So if I'm reading this right, you're basically making Booker T. Washington's argument that blacks can only achieve true equality with whites by earning it, right?
Close enough. I think that true equality can only be achieved if everyone works towards it, but I do think the majority of the work needs to be done by blacks. Not because it's just, not because it's righteous, but because it's the kind of work that nobody else can really do.
Through the example of Black British people, I'd like to say that I do not believe there is anything about black people that makes them inherently less capable. A Black British person is, for all intents and purposes, a British person whose skin happens to be black. They are just as educated, productive, and integrated into society as any other person might be.
Now, from my perspective, the three main issues African Americans need to tackle (and can mostly only do so themselves, although they can be helped) are education, poverty, and integration with the rest of American society. I'll try to elaborate on these to the best of my ability, bearing in mind that I've only spent a grand total of maybe half a year in America over multiple visits. A vast majority of what I'm going to say here is based on my personal experiences with African Americans, which may be incomplete and non-representative.
Education - Due to historical reasons (which are undeniably the fault of now-dead white people) there is a very large contingent of African American families without a good education. Of course, this is a difficult trend to overcome. My father was the first person to obtain higher education in what was previously a working class family, and I know he's had it tough. I can only imagine how much harder it must be for someone with so much history stacked against them. However, I don't believe there is much we can do to help them unless they go through the same motions everyone else trying to obtain an education goes through. If we make their degrees easier, they'll be less valuable. If we pay them to go to college, the system will be exploited. The process of educating an entire demographic is going to be extremely long and arduous, but it's already happening. What we need to do is ensure that these people are treated fairly - they should receive support, but only when this support is not unfair. Obviously, they should also not be discriminated against.
Productivity - A lot of this is related to education, but there are a few facets that this doesn't touch on. While this image may be somewhat controversial, I feel it touches on the subject quite well.
Unfortunately, the current situation means that the most vocal group of African Americans, the group that's most easily recognised and identified with the ethnicity as a whole, is a bunch of violent rioters demolishing each other's businesses, burning down towns, and looting stores. This is an enormous shame and a very harmful thing for everyone, regardless of race. It creates a divide, and it encourages racist thoughts even in those who may have previously not experienced them. Instead of glorifying the rioters and violence, I would like to encourage progressives to promote the rational black people. There have been so many wonderful examples of those recently. When I was watching the Ferguson riots live, there was this one guy who stood in front of the crowd as it was marching towards some restaurant, and he outright shouted something along the lines of "Don't touch this shit. This here is a good business, they have nothing to do with this. Leave them alone." The Baltimore riots had the angry mother who gave his son a piece of her mind when he decided to participate in the violent activities:
and the man who tried dividing the rioters from the police shouting "don't give them a reason":
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/do-not-give-them-a-reason-baltimore-man-divides-police-and-rioters-in-hope-of-avoiding-violence-10208720.htmlThose are great examples of mature, productive members of society who understand how basic shit works.
Those are the people who should be celebrated in this crisis. Not the crazed people jumping in through the window of a burning store and running away with stolen goods, and not the violent mobs kicking the shit out of police cars because they hate "The Man" so much.
We cannot judge these people any differently than we would white people. If they want an equal society, they can't have that excuse.
Integration - The African Americans feel an extremely strong sense of pride in their national identity. While that's fine in principle, it blinds them and stops many of them from being able to accept themselves as part of a diverse nation. In my (limited, but probably above-average) experience of various countries, I have never seen an ethnic group as rigidly divided from the country at large as African Americans. They refuse to speak the same language as others, they refuse to share their culture with others, and they demand special rights from others. This "us and them" mentality is, and always will be, an immediate barrier to equality, unless it is entirely abolished.
I can get behind that, to some extent. But my issue with it is that not much happened during Washington's time. It was only when Du Bois took over and the black rights movement became more militant that change started happening. It might be true that without the progress Washington made Du Bois and the NAACP never would have been successful, but I really don't think Washington's perspective alone is enough to change anything.
Washington's approach is the only way to achieve
actual equality. More militant actions took us where we are now - to the very brink of a class war. Yes, the alternative is slow and arduous, but it's the only real option we have.
Here's the way I think about race issues. At this point, it's more socio-economic than anything else. I'm sure we can all agree on that. There are large clusters of impoverished people in America, and those clusters are largely african american just because that's how it's always been. Kids in the inner cities are given worse educations and end up with learned helplessness, which (among various other factors) contributes to a self-perpetuating system of racial inequality.
Absolutely. That's exactly what it is, in my opinion.
Obviously poor people in the inner city are gonna be more violent and have higher rates of crime and substance abuse than over groups. Since poor people in the inner city are largely black, that translates to black populations having those same issues. That, in turn, leads to inherent biases and racist inclinations among both the the general population and (probably even more so) law enforcement. That translates to police discrimination against blacks, which leads to a) even more learned helplessness, which is most of the problem in the first place, and b) more police brutality toward blacks.
Yup. Still with you.
The research I've read on the issue suggests that police are faster to consider blacks threats, and faster to pull the trigger on them. That's a problem. (source). However, there's also evidence that in certain situations police will actually hesitate to pull the trigger on a minority due to fear of repurcussions (source). The second source is from after Ferguson and found that, although EEGs record more severe and immediate threat responses in simulations involving an african american, they hesitated slightly (22 ms) longer to shoot out of fear of consequences.
The above suggests that a) police discrimination is part of the problem, b) police discrimination is fixable, and
That's certainly a problem, but I don't think it can be tackled directly. It's a result of more deeply rooted issues. We can't stop people from wondering about whether or not black people are more likely to be criminals when they currently factually more often engage in criminal activity.
c) the current round of riots and protests is probably doing a lot to change the behaviors of police officers.
Yes, for the worse. I think Blanko (in my IRC quote) in spot-on: any progress that has been made towards ensuring equality between the races is currently being undone by black rioters and the liberal inciters of violence.
Pizza: what part of that opinion makes me insufferable? Or was that just my tone?
Part of it is your tone (but I can't fault you for that - my tone is
much worse, and I take an adjustment for that), but most of it is how dogmatic you are about your views. You seem to state as a matter of fact that African Americans currently suffer from enormous amounts of institutionalised racism, and that they're fighting for equality and acknowledgement.
However, after a careful consideration of the facts, it seems very clear that the riots are usually motivated by either personal gain or simple frustration with the quality of the rioters' lives, and usually have very little to do with the alleged subject matter. The Ferguson riots are the most obvious examples of that. Time and time again it has now been proved that Wilson was completely in the right. There's forensic evidence, there's the DoJ report, etc., etc. But none of that matters to the groups most commonly associated with the things you say.
Anyway, do you agree? I know you disagree that police discrimination is real, but at what point do our opinions start diverging?
I agree that there are
some racist issues in America. I could,
with extreme caution, consider the possibility that some of it is down to trace amounts of institutionalised racism still lurking somewhere within the system. I don't think that's the case, but I could entertain that thought.
You go much, much deeper than that, and many of the views you state come across as the "secret conspiracy of world-controlling racists" scenario you made fun of in your post. To me, it seems that what we disagree on is how systemic the problem is, and how to solve it. To me, the problem
is not systemic, and can only be solved through careful evolution of society. To you (as far as I can see), the problem
is systemic, and should be solved through a
revolution in society.