like other galaxies.   Galaxies look flat, so I can sort of use the same logic as Planeteers.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Cypher9 on June 30, 2021, 09:25:15 PM
I still maintain that the earth is flat and looks like other galaxies.   Galaxies look flat, so I can sort of use the same logic as Planeteers.

It sounds like you believe our earth is in motion or have I got that wrong?
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: scomato on June 30, 2021, 10:56:57 PM
I still maintain that the earth is flat and looks like other galaxies.   Galaxies look flat, so I can sort of use the same logic as Planeteers.

The earth looks like galaxies? It might help you to know what galaxies actually look like - here's an ultra high resolution photo of Andromeda our nearest neighbor.

https://esahubble.org/images/heic1502a/zoomable/

Last time I checked the Earth wasn't made up of millions of stars and it definitely isn't 220,000 light-years wide.

What's more, not all galaxies are as neat and uniform-looking as others. Some are visibly in the middle of colliding with one another.

(https://i.imgur.com/bZxzjE9.png)
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: MetaTron on June 30, 2021, 11:12:04 PM

[/quote]

It sounds like you believe our earth is in motion or have I got that wrong?
[/quote]

Yes, I believe it spins just like our Galactic neighbors do. 
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: MetaTron on June 30, 2021, 11:19:31 PM
I still maintain that the earth is flat and looks like other galaxies.   Galaxies look flat, so I can sort of use the same logic as Planeteers.

The earth looks like galaxies? It might help you to know what galaxies actually look like - here's an ultra high resolution photo of Andromeda our nearest neighbor.

Thats a great photo.  but we haven't any photos on whats beyond the "event horizon".  To me it looks like a Flat Planet, with a central Sun, and smaller illuminating bodies or planets rotating around it

https://esahubble.org/images/heic1502a/zoomable/

Last time I checked the Earth wasn't made up of millions of stars and it definitely isn't 220,000 light-years wide.

The earth has many stars in the sky, whats at a galaxies center is less understood.
 And yes, assuming its 220,000 wide changes things a bit.  But if it was 22,000miles wide then can you see my point?  Just how sure are we of a galaxies size when looking up at the sky?
 this is the Flat Earth Society we're chatting in

What's more, not all galaxies are as neat and uniform-looking as others. Some are visibly in the middle of colliding with one another.

Not every planet is alike, same with galaxies.   As an aside, colliding galaxies are pretty amazing.  But having two Habitats slowly join doesn't sound impossible to me.
(https://i.imgur.com/bZxzjE9.png)
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 01, 2021, 12:44:58 AM
The galaxies are cartoons - https://wiki.tfes.org/Problems_of_the_Galaxies
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Kokorikos on July 01, 2021, 08:25:00 AM
The galaxies are cartoons - https://wiki.tfes.org/Problems_of_the_Galaxies

My understanding is that the wiki article lists some of the problems of the galaxies in order to challenge the predictive power of the Newtonian and Einsteinian theories.
It offers nothing on what galaxies actually are.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on July 01, 2021, 09:06:30 AM
It may not prove it categorically but it would suggest that it's likely. Wouldn't it? Why wouldn't we live on a ball like the planets seen through telescopes?
There are 5 pieces of furniture in my dining room. 4 of them are chairs. Therefore, the 5th piece must also be a chair. I mean, this may not be a categorical proof, but why would an undefined object be different from the 4 I've already defined?
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Cypher9 on July 01, 2021, 11:58:13 AM
It may not prove it categorically but it would suggest that it's likely. Wouldn't it? Why wouldn't we live on a ball like the planets seen through telescopes?
There are 5 pieces of furniture in my dining room. 4 of them are chairs. Therefore, the 5th piece must also be a chair. I mean, this may not be a categorical proof, but why would an undefined object be different from the 4 I've already defined?

Assumptions have known to be wrong though.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Clyde Frog on July 01, 2021, 12:51:26 PM
It may not prove it categorically but it would suggest that it's likely. Wouldn't it? Why wouldn't we live on a ball like the planets seen through telescopes?
There are 5 pieces of furniture in my dining room. 4 of them are chairs. Therefore, the 5th piece must also be a chair. I mean, this may not be a categorical proof, but why would an undefined object be different from the 4 I've already defined?

Assumptions have known to be wrong though.
Sure, it may not prove it categorically but it would suggest that it's likely. Wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: SteveRossi1216 on July 01, 2021, 01:30:42 PM
The Globalists have messed with our heads since the beginning of our time.
It is difficult to discern real from unreal. However, it sure seems like the canopy above the firmament
displaying stars is just that, a display. The concept of space was created for us. Roswell and aliens were created for us.
The other planets are just part of the display interlaced within a less complex rotation.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 01, 2021, 04:18:36 PM
The galaxies are cartoons - https://wiki.tfes.org/Problems_of_the_Galaxies

My understanding is that the wiki article lists some of the problems of the galaxies in order to challenge the predictive power of the Newtonian and Einsteinian theories.
It offers nothing on what galaxies actually are.

It shows that the galaxies are not as envisioned. They don't behave as they should in many different ways. Compared to the conventional belief of Galaxies, they are cartoons. This is not generally publicized, the problems are often ignored or only murmured about, and it takes a lot of research to just dig it out.

Come back in a few years and you will find similar articles on the Sun and Planets too. It is being put together piece by piece. The entire sky is a fantasy cartoon.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Cypher9 on July 01, 2021, 10:39:44 PM
It may not prove it categorically but it would suggest that it's likely. Wouldn't it? Why wouldn't we live on a ball like the planets seen through telescopes?
There are 5 pieces of furniture in my dining room. 4 of them are chairs. Therefore, the 5th piece must also be a chair. I mean, this may not be a categorical proof, but why would an undefined object be different from the 4 I've already defined?

Assumptions have known to be wrong though.
Sure, it may not prove it categorically but it would suggest that it's likely. Wouldn't it?

It would but we're going for certainty - is the earth a ball or not. 'Likely' doesn't really cut it.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Clyde Frog on July 01, 2021, 11:11:59 PM
It may not prove it categorically but it would suggest that it's likely. Wouldn't it? Why wouldn't we live on a ball like the planets seen through telescopes?
There are 5 pieces of furniture in my dining room. 4 of them are chairs. Therefore, the 5th piece must also be a chair. I mean, this may not be a categorical proof, but why would an undefined object be different from the 4 I've already defined?

Assumptions have known to be wrong though.
Sure, it may not prove it categorically but it would suggest that it's likely. Wouldn't it?

It would but we're going for certainty - is the earth a ball or not. 'Likely' doesn't really cut it.
I literally used your words in my response. I'm not sure how the irony in your reply got lost. OK let's back up then. Your thread title: "Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?" And the answer: No. Not it does not prove any such thing, not by a long shot, and I'm not sure you are using the word "prove" correctly if you even suspect otherwise.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Kokorikos on July 02, 2021, 04:58:28 AM
It shows that the galaxies are not as envisioned. They don't behave as they should in many different ways. Compared to the conventional belief of Galaxies, they are cartoons. This is not generally publicized, the problems are often ignored or only murmured about, and it takes a lot of research to just dig it out.

Come back in a few years and you will find similar articles on the Sun and Planets too. It is being put together piece by piece. The entire sky is a fantasy cartoon.

It also shows that when scientists find new evidence that debunk their theories they try to find new theories that match to the new evidence. Also, the issues described in the wiki article were put forward by the scientists themselves so I do not see how one can say that they are not "generally publicized".

Saying that the sky is a fantasy cartoon is so extraordinary as a claim that very strong evidence is needed to support it.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Cypher9 on July 02, 2021, 05:39:07 PM

I literally used your words in my response. I'm not sure how the irony in your reply got lost. OK let's back up then. Your thread title: "Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?" And the answer: No. Not it does not prove any such thing, not by a long shot, and I'm not sure you are using the word "prove" correctly if you even suspect otherwise.

Thanks for your input. Do you know of any photos taken using a telescope that shows the features of a planet? Are they even available?
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Clyde Frog on July 02, 2021, 06:32:33 PM

I literally used your words in my response. I'm not sure how the irony in your reply got lost. OK let's back up then. Your thread title: "Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?" And the answer: No. Not it does not prove any such thing, not by a long shot, and I'm not sure you are using the word "prove" correctly if you even suspect otherwise.

Thanks for your input. Do you know of any photos taken using a telescope that shows the features of a planet? Are they even available?
I'm really not sure what this has to do with anything, but you can find all sorts of pictures taken using a telescope - just open a new tab and head over to Google. Again though, images of things that are not Earth are not going to help prove what shape the actual Earth is.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Cypher9 on July 03, 2021, 04:54:26 PM

I'm really not sure what this has to do with anything, but you can find all sorts of pictures taken using a telescope - just open a new tab and head over to Google. Again though, images of things that are not Earth are not going to help prove what shape the actual Earth is.

Yes, but do you know of any that are genuine photos as opposed to paintings? When I was looking for them I couldn't tell what was and what wasn't a painting.

Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: scomato on July 03, 2021, 06:59:08 PM
The funny thing is, we have telescopes and cameras pointed at Earth! Many dozens of them. Some do sweeping orbital scans of the planet, some are far enough away and in geostationary orbit that it can snap the whole planet in single frame. Himawari 9 provides such photos over the earth over Australia and Japan. From over 22,000 miles away it produces an incredible full disc image of the Earth every 10 minutes. The best part of seeing the earth from a geostationary position over an entire 24 period is that you can see the reflection of the sun on the ocean, it's spectacular. Really hammers home the sense that we're all just out here riding a wet blue bowling ball through space.


https://giant.gfycat.com/TimelyHorribleCottonmouth.mp4



https://www.data.jma.go.jp/mscweb/data/himawari/sat_img.php?area=fd_
(https://i.imgur.com/X8gnSpJ.png)

For supporting evidence that the images are not fake, here is the same photo taken at the same time from an older satellite. If these were fake it would mean that the Japanese space agency is actively faking images in real-time, with perfect knowledge of cloud patterns, at dozens of frequencies, to produce a perfect simulation of what the world currently looks like from above Australia! That would be an incredible feat of technology. Not only that, but all of the data from all of these must be faked in real-time too (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Earth_observation_satellites)

Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Cypher9 on July 03, 2021, 09:10:51 PM
Perhaps they just used the same model. The thing is we should be able to see stars behind the earth and we don't which makes no sense - you should be able to at least see something. They say you can't see stars in space but NASA contradicts itself on that score. The Apollo team says you can't whilst the ISS team says you can - are they both correct? I don't see how.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: stack on July 03, 2021, 09:34:52 PM
Perhaps they just used the same model. The thing is we should be able to see stars behind the earth and we don't which makes no sense - you should be able to at least see something. They say you can't see stars in space but NASA contradicts itself on that score. The Apollo team says you can't whilst the ISS team says you can - are they both correct? I don't see how.

Can Astronauts See Stars From the Space Station?
https://www.universetoday.com/136802/can-astronauts-see-stars-space-station/

I’ve often been asked the question, “Can the astronauts on the Space Station see the stars?” Astronaut Jack Fischer provides an unequivocal answer of “yes!” with a recent post on Twitter of a timelapse he took from the ISS...

But, you might be saying, “how can this be? I thought the astronauts on the Moon couldn’t see any stars, so how can anyone see stars in space?”

It is a common misconception that the Apollo astronauts didn’t see any stars. While stars don’t show up in the pictures from the Apollo missions, that’s because the camera exposures were set to allow for good images of the bright sunlit lunar surface, which included astronauts in bright white space suits and shiny spacecraft. Apollo astronauts reported they could see the brighter stars if they stood in the shadow of the Lunar Module, and also they saw stars while orbiting the far side of the Moon. Al Worden from Apollo 15 has said the sky was “awash with stars” in the view from the far side of the Moon that was not in daylight.
Just like stargazers on Earth need dark skies to see stars, so too when you’re in space.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on July 03, 2021, 09:37:29 PM
Perhaps they just used the same model. The thing is we should be able to see stars behind the earth and we don't which makes no sense - you should be able to at least see something. They say you can't see stars in space but NASA contradicts itself on that score. The Apollo team says you can't whilst the ISS team says you can - are they both correct? I don't see how.

When you say "behind" do you mean in photos like the blue marble?
You understand that the earth is a LOT brighter than the stars? If you're taking a photo then the exposure settings of a camera can't be adjusted for the earth's brightness and the stars at the same time. It's the same reason you can't see the stars in photos taken on the moon.
The ISS and the Apollo astronauts aren't the same. The Apollo astronauts were on the moon in the lunar day, which is a bit like being on the Earth in the day time - you can't see the stars because it's too bright. There is a difference - the earth has an atmosphere and the moon does not, but with the brightness of the moon's surface it would still be difficult to see them. But they could see some stars if they stood in the shadow of the lunar module and they could certainly see them while orbiting the moon and on the journey from/to it:

https://www.universetoday.com/136802/can-astronauts-see-stars-space-station/

The same would apply on the ISS when they're on the night side of the earth.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Cypher9 on July 03, 2021, 10:46:01 PM

When you say "behind" do you mean in photos like the blue marble?
You understand that the earth is a LOT brighter than the stars? If you're taking a photo then the exposure settings of a camera can't be adjusted for the earth's brightness and the stars at the same time. It's the same reason you can't see the stars in photos taken on the moon.
The ISS and the Apollo astronauts aren't the same. The Apollo astronauts were on the moon in the lunar day, which is a bit like being on the Earth in the day time - you can't see the stars because it's too bright. There is a difference - the earth has an atmosphere and the moon does not, but with the brightness of the moon's surface it would still be difficult to see them. But they could see some stars if they stood in the shadow of the lunar module and they could certainly see them while orbiting the moon and on the journey from/to it:

https://www.universetoday.com/136802/can-astronauts-see-stars-space-station/

The same would apply on the ISS when they're on the night side of the earth.

Exposure isn't much of a excuse in this day and age. Why not use two cameras with separate exposure settings? Apparently the real reason is stars can't be seen at all out in space.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Cypher9 on July 03, 2021, 10:48:21 PM

But, you might be saying, “how can this be? I thought the astronauts on the Moon couldn’t see any stars, so how can anyone see stars in space?”

It is a common misconception that the Apollo astronauts didn’t see any stars. While stars don’t show up in the pictures from the Apollo missions, that’s because the camera exposures were set to allow for good images of the bright sunlit lunar surface, which included astronauts in bright white space suits and shiny spacecraft. Apollo astronauts reported they could see the brighter stars if they stood in the shadow of the Lunar Module, and also they saw stars while orbiting the far side of the Moon. Al Worden from Apollo 15 has said the sky was “awash with stars” in the view from the far side of the Moon that was not in daylight.
Just like stargazers on Earth need dark skies to see stars, so too when you’re in space.[/i]

Michael Collins said he couldn't see any stars at all and he was supposedly orbiting the moon.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: stack on July 03, 2021, 11:58:05 PM

But, you might be saying, “how can this be? I thought the astronauts on the Moon couldn’t see any stars, so how can anyone see stars in space?”

It is a common misconception that the Apollo astronauts didn’t see any stars. While stars don’t show up in the pictures from the Apollo missions, that’s because the camera exposures were set to allow for good images of the bright sunlit lunar surface, which included astronauts in bright white space suits and shiny spacecraft. Apollo astronauts reported they could see the brighter stars if they stood in the shadow of the Lunar Module, and also they saw stars while orbiting the far side of the Moon. Al Worden from Apollo 15 has said the sky was “awash with stars” in the view from the far side of the Moon that was not in daylight.
Just like stargazers on Earth need dark skies to see stars, so too when you’re in space.[/i]

Michael Collins said he couldn't see any stars at all and he was supposedly orbiting the moon.

Are you sure about that?

Regarding going around the dark side of the moon with no radio contact for an hour:

If a count were taken,” Collins famously wrote in his 1974 memoir Carrying the Fire, “the score would be three billion plus two over on the other side of the moon, and one plus God only knows what on this side. I like the feeling. Outside my window I can see stars — and that is all. Where I know the moon to be, there is simply a black void.”
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on July 04, 2021, 06:50:20 AM
There’s a chapter in “A Man on The Moon”, an excellent book on all this by Andrew Chaikin which I’d heartily recommend, called “A Hole In The Stars” which describes much the same thing. They could see a sea of stars and then when at the right angle there was an ominous hole where the moon was
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on July 04, 2021, 12:35:38 PM
If these were fake it would mean that the Japanese space agency is actively faking images in real-time, with perfect knowledge of cloud patterns, at dozens of frequencies, to produce a perfect simulation of what the world currently looks like from above Australia! That would be an incredible feat of technology. Not only that, but all of the data from all of these must be faked in real-time too (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Earth_observation_satellites)
Setting up the same random generator seed in multiple systems would not actually be all that hard. It takes 1-2 lines of code at best. If you consider that an "incredible feat of technology", I have a sneaking suspicion you might be easily impressed, and not particularly tech-literate.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: scomato on July 04, 2021, 07:31:55 PM
If these were fake it would mean that the Japanese space agency is actively faking images in real-time, with perfect knowledge of cloud patterns, at dozens of frequencies, to produce a perfect simulation of what the world currently looks like from above Australia! That would be an incredible feat of technology. Not only that, but all of the data from all of these must be faked in real-time too (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Earth_observation_satellites)
Setting up the same random generator seed in multiple systems would not actually be all that hard. It takes 1-2 lines of code at best. If you consider that an "incredible feat of technology", I have a sneaking suspicion you might be easily impressed, and not particularly tech-literate.

Suppose all satellite imagery and the entire satellite-weather industry is a hoax predicated upon a few lines of code that are procedurally generating clouds from a seed. Furthermore, this procedurally generated cloud-pattern just-so happens to perfectly mirror the weather of real life.

That doesn't explain why the satellites pick up large amounts of smoke from wildfires.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wEtlz7rWVU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__ZYsyhb11g

So is the tech-literate take here then?

That wildfires are being set on purpose by Globers to align with the prediction of the Cloud Generator program?

Or that the Cloud Generator program is so perfect that it can even predict and simulate the effects of wildfires?

Or that there is a separate Wildfire Generation program running on top of the Cloud Generator program? 

Remember, all of the Clouds and the Smoke would be coming from a single unchanging seed, or else all of the weather satellites would not be capturing identical images, consistent with authentic satellites taking authentic photographs of the Earth. Change the seed by even 1 number and everything is wildly different.

If you are seriously suggesting that procedural simulation programs are predicting and modelling all weather events, you're describing the holy-grail of meteorology - however this is unlikely because Chaos Theory posits that even near-future weather prediction is impossible. lavoisier.com.au/articles/climate-policy/science-and-policy/chaos-theory-and-weather-prediction.pdf (http://lavoisier.com.au/articles/climate-policy/science-and-policy/chaos-theory-and-weather-prediction.pdf) "MIT professor Dr. Edward Lorenz, and has essential implications for climate modelling. In the 2007 interview, Dr. Lorenz confirms that chaos theory proves that weather and climate cannot be predicted beyond the very short term [about 3 weeks], and that even with today's state-of-the-art observing systems and models, weather [or climate] still cannot be predicted even 2 weeks in advance."
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on July 04, 2021, 07:51:21 PM
If you are seriously suggesting that procedural simulation programs are predicting and modelling all weather events
I'm not. You're the one who claimed it would be difficult for multiple sources to remain consistent. It wouldn't be.

Now you're changing your argument to claim that mapping external data onto a map would be difficult. I'm not sure how you think that helps - you just made your original problem less difficult.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on July 04, 2021, 08:41:54 PM
If you are seriously suggesting that procedural simulation programs are predicting and modelling all weather events
I'm not. You're the one who claimed it would be difficult for multiple sources to remain consistent. It wouldn't be.

Now you're changing your argument to claim that mapping external data onto a map would be difficult. I'm not sure how you think that helps - you just made your original problem less difficult.

He's not changing his argument. He's very clear in his original post that he's not just talking about the difficulty of multiple sources to remain consistent with each other - which I agree is not difficult - but that the sources need to be consistent with real world observations of clouds, smoke from wildfires etc too. I'd suggest that's a harder problem to solve.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on July 04, 2021, 08:45:26 PM
I'd suggest that's a harder problem to solve.
Well, I just stated that it's an easier problem - we're no longer thinking about how difficult it would be to generate data, just plot it on a surface of any given choice. Since this is clearly a much simpler problem, it leaves us at a bit of an impasse.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on July 04, 2021, 08:53:57 PM
I'd suggest that's a harder problem to solve.
Well, I just stated that it's an easier problem - we're no longer thinking about how difficult it would be to generate data, just plot it on a surface of any given choice. Since this is clearly a much simpler problem, it leaves us at a bit of an impasse.
How is it easier? Generating random cloud patterns is not particularly difficult.
Getting them to align with real world observations - the starting point for that is having observations all round the, ahem, disc and then feeding that into the systems. You might argue that programmatically that's easier (not entirely sure that's true), but the logistics of having observations to feed in to the systems are surely a bigger complicating factor.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on July 04, 2021, 09:15:07 PM
How is it easier? Generating random cloud patterns is not particularly difficult.
I agree. However, if you just take this information from an external source, then you have even less work to do - you just skip the generation step.

the logistics of having observations to feed in to the systems are surely a bigger complicating factor.
How so? This is clearly what RET proposes - real data is being fed into the systems that illustrate it. Why on Earth would you argue against this?
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on July 04, 2021, 09:20:50 PM
the logistics of having observations to feed in to the systems are surely a bigger complicating factor.
How so? This is clearly what RET proposes - real data is being fed into the systems that illustrate it. Why on Earth would you argue against this?
The difference is the RE claim is that the satellites provide the data which show images from space of cloud formations, smoke trails from forest fires.
The FE claim - maybe not yours, but some FE claims - are that satellites aren't real so these images are faked. In order for that to be true AND for the images to match real world observations there has to be some other data source which is feeding in, in real time, to the faking of those images. It's the logistics of the other data source which I'm claiming is complex.

In RE the satellites ARE the data source.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on July 04, 2021, 09:47:56 PM
The FE claim - maybe not yours, but some FE claims - are that satellites aren't real so these images are faked.
Fair enough. I'll have to leave that line of argument to anyone who believes satellites are fake.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Cypher9 on July 05, 2021, 01:58:02 PM

But, you might be saying, “how can this be? I thought the astronauts on the Moon couldn’t see any stars, so how can anyone see stars in space?”

It is a common misconception that the Apollo astronauts didn’t see any stars. While stars don’t show up in the pictures from the Apollo missions, that’s because the camera exposures were set to allow for good images of the bright sunlit lunar surface, which included astronauts in bright white space suits and shiny spacecraft. Apollo astronauts reported they could see the brighter stars if they stood in the shadow of the Lunar Module, and also they saw stars while orbiting the far side of the Moon. Al Worden from Apollo 15 has said the sky was “awash with stars” in the view from the far side of the Moon that was not in daylight.
Just like stargazers on Earth need dark skies to see stars, so too when you’re in space.[/i]

Michael Collins said he couldn't see any stars at all and he was supposedly orbiting the moon.

Are you sure about that?

Regarding going around the dark side of the moon with no radio contact for an hour:

If a count were taken,” Collins famously wrote in his 1974 memoir Carrying the Fire, “the score would be three billion plus two over on the other side of the moon, and one plus God only knows what on this side. I like the feeling. Outside my window I can see stars — and that is all. Where I know the moon to be, there is simply a black void.”

He said he couldn't remember seeing any at the Apollo 11 conference  https://youtu.be/Xd1yBWsLsyQ
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: stack on July 05, 2021, 07:36:40 PM

But, you might be saying, “how can this be? I thought the astronauts on the Moon couldn’t see any stars, so how can anyone see stars in space?”

It is a common misconception that the Apollo astronauts didn’t see any stars. While stars don’t show up in the pictures from the Apollo missions, that’s because the camera exposures were set to allow for good images of the bright sunlit lunar surface, which included astronauts in bright white space suits and shiny spacecraft. Apollo astronauts reported they could see the brighter stars if they stood in the shadow of the Lunar Module, and also they saw stars while orbiting the far side of the Moon. Al Worden from Apollo 15 has said the sky was “awash with stars” in the view from the far side of the Moon that was not in daylight.
Just like stargazers on Earth need dark skies to see stars, so too when you’re in space.[/i]

Michael Collins said he couldn't see any stars at all and he was supposedly orbiting the moon.

Are you sure about that?

Regarding going around the dark side of the moon with no radio contact for an hour:

If a count were taken,” Collins famously wrote in his 1974 memoir Carrying the Fire, “the score would be three billion plus two over on the other side of the moon, and one plus God only knows what on this side. I like the feeling. Outside my window I can see stars — and that is all. Where I know the moon to be, there is simply a black void.”

He said he couldn't remember seeing any at the Apollo 11 conference  https://youtu.be/Xd1yBWsLsyQ

This is what happens when some context is removed. Don’t watch some cherry-picked clip with someone else’s biased narrative all over it. Watch the actual source. As in here:

https://youtu.be/BI_ZehPOMwI

47:13
Questioner: I have two brief questions I'd like to ask if I may when you were carrying out that incredible moonwalk did you find that the surface was equally firm anywhere or whether harder on softer spots that you could detect and secondly when you looked up at the sky could you actually see the stars and the silica River in spite of the glare?

Skipping forward to the “stars” answer:

48:22
Armstrong: ….we were never able to see stars from the lunar surface or on the daylight side of the Moon without looking through the optics I don't recall during the period of time that we were photographing the SONA curl of what what stars we could see...

Collins (Turning to Neil):  I don’t remember seeing any.

Collins is adding on to Neil’s statement, as in, no, they couldn’t see any stars on the daylight side of the moon. Just like we can’t see stars on the daylight side of earth. He wasn’t saying they never saw stars throughout the mission, just not in the “day time”. Which obviously makes sense. And context is everything.

And like I previously mentioned, Collins was pretty clear in his book that on the dark side of the moon it was “awash with stars”.

Not to mention that they used the stars for checking their navigation to and from the Moon:

14:16
Aldrin: ...we also made use of the Stars through the telescope and aligning a crosshair by rotating the field of view until the crosshair superimposed on the star this would give us the angular measurement of the star within the field of view of the telescope we then determine the distance...

So yeah, they saw stars, when it was dark enough to do so.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on July 05, 2021, 08:32:56 PM
From the aforementioned book, I misremembered - this was actually from Apollo 8, the first one to go around the moon:

"The men were running through the checklist for the burn [the one to put them in to lunar orbit] when suddenly the spacecraft was enveloped by darkness. Anders realised they were in the deep shadow of the moon. As his eyes adapted, he saw that the sky was full of stars, so many he could not recognise constellations. He craned toward the flat glass to look back over his shoulder, where they were headed, and he noticed a distinct arc beyond which there were no stars at all, only blackness. All at once he was hit with the eerie realisation that this hole in the stars was the moon"
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Action80 on July 06, 2021, 12:24:59 PM

But, you might be saying, “how can this be? I thought the astronauts on the Moon couldn’t see any stars, so how can anyone see stars in space?”

It is a common misconception that the Apollo astronauts didn’t see any stars. While stars don’t show up in the pictures from the Apollo missions, that’s because the camera exposures were set to allow for good images of the bright sunlit lunar surface, which included astronauts in bright white space suits and shiny spacecraft. Apollo astronauts reported they could see the brighter stars if they stood in the shadow of the Lunar Module, and also they saw stars while orbiting the far side of the Moon. Al Worden from Apollo 15 has said the sky was “awash with stars” in the view from the far side of the Moon that was not in daylight.
Just like stargazers on Earth need dark skies to see stars, so too when you’re in space.[/i]

Michael Collins said he couldn't see any stars at all and he was supposedly orbiting the moon.

Are you sure about that?

Regarding going around the dark side of the moon with no radio contact for an hour:

If a count were taken,” Collins famously wrote in his 1974 memoir Carrying the Fire, “the score would be three billion plus two over on the other side of the moon, and one plus God only knows what on this side. I like the feeling. Outside my window I can see stars — and that is all. Where I know the moon to be, there is simply a black void.”

He said he couldn't remember seeing any at the Apollo 11 conference  https://youtu.be/Xd1yBWsLsyQ

This is what happens when some context is removed. Don’t watch some cherry-picked clip with someone else’s biased narrative all over it. Watch the actual source. As in here:

https://youtu.be/BI_ZehPOMwI

47:13
Questioner: I have two brief questions I'd like to ask if I may when you were carrying out that incredible moonwalk did you find that the surface was equally firm anywhere or whether harder on softer spots that you could detect and secondly when you looked up at the sky could you actually see the stars and the silica River in spite of the glare?

Skipping forward to the “stars” answer:

48:22
Armstrong: ….we were never able to see stars from the lunar surface or on the daylight side of the Moon without looking through the optics I don't recall during the period of time that we were photographing the SONA curl of what what stars we could see...

Collins (Turning to Neil):  I don’t remember seeing any.

Collins is adding on to Neil’s statement, as in, no, they couldn’t see any stars on the daylight side of the moon. Just like we can’t see stars on the daylight side of earth. He wasn’t saying they never saw stars throughout the mission, just not in the “day time”. Which obviously makes sense. And context is everything.

And like I previously mentioned, Collins was pretty clear in his book that on the dark side of the moon it was “awash with stars”.

Not to mention that they used the stars for checking their navigation to and from the Moon:

14:16
Aldrin: ...we also made use of the Stars through the telescope and aligning a crosshair by rotating the field of view until the crosshair superimposed on the star this would give us the angular measurement of the star within the field of view of the telescope we then determine the distance...

So yeah, they saw stars, when it was dark enough to do so.
Yeah, just interpreting very clear cut statements as to what you want them to mean is typical.

As if they ever went to the supposed dark side.

Armstrong and Collins were quite clear.

They never saw stars.

Perhaps the reason is more in line with the fact they never went to the moon to begin with.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Iceman on July 06, 2021, 02:27:00 PM
How on earth was it necessary to quote 5  entire posts just to write those 5 sentences?
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: stack on July 06, 2021, 04:37:24 PM
Yeah, just interpreting very clear cut statements as to what you want them to mean is typical.

As if they ever went to the supposed dark side.

Armstrong and Collins were quite clear.

They never saw stars.

Perhaps the reason is more in line with the fact they never went to the moon to begin with.

I take it you and only you can the sky awash with stars during the day. Congratulations on your super power.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Action80 on July 06, 2021, 07:11:40 PM
Yeah, just interpreting very clear cut statements as to what you want them to mean is typical.

As if they ever went to the supposed dark side.

Armstrong and Collins were quite clear.

They never saw stars.

Perhaps the reason is more in line with the fact they never went to the moon to begin with.

I take it you and only you can the sky awash with stars during the day. Congratulations on your super power.
Since you understand that seeing stars in the light of day is nigh impossible (more to do with sunlight diffusing throughout the atmoplane) I am surprised you would adopt a totally subjective (and highly erroneous) interpretation of the statements, rather than simply taking them at face value.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: stack on July 06, 2021, 10:38:31 PM
Yeah, just interpreting very clear cut statements as to what you want them to mean is typical.

As if they ever went to the supposed dark side.

Armstrong and Collins were quite clear.

They never saw stars.

Perhaps the reason is more in line with the fact they never went to the moon to begin with.

I take it you and only you can the sky awash with stars during the day. Congratulations on your super power.
Since you understand that seeing stars in the light of day is nigh impossible (more to do with sunlight diffusing throughout the atmoplane) I am surprised you would adopt a totally subjective (and highly erroneous) interpretation of the statements, rather than simply taking them at face value.

What's this about how it's the atmosphere that makes it so we can't see stars during the day? Seriously? How about providing a source for that.

I did take the press conference at face value. They were specifically asked if they could see stars, "despite the glare".  Armstrong said no. Collins immediately responded with no as well.  So the question was, can you see stars despite the daytime glare. The answer is no, not in the daytime. Seems reasonable.

Collins goes on in his book to say that the dark side of the moon was "awash with stars..."

So yeah, in daytime, in the glare of the moon, you can't see stars. In the nighttime you can. Just like here on earth - I don't remember seeing stars in the glare of daytime earth either. Imagine that.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Iceman on July 06, 2021, 11:18:46 PM

What's this about how it's the atmosphere that makes it so we can't see stars during the day?

Everyone knows the atmosphere goes away at night, which is why we see stars at night. Nothing to do with any other bright things out there...
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: stack on July 07, 2021, 07:08:20 AM

What's this about how it's the atmosphere that makes it so we can't see stars during the day?

Everyone knows the atmosphere goes away at night, which is why we see stars at night. Nothing to do with any other bright things out there...

Yeah, my bad. I forgot the whole "Night time disappearing atmosphere" thing...Good thing Lackey didn't though.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on July 07, 2021, 11:39:04 AM
What's this about how it's the atmosphere that makes it so we can't see stars during the day? Seriously? How about providing a source for that.
Damn, I'm quite used to the RE zealots complaining about high school science being hard, but this is primary school/daycare level of knowledge.

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/the-universe/81-the-universe/stars-and-star-clusters/stargazing/735-why-can-t-you-see-stars-during-the-day-beginner
https://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question52.html
http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=2974 (answer 6 will be particularly helpful to address your specific error, together with the two links above)

How on Earth can we have any meaningful conversation when one side of the debate doesn't know what "day" is, or why the sky is blue? Sort yourselves out.

Everyone knows the atmosphere goes away at night, which is why we see stars at night. Nothing to do with any other bright things out there...
Yeah, my bad. I forgot the whole "Night time disappearing atmosphere" thing...Good thing Lackey didn't though.
A super-duper-friendly smiley face reminder that your lacks in preschool education do not make you exempt from the rules. You're posting in the upper - act like it.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Iceman on July 07, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
A fair warning.

But the point remains, Rayleigh scattering is the particles in the atmosphere interacting with sunlight to give the atmosphere a bright blue colour. When the earth blocks incoming light from the sun, starlight and reflected light off the moon reach is pretty well, despite the atmosphere still being present.

Obviously you're right, the sky is blue because our atmosphere, but if there was no sunlight, there would be no blue. Just as its laid out in the link you provided. Hence, the reason we dont see stars in the day, other than our own sun, is because of the sun, not the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Action80 on July 07, 2021, 12:40:04 PM
A fair warning.

But the point remains, Rayleigh scattering is the particles in the atmosphere interacting with sunlight to give the atmosphere a bright blue colour. When the earth blocks incoming light from the sun, starlight and reflected light off the moon reach is pretty well, despite the atmosphere still being present.

Obviously you're right, the sky is blue because our atmosphere, but if there was no sunlight, there would be no blue. Just as its laid out in the link you provided. Hence, the reason we dont see stars in the day, other than our own sun, is because of the sun, not the atmosphere.
Wrong.

It is because of the interaction of the sunlight and the atmoplane.

You should just stop.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Iceman on July 07, 2021, 01:24:14 PM
Regardless of chosen suffix, I'm glad we both agree the sun is the root cause.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Action80 on July 07, 2021, 01:28:51 PM
Regardless of chosen suffix, I'm glad we both agree the sun is the root cause.
Regardless of chosen suffix, demonstrate the sunlight is the root.

Got proof the chicken was first somewhere?
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Iceman on July 07, 2021, 01:37:13 PM
I demonstrate it every time I look upward at night while breathing.

And to link it back to the meat of this thread, astronauts proved it while on the daytime side of the moon (no stars) vs the dark side of the moon (many stars).

Atmosphere is a player, but not the cause.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on July 07, 2021, 01:50:14 PM
Obviously you're right, the sky is blue because our atmosphere, but if there was no sunlight, there would be no blue. Just as its laid out in the link you provided. Hence, the reason we dont see stars in the day, other than our own sun, is because of the sun, not the atmosphere.
I was very careful in choosing sources to address this suggestion pre-emptively. It would seem that astronomers want children to think otherwise.

Quote from: http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/the-universe/81-the-universe/stars-and-star-clusters/stargazing/735-why-can-t-you-see-stars-during-the-day-beginner
If you were standing on the Moon, for instance, where there is no atmosphere, you would see the stars both day and night.
Quote from: http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=2974
If the Earth had no atmosphere, then our daytime sky would be black like at night, except the sun would be a huge spotlight shining down at us. In such an unpleasant world we might see stars during the day. But since we have an atmosphere, the sun's light scatters and gives us a beautiful blue glow from all over, not just from where the sun is. In other words, even if you look away from the sun you are still seeing the sun's light that has bounced off of some particle in the atmosphere, and that light is much brighter than the light from the stars.

If the atmosphere is a not a factor, let alone the leading factor, then why do astronomers and scientists at Cornell and UCSB tell our children that it is one? It looks like they've been doing it for decades, too! What dastardly plan are they up to this time?

Don't forget that the "sun is bright" excuse is being applied to the Moon here, not just Earth. The presence of an atmosphere, and whether or not it has any bearing on the stars' visibility, is absolutely essential.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Action80 on July 07, 2021, 01:53:03 PM
I demonstrate it every time I look upward at night while breathing.

And to link it back to the meat of this thread, astronauts proved it while on the daytime side of the moon (no stars) vs the dark side of the moon (many stars).

Atmosphere is a player, but not the cause.
Aside from Pete's well formed response, I would continue the query as to the sunlight being the cause in this fashion.

If it is the sunlight causing the stars to disappear, then why comets?
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Kokorikos on July 07, 2021, 02:05:20 PM
I found this:

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-stars-cannot-be-seen-while-on-the-moon

It basically says that it is difficult (but not impossible) to see the stars during daytime while on the moon.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Iceman on July 07, 2021, 02:19:24 PM
If we go back to the answers provided in the link pete provided in reply 46:

Answer 1: "During the day the stars are still there, you just can't see them because the sky is so bright."

Answer 2: "Try noticing the sky at night during the next month.Compare how many stars you can see now, when the moon is not up (until around midnight or later), to a few weeks from now when the moon is full again. Now imagine having the sun in the sky instead of the full moon. How many stars do you think you should be able to see?"

Answer 3: "The reason that you cannot see stars during the daytime is that the sun's rays overpower the faint light we see from the stars."

Answer 4: "So the first problem is that your eye -- to allow you to see, will reduce its sensitivity when there is bright light present."

Answer 5: "The reason we can't see the stars during the day is because when the sun is up, it is so much brighter than the stars that our eyes can't pick them out of the sky."

Answer 6: "In the day the stars are still there, but you cannot see them because they are so much fainter than the sunlight that is scattered by our atmosphere."

Answer 7: "There are at least two problems with observing stars during the day time. First, stars are very faint compared to the light from the sun...Nevertheless, it is possible to see some stars in daylight. The stars must be bright, such as Sirius, Arcturus, Vega, Capella, Rigel, etc."

At no point did I say the atmosphere isnt a factor. But the sun is the root cause.

In the Cornell link it says as much as well. It also says you could see stars during the daytime on the moon. Obviously that counters what I've been saying and I dont have the willingness to say that's wrong, but I do wonder if we're getting enough context from that short portion of the quote, i.e. are they visible everywhere you look or only if you look away from or block the moon's reflective surface and the sun itself.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on July 07, 2021, 03:15:34 PM
At no point did I say the atmosphere isnt a factor.
Indeed, that was stack. Recall what we're responding to:

What's this about how it's the atmosphere that makes it so we can't see stars during the day? Seriously? How about providing a source for that.

But the sun is the root cause.
Evidently, this is not the case, since the sources we both agree are reasonable state that a scenario in which harsh sunlight + visible stars is perfectly plausible. It is the presence of an atmosphere that uniquely distinguishes between sunlight + visible stars and sunlight + inability to see stars.

In the Cornell link it says as much as well. It also says you could see stars during the daytime on the moon. Obviously that counters what I've been saying and I dont have the willingness to say that's wrong, but I do wonder if we're getting enough context from that short portion of the quote, i.e. are they visible everywhere you look or only if you look away from or block the moon's reflective surface and the sun itself.
That appears entirely irrelevant to stack's flippant dismissal of basic knowledge he should have gathered around the age of 4-7. To say that the Earth scenario and the Moon scenario are analogous is demonstrably incorrect, and to demand sources to show that the atmosphere disperses sunlight, causing starlight to be obscured is a ridiculous attempt at disruption. It deserves to be called out as such.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Action80 on July 07, 2021, 03:22:14 PM
I found this:

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-stars-cannot-be-seen-while-on-the-moon

It basically says that it is difficult (but not impossible) to see the stars during daytime while on the moon.
Yeah.

Quora versus Cornell.

And I am almost positive the Quora response was submitted by Rama, who has been to outer space.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: stack on July 08, 2021, 01:22:43 AM
In the Cornell link it says as much as well. It also says you could see stars during the daytime on the moon. Obviously that counters what I've been saying and I dont have the willingness to say that's wrong, but I do wonder if we're getting enough context from that short portion of the quote, i.e. are they visible everywhere you look or only if you look away from or block the moon's reflective surface and the sun itself.
That appears entirely irrelevant to stack's flippant dismissal of basic knowledge he should have gathered around the age of 4-7. To say that the Earth scenario and the Moon scenario are analogous is demonstrably incorrect, and to demand sources to show that the atmosphere disperses sunlight, causing starlight to be obscured is a ridiculous attempt at disruption. It deserves to be called out as such.

Apologies for being flippant. I wasn't intending to disrupt I was just, well, being flippant.

In any case, I contacted Dr. Kornreich, the professor who answered the question you cited (http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/the-universe/81-the-universe/stars-and-star-clusters/stargazing/735-why-can-t-you-see-stars-during-the-day-beginner) at Cornell's "Ask An Astronomer" asking him to clarify what he wrote. Specifically the part, "If you were standing on the Moon, for instance, where there is no atmosphere, you would see the stars both day and night."

I didn't expect a response, but he got back to me right away which is amazingly cool. Here's what I asked:

"Hello,
I was reading an answer on Ask An Astronomer that I believe you wrote. The question was, "Why can't you see stars during the day?". I'm trying to settle a debate with an Apollo denier friend of mine.
Specifically, the notion of whether the astronauts could see stars from the lunar surface. Looking at transcripts and such, they said that they couldn't see stars due to the glare, which I believe to be true. However, my friend found your response to the above question and is using that as his claim that the astronauts were lying. Here is what you wrote as part of your response: "If you were standing on the Moon, for instance, where there is no atmosphere, you would see the stars both day and night."
My understanding is that the Apollo astronauts could only see stars from the lunar surface when they themselves were in shadow (Ex., behind the LM) or when orbiting around the dark side of the Moon.
His point is that earth's atmosphere is what makes it so that we can't readily see stars during the daytime and that the Moon w/o an atmosphere makes it so you actually can readily see stars from the daylight side surface.
So the question is, could the Apollo astronauts see stars from the daytime Moon surface (when not in shadow) because there is no atmosphere? Basically I'm looking for a clarification of your answer I referenced above.
"

Here's his response:

"Yes it is and was possible to see stars during the day on the Moon. But also yes, you would need to shade your eyes from the Sun because eyes don’t have the dynamic range (no camera does) to see the Sun and stars at the same time. In the Apollo 17 mission logs, Gene Cernan writes at some length about shading his eyes from the Sun with his hand in order to see the stars. I’m sure you can find that online somewhere if you search diligently enough."

(https://i.imgur.com/WEQHaks.jpg)

Based upon his suggestion, I scoured the web for the Apollo 17 logs and found them. Here's what I think Dr. Kornreich was referring to:

113:19:58 - [Schmitt - "We couldn't see the stars out the window or when we were out on the surface. It took the collimation of the telescope to eliminate all of the reflected light reaching your eye from your surroundings. Even in the LM shadow, there were too many bright things in your field-of-view for the stars to be visible."]

[A telescope - or any long, straight tube - admits only light rays coming from a small range of directions. The light rays that reach the end of the tube are virtually parallel to each other and to the long axis of the tube and, therefore, have been "collimated".]

[Cernan - "When you were in the lunar module, looking out the window, you certainly couldn't see stars. Using the telescope was sort of like being in a deep well; it cut out all the reflected light and let you see the stars. It was also generally true that, when you were on the surface in the LM's shadow, there were too many bright things in your field-of-view for the stars to be visible. But I remember that I wanted to see whether I could see stars, and there were times out on the surface when I found that, if you allowed yourself to just focus and maybe even just shielded your eyes to some degree, even outside the LM shadow you could see stars in the sky. And, quite frankly, under the right conditions here on Earth on a bright sunlit day, you can do the same thing. I could see stars through my helmet visor; not easily, but it can be done."]

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/a17.postland.html

So all in all, interesting stuff that one can make of it what they will. Some extra context always helps.
Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: Kokorikos on July 08, 2021, 07:38:45 AM
Quora versus Cornell.

I do not think that it conflicts the information in the other links that were posted.

However, I cannot verify if what is mentioned in the link is correct as I do not have the necessary knowledge.
I only posted it as it is on topic and it offers some additional information.


Title: Re: Do the images of planets prove we live on a globe?
Post by: PhilosopherInAus on August 11, 2021, 10:22:02 AM
The galaxies are cartoons - https://wiki.tfes.org/Problems_of_the_Galaxies

As an Australian who has access to the rural outback, you can see the Milkyway without a telescope with the naked eye. I dont know, might be the drugs I was given since it doesn't exist to some FE-ers

Last I checked, they arent 'cartoons', they're a ton of stars, planets and their moons, even whole solar systems, sometimes circling around a central star going across hundreds of thousands of lightyears.

I looked briefly at that article and it gave me a headache. It continues to astound me that you would rather believe an 800+ year philosopher etc. over modern technology and naked eye viewing (you would rather say its refraction to that one though)