The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Projects => Topic started by: nickrulercreator on January 02, 2018, 05:29:46 PM
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I have noticed an error in your wiki on this page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy (https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy) made by Tom Bishop
You claim that the LRV seems to be still packaged in the LM, yet there are tracks in the surface from the rover (photo AS17-140-21370). This is simply untrue. The LRV was taken out when this photo was taken. In the photo before (AS17-140-21369), the LRV is clearly seen: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg)
In fact, in many photos taken before 21370, the LRV can be seen, in 21368: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg), 21367: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg)
Probably the biggest contender that this photo was not taken before the LRV was deployed, is that this photo, along with the others linked here, was taken during the 3rd EVA. The LRV was deployed in the first. There are numerous magazines from the first and second EVAs that show this.
Lastly, and this has been added on as an edit, is that Tom has the completely wrong compartment. He is claiming that the compartment left of the ladder (if facing the ladder) is the one holding the LRV. It would seem this way, with the big boxy thing sticking out of it, but that is not true. That is the MESA or the Modular Equipment Stowage Assembly. It held scientific equipment. The LRV was actually kept in the compartment just to the right of the ladder. This can be seen in the diagrams of the descent stage: http://www.collectspace.com//review/mikej/lm-descent.jpg (http://www.collectspace.com//review/mikej/lm-descent.jpg), in a simulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNhUNROV5U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNhUNROV5U), in the testing of the unfolding on earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEjEEfnBj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEjEEfnBj8), and, most importantly, in original videos from Apollo 15's unpacking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHF5EcdLxQo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHF5EcdLxQo). It appears to me that Tom has mixed up the compartment that the LRV is held in. This mistake should be corrected by deleting the section entirely, as there is no problem that Tom claims.
I suspect some lying is being done by the flat-earthers or not enough research was done.
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44 views and no replies, and the wiki hasn't been fixed. Is anyone there?
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Crickets is all you're likely to hear. These are extremely smart and busy people. Do you think they have time for silly stuff like making sure their wiki's correct?
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44 views and no replies, and the wiki hasn't been fixed. Is anyone there?
Please don't spam just to point out no one has responded in a timeframe acceptable to you (in this case ~8 hours). Warned.
Crickets is all you're likely to hear. These are extremely smart and busy people. Do you think they have time for silly stuff like making sure their wiki's correct?
1) Not many people are actively editing the wiki. If it is a valid concern, someone will get around to it.
2) Refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. Warned.
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Crickets is all you're likely to hear. These are extremely smart and busy people. Do you think they have time for silly stuff like making sure their wiki's correct?
1) Not many people are actively editing the wiki. If it is a valid concern, someone will get around to it.
2) Refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. Warned.
Ok. But buddy asked a question, I thought I gave him an honest answer. Which part of my answer wasn't true?
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Crickets is all you're likely to hear. These are extremely smart and busy people. Do you think they have time for silly stuff like making sure their wiki's correct?
1) Not many people are actively editing the wiki. If it is a valid concern, someone will get around to it.
2) Refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. Warned.
Ok. But buddy asked a question, I thought I gave him an honest answer. Which part of my answer wasn't true?
Last warning. Brief vacation next.
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44 views and no replies, and the wiki hasn't been fixed. Is anyone there?
Please don't spam just to point out no one has responded in a timeframe acceptable to you (in this case ~8 hours). Warned.
Now, hold on, how was I spamming? I agree with Boots in that I was just asking a question. I thought flat-earthers liked the "truth" and wanted to ensure that it is well spread. I pointed out a flaw, and when I was clearly ignored, or just not bothered with, I asked if this matter was going to be taken seriously and/or corrected. I feel like me pointing out an error to you is beneficial as it helps to ensure that TFES (which I disagree with) contains high-quality content.
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44 views and no replies, and the wiki hasn't been fixed. Is anyone there?
Please don't spam just to point out no one has responded in a timeframe acceptable to you (in this case ~8 hours). Warned.
Now, hold on, how was I spamming? I agree with Boots in that I was just asking a question. I thought flat-earthers liked the "truth" and wanted to ensure that it is well spread. I pointed out a flaw, and when I was clearly ignored, or just not bothered with, I asked if this matter was going to be taken seriously and/or corrected. I feel like me pointing out an error to you is beneficial as it helps to ensure that TFES (which I disagree with) contains high-quality content.
Bumping a thread hours after it is created to add nothing but a complaint about no one responding is spam. If you have an issue with moderation, take it to S&C as this is not the place to argue moderation.
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I have noticed an error in your wiki on this page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy (https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy) made by Tom Bishop
You claim that the LRV seems to be still packaged in the LM, yet there are tracks in the surface from the rover (photo AS17-140-21370). This is simply untrue. The LRV was taken out when this photo was taken. In the photo before (AS17-140-21369), the LRV is clearly seen: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg)
In fact, in many photos taken before 21370, the LRV can be seen, in 21368: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg), 21367: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg)
Probably the biggest contender that this photo was not taken before the LRV was deployed, is that this photo, along with the others linked here, was taken during the 3rd EVA. The LRV was deployed in the first. There are numerous magazines from the first and second EVAs that show this.
I suspect some lying is being done by the flat-earthers, or not enough research was done. :o
In the original image on the Wiki page we see that there has been a rover making tracks next to the packed rover. The fact that you were able to find pictures of the deployed rover that come before pictures of a packed rover only furthers the argument in the Wiki and does nothing to contradict it.
You have done nothing except better showcase the continuity errors for us. So what are we supposed to explain?
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Wait, so your argument boils down to the assumption that a photo with a lower number was chronologically taken before the one with a higher number.
Other than "the space man said so", do you have any reason to believe that this is the case?
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I have noticed an error in your wiki on this page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy (https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy) made by Tom Bishop
You claim that the LRV seems to be still packaged in the LM, yet there are tracks in the surface from the rover (photo AS17-140-21370). This is simply untrue. The LRV was taken out when this photo was taken. In the photo before (AS17-140-21369), the LRV is clearly seen: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg)
In fact, in many photos taken before 21370, the LRV can be seen, in 21368: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg), 21367: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg)
Probably the biggest contender that this photo was not taken before the LRV was deployed, is that this photo, along with the others linked here, was taken during the 3rd EVA. The LRV was deployed in the first. There are numerous magazines from the first and second EVAs that show this.
I suspect some lying is being done by the flat-earthers, or not enough research was done. :o
In the original im image on the Wiki page we see that there has been a rover there next to the packed rover, based on the tracks in the dirt. The fact that you were able to find pictures of the deployed rover that come before pictures of a packed rover only furthers the argument in the Wiki and does nothing to contradict it.
You have done nothing except better showcase the continuity errors for us. So what are we supposed to explain?
Except that the rover wasn't packed? You have the wrong compartment, Tom. If facing the ladder of the LM, the rover was packed to the right section of it. This can be seen in diagrams of the design: http://www.collectspace.com//review/mikej/lm-descent.jpg (http://www.collectspace.com//review/mikej/lm-descent.jpg), in a simulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNhUNROV5U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNhUNROV5U), in the testing of the unfolding on earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEjEEfnBj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEjEEfnBj8), and, most importantly, in original videos from Apollo 15's unpacking:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHF5EcdLxQo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHF5EcdLxQo)
Don't try to fool me, the thing you're claiming to be the packed rover is NOT the rover, it is the Modular Equipment Stowage Assembly, or MESA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module#Descent_stage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module#Descent_stage). This was packed to the LEFT of the ladder, in a package. When opened, the package is unfurlled. It can be closed again, though.
So, again, you're wrong. You're making claims without knowledge in the actual design of the LM. The rover was not in the front-left compartment, which you claim it to be, it was in the front-right.
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Wait, so your argument boils down to the assumption that a photo with a lower number was chronologically taken before the one with a higher number.
Other than "the space man said so", do you have any reason to believe that this is the case?
Oh boy conspiracehhh.
No, my argument is based down to Tom being wrong. First, we know that this image was taken in EVA 3, and the rover was unpacked in EVA 1. Second, we know that, even if other photos were taken after this one that is labeled as before, they were still taken within a few seconds of each other. Just look at the photos. If that isn't enough evidence that Tom (or you) is wrong, check out my most recent reply (the one to Tom). The claim of Tom is that the rover is packed into the compartment left of the ladder when in reality, that is the MESA, and the rover was packed to the right of the ladder. It doesn't matter the order of the photos, there's still other evidence.
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Oh boy conspiracehhh.
If you don't have anything to say, please don't say anything. Unless you're in CN. Say as much as you want there.
No, my argument is based down to Tom being wrong.
I see. Well, my counter-argument is "no, you're wrong!!!!1!"
What you're saying is that Tom's interpretation of the situation contradicts NASA's official account. I simply can't figure out why you think this wasn't obvious, or needed voicing.
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Oh boy conspiracehhh.
If you don't have anything to say, please don't say anything. Unless you're in CN. Say as much as you want there.
I will not say anything if I don't have anything to say, but it seems like you're not adding much to this thread either.
No, my argument is based down to Tom being wrong.
I see. Well, my counter-argument is "no, you're wrong!!!!1!"
What you're saying is that Tom's interpretation of the situation contradicts NASA's official account. I simply can't figure out why you think this wasn't obvious, or needed voicing.
You claim I am wrong in my argument. Where? How? What's your evidence? Note: I am not claiming we landed on the moon (though that is my opinion, it is unimportant to the concerns of this thread), I'm simply pointing out an error made by Tom and showed him how it was wrong. Why am I wrong?
I'm not saying Tom's interpretation contradicts NASA, I'm simply stating he made a mistake and confused one section of the LM with another. Thus, he should correct his error. I don't believe Tom has a deliberately different view against NASA in this case (though he does in general), I'm stating he just used wrong information. This is obvious, as I pointed out, and I decided it required voicing because it was an error that needed to be fixed. I don't understand why I am receiving ridicule and backlash for pointing out a technical error in your prized wiki made by Tom, and, thus, helping you flat earthers to fix it.
Tom's claim matches no records and contradicts the facts. He made an error. I pointed this error out. I showed why it's wrong and provided significant evidence. He thought the left-hand side was the LM compartment when it was the right-hand side. I'm trying to be friendly here.
Edit: this is my 42nd post and it will be dubbed as the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
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I have noticed an error in your wiki on this page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy (https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy) made by Tom Bishop
You claim that the LRV seems to be still packaged in the LM, yet there are tracks in the surface from the rover (photo AS17-140-21370). This is simply untrue. The LRV was taken out when this photo was taken. In the photo before (AS17-140-21369), the LRV is clearly seen: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg)
In fact, in many photos taken before 21370, the LRV can be seen, in 21368: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg), 21367: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg)
Probably the biggest contender that this photo was not taken before the LRV was deployed, is that this photo, along with the others linked here, was taken during the 3rd EVA. The LRV was deployed in the first. There are numerous magazines from the first and second EVAs that show this.
Lastly, and this has been added on as an edit, is that Tom has the completely wrong compartment. He is claiming that the compartment left of the ladder (if facing the ladder) is the one holding the LRV. It would seem this way, with the big boxy thing sticking out of it, but that is not true. That is the MESA or the Modular Equipment Stowage Assembly. It held scientific equipment. The LRV was actually kept in the compartment just to the right of the ladder. This can be seen in the diagrams of the descent stage: http://www.collectspace.com//review/mikej/lm-descent.jpg (http://www.collectspace.com//review/mikej/lm-descent.jpg), in a simulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNhUNROV5U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNhUNROV5U), in the testing of the unfolding on earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEjEEfnBj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEjEEfnBj8), and, most importantly, in original videos from Apollo 15's unpacking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHF5EcdLxQo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHF5EcdLxQo). It appears to me that Tom has mixed up the compartment that the LRV is held in. This mistake should be corrected by deleting the section entirely, as there is no problem that Tom claims.
I suspect some lying is being done by the flat-earthers or not enough research was done.
Here is a video confirming the location of the rover on the LEM. To the right of the ladder looking at the LEM.
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I have noticed an error in your wiki on this page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy (https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems#Unpacked_Moonbuggy) made by Tom Bishop
You claim that the LRV seems to be still packaged in the LM, yet there are tracks in the surface from the rover (photo AS17-140-21370). This is simply untrue. The LRV was taken out when this photo was taken. In the photo before (AS17-140-21369), the LRV is clearly seen: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21369HR.jpg)
In fact, in many photos taken before 21370, the LRV can be seen, in 21368: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21368HR.jpg), 21367: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-140-21367HR.jpg)
Probably the biggest contender that this photo was not taken before the LRV was deployed, is that this photo, along with the others linked here, was taken during the 3rd EVA. The LRV was deployed in the first. There are numerous magazines from the first and second EVAs that show this.
Lastly, and this has been added on as an edit, is that Tom has the completely wrong compartment. He is claiming that the compartment left of the ladder (if facing the ladder) is the one holding the LRV. It would seem this way, with the big boxy thing sticking out of it, but that is not true. That is the MESA or the Modular Equipment Stowage Assembly. It held scientific equipment. The LRV was actually kept in the compartment just to the right of the ladder. This can be seen in the diagrams of the descent stage: http://www.collectspace.com//review/mikej/lm-descent.jpg (http://www.collectspace.com//review/mikej/lm-descent.jpg), in a simulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNhUNROV5U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNhUNROV5U), in the testing of the unfolding on earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEjEEfnBj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEjEEfnBj8), and, most importantly, in original videos from Apollo 15's unpacking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHF5EcdLxQo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHF5EcdLxQo). It appears to me that Tom has mixed up the compartment that the LRV is held in. This mistake should be corrected by deleting the section entirely, as there is no problem that Tom claims.
I suspect some lying is being done by the flat-earthers or not enough research was done.
Here is a video confirming the location of the rover on the LEM. To the right of the ladder looking at the LEM.
Yep, this is the video I referenced earlier. It shows that Tom Bishop was wrong, and should address this matter. Would he need anymore proof? Is it better to just PM him instead?
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It is fine to bring these things up here in threads. The first argument you made was that there are pictures of the unpacked Rover before the packed rover. This argument was bad because the point of the section in the Wiki is that there are continuity errors.
Your second argument was that the package was not the Rover at all, and the rover-looking package was likely something else. This is a more valid argument, and I agree with it. I agree that the Wiki should be corrected.
Thank you.
Edit: I have now edited that portion out. Any further comments are welcome.
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It is fine to bring these things up here in threads. The first argument you made was that there are pictures of the unpacked Rover before the packed rover. This argument was bad because the point of the section in the Wiki is that there are continuity errors.
Your second argument was that the package was not the Rover at all, and the rover-looking package was likely something else. This is a more valid argument, and I agree with it. I agree that the Wiki should be corrected.
Thank you.
Edit: I have now edited that portion out. Any further comments are welcome.
wow, thank you, Tom. Glad to help out. I'll go back and see if there's any more errors that could be corrected.
Edit: Ok, I think I found something: https://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander (https://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander)
While this isn't exactly wrong, it isn't right. For starters, no real evidence is given to suggest that the lander was faked, or couldn't work, etc. The entire argument is "look at it, it doesn't SEEM right, which means it can't be right. right?"
Well, I would like to argue this. That, isn't the actual part of the LM that held the people. YES, it is on the ascent module, but inside the LM is a rather solid, strong aluminum frame: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-06.jpg (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-06.jpg) and: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-11.jpg (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-11.jpg) and: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6785.0;attach=18404;image (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6785.0;attach=18404;image) and: https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1db85cf4b2cd44e5e0e4d4eaf864bd79-c (https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1db85cf4b2cd44e5e0e4d4eaf864bd79-c) and: https://history.msfc.nasa.gov/saturn_apollo/photos/images/apollo17_GRIN-000640.jpg (https://history.msfc.nasa.gov/saturn_apollo/photos/images/apollo17_GRIN-000640.jpg)
Quite like the command module, the LM that you see is just its outside covering. The CM inside its cover, when stripped down, looks like this: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4009/images/1-158b.gif (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4009/images/1-158b.gif) and: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg) and then this: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg) and then this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/View_of_Spacecraft_012_Command_Module_during_installation_of_heat_shield_%28small_image%29.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/View_of_Spacecraft_012_Command_Module_during_installation_of_heat_shield_%28small_image%29.jpg) and finally this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Seattle_Apollo_command_module.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Seattle_Apollo_command_module.jpg) and this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Apollo_CSM_lunar_orbit.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Apollo_CSM_lunar_orbit.jpg)
Essentially, you're ignoring the framing of the LM. The outer covering was the layers of mylar foil used for heat and thermal control, as well as partial micrometeorite shielding. This isn't exactly the most scientific, or reliable argument, for flat earthers. I'm not saying this has to be taken down, but it isn't exactly necessary.
EDIT 2:
I have spotted another in this page, at the bottom "floating moonbuggy" section: https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems (https://wiki.tfes.org/Apollo_Moonbuggy_Problems)
While it may look like the buggy is floating, this isn't the case. In another photo of the same scene (AS15-86-11659): https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-86-11659HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-86-11659HR.jpg) it is clearly seen the front left wheel is on the rock that the photo is being taken from, causing the back left to be lifted as well
You also say that a photo taken of the rover off the ground may be evidence that it was lowered onto set. To this, I ask: why release these photos to the public? There are multiple photos of the rover off the ground. Why would NASA allow this to occur? Where's the shadow, or any evidence, of some crane lowering the rover?
Additionally, I've spotted another error. Same page, but "missing tracks" section.
While it is reasonable that some photos of missing tracks are suspicious, it doesn't mean hoax. In fact, it's easily answerable. The rover covers it's tracks sometimes. If moving slow, the dust propelled out the back of the wheels hits the back dust flap on the wheel frame, falling down behind the wheel. In fact, there's a photo showing this in action: https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMirrorCache/static.ddmcdn.com_gif_lunar_rover_11_130731.jpg (https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMirrorCache/static.ddmcdn.com_gif_lunar_rover_11_130731.jpg) look at very backs of each wheel. See the dust falling?
Also, there are a plethora of photos of the tracks as well, yet no evidence that it was lowered on a crane. And yes, it would be possible for the astronauts to cover SOME of the tracks. Not all, of course, but for many close to the rover, not in the far surrounding land. But, here are many photos of the tracks there:
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11055HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11055HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11060HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11060HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11063HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11063HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11069HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11069HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11091HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11091HR.jpg) (for this one, notice how the tracks right behind the rover are covered, but the ones further back aren't? this could be evidence to the above arguments)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11092HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11092HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11108HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11108HR.jpg) (hard to see, but they're there)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11120HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11120HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11169HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11169HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11170HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11170HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11195HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11195HR.jpg) (wow!)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11402HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11402HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11403HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11403HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11413HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11413HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11422HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11422HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11423HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11423HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11430HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11430HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11431HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11431HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11437HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11437HR.jpg)
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11438HR.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-85-11438HR.jpg)
and there are many, many more. These are all from just Apollo 15, too. There's yet more from A15, and then 16 and 17. There'd be too many links for this thread if I was to post them all, but feel free to check the ALSJ if you'd like to see the rest.
EDIT 4:
Another one. The link is listed as "NASA sends Neil and Buzz around to give foreign heads of states fake moon rocks": https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2009-08-27-moon-rock-museum_N.htm (https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2009-08-27-moon-rock-museum_N.htm)
This has been greatly debunked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHALUGcEEiQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHALUGcEEiQ) and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGQhArtFqIM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGQhArtFqIM)
Essentially, the moon rock was never actually claimed to be a rock, nor did it match any of the other samples given to the other countries on the tour. I suggest watching both videos, they're very informative.
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I have found a few more errors or discrepancies.
These are all under the "The Conspiracy Section": https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy
First, the Cassini Mission Section. The second link, the one to the youtube video, has been compromised, because the video was removed from youtube.
As for the first link, the answer to your claims can be found at the bottom of the article. I'll quote it here:
The person responsible for the manipulation, Emily Lakdawalla, told a forum of excitable theorists that she made the changes because of the way Cassini takes photos.
"Cassini takes colour pictures by snapping three sequential photos through red, green, and blue filters," she said.
"In the time that separated the three frames, Dione moved, so if I did a simple color composite I would be able to make Titan look right, but not Dione; or Dione look right, but not Titan.
"So I aligned Dione, cut it out, and then aligned Titan, and then had to account for the missing bits of shadow where the bits of Dione had been in two of the three channels."
Next is the ISS section.
The second link of yours leads to a page with photos, claiming the earth's curve is not uniform. This is clearly due to the fisheye effect of the wide-angle lens. The curvature of the earth is simply being slightly changed by the effect near the edge of the frame.
The Third link's claim is easy to explain. It's called the dolly zoom effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_zoom Essentially, the photo of the station showing the apparently very close earth behind it, was taken from a far distance away. The photographer wanted to keep the ISS large in the frame, so he/she zoomed in onto it. As a result, the field of view narrowed, cutting off much of the surrounding background, showing less of the earth. For the other photos, where it shows much of the earth from the same altitude, this is simply because the camera is zoomed out. If, say, you wanted to take another photo of the ISS, but you were close to it, you'd zoom out. This would open the field of view, causing the background to be more visible to the camera.
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Edit: Ok, I think I found something: https://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander (https://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander)
While this isn't exactly wrong, it isn't right. For starters, no real evidence is given to suggest that the lander was faked, or couldn't work, etc. The entire argument is "look at it, it doesn't SEEM right, which means it can't be right. right?"
Well, I would like to argue this. That, isn't the actual part of the LM that held the people. YES, it is on the ascent module, but inside the LM is a rather solid, strong aluminum frame: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-06.jpg (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-06.jpg) and: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-11.jpg (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-11.jpg) and: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6785.0;attach=18404;image (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6785.0;attach=18404;image) and: https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1db85cf4b2cd44e5e0e4d4eaf864bd79-c (https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1db85cf4b2cd44e5e0e4d4eaf864bd79-c) and: https://history.msfc.nasa.gov/saturn_apollo/photos/images/apollo17_GRIN-000640.jpg (https://history.msfc.nasa.gov/saturn_apollo/photos/images/apollo17_GRIN-000640.jpg)
Quite like the command module, the LM that you see is just its outside covering. The CM inside its cover, when stripped down, looks like this: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4009/images/1-158b.gif (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4009/images/1-158b.gif) and: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg) and then this: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg) and then this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/View_of_Spacecraft_012_Command_Module_during_installation_of_heat_shield_%28small_image%29.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/View_of_Spacecraft_012_Command_Module_during_installation_of_heat_shield_%28small_image%29.jpg) and finally this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Seattle_Apollo_command_module.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Seattle_Apollo_command_module.jpg) and this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Apollo_CSM_lunar_orbit.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Apollo_CSM_lunar_orbit.jpg)
Essentially, you're ignoring the framing of the LM. The outer covering was the layers of mylar foil used for heat and thermal control, as well as partial micrometeorite shielding. This isn't exactly the most scientific, or reliable argument, for flat earthers. I'm not saying this has to be taken down, but it isn't exactly necessary.
Even if you think that there is a real space ship beneath it, the outer heat shielding is still an essential part of the lander. The fact that it appears so shoddily put together, and is affixed with tape, is a valid point. The outer white exterior insulation walls of the craft are not even properly fitted together. There are gaps all over the place.
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Edit: Ok, I think I found something: https://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander (https://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander)
While this isn't exactly wrong, it isn't right. For starters, no real evidence is given to suggest that the lander was faked, or couldn't work, etc. The entire argument is "look at it, it doesn't SEEM right, which means it can't be right. right?"
Well, I would like to argue this. That, isn't the actual part of the LM that held the people. YES, it is on the ascent module, but inside the LM is a rather solid, strong aluminum frame: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-06.jpg (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-06.jpg) and: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-11.jpg (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-11.jpg) and: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6785.0;attach=18404;image (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6785.0;attach=18404;image) and: https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1db85cf4b2cd44e5e0e4d4eaf864bd79-c (https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1db85cf4b2cd44e5e0e4d4eaf864bd79-c) and: https://history.msfc.nasa.gov/saturn_apollo/photos/images/apollo17_GRIN-000640.jpg (https://history.msfc.nasa.gov/saturn_apollo/photos/images/apollo17_GRIN-000640.jpg)
Quite like the command module, the LM that you see is just its outside covering. The CM inside its cover, when stripped down, looks like this: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4009/images/1-158b.gif (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4009/images/1-158b.gif) and: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg) and then this: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-4205/images/c095b.jpg) and then this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/View_of_Spacecraft_012_Command_Module_during_installation_of_heat_shield_%28small_image%29.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/View_of_Spacecraft_012_Command_Module_during_installation_of_heat_shield_%28small_image%29.jpg) and finally this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Seattle_Apollo_command_module.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Seattle_Apollo_command_module.jpg) and this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Apollo_CSM_lunar_orbit.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Apollo_CSM_lunar_orbit.jpg)
Essentially, you're ignoring the framing of the LM. The outer covering was the layers of mylar foil used for heat and thermal control, as well as partial micrometeorite shielding. This isn't exactly the most scientific, or reliable argument, for flat earthers. I'm not saying this has to be taken down, but it isn't exactly necessary.
Even if you think that there is a real space ship beneath it, the outer heat shielding is still an essential part of the lander. The fact that it appears so shoddily put together, and is affixed with tape, is a valid point. The outer white exterior insulation walls of the craft are not even properly fitted together. There are gaps all over the place.
But Tom, there's reasons you're wrong. Sure, it looks poorly put together, but it really isn't. The outer layer was simply there to provide insulation. The LM itself, without the layers, already was able to regulate heat well. The outer layers were just there as added effect for the ascent stage, and some radiation protection. They weren't needed for structural integrity, or even to hold the air inside the LM. There's no reason gaps can't be there, since convection doesn't exist in a vacuum, so heat can't escape through the gaps.
The LM was built, like everything else, to be as light as possible. Because the LM operated in a vacuum, many parts didn't need to be sturdy. The sturdy part of the LM was taken care of by the aluminum frame. The LM didn't deal with drag from an atmosphere either. In fact, the descent stage was actually designed so that it would buckle during the landing, so it can absorb the impact. This caused the outer layer to bend slightly, but it did not come loose, causing it to appear folded in the picture. The descent stage was only going to be used once, so after its job was completed, the outer layer wasn't necessary. Additionally, the outer part of the LM wasn't just one layer. It was many very thin layers. The layers had few contact points between each other to ensure that heat would not be transferred between them by conduction. The black material on the descent stage were thin Inconel sheets. These were the outermost layer, and were painted black to improve heat emission. Beneath this layer were reflective layers, usually Mylar, that prevented the heat of the black layer to enter the LM.
The golden foil was kapton multi-layer blankets. High reflectivity was the most effective method of regulating heat inside the LM, so the foil was put only where the reflection was needed most. Because there's no air in space for convection, if you lower the absorption of heat by making surfaces reflective, and you reduce contact points to pass heat by conduction, insulation is effective. To reduce contact points, the inner layer of the foil blankets was hand-crinkled. This provided a path for venting as well. The crinkling of the inner layer is bound to make the outer layer seem uneven. But it didn't need to be even, or even attached, as it didn't serve any purpose to the structural integrity, or air-tightness of the actual LM. It simply acted as a thermal covering.
The rest is simply to protect from micro meteoroids, the effects of the radiation, etc. It only needed to serve its job.
As for your "tape," yes, it was held with tape. But not duct tape or scotch tape. It's called industrial tape. It's specifically designed to be used for projects like this, and is commonly used in many Earth construction sites, models, buildings, etc. It's a much stronger tape than anything you'd commonly find around your house.
If you'd like to read a bit more about the thermal protection, here's a quick article: http://home.earthlink.net/~pfjeld/lmdata/
And if you want more on the LM, here's a quite detailed report: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/LM04_Lunar_Module_ppLV1-17.pdf