501

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: February 14, 2017, 09:49:47 AM »

Michael Flynn just resigned over the Russia stuff. And according to the Washington Post, the Trump administration was informed of Flynn lying.

This Trump... He is not sending over his best people to the cabinet.  He's sending over Russian spies, he's sending over creationists.  And a few of them are good people I assume.  We need to shut down immigration to the White House until we can figure out what's going on.  I think American's need extreme vetting now more than ever.

502

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: February 05, 2017, 10:18:48 PM »

I actually agree with you on some of these points.  The subject of immigration is so politicized that the discussion all too often goes to the extreme of "if you don't completely open up your borders you're Hitler!" or "if you let in anyone they're probably going to bomb us".

I'm not very concerned with terrorists getting in.  Our vetting process is pretty thorough.  I'm more concerned about a large influx of a population that insists on setting up a fascist theocracy.  Somewhat paradoxically this is why we should take on refugees and immigrants from these countries.  When you have a country the size of Norway it's very easy to get overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of refugees this Islamic civil war is creating.  The US on the other hand is 65 times larger.  Additionally we generate more cultural influence than any civilization in history and that's an easy thing to forget if you've never lived outside the country.  Any group that immigrates to this country is far more influenced by us than we are by them.  If America is caught in a rain storm we don't get wet, the water gets Americanized.

This conflict between radical Islam and the West is not fought between countries, it's a war of ideologies.  To attack its adherents directly is often to make that ideology stronger.  Moral high ground, liberty and cultural plurality are more effective weapons here.  Carefully vet anyone who immigrates here?  Absolutely.  Limit the numbers to what we can handle?  Yes.  And while we're at it let's drop "it's just their culture" as an excuse for terrible behavior.  But to shut them out entirely on the ground of security?  I think we're missing an important opportunity bring Islam out of the Bronze age.

That aside I'll ask you a question and it'll seem like I'm trying to bash you with your own faith but I really not.  I'm just curious.  Because there's several situations where modern Christians seem very at odds with this question.

What would Jesus do?

503

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: February 01, 2017, 03:53:19 AM »

I'm ok with Gorsuch. I hope the Democrats don't try and fillibuster this nominee and save that fight for someone like Ginsburg.

Gorsuch might be the most shocking Trump appointment yet. He's, what's the word, qualified. He has a degree in law and not animal husbandry. He doesn't think the Supreme Court is a hoax by the Chinese. I'd prefer someone less conservative but he doesn't seem like a madman.

504

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment

« on: October 22, 2016, 02:32:22 AM »

Nicely done.  I would say at the very least Tom Bishop botched this experiment and probably needs to run it again.

Whatever happened to Tom Bishop by the way?

505

Flat Earth Community / Re: How would you promote the society if we were funded?

« on: October 18, 2016, 04:32:01 PM »

Okay I'll make an actual suggestion this time. Contact Joe Rogan and try to get interviewed on his podcast.

Rogan is a pretty open minded guy. He's not stupid but he'll hear you out.

506

Flat Earth Community / Re: Interview

« on: October 16, 2016, 04:05:13 PM »

Thank you ! Do you know how I can contact them ?

Two of these guys are on a different flat earth forum.  Long story.

You'll probably have to register at flatearthsociety.org to contact them.

This is John Davis's profile.  He's the secretary of the flat earth society.  There's other higher ups but he actively posts.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=5562

This is Ski's profile.  He's a moderator that actively debates.  It's kind of unusual to find a flat earther that actually attempts to reason which is why I would recommend him.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13738

Tom Bishop on this site.
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?action=profile;u=5234

Good Luck!

507

Flat Earth Community / Re: Interview

« on: October 16, 2016, 01:49:01 AM »

Hello Tom,

I'm not a flat earther but there are 3 people I would recommend for an actual discussion.

As Woody said John Davis.
Tom Bishop on this site.
I don't know his real name but the moderator Ski on the "other" site. flatearthsociety.org

508

Flat Earth Community / Re: Has anyone got 100% proof for globe or flat earth that cannot be debunked?

« on: September 15, 2016, 02:12:06 AM »

Only 100% proof is allowed to be posted in this topic! Good luck! 

100% like absolute certainly? No.  Human reasoning doesn't work that way.

Beyond reasonable doubt, yes.

That's not entirely relevant though. If this is an important question to you then you should take it upon yourself to verify any claims that have been made. There's a number of experiments you can perform which aren't terribly expensive. If the truth is important to you and you're skeptical of any authority attempting to dictate reality to you then your only reasonable course of action is to investigate these claims yourself.

509

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why can't we see the sun via telescope after it sets/moves further? or can we?

« on: September 14, 2016, 02:52:20 AM »

It's very simple. According to robothans law of perspective object disappearing over the horizon can be restored with a sufficiently powerful telescope.

Just line up your telescope to the object in question and when it disappears keep cranking up the zoom until it's restored.

Hope that helps.

510

Flat Earth Community / Re: How would you promote the society if we were funded?

« on: September 14, 2016, 01:12:08 AM »

Well, I'd stay away from the whole science route.  That just won't end well for the flat earth. 

This is an empty statement with no substance.

Instead hire a pr firm and try to get this movement protected social status like a religion or a minority group.

This literally is counter to the goal of this community, which is freedom of thought, ideas, expression, etc. We don't require safe spaces or special treatment.

I disagree but I could be wrong.

Alright here's another idea. There's a lot of YouTube videos on FET but the problem is they all look terrible, very low production quality, people that just can't do a compelling presentation on camera. What I'd do is hire an actor and create a bill nye the science guy kind of personal. Then do a series of experiments demonstrating the evidence of a flat earth. A lot of the money will have to go into cgi to "massage"  the results. But hey computer animators gotta eat too right?

511

Flat Earth Community / Re: How would you promote the society if we were funded?

« on: September 13, 2016, 01:24:59 AM »

Well, I'd stay away from the whole science route.  That just won't end well for the flat earth. 

Instead hire a pr firm and try to get this movement protected social status like a religion or a minority group. 

512

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why you guys always refute the theory instead of showing flat earth evidence?

« on: August 02, 2016, 02:14:06 AM »

Thanks for showing me evidence which writtrn in like 1850.

I didn't realize the truth had an expiration date.

It doesn't, but the fact that his experiments haven't been repeated and confirmed in 150 years should be a warning sign.

Well to be fair you can get the same results as rowbothan. You just have work out the correct height distance and temperature to get atmospheric refraction to compensate for the curvature of the Earth.

513

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Instead of arguing, fighting and insulting

« on: August 02, 2016, 02:05:53 AM »

Hi everyone,

I am new to this website but have been *ahem* 'researching' flat earth on youtube and the net for some time, I always seem to find a lot of people fighting for and against with lots of theory, counter theory, scripture and historical evidence. I have no interest in this whatsoever, I personally believe people will always gravitate towards the worldview that best fits the narrative of their values and life purpose.

Now, I am a pretty practical person who would like to prove one way or the other in an open and repeatable way. I have an open mind and a fairly empty weekend calendar.  The question I put to everyone here is, do any of you actually want to do some experiments to prove/disprove this theory? I am UK based (Hereford) and if your genuinely want to work on this, I have allowed emails to me from this forum.

I do not want to debate or have someone 'show me the light', but I could do with a hand in developing a conclusive test.

Many thanks,

John.

We're all pretty sure what the conclusion would be if we actually tested this. It would kind of ruin the fun of a forum built around debating an absurd viewpoint.

514

Flat Earth Community / Re: This is how you prove it, without fail. Please read.

« on: July 31, 2016, 03:50:39 PM »

All you need.
3 boats
3 boat operators
3 Drones of Mid-High End capabilities.
3 Pilots to operate drones
3 smart phones with full physics package tracking every known datatype available, rigged safely to drones.
100 Miles of light weight Fiber.

Three boats arrive in international waters. Boat A anchors and remains stationary with one end of 100 mile thread fiber. Boat B and C will then travel 100 miles East parallel to the equator and anchor having the other end of the string attached to vessel B. Boat C will then travel back immediately west to 50 miles following what should be visible fiber line and at 50 mile point stop, anchor and relay with Boat A and B. Boat A and B will deploy drones into air, hovering and using only vertical movement. Drones will fly up one at a time both to designated height to ensure that fiber is taut and without slack. Telemetry will record all data needed between both dynamic points using smartphones harnessed to drones which are taught together with 100 miles of lightweight fiber. Boat C will witness and record for record the state of the wire. Boat C will deploy drone which will gather telemetry data from wire with a Drone that travels along the path of the wire back to boat A.

This will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the true nature of our planet.

This is straight out of my head. I have not taken suggestions from any organization, entity or corporation. I am not affiliated with any persons or state. I am a private citizen formerly enlisted as an Aeronautical logistician in the United States Air Force. I hold a journeyman qualification in Aerial logistics. Multiple computer system qualifications as well as former experience as an engineering associate for L&W Engineering.

I am willing to organize this test with volunteers from this community with 100% record of events and absolute transparency.

You can reach me at @intelvalor on Twitter or via Pm here where I can discuss further.

Thank you for your consideration. I think it's time we put this to rest.

-Discuss

This seems unnecessarily complicated. Does this method have any real advantage over taking binoculars to a pier?

515

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat earth

« on: July 29, 2016, 11:02:04 PM »

<#200 - #97>

The hero we don't deserve.

But seriously, you may want to slow down. The stupidity from that video might be contagious if taken in high doses.

Oh I didn't watch the video.  I couldn't handle that even on a youtube documentary with good production value.  There's a link to a web page in the description that lists each point.  I'm actually learning a lot of things I didn't know by going through each point. 

I'm starting to wonder about the intentions of the author of this list, Eric Dubay I guess.  None of these points stand up to any scrutiny.  This video took  time to compile so he had to have known that.  Is it some kind of performance art?  A prank?  Is he secretly promoting science on Youtube by getting people to research things?  Or a more likely but also depressing option, he has no marketable job skills so he's attacking common knowledge to gain an audience and earn a few advertising dollars? 

516

Flat Earth Theory / Re: New here

« on: July 29, 2016, 07:50:17 PM »

I HAVE read "Earth is not a Globe", and it is many things, but it is NOT scientific.

Exactly.

517

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat earth

« on: July 26, 2016, 08:46:59 PM »

Several dozen more.  I'm getting the questions from http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html btw.  I'm certainly not going to wait through a youtube video that long.

129 Please just buy a cheap telescope.  They're actually kind of cool.  This one is absurd
128 It is impossible to tell time completely accurately without adjustment.  It's been a challenge for every civlization since the beginning of time.  http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Measurement_of_Time.aspx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar
127  That picture actually works against this premise.  You can clearly see the brightest part of the reflection do not form a straight line to the observer.  I do see lesser reflections from ripples.
126 seasons don't work that way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season
125 Well judging by the angles I'm seeing in that photograph it looks like the sun is roughly a mile up.  I doubt anyone thinks that's the case.  Perhaps this will clear things up https://www.quora.com/Why-is-it-that-when-the-sun-is-moving-through-the-clouds-we-see-the-sun-rays-coming-through-at-an-angle
124.  That doesn't look like it's directly under it.  Also it's the wrong size.  Wouldn't it be an equal size if the Earth were flat?
123.  You don't need a space program to verify this one.  Just watch a few sundials from around the world and record their readings http://sunny.astro.washington.edu/sundialwebcams.php.  If you assume a flat earth the distance that you triangulate to will vary wildly with time of day and location.
122,121,114,113,98  argument from personal incredulity
120 Etymology is not the same thing as proof.
119  Even jupiter?  http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-news/observing-news/jupiter-big-bright-andbeautiful/
118,117  Tides don't work that way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide
116 Are you sure you're not looking at the same universe I am?
115 All you need is a vacuum chamber to observe this for yourself  http://www.bestvaluevacs.com/5gvac.html
112 sigh... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_orbit
111 flights do fly over the antarctic http://www.gotravelyourway.com/2013/07/20/qantas-flight-qf63-from-sydney-to-johannesburg/
110,109,108 We've come a long way with navigation since trying to draw a circle on a piece of paper.  I assure you we can travel in a straight line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navigation
107,106  No ICP, that's not how magnets work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetism
105,104,103,102,101,100,99 I might look this up later but given that the author can't tell the difference between Polaris and Sigma Octantis I'm going to go ahead and assume that he can't reliably tell the difference between constellations.
97 We've actually got a lot of data on the big bang.  It's a fascinating read, highly recommended.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

518

Flat Earth Theory / Re: New here

« on: July 26, 2016, 03:49:41 PM »

I'm new to this site and trying to understand the flat earth point of view, but all I'm seeing is "the government lies to us" over and over. Now I'm a young earth creationist so obviously I don't conform to the norm when it comes to science. But there is real scientific evidence to back up a six day creation. There is none for your flat earth theory. So isn't this just hurting the Kingdom? (If you're a Christian.)

Have you read 'The Earth is not a Globe'?  https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi9h4ubvZHOAhXJ7oMKHY-OAYYQFggiMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theflatearthsociety.org%2Flibrary%2Fpamphlets%2FOne%2520Hundred%2520Proofs%2520that%2520the%2520Earth%2520is%2520not%2520a%2520Globe%2520(William%2520Carpenter).pdf&usg=AFQjCNF5OS60rHoBf2SkoguYB9jp6pqZGw&sig2=wc9XucdHrtRThCel-OO2BA.

I assure you the evidence presented is at least as strong as the evidence for a young Earth.

519

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat earth

« on: July 25, 2016, 08:53:44 PM »

Have you ever heard of a Gish gallop?  It seems they've evolved to Youtube form.

Well I'm bored so here goes:  Reverse order from 200 to 131 because well I don't have a reason for that actually.  Sorry for the formatting/grammar errors.  I banged it out kind of fast.

200,199,196 conclusions
198 assertion
197 assertion
195 false, overwhelming observation evidence
194 false analogy
193 assertion
191 assertion
190 non sequiter
189 this really isn't proof, the shape of the earth isn't particulary important until a civlization becomes sea-faring.
188 pendantics/assertion
187 false, the rotation of the earth is slowing down https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_rotation
186,185,158,157 not how physics works, http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/einsteinlight/jw/module1_Inertial.htm

flight
I could spend a lot of time picking these apart but I don't need to.  I just need one single flight that crosses the south pole http://www.adventure-network.com/experiences/south-pole-flights
184,183,182,181,180,179,

178 Strawman, nobody uses google earth as a logical proof.
177 completely out of context.
176,173,171 as flat earthers are so quick to point out, a photograph isn't the same thing as proof
175  jpeg compression artifacts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_artifact.  Try downloading the uncompressed version.
174 Citation please? 
172 video link?  The iss has a constant live feed, it orbits pretty quick but you can see the clouds changing shape.
170 false.  The iss can be discerned with binoculars.
169 false.  https://www.mydish.com/support/installation-manuals-page
168 citation?  My guess, they use cell towers as a fallback when weather conditions are poor.  Therefore they would seem to perform worse in rural areas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_Internet_access.  The flip side of this is if there are no cell towers how are they getting a connection.
167 The thermosphere is 85km above the Earth.  Low earth orbtit is around 2000km. 
166 non sequiter
165 buy a cheap telescope from wallmart and go to http://www.isstracker.com/ if you want to check this out yourself.
164 Are the footage of space walks and walking on the lunar surface also shot in a vomit comet?
163 Citation
162 Rockets are normally launched to get something into orbit.  Going straight up and then curving to achieve orbit is the most efficient use of fuel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_launch.
161 that's not how flight work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight
160 that's not how rockets work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket
159 that's not how gravity works https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity
156 Were they 10km up? http://www.howitworksdaily.com/how-high-do-you-have-to-go-to-see-the-curvature-of-the-earth/.  Otherwise this is a non sequiter
155 If the curved glass made a difference you would see it at ground level too.  Check your math on the horizon argument.
154 The red bull dive was a publicity stunt so they used a fish angle lens.  I don't recall them stating that the intention was to prove the earth was round.  Your math is still off on the horizon bit.
153,152  Non sequiter.  I live in a valley, does that mean the Earth is really a bowl?
151 check your math.  It technically is slightly irregular, the extreme distances just obscure that.
150 I'm quite sure you mean Sigma Octantis if you're seeing it from the southern hemisphere.  Check your constellations around it if you're in doubt.
149 They don't remain fixed.  They only seem like they do because of the extreme distances.
148 Ehh could somebody decode this?  I can't quite make sense out of it.
147 I don't know who measured this but I think they need to recheck their results.  Triangulating the distances using just a pole of a known height at 2 far enough places on the globe will indicate that one is much closer than the other.
146 Maybe I'm missing something but I'm not sure how this is proof of anything if it's true.
145 I don't know what photos you're looking at but it really looks like a sphere.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_locking read it and enjoy one of the marvels of the sky.  Why would observers in the southern hemisphere see a slightly different side?  Also why in a flat earth would the moon suddenly turn upside down when you're at the outer edge.  FE kind of shoots itself in the foot with some of these points.
144 link? I can't seem to find this.
143 If we had no atmosphere then yes. 
142 assertion.  Math, citations?
141 the toilets flushing a different direction are a popular misconception.  The coriolis effect just isn't that strong.  It is a thing though.  You can see for yourself http://www.carolina.com/teacher-resources/Interactive/modeling-the-coriolis-effect/tr10643.tr
140 That's not how a Foucault pendulum works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum
139 Rowbotham botched this experiment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_Level_experiment He failed to take into account atmospheric refraction.  This is actually pretty easy to test at home.  Get a friend, a pair of bionoculars, go to the nearest lake larger than a few miles, get your friend to stand on the shore on the other side and see if you can see his feet or not.
138 The perspective argument is a bit of a red herring here.  Get a telescope with variable zoom.  Go to a port.  Zoom in and out on ships leaving the shore.
137,136 God damnit!  You're going to make me read up on eclipses?  I'll have to get back to you on this one.
135 Yeah I'm going to need a link to that data.  It sounds like another botched experiment.
134 That's not how reflection work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflection_(physics)
133 Moonlight is a whole hell of a lot weaker than sunlight.  The moon actually cooling things?  That's an experiment that no one can seem to reproduce. http://www.physicscentral.com/buzz/blog/index.cfm?postid=1590436706491009951
132,131  I can't even...
 

520

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Do any flat earth believers use sattelite TV?

« on: July 23, 2016, 09:42:07 PM »

When you get down to it it seems that trigonometry is the bane of flat earth theory. All you need is a couple of friends on different parts of the world and a few $80 telescopes from Walmart and with trigonometry you can verify the shape of the Earth.

I think flat earthers should be putting a lot more work into attacking high school math.

Hey
The thing is I dont need to verify as I know the earth is flat... just trying to figure out how they finally made it with Digital TV.
At some point as many Flat-earthers, I imagined they used Skywave propagation...nice and easy... except that this method does not work with signals beyond 320 MHz !
So how do you do when your signal is 10 GHz ?
You still need satellites :

   

Take a look !  that's the trick :-)

Oh you're trying to resolve the idea of getting radio signals from the sky with FE? First off I don't entirely understand why satellites are a problem in FE but I guess that's a topic for another thread.

I think I posted this elsewhere but here's a way you could make satellite TV fit with the whole no satellite thing: there are transmitters beyond the antarctic ice wall. The signal they broadcast is reflected off the dome so it only looks like it's coming from space.