[Rushy]

I think religion is simply an early form of government, and prayer is so that the governed are reminding themselves who their governor is. If you remind yourself multiple times a day your all-seeing overlord is watching and judging you, you're less likely to deviate from their guidance, rather than a weekly or monthly sort of thing.

It's similar to why children overall tend to behave a bit better as Christmas approaches. Santa, being a gift-giving all-seeing overlord, will withhold his reward if you are naughty. Of course kids only really think about that during Christmas vacation, so it has no impact on their behavior during the other 51 weeks of the year. Imagine if kids had to pray/confess to Santa multiple times a day, always reminding themselves Santa is making his list and checking it twice.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I think that Rush may have a point here. Although I am a religious man, I don't doubt that religion is a form of govt. @ the very least, its been used as that. Oscar quoted Marx @ some length on how religion was used by the haves over the have-nots. I don't have that quote ready to hand, but it was a good one. In fact, the oft said statement 'religion is the opiate of the masses' was never actually said in so many words, I don't think. But Marx's (& the Communist thinkers after him) attitude on religion, to my understanding (as I read Mao, @ any rate) was that it was given to the masses to distract them from bettering themselves here, by making them believe in a deferred betterment, if you will. Of course, these men couldn't have seen the rise of Liberation Theology or the Social Gospel. Were Marx alive today, he might view religion very differently. Oscar, feel free to join in. You know your Marx better than I do, which is a bit embarrassing, since I'm the card-carrying Communist, but hey, we all have our

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

strengths. Mine are religion & Renaissance British History. Still catching up on Marx. I became a Communist because I liked Mao. A bit backward, I know. Anyway, find that quote if you can, Oscar. Thanks.

[rooster]

I became a Communist because I liked Mao.

You became a Communist because you liked the worst person to ever happen to Chinese history? Are you fucking kidding me?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

That depends on how you look @ Mao. He did a great deal of good for China. He did a great deal of bad for China. Had he died in 1950, he'd be a Saint. 1957, a hero. 1966, a flawed but still decent man. He had the misfortune of living too long. But he made China what it is today. W/o him, it would still be a backward shithole, batted around by the British, French, & Russians.

[Rushy]

Are you fucking kidding me?

[rooster]

That depends on how you look @ Mao. He did a great deal of good for China. He did a great deal of bad for China. Had he died in 1950, he'd be a Saint. 1957, a hero. 1966, a flawed but still decent man. He had the misfortune of living too long. But he made China what it is today. W/o him, it would still be a backward shithole, batted around by the British, French, & Russians.

What kind of historian are you?! There's no such thing as "backward". Going by that line of thought you think we're all on one line of progression rather than different cultures and versions of progression. If you mean they wouldn't be as industrialized - maybe. But you can't know that for sure. There may have been a decent leader who didn't force people into starvation and communal living. Most of their "progression" came after his death as he seriously fucked over China.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Given that the alternative to Chairman Mao was Chiang Kai-shek, I'm not sure what you're complaining about. I won't dispute that Mao became corrupt in later yrs (anyone who takes off the red glasses can see that), but the Generalissimo started as such. Given the choice between the two,...

[Thork]

Chairman Mao only had one testicle. This is a fact unlike the widely spread falsehood that Hitler did.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Actually, he had 2, but according to his dr's personal memoirs, 1 was undescended.

[spank86]

In fact, the oft said statement 'religion is the opiate of the masses' was never actually said in so many words, I don't think.

Of course not, Marx was German.

It's a translation.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I think I recall the essay. It was 'Analysis of the Classes in Chinese Society'. I agree, Mao's earliest work was his best. I still maintain that I'm a Maoist, but that's a subject for another thread. I wish I had more time for Marx, Lenin, & more Mao. But I'm finally starting work on my dissertation, & that's going to take all of my time for reading & research.

[Roundy]

(like The Beatles, Mao's earlier work was his best)

That's a bold assertion, that the Beatles' earlier work was their best.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I'll agree that Mao's early work was his best, but I always thought Sergeant Pepper's was the Beatles' best, 1967.

[Roundy]

I'll agree that Mao's early work was his best, but I always thought Sergeant Pepper's was the Beatles' best, 1967.

We agree on something.  I always felt they never really hit their stride until Revolver.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I'm inclined to agree, Roundy. I always thought they went through a maturation period that improved their work.

[Roundy]

That's a bold assertion, that the Beatles' earlier work was their best.

Really? I thought it was a "safe" opinion.

Oh, come on.  Are you trolling?

Most people would name either Sgt Peppers, The White Album, or Revolver as their favorite Beatles album.

Their early stuff was bubblegum.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Interestingly, both essays were 1st (the one I mentioned) & 2nd (the one you mentioned) in The Selected Works of Chairman Mao in 5 Volumes, volume 1. As an interesting aside, I've got vol. 5, which is hard to obtain today, as only a few were printed before his death. Today you can only get 4.