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Messages - Tom Bishop

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8621
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Membership suggestion
« on: July 22, 2014, 02:38:31 PM »
Just out of curiosity, what exactly are "all the Society's Requirements" that need to be fulfilled in order to be granted membership?

A working computer with at least 64MB of RAM, 233 Mhz Processor, 1.5 GB Disk Space, and 28.8k Modem with internet access.

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Also, just what "Rights and Privileges" are attached?

Members of The Flat Earth Society are granted the privilege of announcing to friends, family, and all who can hear that they are now a standing member of an exclusive group of intellectuals who believe that the earth is flat.

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And what's wrong with this one:

Everything.

8622
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Membership suggestion
« on: July 22, 2014, 02:59:33 AM »
Here is a picture to sway the audience:



And a quote! --

"We are more gullible and superstitious today than we were in the Middle Ages, and an example of modern credulity is the widespread belief that the Earth is round.  The average man can advance not a single reason for thinking that the Earth is round.  He merely swallows this theory because there is something about it that appeals to the twentieth century mentality."

- George Bernard Shaw
in Everybody's Political What's What (1944)


8623
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Membership suggestion
« on: July 22, 2014, 01:47:39 AM »
The certificate should be in an Old English font and read something in line with the following:


The Flat Earth Society

By the Authority and Approval of the Zetetic Council

Be it known on this day of ___________ that


_______________________________

Being of Sound Mind and Moral Character,
Having fulfilled all the Society's Requirements
And having Sworn Solemnly to Combat
the Globularist Hersey and all its Dupes and Hirelings
Has been admitted Full Membership and Official Standing in

The Flat Earth Society
 
With all the Rights and Privileges that attach thereto

SOCIETY SEAL                             COUNCIL SIGNATURES

8624
Flat Earth Community / Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« on: July 21, 2014, 03:47:49 PM »
Except that when I zoom into the photo I can see soft foot prints in the dirt around the back of the rover, but no tire tracks leaving behind it. At no point in any of the Apollo recordings do they lift up the rover. The astronauts were only actually walking on the moon for a short time, and it is all well documented.

8625
Flat Earth Community / Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« on: July 21, 2014, 02:38:59 PM »
If you brought up his work in response you believe that this subject has, or may have, been busted.

Did you have some hope that you could provide definitive evidence of a conspiracy after Dr. Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy destroyed all previous attempts.

If so, document it, research whether Phil Plait or Myth Busters already busted it, and then submit it to both.

I looked, and didn't find where it was busted.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
I can't find where this subject has been busted by children's book author Phil Plait. Kindly find a source for your nonsense.

No sources were given to my query. So it seems the burden to bust it is on you.

8626
Flat Earth Community / Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« on: July 21, 2014, 02:19:10 PM »
In response to the subject of missing tracks it was stated that the children's author Phil Plat has destroyed all moon landing hoax allegations. It is implied "Phil Plat busted all of this already".

If so, then it should be easy to look at his work which addresses the subject of missing tracks.

If not, and his analysis was incomplete, the burden is on Gulliver and others to bust it.

8627
Flat Earth Community / Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« on: July 21, 2014, 12:54:03 PM »
I don't see where the subject has been busted. Are you saying that this children's author may have busted it?

Real strong argument there.
No, I am not saying, and have not said, that "this children's author" may have busted it. Are you saying that a text written at a child's level cannot show that you're wrong about some fact? Are you saying that if I refer to such an author that everything he (or she) has written is not a real strong argument? Do I need to remind you of the "ad hominem" fallacy yet again?

Well, then if this subject has not been busted it looks like you have some work to do.

8628
Flat Earth Community / Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« on: July 21, 2014, 03:47:30 AM »
I don't see where the subject has been busted. Are you saying that this children's author may have busted it?

Real strong argument there.

8629
I've already shown via diagram that it's impossible for the moon to be in the sky with the sun, since the angles would need to be in excess of 0.5 degrees. A video showing the sun and moon in the sky simultaneously is dirt in your face.
Would you care to provide such a video?  I don't recall seeing the sun in the OP video.

I'm referring to the video you posted.

8630
Flat Earth Community / Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« on: July 21, 2014, 02:25:26 AM »
Except that we often provide evidence to back the allegations of fraud.
Just as you did with the South Pole fraud that you now champion as wrong?

How is your record of providing innuendo even come close to evidence of any fraud?

I don't know what you're talking about in regards to the South Pole.

There is plenty of evidence of fraud. Consider the missing Lunar Rover tracks, for instance.

The enlightened see it for what it is: evidence of a hoax. The brainwashed call it "the astronauts carried the Lunar Rover around with them on the moon rather than driving it".
You now content that the South Pole has been discovered after years of claiming fraud covers up the circumferential nature of the SP. You presented evidence of that fraud.

You're also on record that the movie Apollo 18 was a documentary with its moonbuggy. Now you want to argue that the Lunar Landings are a hoax? Really?

Did you have some hope that you could provide definitive evidence of a conspiracy after Dr. Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy destroyed all previous attempts.

If so, document it, research whether Phil Plait or Myth Busters already busted it, and then submit it to both.

I can't find where this subject has been busted by children's book author Phil Plait. Kindly find a source for your nonsense.

There is plenty of evidence of fraud. Consider the missing Lunar Rover tracks, for instance.

That is not evidence.
You stated that images can't be presented as a proof in this forum.

Please, show only trustable evidence.

When have I stated that?

8631
I've already shown via diagram that it's impossible for the moon to be in the sky with the sun, since the angles would need to be in excess of 0.5 degrees. A video showing the sun and moon in the sky simultaneously is dirt in your face.

8632
Flat Earth Projects / Re: Proposal to open official membership
« on: July 21, 2014, 02:12:13 AM »
I support this.

8633
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« on: July 20, 2014, 11:39:07 AM »
The Queen of England is hardly a running joke. She is one of the wealthiest people on the planet and hides her wealth behind the Bank of England nominees. She has the power to dissolve parliament, is head of our armed forces and has the power of veto over any law parliament wishes to pass. Lets not make Daniel quite that important.

I just don't see why he should be figurehead any more? He doesn't do anything to warrant it. We don't need him.

Daniel owns the site, which is #1 in Google. That is equivalent to your analogy of the queen's wealth making her important and deserving.

We are already enemies with virtually every country on earth and you want us to go off on an island somewhere to make our own competing country with the name of England. That seems less desirable than joining forces with England to make her a better country.

It doesn't matter if Daniel is around or not. The leaders of the Flat Earth Society will make themselves apparent. Respect is earned, not granted with a title. I doubt he cares to object to the community projects and things we want to organize.

8634
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« on: July 20, 2014, 11:10:34 AM »
I just don't think we need him. He doesn't offer much.

Neither does the Queen of England. If Daniel wants to be the Queen of England, he can be Queen. That's fine in my book.

As long as Parliament can do what needs to get done, it doesn't matter if the Queen is an absent ruler. Everyone knows she's a running joke. If Daniel doesn't want to be a running joke then he should try hard not to be a figurehead like the Queen is. The choice of being a figurehead or a leader is entirely up to him.

8635
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« on: July 20, 2014, 10:49:23 AM »
I just don't see the point. Daniel isn't going to change. He'll continue to be ever-absent. If he is in any way an obstacle after a re-unification, it is pointless to go back. Hey, we aren't doing so bad. We are killing them at social media and with a few additional changes such as membership and T-shirts, we'll get some good momentum going. Its Daniel that has the problem right now. Not us. Lets see what if anything he is willing to concede before we give away the independence we worked so hard to achieve.

If he is absent then he won't prevent the Council from doing what needs to get done.

8636
Doesn't Daniel run the society? If he supersedes the Zetetic council's rulings and you guys don't control the forum, what are you doing exactly? All the while, you are attempting to patch things up with Daniel and reintegrate the two divisions, but the Zetetic Council is trying to do Daniel's job. Is this not a conflict?

I'm all for combining the two groups and living in harmony, but I think some people need to get some perspective on who is doing what and how much of a backseat you guys will be taking if Daniel does rule once again.

We are suggesting to Daniel that he keeps doing what he has been doing. What the Council wants to do and what Daniel want to do have very little to do with each other. I doubt that he cares if we organize projects to improve the wiki, create a video, do a reddit AMA, start on an annotated version of Earth Not a Globe, or any of the other things that have been mentioned we would like to work on.

If Daniel wants to get involved in discussions, projects, display leadership, more power to him. I suggested opening up the Zetetic Council forum to official members so that there can be in depth discussion on these matters, flesh ideas out, and people would be more motivated to help.

8637
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« on: July 20, 2014, 02:44:36 AM »
That sounds good to me.We should go to them with what pp wrote.

8638
Flat Earth Projects / Re: FES Constitution, First Draft
« on: July 20, 2014, 02:26:45 AM »
I like it. What do you think about my suggestion in the other thread about giving official Flat Earth Society members standing in the Zetetic Council forum upon membership? While official members wouldn't be able to vote, they can comment and give opinions to the Council. It can portray that the society is one and all members have a stake.

8639
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« on: July 20, 2014, 01:08:23 AM »
And it's all we're ever going to get, at best.  I don't know why you guys are talking about officially making Daniel a "figurehead," let alone his resignation.  Why don't you ask for a nice foot rub from him while you're at it?  Getting him to agree to turn over technical control will be tough enough.

I'm fine with keeping Daniel where he's at, to continue doing what he has been doing.

He just needs to allow us to do our thing. If Daniel becomes a figurehead that's his own prerogative. If he does nothing with the society, disappears for months at a time, checks in now and then for the sake of appearances, then he is a figurehead. If he gives the society the attention it needs and leads projects, events, participates in discussions, well, then he's a leader. What he is and is not can be entirely up to him. He just cannot limit growth of the society with his own personal inactions.

That is a compromise I am willing to take, and which I believe is fair for all.

8640
Flat Earth Projects / Re: Constructing a constitution
« on: July 19, 2014, 11:11:05 PM »
Sounds good to me. I hesitate to call RET a 'hoax', though. Not all theories give equal weight to the Conspiracy. I'll make a separate thread where we can type up something more official.

Hoax doesn't necessarily imply Conspiracy. It can also imply ignorance.

Homeopathy can be called a hoax theory, for example. It's an elaborate theory that water holds memory. If I stated that Homeopathy is a hoax, I am not implying that Homeopaths are deliberately conspiring to give false information. It could also be that it's a fake or made up theory and that its practitioners are ignorant. It's a hoax medicine because it is a made up fake theory and does not have proper supporting evidence.

Even so, in my experience the FET theories which downplays the Conspiracy still have NASA hoaxing something in regards to the world. For example, I regularly express the belief that NASA is largely ignorant of the shape of world, and is running a fake space agency created in the 60's to put man on the moon and establish America's militaristic dominance of space (ICBMs, etc). They don't actually have the technology to go into space. But, although they are not going into space, they still need to fake a lot of data about the earth to continue on with the ruse.  That means stuff like faking the moon landing and running high altitude pictures through a fisheye lens to make it appear that a craft is higher than it really is.

I don't believe it can be argued that everything NASA does can simply be reinterpreted under the Flat Earth model. It would need to be argued that they actually visited the moon, but were mistaken about the distance to the moon, its size, what they saw from it, and that the RE orbital mechanics necessary just happened to work, which I just don't see happening. Some level of deception must exist.

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