Flat Earth scientists
« on: January 15, 2016, 01:55:03 AM »
Is there any sort of organized science group amongst flat earth believers. By this I mean people who present properly written science papers and put them up to be reviewed by peers and the science community, Who then can have there ideas be properly tested to decide if they are accurate or don't hold up. I feel like these should be steps taken if there are not already to get the flat earth ideas turned into actual scientific theory.

just to clarify scientific theory isn't just an idea someone has.

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.
You do not have to attack me, I'm never trying to be rude or insensitive. If it seems that way its a mistake please correct me politely.

Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Re: Flat Earth scientists
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2016, 03:37:13 AM »
The flat Earthers in this site call them self Zeteticist, who uses this "Zetetic" method instead of Scientific method.
They claimed it's superior than the Scientific method.
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Flat Earth scientists
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2016, 06:24:10 AM »
A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.

The so-called "scientific method" involves making wild assumptions about the world and "substantiating" them through cognitive bias. This is how you reach conclusions that are totally cray, like the Earth being a globe.

The Zetetic method skips the suspect hypothesizing phase and moves immediately on to what can be directly observed and determined via experimentation. If you're interested in experiencing some good, solid, Zetetic literature, I recommend you try Earth Not A Globe by Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham.

ENAG doesn't really address the Zetetic method  or philosophy in any depth,   "good solid"  it's not.   misleading,  deliberate obfustication  and severely lacking is closer to the mark.
 
There must be a  good reference on the Zetetic method somewhere.   



Re: Flat Earth scientists
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2016, 08:27:45 PM »
I'm curious about this Zetetic method, Can you give me an example of how the process works in detail, and a time it was used.  I did a quick google search to get the proper steps for the scientific method and found this:

Ask a Question
◦Do Background Research
◦Construct a Hypothesis
◦Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
◦Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
◦Communicate Your Results

•It is important for your experiment to be a fair test. A "fair test" occurs when you change only one factor (variable) and keep all other conditions the same

What is the step process for the zetetic method?


You do not have to attack me, I'm never trying to be rude or insensitive. If it seems that way its a mistake please correct me politely.

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Flat Earth scientists
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2016, 05:47:48 AM »
I'm curious about this Zetetic method, Can you give me an example of how the process works in detail, and a time it was used. 

Sure. Look up the Bedford Level Experiment. It's featured on our wiki.

What is the step process for the zetetic method?

I've adjusted what you posted so that it would be in line with the Zetetic method:

Ask a Question
◦Do Background Research
Construct a Hypothesis
Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
◦Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
◦Communicate Your Results

I hope that helps.

You picked the Bedford Level Experiment as a good example of the Zetetic method?   Are you aware that that particular experiment proved the Zetetic method to be flawed.

Refer to http://wiki.tfes.org/Bedford_Level_Experiment

Where it says the definitive experiment was carried out in 1901 by Henry Yule Oldham.    Guess what the results of his experiments were..   Here is an overview.

The Bedford Level experiment

In 1838 Samuel Rowbotham of the Flat Earth Society had demonstrated that a six-mile length of the Old Bedford River, Cambridgeshire, had a flat surface and not, as would be expected if the earth were a sphere, a curved one. In 1870 on the same spot the noted explorer Alfred Russel Wallace, a trained surveyor, soundly disproved the observation, but the mystery was not allowed to rest and Rowbotham's supporters continued to argue their case with great vigour in the courts, in scientific journals and in pamphlets.

In 1901 Oldham used a plate camera and theodolite for his careful observations along the length of the river and he presented his results at an illustrated lecture held at the British Association for the Advancement of Science.[5][6] His experiment, because of its photographic proof, is regarded as definitive and was taught in schools[7] until images taken from orbiting satellites became available.


So,  the Bedford Level Experiment is an experiment which finally proved to be a complete failure of Rowbotham's Zetetic method, and a definitive refutation of the flat earth theory.   As to why the TFES Wiki still refers to Henry Yule Oldham, is probably an editing oversight,  they usually like to cherry pick their facts.  Intellectual dishonesty at it's most corrosive.

It's a pity flat earthers don't bother to learn about refraction.

PS.  Here is the title of the report regarded by the TFES wiki as being the definitive Bedford Level Experiment. 

Oldham, H. Yule (1901). "The experimental demonstration of the curvature of the Earth's surface". Annual Report (London: British Association for the Advancement of Science): 725–6.

Sorry I don't have a copy of the paper,  but I would be interested if anyone can dig out a copy.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 06:49:12 AM by Rayzor »

Re: Flat Earth scientists
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2016, 05:55:21 PM »
I'm curious about this Zetetic method, Can you give me an example of how the process works in detail, and a time it was used. 

Sure. Look up the Bedford Level Experiment. It's featured on our wiki.

What is the step process for the zetetic method?

I've adjusted what you posted so that it would be in line with the Zetetic method:

Ask a Question
◦Do Background Research
Construct a Hypothesis
Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
◦Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
◦Communicate Your Results

I hope that helps.

Yes this did help thank you. I'm probably going to start a new thread on this topic once I get my thoughts together. I feel like both methods are different faces on the same coin and both can be handy.
You do not have to attack me, I'm never trying to be rude or insensitive. If it seems that way its a mistake please correct me politely.

Offline wtbofnc

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Re: Flat Earth scientists
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2016, 01:53:12 AM »
You gotta get off that scientific method stuff.  The data was compiled hundreds of years ago and is readily available in books. There are pyramids dedicated to the Flat Earth.  Everything you know is wrong, including the accreditation and certification process that scientists have spent most of their lives working for. Best thing for you to do is format and defrag.  Start over...

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Flat Earth scientists
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2016, 02:16:22 AM »
You gotta get off that scientific method stuff.  The data was compiled hundreds of years ago and is readily available in books. There are pyramids dedicated to the Flat Earth.  Everything you know is wrong, including the accreditation and certification process that scientists have spent most of their lives working for. Best thing for you to do is format and defrag.  Start over...

Well,  if you are going to format you can skip the defrag.   

I'm intrigued by your comment,  "There are pyramids dedicated to the Flat Earth"   Can you explain what you mean in a bit more detail.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 02:18:52 AM by Rayzor »

Re: Flat Earth scientists
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2016, 05:20:44 PM »
You gotta get off that scientific method stuff.  The data was compiled hundreds of years ago and is readily available in books. There are pyramids dedicated to the Flat Earth.  Everything you know is wrong, including the accreditation and certification process that scientists have spent most of their lives working for. Best thing for you to do is format and defrag.  Start over...

Well,  if you are going to format you can skip the defrag.   

I'm intrigued by your comment,  "There are pyramids dedicated to the Flat Earth"   Can you explain what you mean in a bit more detail.

He is either talking about the old tests that have been shown to be wrong with modern techniques or the wash of youtuber ramblings. just my guess' anyways.
You do not have to attack me, I'm never trying to be rude or insensitive. If it seems that way its a mistake please correct me politely.