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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11360 on: May 30, 2024, 10:00:41 PM »
The number of moderates that were deciding who to vote for based entirely on the outcome of a porn star payoff trial is precisely zero. If you were voting for Trump, the outcome of the trial didn't matter. If you weren't voting for Trump, the outcome of the trial didn't matter.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11361 on: May 31, 2024, 04:58:50 AM »
It is correct that for Biden and Trump supporters that this isn't going to move the needle for them.

However, there is a segment of the population who does not vote. If the narrative is that these are cooked trials and overzealous persecution they will be more inclined to vote for Trump. America loves underdogs and martyrs. All of this is basically free publicity for Trump at this point. The more felonies they charge him with and the more over the top this looks, the better it will be for his campaign.

IMO this is going too slow and they need to hurry up and jail him so this becomes the biggest international news story on earth.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11362 on: May 31, 2024, 05:36:56 AM »
It is correct that for Biden and Trump supporters that this isn't going to move the needle for them.

However, there is a segment of the population who does not vote. If the narrative is that these are cooked trials and overzealous persecution they will be more inclined to vote for Trump. America loves underdogs and martyrs. All of this is basically free publicity for Trump at this point. The more felonies they charge him with and the more over the top this looks, the better it will be for his campaign.

IMO this is going too slow and they need to hurry up and jail him so this becomes the biggest international news story on earth.

Well, Trump himself is delaying most of his cases as much as possible so... Maybe ask him?
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11363 on: May 31, 2024, 06:34:14 AM »
lol, and right on cue here’s our friendly neighbourhood cult member to say what good news this is for Trump.
They’re nothing if not predictable.

And talking of predictable, I see Trump did his “it’s all rigged” schtick. And the cult members just lapped it all up.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11364 on: May 31, 2024, 08:00:28 AM »
The number of moderates that were deciding who to vote for based entirely on the outcome of a porn star payoff trial is precisely zero. If you were voting for Trump, the outcome of the trial didn't matter. If you weren't voting for Trump, the outcome of the trial didn't matter.
Not entirely. But the fact Trump is now a convicted felon isn’t going to make anyone reconsider? I’m not saying you’re wrong but it would be a bit weird if this wasn’t a factor for anyone
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11365 on: May 31, 2024, 10:17:28 AM »
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11366 on: May 31, 2024, 11:55:43 AM »
It would be different if it was one or two charges in a single case. Trump has multiple cases against him with 88 felony counts. Even little old ladies call it BS and unprecedented for the liberal government to prosecute opposing presidential candidates in this manner. The over the top prosecution overshadows any actual crime that occurred, so Trump wins.

In addition, the crimes described are meaningless to most people. They don't have anything substantial that people see as immediately bad and reprehensible. Overvaluing Mar-a-Lago, lol. If there is nothing substantially terrible that people can repeat at a water cooler with conviction and a straight face, it's a failure in narrative for the anti-trump.

For this case in specific, the general public is familiar with the concept of someone making settlements for claims made against them and do not readily see the illegality when hearing of this case.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 12:22:47 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11367 on: May 31, 2024, 12:15:04 PM »
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.
What makes you think that?  What evidence in the trial do you think would show Trump being innocent of all 34 counts that would have a different impact when read from a record?
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11368 on: May 31, 2024, 12:31:12 PM »
It would be different if it was one or two charges in a single case. In this case Trump has multiple cases against him with 88 felony counts. Even little old ladies call it BS and unprecedented for the liberal government to prosecute opposing presidential candidates in this manner. The over the top prosecution overshadows any actual crime that occurred, so Trump wins.

In addition, the crimes described are meaningless to most people. They don't have anything substantial that people see as immediately bad and reprehensible. Overvaluing Mar-a-Lago, lol. If there is nothing substantially terrible that people can repeat at a water cooler with conviction and a straight face, it's a failure in narrative for the anti-trump.

For this case in specific, the general public is familiar with the concept of someone making settlements for claims made against them and do not readily see the illegality when hearing of this case.



34 Felony counts.  For this one anyway.

Its weird how, for decades, we talk about corruption in politics and rich people but now the republicans are like "Oh no, Trump, a rich old politician and business man has never done any illegal things."  Like... >_> So every OTHER politician and rich person is breaking laws but not Trump?  Come on.


Also: Its not Hush Money if you do it publically.  Makes the whole point of "hush" kinda... not.  Like you literally show us a press conference in which the woman gets money to not go to trial.  How is that Hush? Do you know the defintiion of Hush?
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11369 on: May 31, 2024, 12:59:54 PM »
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.
What makes you think that?  What evidence in the trial do you think would show Trump being innocent of all 34 counts that would have a different impact when read from a record?
A. As written, the charges constitute, at most, misdemeanors.

II. What evidence? There is no evidence he committed a single felony, let alone 34, related to a single incident.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11370 on: May 31, 2024, 01:02:36 PM »
Also: Its not Hush Money if you do it publically.  Makes the whole point of "hush" kinda... not.  Like you literally show us a press conference in which the woman gets money to not go to trial.  How is that Hush? Do you know the defintiion of Hush?
CousinBill publically paid Paula Jones to keep her mouth shut?
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

Re: Trump
« Reply #11371 on: May 31, 2024, 01:15:43 PM »
lol love that y'all are still screeching about the clintons. so pathetic.
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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11372 on: May 31, 2024, 02:18:58 PM »
What evidence? There is no evidence he committed a single felony, let alone 34, related to a single incident.
I think it was the evidence that the jury just finished considering before finding him guilty on all 34 counts. So that evidence
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11373 on: May 31, 2024, 02:35:54 PM »
Also: Its not Hush Money if you do it publically.  Makes the whole point of "hush" kinda... not.  Like you literally show us a press conference in which the woman gets money to not go to trial.  How is that Hush? Do you know the defintiion of Hush?
CousinBill publically paid Paula Jones to keep her mouth shut?

Literally what Tom posted, yes.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11374 on: May 31, 2024, 03:52:47 PM »
The number of moderates that were deciding who to vote for based entirely on the outcome of a porn star payoff trial is precisely zero. If you were voting for Trump, the outcome of the trial didn't matter. If you weren't voting for Trump, the outcome of the trial didn't matter.
Not entirely. But the fact Trump is now a convicted felon isn’t going to make anyone reconsider? I’m not saying you’re wrong but it would be a bit weird if this wasn’t a factor for anyone

This is an often repeated phrase now, "a convicted felon", but who really cares? Would Democrats vote for a "convicted felon"? The answer is yes. Would Republicans? I think it's obviously also yes.

I don't think there is a single person that was voting for Trump and switched to Biden after the verdict. Trump voters see it as a sham trial that reinforces Trump's "deep state" narrative. Biden voters weren't going to vote for Trump, even if he wasn't found guilty. The outcome of the trial quite simply didn't matter. It was already baked into existing polls.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 04:00:33 PM by Rushy »

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11375 on: May 31, 2024, 04:20:14 PM »
This is an often repeated phrase now, "a convicted felon", but who really cares? Would Democrats vote for a "convicted felon"? The answer is yes. Would Republicans? I think it's obviously also yes.

I don't think there is a single person that was voting for Trump and switched to Biden after the verdict. Trump voters see it as a sham trial that reinforces Trump's "deep state" narrative. Biden voters weren't going to vote for Trump, even if he wasn't found guilty. The outcome of the trial quite simply didn't matter. It was already baked into existing polls.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnll59r891xo

Quote
Polls indicate he is in a statistical dead heat with President Joe Biden and maintains a slight edge in many key swing states that will decide the election. But those surveys also provide evidence that this conviction might change all of that.
In exit polls conducted during the Republican primaries this winter, double-digit numbers of voters said that they would not vote for the former president if he were convicted of a felony.
An April survey by Ipsos and ABC News found that 16% of those backing Trump would reconsider their support in such a situation.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11376 on: May 31, 2024, 04:47:46 PM »
The Jones case was an out-of-court settlement for a lawsuit over sexual harassment. It wasn't "hush money," it was a very public affair that needed the Supreme Court to first settle if sitting presidents could be sued, and there was no ongoing election that Clinton could have been violating the laws over. Elections have rules, no matter how much Trump and his fans don't like it and don't understand it. Just like it's illegal for foreign governments to interfere and try to swing the election one way or the other, it's also illegal to cover up campaign payments instead of properly declaring them. The irony, of course, is that Trump never needed to make this payment at all, let alone cover it up. Trump's fans admire him all the more for having an affair with a porn star, while also paradoxically maintaining that it never happened at all. And of course nobody will be persuaded to not vote for Trump just because of this verdict.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11377 on: May 31, 2024, 05:04:48 PM »
This is an often repeated phrase now, "a convicted felon", but who really cares? Would Democrats vote for a "convicted felon"? The answer is yes. Would Republicans? I think it's obviously also yes.

I don't think there is a single person that was voting for Trump and switched to Biden after the verdict. Trump voters see it as a sham trial that reinforces Trump's "deep state" narrative. Biden voters weren't going to vote for Trump, even if he wasn't found guilty. The outcome of the trial quite simply didn't matter. It was already baked into existing polls.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnll59r891xo

Quote
Polls indicate he is in a statistical dead heat with President Joe Biden and maintains a slight edge in many key swing states that will decide the election. But those surveys also provide evidence that this conviction might change all of that.
In exit polls conducted during the Republican primaries this winter, double-digit numbers of voters said that they would not vote for the former president if he were convicted of a felony.
An April survey by Ipsos and ABC News found that 16% of those backing Trump would reconsider their support in such a situation.

I find the idea of someone who would vote for Trump unless he was found guilty of a finance crime comedic but if the polls say they exist then so be it.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11378 on: May 31, 2024, 06:28:41 PM »
What evidence? There is no evidence he committed a single felony, let alone 34, related to a single incident.
I think it was the evidence that the jury just finished considering before finding him guilty on all 34 counts. So that evidence
New Yorkers serving as jurors have some sort of clue regarding evidence? Even persons serving as magistrates and prosecutors in that area have no clue.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #11379 on: May 31, 2024, 08:04:39 PM »
The jury didn't care about evidence, or lack thereof (they had none). They had made up their mind (guilty) before proceedings had even started.
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