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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2018, 10:57:25 AM »
See my post here:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9867.msg154653#msg154653
I have, and after reading a few pages of junker's recent posts, I responded as follows: Junker hardly ever posts in the upper. I've addressed the one recent case that you've been whinging about.

If you have other cases you want to present, do so. I can't really address you being under the impression that something's happening if you can't demonstrate that it does indeed happen.
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Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2018, 10:59:09 AM »
So I've read this whole thread and I can't sit by and stay silent any longer.
Hex.  Junker is a mod but he's also a member.  He has all the rights and privledges you do.  Thus, if he wants to call you a moron in AR, he can call you a moron in AR.  He is not bound to some higher standard you've made in your head. 

No, the rights and privileges are not equal. I can not take his posts, move them to angry ranting just for the purpose of insulting him. He can do whatever he likes with my posts.

I have no problems with moderators doing there job, and cleaning up threads, removing posts if they do not go along with the forum rules and style. That's fine. But to comment all removed posts with insulting remarks, is an abuse of the role as moderator. 

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2018, 11:01:28 AM »
I can not take his posts, move them to angry ranting just for the purpose of insulting him.
Nobody does that. Posts get moved out of the upper if they don't belong to the upper. The purpose is to keep the boards compliant with the rules.

I have no problems with moderators doing there job, and cleaning up threads, removing posts if they do not go along with the forum rules and style.
Good. You're making progress.

But to comment all removed posts with insulting remarks, is an abuse of the role as moderator.
Abuse? Goodness gracious. Nobody's forcing you to read stuff in AR. Also, not a single one of your posts has been removed.

My proposal, should you choose to accept it, is that we restrict your access to Angry Ranting. You're clearly too sensitive for it, and you lack the restraint to stop viewing things which upset you. We could help you out with that one.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 11:05:16 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2018, 11:02:27 AM »
See my post here:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9867.msg154653#msg154653
I have, and after reading a few pages of junker's recent posts, I responded as follows: Junker hardly ever posts in the upper. I've addressed the one recent case that you've been whinging about.

It's not about how often he is posting, that's obvious that he stays out of the most discussions. I'm talking about the occasions where he is doing it. And upon them you will hardly find a post that does not qualify as a low-content post according to your own forum rules.   

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2018, 11:04:15 AM »
It's not about how often he is posting, that's obvious that he stays out of the most discussions. I'm talking about the occasions where he is doing it. And upon them you will hardly find a post that does not qualify as a low-content post according to your own forum rules.
Okay. Show me. I've gone through a fair few pages of his posts and haven't found that to be the case.

Again: If you have cases you'd like to present, do so. Don't just tell me that they totally-for-certain exist. I don't care about that.
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Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2018, 11:06:59 AM »
I can not take his posts, move them to angry ranting just for the purpose of insulting him.
Nobody does that. Posts get moved out of the upper if they don't belong to the upper. The purpose is to keep the boards compliant with the rules.

I have no problems with moderators doing there job, and cleaning up threads, removing posts if they do not go along with the forum rules and style.
Good. You're making progress.

But to comment all removed posts with insulting remarks, is an abuse of the role as moderator.
Abuse? Goodness gracious. Nobody's forcing you to read stuff in AR.

My proposal, should you choose to accept it, is that we restrict your access to Angry Ranting. You're clearly too sensitive for it, and you lack the restraint to stop viewing things which upset you. We could help you out with that one.

I only read them, cause I was looking what happened to my post.

It's not too sensitive. I told you, if you need this low level of discussion for your personal satisfaction, I'm fine with that. But I don't like to be involved in this.   

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2018, 11:11:06 AM »
I only read them, cause I was looking what happened to my post.
Sounds like a personal problem to me. Perhaps you should write about it on your blog. If you really can't stand junker's posts in AR that much, you could always ignore him.

It's not too sensitive. I told you, if you need this low level of discussion for your personal satisfaction, I'm fine with that.
And yet you keep repeatedly trying to argue that we have no right to say mean things about you in AR. Make up your mind.

But I don't like to be involved in this.
And what do you expect us to do about it? If you don't want to be involved in something, then, well, stop being involved in it. We're not demanding that you read AR. Hell, I've even suggested that you should find a forum that suits you better. If you don't like to be involved, then don't be involved.
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Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2018, 11:33:12 AM »
It's not about how often he is posting, that's obvious that he stays out of the most discussions. I'm talking about the occasions where he is doing it. And upon them you will hardly find a post that does not qualify as a low-content post according to your own forum rules.
Okay. Show me. I've gone through a fair few pages of his posts and haven't found that to be the case.

Again: If you have cases you'd like to present, do so. Don't just tell me that they totally-for-certain exist. I don't care about that.

High content posts?

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9854.msg154386#msg154386

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9575.msg150824#msg150824

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=8460.msg142361#msg142361

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=7985.msg134868#msg134868

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=7898.msg134851#msg134851

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=7003.msg127379#msg127379

Just a random collection of posts over the last months.

See also his tendency to add little implicit or explicit insulting remarks, like in the last post ("I really try to keep it simple for RE logicians").

What would he do with a post by me starting with "I really try to keep it simple for FE logicians"?

Offline Tontogary

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2018, 12:05:06 PM »
How about this one for which i was warned; yet i was posting a link to a previous comment, which was completely relevant.  Read back the three posts before it, and my only “crime” was to open a new post instead of modifying the post before it.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9653.msg150826#msg150826

And yet read this one......

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9358.msg154952#msg154952

See the similarities????



Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2018, 12:54:48 PM »
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9854.msg154386#msg154386
Already discussed and addressed. I asked for other examples.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9575.msg150824#msg150824
It's only fair that junker should leave a message before permabanning someone.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=8460.msg142361#msg142361
Again, a statement of moderation action. Seems to contain all the content needed.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=7985.msg134868#msg134868
I see no problem here.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=7898.msg134851#msg134851
Looks like another case of someone attacking junker and him responding. Also, this is over half a year old now. I'll take it as confirmation that you haven't indeed witnessed many issues.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=7003.msg127379#msg127379
Once again, I fail to see the problem. Yes, it's a heated discussion, but what rules do you propose were broken?

Just a random collection of posts over the last months.
It was indeed rather random. Please don't waste my time again.

What would he do with a post by me starting with "I really try to keep it simple for FE logicians"?
That depends on how you ended your post, and what the overall balance of content was.

See the similarities????
I do not. Your "crime" was posting a quote with no context, providing no contribution to the thread. Did this particular instance deserve a warning? I dunno, I wouldn't have issued one. Tom's post is providing a video in response to a question. The question was referenced, and an answer was given. How is this at all similar to you providing an out-of-context quote with an addendum of "hi here is a quote"?

Finally, you are fundamentally missing an important aspect of our system: getting a single warning matters extremely little. You guys love to get upset over the fact that someone asked you to behave. You will note that, outside of particularly irredeemable cases, bans are hardly ever issued. Usually, for occasional offenders, we just keep issuing "super duper final warnings" ad nauseam.

So, should you have gotten a warning for that post? In my view, no. Does it matter enough for either of us to waste our time on this? Absolutely not.
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Offline edby

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2018, 02:18:35 PM »
Now the subject has been raised, I have a similar concern. I was warned three times by PM, but anonymously, that my posts were ‘spamming’. Finally I was banned for 3 days by Junker for ‘low content posts’.

My issue is (1) that I don’t think my posts are ‘low content’. I did a PhD on the subject of the geometry of the visual field, including work by one of the top mathematicians in the country (the late John  Mayberry, who was also my undergraduate supervisor). The subject is closely related to how we perceive or represent 'flatness'. I could explain this in more detail if anyone asks.


And (2) if they are felt to be low content, then please warn me publicly, rather than by anonymous mail. Then at least I can get a sense of why the content is thought to be low. The ban was as a result of a thread including posts like this
Quote
I said mathematically true. Mathematics is what mathematics is. It is indifferent to RE or FE models. If I claim that 2+1=3, is this RET? How?
Incidentally, that is just the kind of thing Prof Mayberry might have said.

In addition, I thought it was rather low to do this while I was debating with a mod.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #51 on: June 06, 2018, 02:36:07 PM »
I don’t think my posts are ‘low content’.
That's simply not for you to decide.

if they are felt to be low content, then please warn me publicly
This is already common practice. In fact, if you look at hexagon's complaint above, he's very bothered by the fact that warnings are issued publicly.

Here are a couple of times where I publicly informed you that your posts were not appropriate for the upper:
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9819.msg153882#msg153882
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9813.msg153950#msg153950

Coincidentally, the reason for your ban has been made public, and it's not what you claim it is. Funnily enough, not a single of your warnings originated in the thread you assert.
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9797.msg154169#msg154169

In addition, I thought it was rather low to do this while I was debating with a mod.
Do you think rules should be ignored just because you're talking to a moderator? I'm a forum member all the same. I would understand this complaint if I was both your discussion partner and the person issuing warnings to you, but this is not the case.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 02:44:41 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline edby

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2018, 02:43:02 PM »
OK he is entirely serious.

I told you...

If you have nothing to add to the thread beyond musing about sandokhan's posts, then I will ask you to refrain from derailing the thread. Take it to CN. Warnings for both.

EDIT - Turns out both of you are sitting on three warnings already. So why don't you both take a few days off to review the rules.
I see. So 'take a few days off' meant literally not posting for a few days. When I did post, that prompted the ban, yes?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #53 on: June 06, 2018, 02:45:39 PM »
I see. So 'take a few days off' meant literally not posting for a few days. When I did post, that prompted the ban, yes?
Almost. "Take a few days off" in this case meant "I am banning you for a few days, thus preventing you from posting".
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Offline edby

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #54 on: June 06, 2018, 02:52:19 PM »
Regarding this thread https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9813.msg153950#msg153950 which you mention, you wrote
I'm going to be charitable and not issue two warnings for the same offence within 24 hours. Please keep your complaints about individual FE'ers to Angry Ranting. Since you're already on three warnings, short bans will follow soon.
The only complaint about individuals was this:
I don't know about the distance from Paris to London but there have been claims made that the distance between New York and Paris is unknown:
The distance from New York to Paris is unknown.
That seems a perfectly valid comment. It was true that Tom Bishop said this (he was quoted) and this related to the subject of the thread. Have I missed something?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2018, 02:58:11 PM »
That seems a perfectly valid comment.
Once again, I do not care about what may or may not "seem" to be the case to you.

Have I missed something?
Yes. You missed the OP. Not only are you misquoting Tom's claim in the thread's subject (and very obviously targeting him), the thread you've created consists of nothing but "You're wrong. Why are people still wrong?". As I said, you are welcome to discuss ideas in the upper, or individuals in CN/AR.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 03:00:33 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline edby

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2018, 03:04:54 PM »
OK I get it. Don't criticise Tom Bishop.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2018, 03:08:48 PM »
Don't criticise Tom Bishop.
Criticise his ideas (without misrepresenting them), not the individual. If you really want to complain about him as a person, do so in Angry Ranting or Complete Nonsense, which are more or less our "anything goes" zone. It's where people go to call me an "obnoxious prick," among other things ;)

Meanwhile, the upper fora are meant to be fairly clean and well-behaved.
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Offline edby

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2018, 03:13:00 PM »
Don't criticise Tom Bishop.
Criticise his ideas (without misrepresenting them), not the individual. If you really want to complain about him as a person, do so in Angry Ranting or Complete Nonsense, which are more or less our "anything goes" zone. It's where people go to call me an "obnoxious prick," among other things ;)

Meanwhile, the upper fora are meant to be fairly clean and well-behaved.

So if I opened a thread about distance from London to New York, and explained how distances measured by lat/lon are different from distances measured by triangulation (which was the implicit point of the OP) then that is OK?


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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2018, 03:18:38 PM »
Sure. If your post references a specific claim and addresses it without slighting the individual, there's no problem there. I can't promise you that such a thread would be popular, but it wouldn't be in breach of the rules, in principle.
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