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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #80 on: September 30, 2016, 08:38:57 AM »
Yes. BLM are, of course, worse than other racists, since they much more frequently loot and pillage towns which are already struggling with poverty.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #81 on: September 30, 2016, 09:25:20 AM »
Yes. BLM are, of course, worse than other racists, since they much more frequently loot and pillage towns which are already struggling with poverty.

I'd say angry people but sure, why not.  Cops kill unarmed people all the time, regardless of race.  Remember when that little white kid was shot to death when he waved that toy gun?
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #82 on: September 30, 2016, 11:41:00 AM »
I'd say angry people but sure, why not.  Cops kill unarmed people all the time, regardless of race.
Very unfortunately, cops kill people from certain backgrounds, which sometimes happen to coincide with race for a multitude of reasons, mostly historical and cultural. It's a difficult subject, but setting black neighborhoods on fire is not the solution. But hey, nice strawman, living life without nuance must be blissful.

Remember when that little white kid was shot to death when he waved that toy gun?
Assuming you're mistaken about the "little kid", I think I do. I'm not sure. Which of the 13 cases from this year are you referring to? My guess is Jeffrey Casale.

Anyway, some numbers and stats for you, just in case you wanted to check your beliefs:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

I especially recommend filtering by race and weapon :^)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 11:59:26 AM by SexWarrior »
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #83 on: September 30, 2016, 12:52:37 PM »
I see...


Well, there goes my opinion.  So with this new data I must conclude:
I can trust no one.  Not the media, not social media, not even myself.  Everyone has the potential to manipulate their data set to fit their agenda, myself included.

Thus, there is no way for me to come to an educated conclusion anymore about any subject as there is no way for me to verify any of the data.  Not even that database you posted.  Like, for example, those numbers are very convincing.  Whites have died far more often than blacks: 330 to 174 respectively.  But that's not in line with population percentage.  At 12% of the US population they account for 24% of all police shootings.  So it's pretty clear that something else is the cause of such deaths.

But that's impossible to determine since everything is manipulated.  I don't even trust what I just wrote. 

I guess what I'm saying is:
I have no counter argument and have decided to just ignore the whole situation.  I can't do anything.  I can't help.  I can't even determine what (or if) there's a problem.  So why should I bother?  I'll just sit here and drink tea.


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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #84 on: September 30, 2016, 12:54:45 PM »
That's probably the wisest approach to the situation I've heard to date. And no, I'm not trying to be snarky.
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Offline rooster

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #85 on: September 30, 2016, 12:59:26 PM »
Ah, good. Finally Lord Dave is seeing the cynical moderate approach.

Also, there was never anything you could do to help. Even if you think blacks are being killed at high numbers, all you can really do is be good to the people around you and raise your kids to do the same.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #86 on: September 30, 2016, 01:03:15 PM »
Ah, good. Finally Lord Dave is seeing the cynical moderate approach.

Also, there was never anything you could do to help. Even if you think blacks are being killed at high numbers, all you can really do is be good to the people around you and raise your kids to do the same.

Apathy.  Is that really the solution?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #87 on: September 30, 2016, 01:18:09 PM »
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/ineligible.asp

If we're going to say that BLM is racist based on common association with people spouting racist rhetoric, then there should be no doubt that the birthers are racist as well.  Luke's goofy arguments certainly haven't lend much credence to their supposed sincerity.  That being said, rioting is the utter worst and people who try to defend it have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.  Seriously, any time I read a stupid article with a headline saying something like "Don't condemn the rioters too harshly," or "These rioters have a right to be mad," I know that the author isn't familiar with the history of rioting and doesn't understand just how incredibly destructive and dangerous they always end up being.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 08:58:54 PM by George »

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Offline rooster

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #88 on: September 30, 2016, 01:23:02 PM »
Ah, good. Finally Lord Dave is seeing the cynical moderate approach.

Also, there was never anything you could do to help. Even if you think blacks are being killed at high numbers, all you can really do is be good to the people around you and raise your kids to do the same.

Apathy.  Is that really the solution?
I think you missed something.

That's not apathy, it's understanding your place in the world and what actually changes things. Riots and acting on your ignorant feelings doesn't do anything.
Also, as a Southern American, it's a poverty issue and not a racial one. Ghettos are everywhere and it's full of uneducated and violent humans that happen to be mostly black. I honestly am not even sure you can really understand that until you spend some time here.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #89 on: September 30, 2016, 01:37:51 PM »
Ah, good. Finally Lord Dave is seeing the cynical moderate approach.

Also, there was never anything you could do to help. Even if you think blacks are being killed at high numbers, all you can really do is be good to the people around you and raise your kids to do the same.

Apathy.  Is that really the solution?
I think you missed something.

That's not apathy, it's understanding your place in the world and what actually changes things. Riots and acting on your ignorant feelings doesn't do anything.
Also, as a Southern American, it's a poverty issue and not a racial one. Ghettos are everywhere and it's full of uneducated and violent humans that happen to be mostly black. I honestly am not even sure you can really understand that until you spend some time here.
I didn't miss it.  I'm just wondering what the point is.  If you're nice, you just get taken advantage of by the system, society, or just plain killed.  I've been nice and look at me? 

And you're probably right.  I doubt I'll truly understand it without going there.  And I don't want to be there for any length of time because of what I've heard.
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Offline rooster

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #90 on: September 30, 2016, 01:46:03 PM »
lol

Then I guess you don't understand what "be good to people" means. Obviously don't let yourself be a spineless twit, but don't be racist, an asshole alt-right, or a hateful libtard. Just help out your neighbor if/when you can and treat them with kindness. Treat people with respect and your kids will learn from your example, then so on and so forth.

The South is actually quite lovely, you're missing out on a lot if you let fear driven media make your choices. Just don't live next to the ghetto, be in the city alone at night, or expect the drivers to be any decent. But hey - I've done all those things and I'm fine.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #91 on: September 30, 2016, 01:51:17 PM »
lol

Then I guess you don't understand what "be good to people" means. Obviously don't let yourself be a spineless twit, but don't be racist, an asshole alt-right, or a hateful libtard. Just help out your neighbor if/when you can and treat them with kindness. Treat people with respect and your kids will learn from your example, then so on and so forth.

The South is actually quite lovely, you're missing out on a lot if you let fear driven media make your choices. Just don't live next to the ghetto, be in the city alone at night, or expect the drivers to be any decent. But hey - I've done all those things and I'm fine.
Everyone's racist.
And why just your neighbor?  Why not someone from across town?  Across state?  The world?  Why should we care about the people living within 500 feet vs people living far away?

Fear was keeping me out of ghettos, not the south.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #92 on: September 30, 2016, 02:02:44 PM »
I'd say angry people but sure, why not.  Cops kill unarmed people all the time, regardless of race.
Very unfortunately, cops kill people from certain backgrounds, which sometimes happen to coincide with race for a multitude of reasons, mostly historical and cultural. It's a difficult subject, but setting black neighborhoods on fire is not the solution. But hey, nice strawman, living life without nuance must be blissful.

Remember when that little white kid was shot to death when he waved that toy gun?
Assuming you're mistaken about the "little kid", I think I do. I'm not sure. Which of the 13 cases from this year are you referring to? My guess is Jeffrey Casale.

Anyway, some numbers and stats for you, just in case you wanted to check your beliefs:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

I especially recommend filtering by race and weapon :^)

Do you know of any effort to correlate the over representation of African Americans to any factor? (Racism, economics, etc...)?
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Offline rooster

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #93 on: September 30, 2016, 02:04:57 PM »
Everyone's racist.
What are you talking about?

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And why just your neighbor?  Why not someone from across town?  Across state?  The world?  Why should we care about the people living within 500 feet vs people living far away?
Um, because most people aren't financially able to do anything about those people. If you consider the world your neighbor and you can feed and educate them all, then fucking go for it.
I was trying to be realistic but apparently you want to be an idealist that hasn't personally accomplished anything himself. Unless you're housing orphans or feeding a village in Africa that we don't know about?

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Fear was keeping me out of ghettos, not the south.
Ok.. well I was referring to the South in general. Why would you go to the ghetto? And by ghetto - I'm literally referring to government housing.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #94 on: September 30, 2016, 02:10:12 PM »
Everyone's racist.

Everyone has racist thoughts and impulses, don't act on them.

Quote
And why just your neighbor?  Why not someone from across town?  Across state?  The world?  Why should we care about the people living within 500 feet vs people living far away?

My interpretation of Rooster's advice is to proceed simply. Don't try and solve the whole problem at once, but start with the obvious steps you can take in the everyday reality you live in. A wise person once said, "People overestimate what they can do in a year and underestimate what they can do in a decade."

« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 03:13:22 PM by Rama Set »
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #95 on: September 30, 2016, 02:24:17 PM »
Everyone's racist.
What are you talking about?
Implicit bias from society.  I see a black man and my first reaction is fear.  No other reason than "he looks scary".  Everyone has such things about some race.  It's simply due to society implanting these ideas in our heads. 

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And why just your neighbor?  Why not someone from across town?  Across state?  The world?  Why should we care about the people living within 500 feet vs people living far away?
Um, because most people aren't financially able to do anything about those people. If you consider the world your neighbor and you can feed and educate them all, then fucking go for it.
I was trying to be realistic but apparently you want to be an idealist that hasn't personally accomplished anything himself. Unless you're housing orphans or feeding a village in Africa that we don't know about?
No, I mean, why them and not someone else.  Let's say you can help one person.  What makes them so special?  Just because they live next to you?  If that's the case then it's out of your own self interest, isn't it?  By being good/nice/helping to them, they either accept you in some social circle or help/be good to you back.

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Fear was keeping me out of ghettos, not the south.
Ok.. well I was referring to the South in general. Why would you go to the ghetto? And by ghetto - I'm literally referring to government housing.
I dunno.  Same reason I might go to Alabama?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline rooster

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #96 on: September 30, 2016, 03:02:52 PM »
Implicit bias from society.  I see a black man and my first reaction is fear.  No other reason than "he looks scary".  Everyone has such things about some race.  It's simply due to society implanting these ideas in our heads.
Please see the definition of racism. If you literally think you're superior to a black person simply because of their skin, then yes, you're racist.
If you're scared of a skulking black dude in a hoodie on an urban street in the middle of the night - then you're just protecting yourself. I'd be scared of a white dude in the same situation.

If you're literally scared of every black person you encounter then that might be a you thing and not an everybody thing.

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No, I mean, why them and not someone else.  Let's say you can help one person.  What makes them so special?  Just because they live next to you?  If that's the case then it's out of your own self interest, isn't it?  By being good/nice/helping to them, they either accept you in some social circle or help/be good to you back.
You're taking "neighbor" too literally. Anyone that you personally know you can help. For most people, that's gonna be someone who lives near you geographically because you actually interact with them and would know when/if they need help. It could be your coworkers, someone you see having car troubles on the side of the road, or a woman at the grocery store (ie the people around you).

Which is why I've repeatedly backed this up by saying if you are able to help out people across the world then go for it.
I can't even fathom why you're arguing against doing small acts of kindness and treating people with respect on a daily basis. I'm not arguing against doing grand things, I'm simply saying that you should at least strive to be a good person to the people around you.

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I dunno.  Same reason I might go to Alabama?
You do know the Smoky Mountains are fucking gorgeous right? And there's a ton of historical and just plain beautiful landmarks in the South, plus the food here is bomb af. We have New Orleans, Savannah GA, Gatlinburg TN, Disney World, the Appalachian Trail, etc. People come from all over the world to see the South. Not to mention, people from out of town honestly do say how nice everyone is here. But none of these things will ever take you to government housing.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 04:25:07 PM by rooster »

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Offline Luke 22:35-38

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #97 on: September 30, 2016, 10:18:56 PM »
If you want to talk about who is traditionally racists its the democrats. Do you know who opposed the freedom of slaves? The democrats. Do you know who started the KKK? A democrat. The people who opposed women's right to vote were democrats.
You are correct.
And now they aren't.  Now the group advocating progressiveness are Democrats.
Explain that one.

You said "traditionally" first of all and second progressivism has turn racist with things like black lives matter.
Yes.  And also mostly southern US people.  But fair enough.  "Racism can be found in more common in the Souther US amoung whites who are also members or supporters of the current Republican Party."
Better?

As for BLM...
Not the place to talk about it.


Yes it is if you're willing to talk about redneck southern hillbillies as racist.

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Here you go.

https://www.occupycorporatism.com/obamas-lawyers-officially-admit-birth-certificate-is-fake/
Oh god!  Wow, its been blown wide open.  The truth revealed!  I'm sure all the politicians are racing on this news!

Oh wait, 404.
Did you, you know, click the link before posting?

Sorry. Sometimes I get lazy and read what the search engine comes up with. Here's one that actually works.

http://www.govtslaves.info/obamas-lawyers-officially-admit-birth-certificate-fake/

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In order to be president both of your parents must be naturally born citizens.
No.  My son could be president.  His mother is Norwegian.

I found out that in this case you're right. If someone was born on US soul then he's a natural born citizen. However if he's born abroad then both of his parents must be natural born citizens. As a side note I was born abroad and my parents are natural born. However this doesn't negate the birth certificate issue.

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Obama has expressed in various but subtle ways that he is indeed a Muslim.
Right.




So, back on target, anyone think the debate mattered?

I'm on the fence on this one. Trump said some things that can turn a lot of would be voters off like stop and frisk and no fly no buy.
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth"

Scripture, science, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion. Can dumb luck create a smart brain?

Please PM me to explain sunsets.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #98 on: October 01, 2016, 12:57:27 AM »
Someone debunking the forged birth certificate myth.

www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/29/expert-says-obamas-birth-certificate-legit.amp.html?client=safari

Let the blog wars begin!
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 26th September - 1st Presidential Debate
« Reply #99 on: October 01, 2016, 05:50:40 AM »
Implicit bias from society.  I see a black man and my first reaction is fear.  No other reason than "he looks scary".  Everyone has such things about some race.  It's simply due to society implanting these ideas in our heads.
Please see the definition of racism. If you literally think you're superior to a black person simply because of their skin, then yes, you're racist.
If you're scared of a skulking black dude in a hoodie on an urban street in the middle of the night - then you're just protecting yourself. I'd be scared of a white dude in the same situation.

If you're literally scared of every black person you encounter then that might be a you thing and not an everybody thing.
I'm mostly referring to the bias like I see a black man and immediately watch them closely or will more quickly assume they're up to something wrong vs a white man or even a woman.  Less superior and more less innocent or negative assumptions.


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No, I mean, why them and not someone else.  Let's say you can help one person.  What makes them so special?  Just because they live next to you?  If that's the case then it's out of your own self interest, isn't it?  By being good/nice/helping to them, they either accept you in some social circle or help/be good to you back.
You're taking "neighbor" too literally. Anyone that you personally know you can help. For most people, that's gonna be someone who lives near you geographically because you actually interact with them and would know when/if they need help. It could be your coworkers, someone you see having car troubles on the side of the road, or a woman at the grocery store (ie the people around you).

Which is why I've repeatedly backed this up by saying if you are able to help out people across the world then go for it.
I can't even fathom why you're arguing against doing small acts of kindness and treating people with respect on a daily basis. I'm not arguing against doing grand things, I'm simply saying that you should at least strive to be a good person to the people around you.
Yeah, this was a really dick thing for me to say and argue.  I was snapping at everyone.  Lack of good sleep over long periods of time does that to me.  So, sorry for being a dick.  You're right, of course.


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I dunno.  Same reason I might go to Alabama?
You do know the Smoky Mountains are fucking gorgeous right? And there's a ton of historical and just plain beautiful landmarks in the South, plus the food here is bomb af. We have New Orleans, Savannah GA, Gatlinburg TN, Disney World, the Appalachian Trail, etc. People come from all over the world to see the South. Not to mention, people from out of town honestly do say how nice everyone is here. But none of these things will ever take you to government housing.
I'm not one for nature, personally.  Plus, now that I live in Norway, I've got nature all over.  I'm in a "technology city" and it's still got enough forest around it to get lost for days in.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.