Tom

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2000 on: July 07, 2015, 10:59:41 AM »
To incite a group of people to use such a violence, killing men, women and children is absurd. We are talking about a War God.

So you are guilty of the crime of felonious stupidity by asking Bronze Age people to respond to the standard violence of their time with chants of "kum-bay-ya". Ok. Now that we have established your inability to say anything intelligent on the topic...

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I am talking about the collective system in general, the Hebrew system is. I use the black cube (Telfeillin) as a metaphore to illustrate that it is a divisive, oppressive and enclosed system.

Explain, without committing the offense of felonious stupidity, how it is oppressive and enclosed.

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A sane person would reject such an absurd system for living beings with the Life Force in it.
So, I am trying to figure out if there really are 'Gods' who are oppressing and exploiting living expressions of Life.

Greetings, Erich. What is your latest absurd claim, I wonder?

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On the other hand, it is not relevant, as all Life Forms have the Life Force 'in' them, so nobody has to obey an outside power/force.

This makes no sense. Of course all living things are alive. That is what makes them "living things". See how that works? If they were not alive, ie, did not have life force, they would be dead. See how that works? That doesn't eliminate the need to obey the Creator of the Universe and all that therein lies.

Violence in the past, violence is used now and will be used in the future. Nothing changed!

The Laws keep Living Life Forms in a Frame. A time frame, a superiority frame, an apartheid frame, an authority frame, a good-bad frame, a false hope-frame, a fear frame, etc, etc.

It is about mind and behaviour control through illusions.

I am asking questions. You believe in a War God, but you can't even prove that he exists.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 11:03:54 AM by Tom »

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2001 on: July 07, 2015, 11:20:07 AM »
Violence in the past, violence is used now and will be used in the future. Nothing changed!

Anyone who has studied history (I have an MA in the subject) knows that violence is in the nature of the human race. Until the Messiah comes, we will commit violence. That is just the way we are. The only hope that it will stop is the Messianic hope.

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The Laws keep Living Life Forms in a Frame. A time frame, a superiority frame, an apartheid frame, an authority frame, a good-bad frame, a false hope-frame, a fear frame, etc, etc.

This is simply pure, unadulterated foolishness. No one would say something like this that understood Judaism. Clearly you do not, and never did. We separate ourselves spiritually for the well-being of both Jew and Gentile. We know what G-d has commanded for us. We do not pretend to know what he has commanded for the Gentile. I am commanded to follow the G-d of Israel as he has revealed himself to the Prophets, as they have been understood by the Sages and Rabbis of Blessed Memory. I do not presume to dictate to the Gentile what he is supposed to do. That is beyond my paygrade. Nor does one have to be a Jew to  be "saved", or any silliness like that. A Righteous Gentile has a place in Olam Ha Ba.

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It is about mind and behaviour control through illusions.

Only a fool says things that are not true, when he knows they are not. Rejection of G-d carries with it Divine punishment. The choice is yours.

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I am asking questions. You believe in a War God, but you can't even prove that he exists.

Your questions are illogical, as are you. G-d is a G-d of all things, war among them. The fact that the Universe exists is proof that G-d exists. There are many arguments for the existence of the Deity. I shall not rehearse them with you, as it will serve no purpose. Your mind is closed to all but your petty rejections. You are as the child, who rebels because it didn't get the piece of candy that it wanted. You resist G-d, because you want to be king of your own castle. Well, you are. The fact that you have thrown out your Creator is your business, and your problem.

Tom

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2002 on: July 07, 2015, 11:34:56 AM »
Violence in the past, violence is used now and will be used in the future. Nothing changed!

Anyone who has studied history (I have an MA in the subject) knows that violence is in the nature of the human race. Until the Messiah comes, we will commit violence. That is just the way we are. The only hope that it will stop is the Messianic hope.

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The Laws keep Living Life Forms in a Frame. A time frame, a superiority frame, an apartheid frame, an authority frame, a good-bad frame, a false hope-frame, a fear frame, etc, etc.

This is simply pure, unadulterated foolishness. No one would say something like this that understood Judaism. Clearly you do not, and never did. We separate ourselves spiritually for the well-being of both Jew and Gentile. We know what G-d has commanded for us. We do not pretend to know what he has commanded for the Gentile. I am commanded to follow the G-d of Israel as he has revealed himself to the Prophets, as they have been understood by the Sages and Rabbis of Blessed Memory. I do not presume to dictate to the Gentile what he is supposed to do. That is beyond my paygrade. Nor does one have to be a Jew to  be "saved", or any silliness like that. A Righteous Gentile has a place in Olam Ha Ba.

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It is about mind and behaviour control through illusions.

Only a fool says things that are not true, when he knows they are not. Rejection of G-d carries with it Divine punishment. The choice is yours.

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I am asking questions. You believe in a War God, but you can't even prove that he exists.

Your questions are illogical, as are you. G-d is a G-d of all things, war among them. The fact that the Universe exists is proof that G-d exists. There are many arguments for the existence of the Deity. I shall not rehearse them with you, as it will serve no purpose. Your mind is closed to all but your petty rejections. You are as the child, who rebels because it didn't get the piece of candy that it wanted. You resist G-d, because you want to be king of your own castle. Well, you are. The fact that you have thrown out your Creator is your business, and your problem.


You are talking about an universe and don't even know that the earth is flat.

You can fool yourself and love your War God.

Good luck with your illusions!

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2003 on: July 07, 2015, 11:44:10 AM »
You are talking about an universe and don't even know that the earth is flat.

Wow. Just, WOW. You went there. You actually fucking went there. He said it. The Earth is flat. Now I have heard as much felony stupid as I can ever hope for. You shouldn't just be arrested, you should be shot.

Of course, its beside the point. Even if I believed something so patently absurd, it would not change anything I have said. The ancient Hebrews believed the Earth was flat. So, your point is?

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You can fool yourself and love your War God.

A gratuitous, borderline ad hom from a petty man who can't hold his own in an argument.

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Good luck with your illusions!

No, anyone who thinks the world is flat after the life of Aristotle is the one who is messed up with illusions. You need to be committed. They have hospitals and medications for this kind of thing, Man.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 11:45:58 AM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2004 on: July 07, 2015, 11:50:12 AM »
You're getting real close to crossing into ban territory again, Yaakov. Try to keep calm, okay?

Tom

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2005 on: July 07, 2015, 11:50:31 AM »
You are talking about an universe and don't even know that the earth is flat.

Wow. Just, WOW. You went there. You actually fucking went there. He said it. The Earth is flat. Now I have heard as much felony stupid as I can ever hope for. You shouldn't just be arrested, you should be shot.

Of course, its beside the point. Even if I believed something so patently absurd, it would not change anything I have said. The ancient Hebrews believed the Earth was flat. So, your point is?

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You can fool yourself and love your War God.

A gratuitous, borderline ad hom from a petty man who can't hold his own in an argument.

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Good luck with your illusions!

No, anyone who thinks the world is flat after the life of Aristotle is the one who is messed up with illusions. You need to be committed. They have hospitals and medications for this kind of thing, Man.

What are you doing on this flat earth forum, if you still believe in a sphere in the middle of nowhere?

You are full of accusations and threats. You are not a fun guy to talk to.

Live in your own fantasy reality. Good luck!

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2006 on: July 07, 2015, 11:58:46 AM »
You're getting real close to crossing into ban territory again, Yaakov. Try to keep calm, okay?

Fair enough. Thanks for the friendly warning.

What are you doing on this flat earth forum, if you still believe in a sphere in the middle of nowhere?

You are full of accusations and threats. You are not a fun guy to talk to.

Live in your own fantasy reality. Good luck!

Even if I did believe in a Flat Earth, so did the Ancient Israelites. That mistaken belief didn't invalidate their religion. I don't threaten at all. A threat involves me suggesting that I would do harm to you. I have not suggested that at all. I have suggested that in a Halachic State, harm would be done to you by that State, yes. But I am not the State.

Face it, Tom. You can't hold your own in a real argument. Apparently, you never mastered the art of pilpul. I'll admit, this has gone outside the realm of pilpul into rudeness, but you started that with your outright crass disrespect of Judaism. Don't ask for respect when you refuse to give it.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 12:04:21 PM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2007 on: July 07, 2015, 12:03:00 PM »
For the sake of the Censors, allow me to define "pilpul". It is a Yiddish word, and it translates roughly into English as the art of debate and argumentation between two or more persons for the purpose of studying out an issue. Said activity is generally done in a friendly atmosphere, without the intention of being uncharitable. Often, it is a full-throated debate that can appear, to non-Jews, as if the participants were very irritated with one another, when in fact, they are quite friendly.

Tom

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2008 on: July 07, 2015, 12:11:06 PM »
You're getting real close to crossing into ban territory again, Yaakov. Try to keep calm, okay?

Fair enough. Thanks for the friendly warning.

What are you doing on this flat earth forum, if you still believe in a sphere in the middle of nowhere?

You are full of accusations and threats. You are not a fun guy to talk to.

Live in your own fantasy reality. Good luck!

Even if I did believe in a Flat Earth, so did the Ancient Israelites. That mistaken belief didn't invalidate their religion. I don't threaten at all. A threat involves me suggesting that I would do harm to you. I have not suggested that at all. I have suggested that in a Halachic State, harm would be done to you by that State, yes. But I am not the State.

Face it, Tom. You can't hold your own in a real argument. Apparently, you never mastered the art of pilpul. I'll admit, this has gone outside the realm of pilpul into rudeness, but you started that with you outright crass disrespect of Judaism. Don't ask for respect when you refuse to give it.

You said among other things, I quote "You shouldn't just be arrested, you should be shot." That is a threat, mister!
Not nice!

All your accusations that I am stupid and that I don't know anything about history and Judaism are really very weak arguments. Give me some solid proof that your War God exists! Give me some solid proof that all the famous War Lords in the Tanach like Avraham, Jaakov, his 12 sons, David, Solomon, etc. existed.

I am still interested in the story. What really happened and what really is going on.
You cannot provide any interesting thoughts. No point to talk with fundamentalists about these things.

Anyone else?


Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2009 on: July 07, 2015, 12:30:10 PM »
You said among other things, I quote "You shouldn't just be arrested, you should be shot." That is a threat, mister!
Not nice!

Suggesting what I think your punishment should be is one thing. I am not saying that I should be the one to carry it out. Ergo, not a threat.

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All your accusations that I am stupid and that I don't know anything about history and Judaism are really very weak arguments. Give me some solid proof that your War God exists! Give me some solid proof that all the famous War Lords in the Tanach like Avraham, Jaakov, his 12 sons, David, Solomon, etc. existed.

Well, given that they have found stones in Israel with David's name on them, that should be your first clue to his existence. They also, in a recent find, believe that they have found his palace in Jerusalem. Obviously, if David existed, it is likely his son did. I agree that they have no proof of Abraham or Jacob or the Twelve Sons thereof, but the fact that there were Twelve Tribes is a pretty good indicator that there were Twelve founders of those Tribes. Remember, it was a LONG time ago. That proof is going to be awhile in coming. Remember where they are digging for things.

As a perfect example, they recently found a Jeep from the 1973 War in the Sinai Peninsula. This Israeli Jeep was buried 50 feet deep in sand. Notice the figure. 50 feet deep. And that is just in the last 40 years. Can you imagine what sand has moved around in the last 3,800 years? Finding ANYTHING in that part of the world is going to be a pain in the butt at least.

I would encourage you to start using your head, instead your emotions. You have developed such a hatred for Judaism that all you can think with is your hatred. I don't know why you feel the way you do, but something has caused you to despise your upbringing. You have betrayed your G-d and your People. As far as I am concerned, you deserve the punishments that a Halachic State would provide for such. Note that I do NOT say that I would enforce such punishments. I merely say that I believe you deserve to be punished accordingly. Again, not a threat. Merely an opinion.

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I am still interested in the story. What really happened and what really is going on.
You cannot provide any interesting thoughts. No point to talk with fundamentalists about these things.
Anyone else?

There really is no such thing as a Jewish fundamentalist. I mean, yes, the Torah actually occurred, of course. Well, at least after Chapter 11 of Genesis. I am not so sure about the first 11 chapters, because they are all quasi-mythological, but that is another issue altogether.

But the Torah, and the rest of the Jewish Bible has to be read as a multi-layered text. Please note I don't use the term TaNaKh. The term is correct, of course. I avoid it, however, because most Gentiles have no clue what the heck it means. It is easier for their understanding to use terms such as "Jewish Bible", or "Hebrew Bible", or, much as I hate it, the oft-used term, "Old Testament", which I usually will place in quotes to indicate the incorrectness of the term.

So, back to the topic. The Jewish Bible is a multi-layered text. It has to be read literally of course. But there are also metaphorical, poetic, literary, mystical, and many other ways in which it can and often should be read in addition to the literal. The fact that it can and should be read this way is the reason for the existence of Talmud and Kabbalah.  But the only way to understand either of these is through the prism of a faithfully lived Jewish life. Trying to break from Judaism, and its disciplines, and yet understand either of these, particularly Kabbalah, is just straight impossible, and doomed to failure.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 12:52:19 PM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

Tom

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2010 on: July 07, 2015, 01:26:48 PM »
You said among other things, I quote "You shouldn't just be arrested, you should be shot." That is a threat, mister!
Not nice!

Suggesting what I think your punishment should be is one thing. I am not saying that I should be the one to carry it out. Ergo, not a threat.

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All your accusations that I am stupid and that I don't know anything about history and Judaism are really very weak arguments. Give me some solid proof that your War God exists! Give me some solid proof that all the famous War Lords in the Tanach like Avraham, Jaakov, his 12 sons, David, Solomon, etc. existed.

Well, given that they have found stones in Israel with David's name on them, that should be your first clue to his existence. They also, in a recent find, believe that they have found his palace in Jerusalem. Obviously, if David existed, it is likely his son did. I agree that they have no proof of Abraham or Jacob or the Twelve Sons thereof, but the fact that there were Twelve Tribes is a pretty good indicator that there were Twelve founders of those Tribes. Remember, it was a LONG time ago. That proof is going to be awhile in coming. Remember where they are digging for things.

As a perfect example, they recently found a Jeep from the 1973 War in the Sinai Peninsula. This Israeli Jeep was buried 50 feet deep in sand. Notice the figure. 50 feet deep. And that is just in the last 40 years. Can you imagine what sand has moved around in the last 3,800 years? Finding ANYTHING in that part of the world is going to be a pain in the butt at least.

I would encourage you to start using your head, instead your emotions. You have developed such a hatred for Judaism that all you can think with is your hatred. I don't know why you feel the way you do, but something has caused you to despise your upbringing. You have betrayed your G-d and your People. As far as I am concerned, you deserve the punishments that a Halachic State would provide for such. Note that I do NOT say that I would enforce such punishments. I merely say that I believe you deserve to be punished accordingly. Again, not a threat. Merely an opinion.

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I am still interested in the story. What really happened and what really is going on.
You cannot provide any interesting thoughts. No point to talk with fundamentalists about these things.
Anyone else?

There really is no such thing as a Jewish fundamentalist. I mean, yes, the Torah actually occurred, of course. Well, at least after Chapter 11 of Genesis. I am not so sure about the first 11 chapters, because they are all quasi-mythological, but that is another issue altogether.

But the Torah, and the rest of the Jewish Bible has to be read as a multi-layered text. Please note I don't use the term TaNaKh. The term is correct, of course. I avoid it, however, because most Gentiles have no clue what the heck it means. It is easier for their understanding to use terms such as "Jewish Bible", or "Hebrew Bible", or, much as I hate it, the oft-used term, "Old Testament", which I usually will place in quotes to indicate the incorrectness of the term.

So, back to the topic. The Jewish Bible is a multi-layered text. It has to be read literally of course. But there are also metaphorical, poetic, literary, mystical, and many other ways in which it can and often should be read in addition to the literal. The fact that it can and should be read this way is the reason for the existence of Talmud and Kabbalah.  But the only way to understand either of these is through the prism of a faithfully lived Jewish life. Trying to break from Judaism, and its disciplines, and yet understand either of these, particularly Kabbalah, is just straight impossible, and doomed to failure.

No proof for the existence of your War God and his soldiers.

There is a story about the Hyksos that tried to conquer Egypt and were kicked out. That's a clue that there was something going on in that area.

Btw, Einstein was a kabbalist. We all know how he got his theories. Unfortunately they are wrong.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2011 on: July 07, 2015, 01:37:43 PM »
No proof for the existence of your War God and his soldiers.

Your point being?

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There is a story about the Hyksos that tried to conquer Egypt and were kicked out. That's a clue that there was something going on in that area.

Actually, they DID conquer Egypt for a time, and ruled it, until they were conquered themselves, and thrown out of the country. It is believed that it was about this time that the Hebrews were made slaves, because it was feared that they would ally with the Hyksos. At least, so some scholars say.

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Btw, Einstein was a kabbalist. We all know how he got his theories. Unfortunately they are wrong.

Einstein was not a practitioner of the Jewish Faith. He was an ethnic Jew only. And he only vaguely believed in G-d at all, as some vague force that created the universe. He certainly did not believe in Judaism. And every single reputable scientist and scholar in the world accepts Einstein's work as revolutionary in understanding our universe. I hardly think that anyone on this website is going to convince 99.99999999% of the educated world that the Earth is flat and Einstein was an idiot.

I highly doubt that Einstein was a kabbalist, given his very vague notions of deity and religious concepts. That sounds like a load of bilge.

Tom

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2012 on: July 07, 2015, 01:49:18 PM »
No proof for the existence of your War God and his soldiers.

Your point being?

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There is a story about the Hyksos that tried to conquer Egypt and were kicked out. That's a clue that there was something going on in that area.

Actually, they DID conquer Egypt for a time, and ruled it, until they were conquered themselves, and thrown out of the country. It is believed that it was about this time that the Hebrews were made slaves, because it was feared that they would ally with the Hyksos. At least, so some scholars say.

Quote
Btw, Einstein was a kabbalist. We all know how he got his theories. Unfortunately they are wrong.

Einstein was not a practitioner of the Jewish Faith. He was an ethnic Jew only. And he only vaguely believed in G-d at all, as some vague force that created the universe. He certainly did not believe in Judaism. And every single reputable scientist and scholar in the world accepts Einstein's work as revolutionary in understanding our universe. I hardly think that anyone on this website is going to convince 99.99999999% of the educated world that the Earth is flat and Einstein was an idiot.

I highly doubt that Einstein was a kabbalist, given his very vague notions of deity and religious concepts. That sounds like a load of bilge.

No proof your War God exists. You might warship a phantom.

The Tanach does not mention the Hyksos and the other story does not mention the Hebrew people.

Maybe the Hyksos and the Hebrews are the same people. Just a thought.

Einsteins theory has similarities with the Kabbalah theory. Very probably Einstein knew about it and was 'inspired'.

The earth is flat, which brings me back to the question. What are you doing here? You will have more fun on a Chabad forum.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 02:02:09 PM by Tom »

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2013 on: July 07, 2015, 05:27:16 PM »
If you had ever studied philosophy, you would have known the arguments for the existence of G-d. Telling me that Einstein's theories are similar to Kabbala simply means one thing. Citation needed. And even if they were, sine he was not devoutly Jewish, he could not have understood Kabbala.

Tom

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2014 on: July 07, 2015, 05:37:34 PM »
If you had ever studied philosophy, you would have known the arguments for the existence of G-d. Telling me that Einstein's theories are similar to Kabbala simply means one thing. Citation needed. And even if they were, sine he was not devoutly Jewish, he could not have understood Kabbala.

There are no valid arguments for the existence of God, especially not your War God.

People who say that other people cannot understand something, are so unbelievable supercilious.

What are you doing here, if you don't acknowledge that the earth is flat?

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2015 on: July 07, 2015, 05:53:42 PM »
If you had ever studied philosophy, you would have known the arguments for the existence of G-d. Telling me that Einstein's theories are similar to Kabbala simply means one thing. Citation needed. And even if they were, sine he was not devoutly Jewish, he could not have understood Kabbala.

There are no valid arguments for the existence of God, especially not your War God.

People who say that other people cannot understand something, are so unbelievable supercilious.

What are you doing here, if you don't acknowledge that the earth is flat?

The only reason you claim there are no arguments for G-d's existence is because you refuse to obey the Creator. You are in open rebellion. You have stupidly closed your mind.

I claim you don't understand because it is obvious that you do not. If that makes me supercilious, tough. Get over it.

You will find the majority of people here don't believe the earth is flat.

Tom

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2016 on: July 07, 2015, 06:02:46 PM »
If you had ever studied philosophy, you would have known the arguments for the existence of G-d. Telling me that Einstein's theories are similar to Kabbala simply means one thing. Citation needed. And even if they were, sine he was not devoutly Jewish, he could not have understood Kabbala.

There are no valid arguments for the existence of God, especially not your War God.

People who say that other people cannot understand something, are so unbelievable supercilious.

What are you doing here, if you don't acknowledge that the earth is flat?

The only reason you claim there are no arguments for G-d's existence is because you refuse to obey the Creator. You are in open rebellion. You have stupidly closed your mind.

I claim you don't understand because it is obvious that you do not. If that makes me supercilious, tough. Get over it.

You will find the majority of people here don't believe the earth is flat.

Come on, where are your arguments/proof that God, especially your War God, exists?

You don't know what I know. You have only empty words to say.

Why are YOU here?

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2017 on: July 07, 2015, 06:08:43 PM »
My first argument would be the Ontological Argument.

A. I can conceive of a Being a Greater than which cannot possibly be Conceived which exists.
B. Existence is greater than non-existence.
C. Ergo, G-d exists.

Of course, there are a shit-ton of others. I am not going to rehearse them all. An atheist is as the child, screaming in rebellion because it didn't get the candy that it wanted. Grow up, act like an adult, and maybe it will be worth my time debating with you.

Why does it matter why I am here?

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2018 on: July 07, 2015, 06:18:44 PM »
B. Existence is greater than non-existence.

citation needed
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Tom

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #2019 on: July 07, 2015, 06:23:33 PM »
My first argument would be the Ontological Argument.

A. I can conceive of a Being a Greater than which cannot possibly be Conceived which exists.
B. Existence is greater than non-existence.
C. Ergo, G-d exists.

Of course, there are a shit-ton of others. I am not going to rehearse them all. An atheist is as the child, screaming in rebellion because it didn't get the candy that it wanted. Grow up, act like an adult, and maybe it will be worth my time debating with you.

Why does it matter why I am here?

It's a mind game!

A Great and not great is a duality of the mind; it is fiction, as the reference point does not exist.

B There is no such thing as non-existence!

C This is not valid proof of the existence of a (War) God.

Next argument!

Why are you on a forum for people who want to know more about the flat earth?