Dual1ty

Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2023, 11:59:37 PM »
Is there supposed to be something strange here? I’m not sure how a specific random image is relevant. You picked an image (out of thousands of similar images) where the ice (a fluid and changing element) is on a lower resolution layer than the ground layer (which is static). This image does not claim to be a photograph, it is in a map/diagram rendering style.

Nothing surprising about a model showing computer-generated sea ice. You know this sea ice exists on a flat earth too, right? Just as much as it would on a globe.

I understand that it's CGI and not a photograph - that's the point. Computer generated ice is not part of my reality, but it has to be part of yours if you're a globe believer (not to mention a computer generated Earth, planets, and everything else). It's obvious that they want you to think that there's nothing there but a bunch of ice and that there's nothing interesting to see. And I see that you're happy drinking that Kool-Aid but I'm not. I want full unconditional unrestricted exploration. By the people, not the governments. Antarctica as well.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2023, 09:34:09 AM by Dual1ty »

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Offline markjo

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Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2023, 12:00:48 AM »
Yes, it is RE at fault. In the 300 year history of this experiment no one has performed controlled experiments on this. No one thought to perform the experiment in a vacuum chamber. The excuse for this appears to be that no one thought that the atmosphere touched the scale.

It appears that this guy thought of it.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2023, 06:50:15 AM »

I'm not representing "RE", I'm representing a model of FE where gravity is caused by acceleration of the Ether like I already said. Supposedly that gravity causing element would be located at the North Pole as any magnetic compass indicates. But that area is completely off limits and no one is allowed to explore it, not to mention that the whole Arctic is heavily militarized and monitored and more so each day and therefore only the elites know what's actually there while we're left to fend against ourselves in forums engaging in endless debates... Sorry if I seem ranty, but isn't it true?

The whole thing is just a white smudge that a 5 year old could make in Photoshop. In other words, nothing to see there.

An interesting semi-rant. 

I think you actually know that gravity is not a function of magnetism, and that "any compass" only points at the North Pole because that end of the needle is painted red; the other end points South. 

"The whole Arctic is off-limits"?  By who?  It's outside any nation's jurisdiction. 

".... heavily militarized ...."?  By whom? 

"... more so each day..."?  Evidence? 

Anyone can fly over the Arctic by booking a flight from (say) Helsinki to Tokyo; then look out the window.  Anyone can travel to the Arctic, just don't forget your stout walking-shoes and polar bear repellent. 

You are PricelessPearl, and I claim my £5. 

Dual1ty

Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2023, 08:41:13 AM »

I'm not representing "RE", I'm representing a model of FE where gravity is caused by acceleration of the Ether like I already said. Supposedly that gravity causing element would be located at the North Pole as any magnetic compass indicates. But that area is completely off limits and no one is allowed to explore it, not to mention that the whole Arctic is heavily militarized and monitored and more so each day and therefore only the elites know what's actually there while we're left to fend against ourselves in forums engaging in endless debates... Sorry if I seem ranty, but isn't it true?

The whole thing is just a white smudge that a 5 year old could make in Photoshop. In other words, nothing to see there.

An interesting semi-rant. 

I think you actually know that gravity is not a function of magnetism, and that "any compass" only points at the North Pole because that end of the needle is painted red; the other end points South. 

"The whole Arctic is off-limits"?  By who?  It's outside any nation's jurisdiction. 

".... heavily militarized ...."?  By whom? 

"... more so each day..."?  Evidence? 

Anyone can fly over the Arctic by booking a flight from (say) Helsinki to Tokyo; then look out the window.  Anyone can travel to the Arctic, just don't forget your stout walking-shoes and polar bear repellent. 

You are PricelessPearl, and I claim my £5.

You're quoting things I didn't say, which is very naughty (dishonest) of you. I didn't say that "gravity is a function of magnetism" (although they are related), I said gravity is caused by acceleration of the Ether (what else?). I didn't say "the whole Arctic is off-limits", I said the North Pole is. And if you doubt that the Arctic is getting more militarized each day (a figure of speech, obviously) you just have to read some news yourself, I'm not going to read them for you.

I didn't get the "PricelessPearl and £5" part, I'll consider that a malfunction in your programming.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2023, 09:03:30 AM »
Yes, it is RE at fault. In the 300 year history of this experiment no one has performed controlled experiments on this. No one thought to perform the experiment in a vacuum chamber. The excuse for this appears to be that no one thought that the atmosphere touched the scale.

It appears that this guy thought of it.
Interesting. So according to Tom's Wiki page

Quote
It is known that that pressure is greater at the poles and lesser at the equator

So from the above experiment that lessening pressure should cause an increase in weight at the equator, but actually the experiments show the reverse.
But I await the results of Tom's controlled experiment.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline AATW

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Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2023, 09:07:42 AM »
I didn't say "the whole Arctic is off-limits", I said the North Pole is.
Nah. You can book a trip there
https://explore.polaradventure.com/northpole
You can to the South Pole too.
I mean, it's not cheap. It's pretty niche. But there are trips that go there.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Dual1ty

Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2023, 09:23:43 AM »
I didn't say "the whole Arctic is off-limits", I said the North Pole is.
Nah. You can book a trip there
https://explore.polaradventure.com/northpole
You can to the South Pole too.
I mean, it's not cheap. It's pretty niche. But there are trips that go there.

That is meaningless. I already said it: unconditional unrestricted access only. If you refuse to understand that, that's your problem.

Offline Action80

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Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2023, 11:30:43 AM »
I didn't say "the whole Arctic is off-limits", I said the North Pole is.
Nah. You can book a trip there
https://explore.polaradventure.com/northpole
You can to the South Pole too.
I mean, it's not cheap. It's pretty niche. But there are trips that go there.
A couple of questions:

Have you ever been there?

Once you arrived, how could you absolutely verify you were at a supposed South Pole? A billboard?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2023, 11:34:01 AM by Action80 »
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2023, 11:34:46 AM »

You're quoting things I didn't say, which is very naughty (dishonest) of you. I didn't say that "gravity is a function of magnetism" (although they are related), I said gravity is caused by acceleration of the Ether (what else?). I didn't say "the whole Arctic is off-limits", I said the North Pole is. And if you doubt that the Arctic is getting more militarized each day (a figure of speech, obviously) you just have to read some news yourself, I'm not going to read them for you.

I didn't get the "PricelessPearl and £5" part, I'll consider that a malfunction in your programming.

I'll give you the Arctic thing, that was lazy of me.  If by "Arctic" we mean the area inside the Arctic Circle then, yes; thousands of people live there for goodness sake.  I've been there several times.   

I'm gonna double-down on the North Pole though.  How?  Who? Which (Magnetic or True)?  What size of an exclusion zone?  What Jurisdiction?  Its just in international waters, that happens to be frozen.  What is your evidence of military presence, or restriction?  Yes, its difficult to get too, like anywhere far from land in the Pacific, Atlantic or Southern Ocean.  But restricted?  How?  World Police? 

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Offline AATW

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Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2023, 11:55:09 AM »
Have you ever been there?
I have not, but would love to. I don't think I could really justify the expense though.

Quote
Once you arrived, how could you absolutely verify you were at a supposed South Pole? A billboard?
A fair question. I mean, there's a research station there. And there's a physical pole which they put there as a sort of symbol of where you are. And yes, there is a billboard, well there's a sign anyway. But hey, they could put those anywhere, right? You could apply that to anywhere. How do you know you're anywhere especially if the somewhere is remote. I guess GPS would work and that would verify your location. GPS is trusted everywhere else you go. There are probably star sightings you could make, and observations of the sun as it circles around you would be a pretty good indicator.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline AATW

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Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2023, 12:00:23 PM »
That is meaningless. I already said it: unconditional unrestricted access only.
There isn't unconditional unrestricted access anywhere. Have you heard of passports? But it's not the heavily guarded zone you're claiming.
There are multiple ways to go to the North Pole. But for obvious reasons it's not the most hospitable place so the main restrictions are whether you can afford it and your abilities, depending on your method of travel.

https://www.polarexplorers.com/post/five-ways-to-get-to-the-north-pole-and-what-to-do-when-you-get-there
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Dual1ty

Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2023, 12:16:30 PM »

You're quoting things I didn't say, which is very naughty (dishonest) of you. I didn't say that "gravity is a function of magnetism" (although they are related), I said gravity is caused by acceleration of the Ether (what else?). I didn't say "the whole Arctic is off-limits", I said the North Pole is. And if you doubt that the Arctic is getting more militarized each day (a figure of speech, obviously) you just have to read some news yourself, I'm not going to read them for you.

I didn't get the "PricelessPearl and £5" part, I'll consider that a malfunction in your programming.

I'll give you the Arctic thing, that was lazy of me.  If by "Arctic" we mean the area inside the Arctic Circle then, yes; thousands of people live there for goodness sake.  I've been there several times.   

I'm gonna double-down on the North Pole though.  How?  Who? Which (Magnetic or True)?  What size of an exclusion zone?  What Jurisdiction?  Its just in international waters, that happens to be frozen.  What is your evidence of military presence, or restriction?  Yes, its difficult to get too, like anywhere far from land in the Pacific, Atlantic or Southern Ocean.  But restricted?  How?  World Police?

You're serious? It's one of the most restricted places on Earth. They give you one option to book an uber expensive trip to go to some X point and that makes you think that area is not restricted? That's like thinking that North Korea isn't restricted because you can book a trip to go there. At least the NK one is affordable...

That said, I don't care if you think it isn't restricted. It clearly is restricted. So please, no more doubling-down (or keep doubling-down and waste your time because I'm not going to reply. Your choice).
« Last Edit: April 25, 2023, 12:33:47 PM by Dual1ty »

Offline Gonzo

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Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2023, 12:33:54 PM »
There are lots of options to travel to the north pole. Not just one. Have a google/duckduckgo.

Surely by your definiton everywhere is restricted? Where are you drawing the line here?

Offline Action80

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Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2023, 12:36:15 PM »
Have you ever been there?
I have not, but would love to. I don't think I could really justify the expense though.

Quote
Once you arrived, how could you absolutely verify you were at a supposed South Pole? A billboard?
A fair question. I mean, there's a research station there. And there's a physical pole which they put there as a sort of symbol of where you are. And yes, there is a billboard, well there's a sign anyway. But hey, they could put those anywhere, right? You could apply that to anywhere. How do you know you're anywhere especially if the somewhere is remote. I guess GPS would work and that would verify your location. GPS is trusted everywhere else you go. There are probably star sightings you could make, and observations of the sun as it circles around you would be a pretty good indicator.
You are correct. They could place a pole anywhere and label it "SOUTH POLE!"

The rest of it (GPS and what not), you can only claim and rely on what others state about it as far as that goes.

Stars, you would know the Southern Cross, but that is about it.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2023, 12:48:35 PM »
Not really thought this through, have you Action?  What stars?  In addition to the armed guards and killer-drones, its only practical to travel to the South Pole in southern summer months due to the climate and absence of daylight in winter, and the sun doesn't set, so no visible stars.  What you can do, however, is take a sextant reading of the sun. 

Dual1ty

Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2023, 01:11:40 PM »
There are lots of options to travel to the north pole. Not just one. Have a google/duckduckgo.

Surely by your definiton everywhere is restricted? Where are you drawing the line here?

Yes, and there are lots of options to travel to North Korea as well. You can even go to different parts of the country. All of them approved and pre-arranged by "The Great Leader" and his government. See? That proves that North Korea isn't as restricted as you think; it's only your imagination.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2023, 01:37:26 PM by Dual1ty »

Dual1ty

Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2023, 02:23:30 PM »

SteelyBob

Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2023, 03:27:29 PM »
Quote
A more pressing question for the FE community would be: 'why does g vary at all - surely it should be the same everywhere if any of the FE models are correct?'.
Similarly, this is an intentional misrepresentation of FE. If you can't have this discussion without fairly comparing the sides, consider not participating.

I entirely agree on your clampdown on strawmanning Pete, so if I’ve misrepresented FE here I’ll gladly apologise. I had inferred from both Tom’s arguments here and the wiki ( https://wiki.tfes.org/Variations_in_Gravity) that the general FE view was that gravity doesn’t vary with position on the earth or with altitude.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2023, 04:12:19 PM »
There are lots of options to travel to the north pole. Not just one. Have a google/duckduckgo.

Surely by your definiton everywhere is restricted? Where are you drawing the line here?

Yes, and there are lots of options to travel to North Korea as well. You can even go to different parts of the country. All of them approved and pre-arranged by "The Great Leader" and his government. See? That proves that North Korea isn't as restricted as you think; it's only your imagination.
Pretty much everywhere is restricted to a greater or lesser extent. You need a passport to go to most countries. For some you need a visa too.
But your implication is that there is some special "none shall pass" restriction on the North Pole. That simply isn't the case and we've shown you multiple ways you can get there if you're really that fussed. The main barrier to going there is how inhospitable it is.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline AATW

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Re: Altitude related g... where are the experiments?
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2023, 04:22:29 PM »
Not really thought this through, have you Action?  What stars?  In addition to the armed guards and killer-drones, its only practical to travel to the South Pole in southern summer months due to the climate and absence of daylight in winter, and the sun doesn't set, so no visible stars.  What you can do, however, is take a sextant reading of the sun.
To be fair the stars thing is my fault, I mentioned that. Then I realised that wouldn't work for the reason you mention so I mentioned the sun and forgot to remove the bit about the stars. The sun going around you in the Antarctic circle is an interesting one though, I don't think the monopole model as outlined in the Wiki can really explain that.

The issue with Action's line of argument is you could apply it to any remote location.
I mean, Uluru (the rock formerly known as Ayers) is in the middle of nowhere. You can go there, you could do the star sightings there, check GPS and so on but if you're determined enough to believe that the real one is either heavily guarded because "they" are hiding something or doesn't exist at all then you could follow Action's line of reasoning there too. Or anywhere. I read an article about this, how some people operate in the sceptical context ("how do we really know that..."), but they do so selectively. So in the real world day to day people rely on GPS and trust it, but in a specific scenario they cast doubt on it because it could be telling them anything.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"