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Messages - AATW

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3721
Flat Earth Theory / Re: The ultimate proof that the Earth is ROUND...
« on: April 14, 2018, 09:43:51 AM »
Where did the helicopter go, given that the lake was clearly calm with no significant waves?

And does the fact that he starts the video by claiming that Hawking died years ago not ring any alarm bells about the bloke's sanity?

3722
I've dealt with waves in this thread

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9338.msg145931#msg145931

Tom derailed it by talking about the horizon, but the main point of the thread was to show that unless the waves are higher than the observer they would not occlude objects as shown in that video.

3723
Flat Earth Theory / Re: The ultimate proof that the Earth is ROUND...
« on: April 14, 2018, 08:36:55 AM »
What a horrible video, Tom.
Massively disrespectful of Stephen Hawking
There's an interview here with someone who actually knows what they're talking about on ALS
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stephen-hawking-als/

The video starts with the assertion that Stephen Hawking died years ago and was replaced...I just have no idea why anyone would have done that. That would had to have happened way before Hawking even became famous and his life is so well documented that it is a completely ridiculous claim. That right there should tell you this bloke is off the charts crazy and the rest of his opinions should be regarded with some suspicion.

I did watch most of the video so I could sensibly respond.

Just before 9 minutes he says something about the laser going into space because of the angle of it - interesting how selectively you guys use perspective which is clearly the explanation here.

10 minutes he draws the laser at a ridiculous angle. You can't see that on the video and even if he's claiming the laser is not parallel to the ground the angle can't be anywhere near that steep to only appear 6 feet above the boat at 3 miles.

15 minutes he does some straw manning about Eratosthenes being called the best scientist ever because he was getting the results that "they" wanted.
Who are "they"? And why would "they" want any particular result? We're talking about thousands of years ago. Why would "they" want to hide the true shape of the earth?

So where did the helicopter go? He says how ridiculous it is that it would be behind a hill of water but provides no alternative explanation. Please don't say waves, the lake was clearly very calm. At 24 minutes he states that water doesn't curve and doesn't hide helicopters. He declares it as ludicrous but offers no other explanation

At 25 minutes he talks says that when people lie they have a reason but provides no theory as to why scientists would be lying about this.
He says observations show earth to be the centre of things with no examples of observations that do.

He then berates a certain scientist for doing no experiments. That reminds me of someone...


In brief, it's the standard flat earth response to being proved wrong. Shout fake at anything which shows you to be wrong.
Summed up by this Wiki page.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Place_of_the_Conspiracy_in_FET

Quote
P1) If personally unverifiable evidence contradicts an obvious truth then the evidence is fabricated
P2) The Flat Earth is an obvious truth

Case closed. The initial video proves a globe earth ergo it must be fake. No explanation required. Lazy...

3724
Flat Earth Theory / Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« on: April 13, 2018, 09:58:05 AM »
Now I understand what you are saying.

Yes, the airport is built on higher land a couple of miles away. The Nile only falls a foot.
Nope.

http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/Luxor-8089754/

Just to be clear. What you're claiming is that for the entire length of the Nile, which Google reckons is 6,853km, the elevation only changes by 1 foot.
So nowhere the Nile flows through can be higher than that, unless the Nile is in a trench or canyon.
I'd be interested to know how you think water would flow at all were that the case.

3725
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Radii of Certain Circles of Latitude
« on: April 13, 2018, 09:05:03 AM »

Photos can be manipulated to show what the photographer wants. Take a step back, be too close or take a photo from a slight angle, and it can be manipulated. The horizon always meets the eye level, it was proved in the 1800s. Honestly, its embarrassing how your blind Faith in 'science' will not let you see the forest for the trees.

He's right. This experiment is not carefully calibrated or controlled. A slight angle with that experiment can cause issues. It is just one guy holding a camera in one hand and his water device in the other. It's a bad experiment.

The whole point was to do it yourself.
Can anyone manipulate your own expetriment but you?
Bear in mind that others can do the same and see if you are telling the truth.
Author of the video also knew it.

Get transparent hula-hoop (or hose), fill it with painted liquid and go hiking.
It will be good for your health.

 :D Exactly!

Tom has been shown 2 experiments which prove conclusively that the assertion that "the horizon always rises to eye level" is incorrect.
The first is a cheap experiment anyone can do at almost no cost, the second uses professional equipment - they both give the same result which gives confidence in the first experiment and both match the theory of what you'd expect to observe on a globe.

Tom is writing a chapter on "The Importance of Empiricism ( https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=8288.0 ) yet his response to being proven wrong by empirical experiments is
"AM NOT!"
A more rational response from a so called empiricist would be to go out and repeat the experiment or if he disputes the validity of the experiments he could devise his own and publish the results for review. The fact he repeatedly refuses to do so is telling...

3726
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: satellite hoax
« on: April 13, 2018, 08:29:45 AM »
I wonder how heavy a dome made of sapphire would be. Is there any way that material (or any material we know about) is strong enough to be that big and not fall apart?
Beyond my abilities to work that out but I suspect not.

3727
You say he's not a Dr, yet can provide no proof whatsoever to back up those claims. We can at least point to his grave, what have you got?
How are you expecting anyone to prove a negative?
Rowbotham proclaiming himself a doctor, him putting it on his gravestone and other people calling him a doctor is not proof he was one.
Do you think Dr Dre has a PHd?

He might well have just claimed to be a doctor in order to give credence to his theories.
If you claim he really was a doctor then it shouldn't be hard to look at records from the time to establish where he studied, from looking at previous debates on here about this it seems no records of him studying where he claimed to have been found. Now, that doesn't prove he's a charlatan, from what I've read the searches were not exhaustive, but it doesn't prove he was a doctor either.

Even if he was a doctor, was his doctorate in a subject which gives him any authority in the scientific fields he was discussing?
Honestly, I don't care whether he was a doctor or not. All modern science shows Rowbotham to be wrong.
There is no flat earth map or model which in any way works and matches observations. The globe earth has been observed.

Quote
There are none so blind as those who cannot see.
Finally, you've written something I agree with...

3728
Flat Earth Theory / Re: The distance to sunset
« on: April 13, 2018, 08:04:23 AM »
I asked some of these questions a while back in this thread

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=8380.0

Quote
What in the FE model powers the sun and keeps it shining? And if it is circling above the flat earth then what keeps it in the sky? Why doesn't it fall on us? I see that seasons are explained by the circular motion changing so it is a tighter circle in summer and bigger circle in winter. What causes the sun to move between these orbits and what makes it speed up in winter and slow down in summer as it would have to as the circumference of the circle changes, otherwise the day / night cycle would change length

One thing I didn't mention is that the sun and moon (not sure if it's both) also change altitude which is said to cause the phases of the moon so you'd need some quite considerable force to cause that too.

There's a few pages on that thread but none of the questions above are answered as far as I remember because they don't know, they just rationalise all this in a desperate attempt to make their model work, but it raises far more questions than it answers.

3729
Flat Earth Theory / Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« on: April 12, 2018, 10:23:58 PM »
Not sure how it's not contributing. All I was asked is why Luxor airport is higher in elevation. Logic would dictate it was built on higher land.
Well yeah. That's the point. And the Nile flows nearby and isn't in a massive ditch. So clearly the Nile doesn't just drop 1 foot along its whole length.
Glad we've finally agreed that.
Confused here. Are you saying the Nile flows through Luxor airport?

Within a couple of miles.



Are you claiming that the airport is 700 feet above the Nile a couple of miles away? Where is your evidence if so?

3730
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Radii of Certain Circles of Latitude
« on: April 12, 2018, 10:04:25 PM »
He's right. This experiment is not carefully calibrated or controlled. A slight angle with that experiment can cause issues. It is just one guy holding a camera in one hand and his water device in the other. It's a bad experiment.
The experiment itself is fine. The only issue with the video of the experiment is the camera is not on a tripod. The result is still pretty clear but to show that even more clearly I posted stills from parts of the video where the level in the two tubes is clearly the same and thus you can easily determine whether the horizon is at or above or below that level. The result is clear, it's at eye level at sea level, below eye level at altitude and the higher the altitude the more below eye level it is, exactly as expected.
Those photos are not manipulated, they are simply stills from the video.

I see you have once again ignored the other experiment which was posted in that thread which used professional equipment and gave the exact same result.

Rather than just shouting "AM NOT!" every time you're shown to be wrong why not do your own experiment? The one shown would cost you virtually nothing and your issue with it seems to be mostly the camera angle. I've responded to that but fine, do your own experiment then.
If you dispute the findings of those experiments then repeat them yourself, or devise your own experiment to measure the dip of the horizon below eye level (or lack thereof) at different altitudes and post your findings so we can review them.
You have been shown empirical results which show you to be wrong. You claim to be an empiricist, take some empirical measurements.

3731
Flat Earth Theory / Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« on: April 12, 2018, 09:13:31 PM »
Not sure how it's not contributing. All I was asked is why Luxor airport is higher in elevation. Logic would dictate it was built on higher land.
Well yeah. That's the point. And the Nile flows nearby and isn't in a massive ditch. So clearly the Nile doesn't just drop 1 foot along its whole length.
Glad we've finally agreed that.

3732
The Wiki says it's because of perspective.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Shifting_Constellations

Same way they explain sunset. Wrongly, obviously, in both cases. On a flat earth the sun would be visible 24 hours a day and all stars not close to the horizon (which could be occluded by closer hills, for example, would be visible from everywhere. If Polaris is straight above the north pole then you'd be able to see it from everywhere. You can't, because the earth isn't flat.
Hi AllAround, I think you missed my point. I know the wiki explains that perspective is the reason that at certain latitudes Polaris ceases to be visible. I'm looking for an explanation or evidence from Flat Earth people to support the other claim from Rowbotham that "polaris has been seen from as far south as Capricorn". I want to know what evidence they have to support this claim, and if it is true why has no-one yet photographed it. Not seen any answers yet.
Right. Well as Westprog said if you're looking for consistency then you're going to be disappointed.
Far as I understand you can't see Polaris below 1 degree south of the equator. If Rowbowtham claims that it has been seen as far south as  as that then he is wrong.
But then, he's wrong about pretty much everything. When he is shown to be conclusively wrong like with things like this or the risible claim that the moon is translucent it's ignored and for some reason Flat Earthers never seem to let these obvious falsehoods cast any doubt on the things they so treat as gospel. A more rational response would be to think "well...if he's wrong about this then maybe he's not right about these other things."

3733
The Wiki says it's because of perspective.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Shifting_Constellations

Same way they explain sunset. Wrongly, obviously, in both cases. On a flat earth the sun would be visible 24 hours a day and all stars not close to the horizon (which could be occluded by closer hills, for example, would be visible from everywhere. If Polaris is straight above the north pole then you'd be able to see it from everywhere. You can't, because the earth isn't flat.

3734
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: satellite hoax
« on: April 12, 2018, 01:33:52 PM »
Yeah. Who needs modern science when we have 2000 year old documents which are clearly not written to be scientific texts?

3735
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Speed of The Sun
« on: April 12, 2018, 11:50:47 AM »
Dr Rowbotham has measured the distance already.
You realise that his experiment had the sun 400 miles south of London, somewhere directly over France, right?
Why do you think it's always so sunny there?

Could you measure the speed of the sun by radar by the way? No idea if that would work.

3736
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Elon Musk
« on: April 12, 2018, 08:24:35 AM »
That Tesla in space is a fake, it's nothing more than CGI. You have to be seriously brainwashed to believe there's a Tesla in orbit.

Prove it, come on. We're not the ones brainwashed here. You are. You can't go spouting random claims without evidence.

The evidence is that it shows something which proves something which Parallax doesn't want to believe. Hence it must be faked. That's the FE movement in a nutshell

It's pretty much summed up on this Wiki page (which even Pete admitted is strange and he would look into, it's still there though)

https://wiki.tfes.org/Place_of_the_Conspiracy_in_FET

Quote
P1) If personally unverifiable evidence contradicts an  obvious truth then the evidence is fabricated
   
P2) The Flat Earth is an obvious truth

So if you declare the flat earth an obvious truth - quite what the basis is for declaring it as such is unexplained - then you don't need to provide any evidence to show that anything which contradicts that.
This is not the reasoning of a "free thinker" or an "empiricist", it's just flat our denial.

If I believe all swans to be white and then I see a black swan then the rational response is to modify my belief about the colour of swans.
The denialist response as we see repeatedly on here is just to claim the black swan is fake with no basis so we don't have to alter our beliefs one bit.
It's not rational but it's the only way to cling to flat earth belief.

3737
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Theories is all we have
« on: April 10, 2018, 09:34:28 PM »
Having "Dr" before your name doesn't mean you are always right or better than someone who is "just" a blogger.
Well, there's a good possibility that he was never a doctor anyway and just claimed to be because he thought it added some credibility to his ridiculous arguments.
Probably worked quite well back in the day when doctors would have been more respected than they are now.
Bit sad that people are still falling for it now though.

3738
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Theories is all we have
« on: April 10, 2018, 08:59:28 PM »
Mr Rowbowtham or all of modern science?
Yes, it is a real head-scratcher, that one.
The globe earth has been observed. This is not a theory or matter of debate.

3739
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Theories is all we have
« on: April 10, 2018, 07:51:33 PM »
We don't know if it's flat, or round, we simply don't know. We are all assuming
See, this is where I'm going to disagree.
The earth has been observed from space, many humans have witnessed it.
We have GPS and satellite TV which prove that we have launched things into orbit. These things demonstrably work
The round earth model works, there is no flat earth model which does.
There are some debates in science right now, this isn't one and hasn't been for thousands of years.

3740
Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Electromagnetic Accelerator
« on: April 10, 2018, 07:39:17 PM »
The rays are curving upwards, and so the last rays may miss the observer but hit the top of the mountain.

Is this your new explanation for clouds lit from below and shadows of mountains cast upwards?
Because before you said it was "perspective" and stuck to that despite my repeated explanations that shadow angle does not change because of perspective.
This answer is marginally better. Probably creates a whole heap of other problems though.

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