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Offline Tau

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2015, 03:07:55 PM »
Actually, research finds that legalizing marijuana might make the roads safer. It's surprisingly difficult to say that there's a correlation between pot use and accidents, according to the research I've found. So that argument is out.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

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Offline xasop

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2015, 03:13:00 PM »
Actually, research finds that legalizing marijuana might make the roads safer. It's surprisingly difficult to say that there's a correlation between pot use and accidents, according to the research I've found. So that argument is out.

This article supports my primary point, too:

Quote
One key factor is the reduction in alcohol consumption. The study finds that there is a direct correlation between the use of marijuana and a reduction in beer sales, especially in the younger folks aged 20-29.

A drop in beer sales supports the theory that marijuana can act as a substitute for liquor.

Thanks for the link, Tausami.
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Offline Shane

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2015, 03:26:13 PM »
I like to smoke weed, so it should be legal. Weed is best served jampacked with cigarettes, Thork is right.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 03:28:12 PM by Sean »
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Offline beardo

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2015, 03:43:03 PM »
Sean. Stop.
The Mastery.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2015, 03:50:32 PM »
When weed is legal, what is something that I can put in it that will make people more addicted to it? I could soak it in nicotine extract. Hmm.

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2015, 04:15:57 PM »
When weed is legal, what is something that I can put in it that will make people more addicted to it? I could soak it in nicotine extract. Hmm.

But that would make them addicted to nicotine.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2015, 04:18:30 PM »
But that would make them addicted to nicotine.

Which their mind will remember was acquired from my weed specifically. They'll get that craving unless they buy more specifically from me. It is foolproof. Until I get sued or something. Hm.

Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2015, 04:24:43 PM »
I want to clarify a few misconceptions about marijuana use:

Legalising cannabis to reduce drinking is like banning guns to prevent obesity.

I can only speak for myself, but marijuana is a huge part of the reason I don't drink.  I like being intoxicated.  I find it relaxing.  I prefer marijuana to the exclusion of alcohol.  Alcohol gives me hangovers and wrecks my ability to think and make good decisions.  Pot lets me relax and still be a completely functional human being.  But, if pot weren't available to me, I'd still want to be intoxicated, so I'd just drink instead of smoke.

What's more, I definitely know plenty of people who would make the same decision if pot was decriminalized and regulated like alcohol.  They don't now because it's illicit.

I never met anyone who doesn't put tobacco in a joint. For a start, it doesn't burn well without tobacco and keeps going out.

Have you ever heard of a pipe?  Or a vaporizer?  I'm sure there are difference between American and European marijuana use, but most of the people I know smoke their weed in pipes, bongs, and vaporizers; not joints or spliffs.  And if I think about it for a moment, I know hardly anyone other than myself in America who smokes spliffs and not joints.  My experiences surely aren't universal, but it's definitely not the case that everyone who smokes pot mixes it with tobacco.  Not even close, probably.

And by the way, how the hell do you smoke oils or resin in a joint without tobacco?

I smoke hash oils and concentrates by vaporizing them using a water pipe and a titanium fixture (called a "nail").  Think of a bong, but where the weed would go there's a titanium screw that you heat with a torch lighter to vaporize the oil.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 04:26:23 PM by garygreen »
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Offline xasop

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2015, 04:28:47 PM »
But that would make them addicted to nicotine.

Which their mind will remember was acquired from my weed specifically. They'll get that craving unless they buy more specifically from me. It is foolproof. Until I get sued or something. Hm.

I fully support your right to do that, so long as you clearly label your product as what it is. Anyone who buys your product is responsible for their own choices, not you and not the government.

Here's a speech from Australian Liberal Democrats senator David Leyonhjelm, which I completely agree with and find to be a very powerful argument (as is usual for Leyonhjelm's speeches) for legalisation of marijuana:

when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Thork

Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2015, 04:47:17 PM »
When weed is legal, what is something that I can put in it that will make people more addicted to it? I could soak it in nicotine extract. Hmm.
A small amount of any type of poison will do it. Strychnine, nicotine, taxine, cyanide, most pesticides, ricin. Pretty much anything other than heavy metals which will kill you by accumulation. Your body trying to rid you of the poison creates a withdrawl symptom when its finished and that makes you addicted.

Actually, research finds that legalizing marijuana might make the roads safer. It's surprisingly difficult to say that there's a correlation between pot use and accidents, according to the research I've found. So that argument is out.
Yeah, a source like that isn't a fact. Here's the exact opposite. http://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/files/Marijuana-Use-Increases-Risk-of-Traffic-Crashes-and-Deaths.html#.VTPYpnl0yUk

You can deduce this by common sense. Are you going to be more likely to have an accident when you are high? Answer: Yes. Because it impairs your senses. That's the point of it. Might it reduce drink driving accidents? Possibly but they are very very rare as a percentage of accidents anyway. And will there be more accidents caused by people who are now high and otherwise wouldn't be drinking?

Finally, I'm not suggesting that making cannabis legal will reduce drinking, only that it stands a chance of addressing our alcohol-related violence problem. There are any number of ways it could do that, one of which is a reduction in the amount of drinking, but another could simply be that its relaxant properties help to suppress the antisocial behaviour associated with alcohol. As I said, we don't know for certain until we try it.
You can't keep flip-flopping. It's illegal, it's legal, sorry our mistake, it's illegal again. If you allow the public to use a narcotic for recreational purposes you have opened Pandora's box. Its not then very easy to put the evil back into that box. People will resist and break the law. After all, you got them using it by making it legal. Its not about "we have to try". That is completely irresponsible. People may be directly harmed by your changes in legislation.

Also cannabis is usually smoked with cigarette tobacco. I can tell you know, you will get more smokers. I had a friend at uni who just smoked weed. One day he was saying to me, "I really need a joint". I looked at him and said "No one needs a joint, what you want it a cigarette". He laughed and I gave him a cigarette as we were out of cannabis. He smoked it and the penny dropped. He was addicted to cigarettes and that was why he'd been using up my pot supply. >o< He became a full time smoker from that moment on.

Making cannabis use social and recreational is undoubtedly going to make more smokers. Call it a gateway drug if you like. But leading to smoking full time.

I want to clarify a few misconceptions about marijuana use:

Legalising cannabis to reduce drinking is like banning guns to prevent obesity.

I can only speak for myself, but marijuana is a huge part of the reason I don't drink.  I like being intoxicated.  I find it relaxing.  I prefer marijuana to the exclusion of alcohol.  Alcohol gives me hangovers and wrecks my ability to think and make good decisions.  Pot lets me relax and still be a completely functional human being.  But, if pot weren't available to me, I'd still want to be intoxicated, so I'd just drink instead of smoke.

What's more, I definitely know plenty of people who would make the same decision if pot was decriminalized and regulated like alcohol.  They don't now because it's illicit.

I never met anyone who doesn't put tobacco in a joint. For a start, it doesn't burn well without tobacco and keeps going out.

Have you ever heard of a pipe?  Or a vaporizer?  I'm sure there are difference between American and European marijuana use, but most of the people I know smoke their weed in pipes, bongs, and vaporizers; not joints or spliffs.  And if I think about it for a moment, I know hardly anyone other than myself in America who smokes spliffs and not joints.  My experiences surely aren't universal, but it's definitely not the case that everyone who smokes pot mixes it with tobacco.  Not even close, probably.

And by the way, how the hell do you smoke oils or resin in a joint without tobacco?

I smoke hash oils and concentrates by vaporizing them using a water pipe and a titanium fixture (called a "nail").  Think of a bong, but where the weed would go there's a titanium screw that you heat with a torch lighter to vaporize the oil.
If you go into a bar in Amsterdam to smoke, you buy a joint or two. They don't rush you out a bong or a vaporiser or a pipe. Its a social thing and you smoke socially. You aren't going to get wrecked as fast as possible by inhaling a bucket. Hash bars will sell joints. And they don't sell all kinds of paraphernalia that goes with it in those bars. It isn't meant to be a drugs den. People smoke because smoking is social as native American's I'm sure will testify. ;-)

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Offline xasop

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2015, 04:51:58 PM »
Its not about "we have to try".

Read the thread title.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Thork

Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2015, 04:53:20 PM »
In your OP you talked about recreational use. Not medical use. The trial is for medical use. Different topic entirely.

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Offline xasop

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2015, 04:57:41 PM »
In your OP you talked about recreational use. Not medical use. The trial is for medical use. Different topic entirely.

Different, but related. What I said was:

My eventual hope is that this trial, combined with the NSW government's obvious concern for alcohol-related violence in Sydney, will lead them to decriminalising recreational marijuana as an alternative to Sydney's decadent alcohol culture.

Naturally, one way to accomplish that would be to begin a trial of recreational cannabis in the same vein.

However, even skipping a trial, I think there is a substantial body of evidence from decriminalisation in other countries to say that it won't have a negative impact. At worst, things will remain exactly the same. As such, there's no reason not to try.

What you're suggesting is hindering progress because we don't know how much progress will be made. Imagine if that reasoning had been applied to the construction of large-scale electricity networks, or mass production of automobiles. At some point, you have to accept the fact that advances in society are made by trying new things once you have a reasonable expectation of safety and seeing what happens.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Thork

Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2015, 05:00:01 PM »
I just disagree with you. I think legalising it will have a negative impact. I think the system is fine as it is. The world isn't perfect, you can't make utopian legislation. You have to be practical.

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Offline xasop

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2015, 05:04:33 PM »
I just disagree with you. I think legalising it will have a negative impact.

This isn't a matter of opinion, I've provided substantiating evidence. You have provided none. Your case holds no weight.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2015, 05:05:13 PM »
I fully support your right to do that, so long as you clearly label your product as what it is. Anyone who buys your product is responsible for their own choices, not you and not the government.

Here's a speech from Australian Liberal Democrats senator David Leyonhjelm, which I completely agree with and find to be a very powerful argument (as is usual for Leyonhjelm's speeches) for legalisation of marijuana:

I just need to print something along the lines of "may contain nicotine" or "made using the same facilities that process tobacco products" somewhere in tiny print on my product and I'm good to go.

Thork

Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2015, 05:07:46 PM »
I just disagree with you. I think legalising it will have a negative impact.

This isn't a matter of opinion, I've provided substantiating evidence. You have provided none. Your case holds no weight.
Yawn. I'm sure you know how to use google to find evidence of an opposing point of view.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/ondcp/issues-content/marijuana_and_public_health_one_pager_-_final.pdf

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Offline Shane

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2015, 05:10:16 PM »
Thork has crime run rampant in Amsterdam?

Also, see Colorado. Those guys are making mad bucks for the state and as far as I am aware they are doing just fine.
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Offline xasop

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Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2015, 05:17:27 PM »
Yawn. I'm sure you know how to use google to find evidence of an opposing point of view.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/ondcp/issues-content/marijuana_and_public_health_one_pager_-_final.pdf

This isn't evidence, it's propaganda. The first part doesn't even begin to address the issue of legality, and the few attempts at logical reasoning the latter part makes are fundamentally flawed. For example, it tries to use the social cost of alcohol to show that the social cost of marijuana would be high, without providing any rationale for the two being comparable.

Given that the part of the document relating to health issues is useless, I looked at one of its references for economic issues. Big surprise; the document they referenced shows that legalising marijuana in California would not eliminate the black market in Mexico because Mexico could provide the product at a cheaper cost. This is not indicative of a drug problem, but an economic problem.

Is this really the best you can do?
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Thork

Re: Medicinal cannabis trial in Australia
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2015, 05:20:24 PM »
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 05:26:43 PM by Dr David Thork »