*

Online Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8582
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #80 on: December 15, 2014, 09:09:36 PM »
What is the appeal of Kingdom Hearts for you?

It's a Final Fantasy game that has a pretty good story (barring the first game) and a combat/travel system that keeps gameplay interesting.

Ghost of V

Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #81 on: December 15, 2014, 09:10:25 PM »
What is the appeal of Kingdom Hearts for you?

What isn't the appeal to you? It's a Final Fantasy game that has a pretty good story (barring the first game) and a combat system that keeps gameplay interesting.

I like Kingdom Hearts. I was just wondering what you liked about it, since you don't really seem like the kind of person who would play that series. Book covers and whatnot. Shouldn't judge.

I wouldn't say it's one of my favorite series by any means, though. It's a bit too sappy at times, and the first game is still very lackluster. Kingdom Hearts 2 is infinitely  better (except Roxas).
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 09:15:15 PM by Vauxhall »

*

Online Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8582
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #82 on: December 15, 2014, 09:16:30 PM »
I like Kingdom Hearts. I was just wondering what you liked about it, since you don't really seem like the kind of person who would play that series. Book covers and whatnot. Shouldn't judge.

I wouldn't say it's one of my favorite series by any means, though. It's a bit too sappy at times, and the first game is still very lackluster. Kingdom Hearts 2 is infinitely  better (except Roxas).

It makes the majority of Final Fantasy games look like garbage, especially recent ones. When they release these remixes, it adds new content that I've never played before (and am very much interested in playing) as well as entire new games that I couldn't play because they were on the wrong platform.

Yeah, the game has Disney characters, but so what? Most of these Disney characters have stories and attitudes that can be taken more seriously than many FF characters anyway. Just play Final Fantasy 7 and try to tolerate Yuffie or Cait Sith for more than 5 seconds.

Ghost of V

Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #83 on: December 15, 2014, 09:31:22 PM »
I think the Final Fantasy series is better than Kingdom Hearts overall, but KH does have many points in its favor. The combat system is more accessible to jrpg newcomers, which I think is the main reason it's so popular (and maybe the Disney characters). The story, however, is completely throwaway in my opinion. I did enjoy some of the Disney characters and their zones, but things like the Little Mermaid zone are cringe worthy.

I can see how you'd think KH is better than FF7, but it would be ridiculous to make that claim about Final Fantasy 9 or 10. 10 being the best game in the series, in my opinion. The story is actually really well written and tackles some mature themes (killing God, for one). The battle system is classic turn-based, just simplified to perfection by making it way more accessible than 7 or 8. Sure, some of the characters like Tidus, Wakka, and Yuna are annoying, but that can be said about Sora and his little girlfriend as well.


Also, pick any game that came out before or after Final Fantasy 13 and I'll tell you 6 reasons why that game is better. You can't really compare KH to FF13 for this reason.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 09:35:26 PM by Vauxhall »

*

Offline rooster

  • *
  • Posts: 4139
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #84 on: December 15, 2014, 10:44:40 PM »
The first one was actually my favorite. Everything past that got way too convoluted (like a typical JRPG).

*

Online Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8582
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #85 on: December 15, 2014, 11:23:59 PM »
The first one was actually my favorite. Everything past that got way too convoluted (like a typical JRPG).

The story is only perceived as convoluted because it is spread out among different games at different timelines on different consoles (something I consider to be ruinous of the series). If you play the games or watch the cinematics in their proper order, the story is actually straight forward. Kid me liked the first one's story because it was generically Disney [save the princess and the world(s)!] Adult me likes the expanded story line a lot better.

Basically the only reason that Kingdom Hearts isn't immensely more popular is that it is made by crazy ass Japanese people.

I think the Final Fantasy series is better than Kingdom Hearts overall, but KH does have many points in its favor. The combat system is more accessible to jrpg newcomers, which I think is the main reason it's so popular (and maybe the Disney characters).

Well, yeah.

The story, however, is completely throwaway in my opinion.

You just throw this out there and don't say anything else. What a Saddam-move.

I did enjoy some of the Disney characters and their zones, but things like the Little Mermaid zone are cringe worthy.

That's probably why they made the Little Mermaid zones optional in both KH1 and KH2. Only a completionist is forced to play them, you don't even get anything good out of doing them other than the ability to say you did.

I can see how you'd think KH is better than FF7, but it would be ridiculous to make that claim about Final Fantasy 9 or 10. 10 being the best game in the series, in my opinion. The story is actually really well written and tackles some mature themes (killing God, for one). The battle system is classic turn-based, just simplified to perfection by making it way more accessible than 7 or 8. Sure, some of the characters like Tidus, Wakka, and Yuna are annoying, but that can be said about Sora and his little girlfriend as well.

I hate turn based games with a passion, so this is sort of lost on me.

Also, pick any game that came out before or after Final Fantasy 13 and I'll tell you 6 reasons why that game is better. You can't really compare KH to FF13 for this reason.

See above.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 11:28:39 PM by Irushwithscvs »

*

Offline rooster

  • *
  • Posts: 4139
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #86 on: December 15, 2014, 11:25:32 PM »
Basically the only reason that Kingdom Hearts isn't immensely more popular is that it is made by crazy ass Japanese people.
I will totally agree with this.

Is there some nifty video out there that has all the cinematics in order? Cause you're right, I haven't played all the games since I don't own every single console.

*

Online Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8582
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #87 on: December 15, 2014, 11:29:46 PM »
Basically the only reason that Kingdom Hearts isn't immensely more popular is that it is made by crazy ass Japanese people.
I will totally agree with this.

Is there some nifty video out there that has all the cinematics in order? Cause you're right, I haven't played all the games since I don't own every single console.

Unless Youtube now allows 100+ hour videos, I doubt it. I know all the available English cinematics are on the youtubes, you just have to search them out.

http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Kingdom_Hearts_%28series%29/Timeline

There's the timeline showing all the games in chronological story order.

*

Offline rooster

  • *
  • Posts: 4139
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #88 on: December 15, 2014, 11:36:20 PM »
Thanks, bae.  :-*

*

Offline Particle Person

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2987
  • born 2 b b&
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #89 on: December 16, 2014, 12:29:48 AM »
The Kingdom Hearts series has about as much story depth as Disney World.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

*

Online Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8582
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #90 on: December 16, 2014, 12:42:58 AM »
The Kingdom Hearts series has about as much story depth as Disney World.

Deep as a kiddie pool, wide as an ocean.

Ghost of V

Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #91 on: December 16, 2014, 01:33:12 AM »
Thanks, bae.  :-*

Alternatively, you could just check out this google doc that attempts to make sense of the canon.


If you play the games or watch the cinematics in their proper order, the story is actually straight forward.

No, Rushy. Just no. Please peruse the doc I posted, then let me know if you still think KH's story is "actually straight forward". It is a pretty convoluted clusterfuck. It's way too complicated for a game about Disney characters fighting with Final Fantasy characters fighting against people who are actually other people inside other people pretending to be other people. Wait, nevermind.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 01:39:08 AM by Vauxhall »

*

Offline rooster

  • *
  • Posts: 4139
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #92 on: December 16, 2014, 02:52:47 AM »
Yeah, I'm going to have to go back over it but the people who are other people who are the heartless forms of other people didn't make any sense to me.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #93 on: December 16, 2014, 03:04:22 AM »
JRPGs are weird, not Japanese games in general. Japanese devs in general understand the philosophy behind level structure, enemy placement, game flow, pacing, what motivates the player and how to teach the player new concepts through game design better than Western devs do. See: Classic Castlevania, Megaman, or as a more recent example, the Souls games.

That being said, companies like Square who pay immense attention to their Mary Sue cardboard cutout characters and consider "character design" (and that's in terms of their visual design, not writing) to be the most important aspect in games, are terrible and misrepresent the virtuosity that does exist in Japanese game design. A lot of people say the Souls games "feel Western" or label them as WRPGs, but that's just because they don't pander to the otaku audience like Square does. The design philosophy in those games is very Japanese, and people seem to have forgotten what that means.

To put it another way, Square is a terrible company and JRPGs are terrible games.  Stop playing them, or if you must play them, stop trying to analyze their stories.  The devs obviously don't care about them, so you shouldn't either.

*

Online Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8582
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #94 on: December 16, 2014, 03:16:28 AM »
No, Rushy. Just no. Please peruse the doc I posted, then let me know if you still think KH's story is "actually straight forward". It is a pretty convoluted clusterfuck. It's way too complicated for a game about Disney characters fighting with Final Fantasy characters fighting against people who are actually other people inside other people pretending to be other people. Wait, nevermind.

You're the kind of person that thought Inception was mind-blowingly complex.

*

Offline Snupes

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Counting wolves in your paranoiac intervals
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #95 on: December 16, 2014, 03:27:39 AM »


Alternatively, you could just check out this google doc that attempts to make sense of the canon.

That was...actually pretty simple to follow. And I've only played the first two.
There are cigarettes in joints. You don't smoke it by itself.

*

Offline rooster

  • *
  • Posts: 4139
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #96 on: December 16, 2014, 03:36:59 AM »
I flip flop on Kingdom Hearts. I liked the first two games but I never liked the Nintendo handheld games.

I'm excited about 3 though. The game can get me in the feels even if I'm not 100% sure what's going on.

*

Online Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8582
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #97 on: December 16, 2014, 03:39:48 AM »
I'm excited about 3 though. The game can get me in the feels even if I'm not 100% sure what's going on.

Watch the 358/2 days cinematics. The whole game will punch your feels repeatedly.

Ghost of V

Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #98 on: December 16, 2014, 03:47:03 AM »


Alternatively, you could just check out this google doc that attempts to make sense of the canon.

That was...actually pretty simple to follow. And I've only played the first two.


That's the point of the doc.

*

Offline Snupes

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Counting wolves in your paranoiac intervals
    • View Profile
Re: Recommend a Game
« Reply #99 on: December 16, 2014, 03:55:32 AM »
But you pointed Rushy to it as proof that the game is a convoluted clusterfuck, when it really shows that it's a pretty easy to follow story
There are cigarettes in joints. You don't smoke it by itself.