The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Science & Alternative Science => Topic started by: Tom Bishop on March 10, 2020, 01:30:51 AM
-
Surprise surprise, Vitamin C is found to successfully treat the Coronavirus.
https://www.europereloaded.com/news-media-attacks-vitamin-c-treatment-of-covid-19-coronavirus-video/
Here is a verified official statement from China’s Xi’an Jiaotong University Second Hospital:
“On the afternoon of February 20, 2020, another 4 patients with severe coronavirus pneumonia recovered from the C10 West Ward of Tongji Hospital. In the past 8 patients have been discharged from hospital. . . High-dose vitamin C achieved good results in clinical applications. We believe that for patients with severe neonatal pneumonia, and for critically ill patients, vitamin C treatment should be initiated as soon as possible after admission. Numerous studies have shown that the dose of vitamin C has a lot to do with the effect of treatment. High-dose vitamin C can not only improve antiviral levels, but more importantly, can prevent and treat acute lung injury (ALI) and acute respiratory distress (ARDS).”
Here is a report from Korea:
“At my hospital in Daegu, South Korea, all inpatients and all staff members have been using vitamin C orally since last week. Some people this week had a mild fever, headaches and coughs, and those who had symptoms got 30,000 mg intravenous vitamin C. Some people got better after about two days, and most had symptoms go away after one injection.” (Hyoungjoo Shin, M.D.)
There are at least three high-dose intravenous vitamin C studies underway in China. Literally by the truckload, tons of vitamin C has been sent into Wuhan.
Here is a report from a physician in China:
“We need to broadcast a message worldwide very quickly: Vitamin C (small or large dose) does no harm to people and is the one of the few, if not the only, agent that has a chance to prevent us from getting, and can treat, COVID-19 infection. When can we, medical doctors and scientists, put patients’ lives first?” (Richard Z. Cheng, MD, PhD, International Vitamin C China Epidemic Medical Support Team Leader)
Indeed, China is now officially recommending Vitamin C as treatment:
https://worldhealth.net/news/official-statement-china-recommended-treatment-covid-19/
"Confirming the reports from small independent studies and 3 clinical trials, the Shanghai government has announced a recommendation to use high dose intravenous treatment of vitamin C to treat COVID-19, according to the Orthomolecular Medicine News Service.
The announced official recommendation that COVID-19 should be treated with high doses of intravenous vitamin C come as welcomed news as the virus continues to spread. The dosage recommendation will vary with the severity of illness ranging from 50-200 milligrams per kilogram body weight per day to as much as 16,000 mg/kg/day."
Also announced here: http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n16.shtml
-
Still waiting on a scientific paper on this.
Also, how can a vitamin cure a viral infection? Best it does is keep the immune system functional. So I guess if you're deficient, you'll see a boost.
But please, tell me what process causes the virus to die from contact with a mineral?
-
Dangerous misinformation from Tom as usual
https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/
If you have symptoms, go see a doctor and get a test.
Talk to medical professionals, don't try and self-medicate based on things you see online
Mods, should Tom be allowed to post this sort of thing? It can be dangerous if people see this sort of thing and follow bad advise rather than seeking help from the relevant professionals.
-
Still waiting on a scientific paper on this.
Also, how can a vitamin cure a viral infection? Best it does is keep the immune system functional. So I guess if you're deficient, you'll see a boost.
But please, tell me what process causes the virus to die from contact with a mineral?
See the 7 minute mark of the following video. Dr. Cheng explains that the body turns Vitamin C into Hydrogen Peroxide in the body to combat the disease, much like Hydrogen Peroxide can combat infections externally. Earlier in the video, over the first seven minutes, Dr. Cheng also relates another case of Vitamin C successfully treating the Coronavirus.
https://youtu.be/6-elCYFhqJs
Dangerous misinformation from Tom as usual
https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/
If you have symptoms, go see a doctor and get a test.
Talk to medical professionals, don't try and self-medicate based on things you see online
Mods, should Tom be allowed to post this sort of thing? It can be dangerous if people see this sort of thing and follow bad advise rather than seeking help from the relevant professionals.
Did they test Vitamin C against people with the Coronavirus in that link?
Yes or No?
No, they did not. That's all we need to know. It's literally just an opinion saying that it's "unlikely".
It is you who needs to be censored, based on your negligance of providing evidence based medicine or case studies showing that Vitamin C IVs have no effect against disease. Where is the evidence? That is what is needed to counter these Vitamin C claims; evidence, not an opinion.
Doctors are recommending Vitamin C IVs for this, as well as the government of China (http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n16.shtml). I don't see you providing any physical evidence against that.
-
It is you who needs to be censored
Really?
I have suggested that people with symptoms should consult a medical professional rather than self-medicate with remedies they have seen someone promote online.
Do you think that is bad advice?
-
It is you who needs to be censored
Really?
I have suggested that people with symptoms should consult a medical professional rather than self-medicate with remedies they have seen someone promote online.
Do you think that is bad advice?
I did reference medical professionals. Doctors at university clinical trials and physcians, as referenced above, and Dr. Cheng.
http://www.drwlc.com/dr-richard-cheng.shtml
Dr. Richard Cheng, from the video. Yep, he's a licensed US medical doctor who is recommending Vitamin C.
Why shouldn't we give attention to these doctors who are recommending Vitamin C IVs, and who are telling us that it can treat this condition? This isn't from some random source. He's a doctor.
-
Clinical trials are ongoing, a thread titled "Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C" is irresponsible.
If you have symptoms, go and see medical professionals - don't Google it and follow random advice you see from someone online, even if the person online does claim to be a doctor.
-
Clinical trials are ongoing, a thread titled "Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C" is irresponsible.
If you have symptoms, go and see medical professionals - don't Google it and follow random advice you see from someone online, even if the person online does claim to be a doctor.
Clinical trials are showing that Vitamin C is effective for this, like it has shown that it is effective for other viruses, as stated by Dr. Cheng. Dr. Cheng is a medical doctor and you are not, and nor is your source. The person in your Snopes source isn't even claiming to hold an MD. He's a professor of biochemistry, not a doctor. The only actual MDs in this thread are supporting Vitamin C.
Like you said, we shouldn't follow random advice we see online, and so that means we should discard whatever it is you have to say. You are the random source here. You have not provided any evidence that Dr. Cheng is a liar, or have given us any reason for why we should listen to you that these claims and doctors are frauds.
-
Like you said, we shouldn't follow random advice we see online
Correct.
If you have symptoms, go see a doctor or other medical professional and get professional advice.
-
Like you said, we shouldn't follow random advice we see online
Correct.
If you have symptoms, go see a doctor or other medical professional and get professional advice.
No one has told anyone anything about not going to a doctor for symptoms. You have entirely invented an argument which was not made.
This thread is about clinical trials which have shown successful treatment of Coronavirus with Vitamin C IVs, and the announcement from the Chinese government that they are supporting this treatment. It's called world news, alternative science, and an appropriate subject for this board. If you have anything to contribute to that subject, it is welcomed. If you want to continue to call them liars and frauds, that's fine, but I would then ask for evidence of this. Otherwise please stop giving medical advice in my thread. This thread is for discussion of the topic. This thread isn't telling anyone to do anything, except for the referenced doctors and entities, who are recommending this IV treatment to be conducted by doctors with their patients.
-
Interesting dashboard here if you want to track our impending doom in real time
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
-
A cording to wiki, Hydrogen peroxide is very quickly used up in the body to avoid it from killing cells off. If vitamin C really does cause a large production of Hydrogen Peroxide, it would be quite fatal. It kills cells, after all, if not used quickly.
-
Still waiting on a scientific paper on this.
Also, how can a vitamin cure a viral infection? Best it does is keep the immune system functional. So I guess if you're deficient, you'll see a boost.
But please, tell me what process causes the virus to die from contact with a mineral?
Dave, where did you read the word, "CURE?"
Dangerous misinformation from Tom as usual
https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/
If you have symptoms, go see a doctor and get a test.
Talk to medical professionals, don't try and self-medicate based on things you see online
Mods, should Tom be allowed to post this sort of thing? It can be dangerous if people see this sort of thing and follow bad advise rather than seeking help from the relevant professionals.
AATW, where did you read the word, "CURE?"
You post a link from snopes that includes the word CURE?
And what Tom posted does not contain the word CURE!
It contains the word, "treat."
Come on dudes...
-
A cording to wiki, Hydrogen peroxide is very quickly used up in the body to avoid it from killing cells off. If vitamin C really does cause a large production of Hydrogen Peroxide, it would be quite fatal. It kills cells, after all, if not used quickly.
From what I've read, the body makes the hydrogen peroxide at the main site of the illness.
https://knowledgeofhealth.com/reassessment-of-vitamin-c-therapy-and-cancer/
As explained by Hickey and colleagues, in states of illness, such as cancer, the demand for electrons rises exponentially and up to 200 grams (200,000 mgs) might be needed. Cancer cells have a voracious appetite for vitamin C. A therapeutic vitamin C regimen attempts to turn vitamin C from a protective antioxidant to a pro-oxidant state to transiently generate hydrogen peroxide at the site of tumors and selectively kill off cancer cells without damaging healthy cells. [Journal Orthomolecular Medicine 2005] (http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2005/pdf/2005-v20n04-p237.pdf)
-
AATW, where did you read the word, "CURE?"
You post a link from snopes that includes the word CURE?
And what Tom posted does not contain the word CURE!
It contains the word, "treat."
Come on dudes...
Tom has edited his post, I'm fairly sure he did use that word initially.
-
breaking news: the #1 global exporter of vitamin C says that vitamin C cures diseases! color me shocked. i certainly can't think of a single conceivable reason to be skeptical of these claims.
-
Turns out that reducing inflammation is still beneficial. What a world.
breaking news: the #1 global exporter of vitamin C says that vitamin C cures diseases! color me shocked. i certainly can't think of a single conceivable reason to be skeptical of these claims.
Tom only cares for conflicts of interest when it runs counter to his world view.
-
AATW, where did you read the word, "CURE?"
You post a link from snopes that includes the word CURE?
And what Tom posted does not contain the word CURE!
It contains the word, "treat."
Come on dudes...
Tom has edited his post, I'm fairly sure he did use that word initially.
I am fairly sure that you would have quoted that directly.
-
I am fairly sure that you would have quoted that directly.
You can see above I did not quote him.
You can also see that he has edited his post.
-
A cording to wiki, Hydrogen peroxide is very quickly used up in the body to avoid it from killing cells off. If vitamin C really does cause a large production of Hydrogen Peroxide, it would be quite fatal. It kills cells, after all, if not used quickly.
From what I've read, the body makes the hydrogen peroxide at the main site of the illness.
https://knowledgeofhealth.com/reassessment-of-vitamin-c-therapy-and-cancer/
As explained by Hickey and colleagues, in states of illness, such as cancer, the demand for electrons rises exponentially and up to 200 grams (200,000 mgs) might be needed. Cancer cells have a voracious appetite for vitamin C. A therapeutic vitamin C regimen attempts to turn vitamin C from a protective antioxidant to a pro-oxidant state to transiently generate hydrogen peroxide at the site of tumors and selectively kill off cancer cells without damaging healthy cells. [Journal Orthomolecular Medicine 2005] (http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2005/pdf/2005-v20n04-p237.pdf)
Ok, assuming thats accurate...
1. The quoted text states they are trying to induce the reaction in cancer cells, so it doesn't seem to happen naturally.
2. Viruses can't be stopped once inside a cell. Not by the host anyway. Thats why they are effective. Once the cell explodes, then the immune system attacks it.
-
I am fairly sure that you would have quoted that directly.
You can see above I did not quote him.
You can also see that he has edited his post.
Yes, I can see both of those things.
That does not mean he edited his post to eliminate the word "cure," when the article he referenced states the word, "treat."
Now, care to edit your post to reflect the word, "treat," rather than "cure," and if not, why not?
-
That does not mean he edited his post to eliminate the word "cure," when the article he referenced states the word, "treat."
No, it doesn't mean that. But I know he did because I remember what his original post said :)
Now, care to edit your post to reflect the word, "treat," rather than "cure," and if not, why not?
No, because my post doesn't use the word "cure". My source might but I can't edit that.
And my over-riding point, again, is to seek the advice of your local medical professionals if you have symptoms rather than follow advice you see online.
-
What if your doctor takes the advice from a pre-published clinical trial and just pumps you with Vit. C until you get better?
-
What if your doctor takes the advice from a pre-published clinical trial and just pumps you with Vit. C until you get better?
Well, then you're a bit fucked.
But I'd rather take my chances with a medical professional than "some bloke" who says he's a doctor online.
-
Now this, Alanis, is ironic
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51827356
-
What if your doctor takes the advice from a pre-published clinical trial and just pumps you with Vit. C until you get better?
Well, then you're a bit fucked.
But I'd rather take my chances with a medical professional than "some bloke" who says he's a doctor online.
In fairness, the link tom provided is from a medical journal.
Its just a study that hasn't been peer reviewed yet.
-
In fairness, the link tom provided is from a medical journal.
Its just a study that hasn't been peer reviewed yet.
Yes, I'll give him that. It's not as crackpot as some of the things he's posted on here.
But this and the infamous "garlic easily cures cancer" thread make me think he believes a bit too strongly in these sorts of things. And that's fine, I guess. If he gets cancer and starts taking garlic than, say, consulting a doctor then more fool him. Where I think it becomes dangerous is if other people think that these things are a silver bullet and don't consult medical professionals.
There are some promising clinical trials, admittedly, but there is no official advice about taking vitamin C as a treatment.
Not over here anyway:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/
In brief: if you have symptoms, consult a medical expert.
-
Garlic did reverse cancer, in a double blind medical study. I didn't say anything about not going to a doctor. The first sentence of that thread instructs you to do so. I was correct in the discussion in that thread. Garlic was shown to reverse cancer in humans.
You are wrong about that, are wrong about this, and have NO experimental evidence that can support your position. You calling the doctors who do publish life saving treatments liars and frauds without any cause at all.
You are now desperately trying to make the discussion about someone telling people not to go to the doctor, when none of that was stated anywhere. Dishonest. Where is anyone telling anyone to prepare, mix, and administrate self injected Vitamin C into their arm? Rediculous. They are releasing this information to the public medical community of the world. Stop lying and stop trolling.
-
You are wrong about that, are wrong about this, and have NO experimental evidence that can support your position.
Oh well, if your argument is "ur wrong" then I guess I'll have to concede the point, there's simply no way of arguing with that.
And yet, despite me being wrong there is, strangely, no advice on the NHS page about coronavirus to take more vitamin C as a treatmend.
And when you go to the doctor and they find you have cancer I don't believe the first thing they say is "you need to eat more garlic, mate, that'll sort you out".
You have a habit of cherry-picking sources which align with your world view and ignoring or dismissing those that don't.
And given the whole host of things you just don't understand (how are you getting on with crepuscular rays and understanding that 3D models don't have a scale?), you are not someone whose opinions I can take seriously. Right now this is very much at the clinical trial stage, there are admittedly some promising results but a lot more peer review and testing is needed before conclusions can be drawn. You're only posting this because it aligns with your world-view. But given that part of your world-view is (from the other thread) that "Curing cancer is trivial", it shouldn't be taken seriously.
In brief, if you have symptoms, consult a medical professional.
-
They are releasing this information to the public medical community of the world.
... and you're releasing it to the non-medical community at large. You should leave it to the medical community to release it, if this video was not intended for the non-medical community at large ....
-
You are wrong about that, are wrong about this, and have NO experimental evidence that can support your position.
Oh well, if your argument is "ur wrong" then I guess I'll have to concede the point, there's simply no way of arguing with that.
The studies which show that Vitamin C IVs show benefit is direct physical evidence. An opinion piece on Snopes.com which does no experimentation is not evidence. Actually, is evidence, but of very low value in the face of direct experimental evidence showing your position to be wrong.
Your own opinion is also not evidence. We see that you have a very difficult time understanding what objective evidence is and is not.
And yet, despite me being wrong there is, strangely, no advice on the NHS page about coronavirus to take more vitamin C as a treatmend.
China is instructing NHS and others to look into this. It was released only a few days ago. This is world news. We once again receive opinion from you which should clearly be held in very low regard.
New studies on the Coronavirus are released and it's not on NHS in those few days so it's false or should be discarded? Funny, but no.
You have a habit of cherry-picking sources which align with your world view and ignoring or dismissing those that don't.
Once again, we have direct physical evidence versus OPINION. Which is more powerful?
Have you shown direct physical evidence? Yes or no?
Is whatever source you are quoting showing direct physical evidence? Yes or no?
Enough said. You are trying to win an argument against evidence based medicine with an opinion.
you are not someone whose opinions I can take seriously.
As you have posted not a shred of evidence to discredit the doctors or studies, we must discard your opinion. You continuously post things that you are wrong about, and are unable to sufficiently justify your position.
They are releasing this information to the public medical community of the world.
... and you're releasing it to the non-medical community at large. You should leave it to the medical community to release it, if this video was not intended for the non-medical community at large ....
The doctor in that video is pretty much telling you to talk to your doctor about it, go to one who does do this sort of thing, or otherwise advocate for further study. He's not telling anyone to mix and inject Vitamin C in their arm.
He's also providing information on what is being done in China. Doctors, medical professionals, and politicians also watch videos on youtube, whether they find it themselves or are linked to them, and this is another way to get information out.
-
While Tom does have evidence, it is an pre-published, un-reviewed, short term clinical trial. From what I saw, it doesn't have any link to the vitamin actually killing the virus, just that when given megandoses of V-C, some people felt better in a few days. I didn't read if they had other symptom management delivered or not.
But this is also China. Trust in their information is dubious at best. Best to wait for confirmation from other people.
Or better yet. Tom, get infected and take mega doses if vitamin C. See if you are cured/treated.
-
That does not mean he edited his post to eliminate the word "cure," when the article he referenced states the word, "treat."
No, it doesn't mean that. But I know he did because I remember what his original post said :)
Now, care to edit your post to reflect the word, "treat," rather than "cure," and if not, why not?
No, because my post doesn't use the word "cure". My source might but I can't edit that.
And my over-riding point, again, is to seek the advice of your local medical professionals if you have symptoms rather than follow advice you see online.
Your overriding point seems to post a source that doesn't address the issue.
Tom posted a source that contains the word "treat."
You posted a source that contains the word," cure," yet, here you are accusing Tom of using the word, "cure."
Highly typical stuff from you.
-
China is instructing NHS and others to look into this. It was released only a few days ago.
Exactly, so has had no time for proper peer review. I'm not saying that this shouldn't be looked into but neither should firm conclusions be given on the basis of it.
New studies on the Coronavirus are released and it's not on NHS in those few days so it's false or should be discarded?
It should be treated with caution and people should consult medical professionals if they have symptoms.
Once again, we have direct physical evidence versus OPINION. Which is more powerful?
For you the answer to that seems to depend on whether the evidence backs up your world view. As I said, you have a habit of cherry picking and ignoring a lot of physical evidence which shows you to be wrong about things.
You continuously post things that you are wrong about, and are unable to sufficiently justify your position.
Do I, though? There's a 14 page thread in AR about stuff you don't understand.
I spent 2 days failing to explain to you how a simple experiment with a laser and a boat worked. Finally someone else managed to explain it to you and you conceded I was right. I spent another couple of days explaining the shadow direction in an eclipse. You did finally understand that one too.
I remember you once stating that celestial bodies don't change angular size as proof of your ideas - I countered with yes they do, the planets do, and I provided a source. You never responded.
And now I'm explaining how crepuscular rays work and I note you haven't responded about that either, you have shown you don't understand about scale in 3D models.
That's just off the top of my head. These encounters should have demonstrated that I do actually know what I'm talking about.
When it comes to this, OK, I'm not a medical doctor. And I'll admit some of the trial results are encouraging and do deserve some further investigation. But I've just finished reading Bill Bryson's book about The Body and in that he notes there's a long-standing debate in medicine about how effective vitamins are and whether people really need to take supplements. That debate is far from over and evidence either way far from conclusive. The tone of your message, and the other thread I've mentioned, make me think you are implying otherwise.
Edit: this is the relevant quote from Byron's book:
"The greatest of vitamin controversies was stirred up by the American chemist Linus Pauling who had the distinction of winning not one but two Nobel Prizes. Pauling believed that massive doses of vitamin C were effective against colds, flu and even some cancers. He had no evidence for any of his claims, and all have been pretty well discredited by subsequent studies."
The doctor in that video is pretty much telling you to talk to your doctor about it, go to one who does do this sort of thing, or otherwise advocate for further study. He's not telling anyone to mix and inject Vitamin C in their arm.
That is good advice.
-
I am a bit late posting to this but just want to point out that Toms original post started with something like 'Once again nature provides the CURE'.
He edited his post, but it still says 'Surprise surprise' as if Tom had any clue that vitamin C would be an effective treatment.
I feel that if his post had just been a simple 'Hey look, vitamin C may possibly be successful in treating coronavirus.' it would have probably not generated any debate and would just be good news.
I said "surprise surprise, nature can cure disease", which is not an inaccurate statement, either. Nature can, and does. The vast majority of Coronavirus are cured naturally within the body, and regardless of Vitamin C. This internal natural curing of disease is indisputable, and routine. Vitamins are natural food for the body and provides the ammunition the body needs.
-
What do you mean by natural?
-
What do you mean by natural?
It exists in nature and is not an invention of man. Vitamins are food, and natural. Your body's processes are natural. Diseases are routinely cured in the body, with only food and water as input.
As opposed to using artificial drugs, which do not exist in nature.
-
The problem here is not that VC is or could be a part of treatment for COVID it's that it's seemingly positioned as THE treatment for COVID. Which lends a reader to believe, "That's all I need, an IV bag of VC and I'm good."
I think we'll find that VC is part of a cocktail treatment. Is it the panacea unto itself? Doubtful. Just be mindful of positioning.
-
Still waiting on a scientific paper on this.
Also, how can a vitamin cure a viral infection? Best it does is keep the immune system functional. So I guess if you're deficient, you'll see a boost.
But please, tell me what process causes the virus to die from contact with a mineral?
The tiny vitamin C crystals attach themselves to the virus and self-destruct, thereby effectively neutralizing the threat the virus poses to the person. Think about it like a minefield. The more vitamin C you take, the more crystal there will be in your body to float around and effectively destroy the virus. This is impossible to verify because microscopes can’t see the tiny crystal mines because they’re too small but you can prove it easily by simply taking the vitamin and watch as the virus is effectively neutralized from the victims blood stream.
-
Still waiting on a scientific paper on this.
Also, how can a vitamin cure a viral infection? Best it does is keep the immune system functional. So I guess if you're deficient, you'll see a boost.
But please, tell me what process causes the virus to die from contact with a mineral?
The tiny vitamin C crystals attach themselves to the virus and self-destruct, thereby effectively neutralizing the threat the virus poses to the person. Think about it like a minefield. The more vitamin C you take, the more crystal there will be in your body to float around and effectively destroy the virus. This is impossible to verify because microscopes can’t see the tiny crystal mines because they’re too small but you can prove it easily by simply taking the vitamin and watch as the virus is effectively neutralized from the victims blood stream.
You're joshing me, right?
-
The body allegedly turns Vitamin C into Hydrogen Peroxide in the body, which is water with an extra oxygen atom.
Coincidentally, direct oxygen therapy also appears to have an effect on the Coronavirus, as stated by the World Health Organization.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200301-sitrep-41-covid-19.pdf
WHO: "Oxygen therapy is the major treatment intervention for patients with severe COVID-19"
There are also some other sources on that topic. Quick search:
www.upi.com/amp/Top_News/World-News/2020/02/14/Oxygen-therapy-working-for-coronavirus-patient-Seoul-says/6651581696794/
"Feb. 14 (UPI) -- Oxygen therapy has been effective in the treatment of a critically ill patient infected with the new strain of coronavirus in South Korea, local health authorities said Friday.
Jeong Eun-kyeong, director of Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said one of the remaining 21 COVID-19 patients in the country was still in critical condition this week. The patient's symptoms have been improving after oxygen was administered using a face mask, local news service Newsis reported."
-
The body allegedly turns Vitamin C into Hydrogen Peroxide in the body, which is water with an extra oxygen atom.
Coincidentally, direct oxygen therapy also appears to have an effect on the Coronavirus, as stated by the World Health Organization.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200301-sitrep-41-covid-19.pdf
WHO: "Oxygen therapy is the major treatment intervention for patients with severe COVID-19"
There are also some other sources on that topic. Quick search:
www.upi.com/amp/Top_News/World-News/2020/02/14/Oxygen-therapy-working-for-coronavirus-patient-Seoul-says/6651581696794/
"Feb. 14 (UPI) -- Oxygen therapy has been effective in the treatment of a critically ill patient infected with the new strain of coronavirus in South Korea, local health authorities said Friday.
Jeong Eun-kyeong, director of Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said one of the remaining 21 COVID-19 patients in the country was still in critical condition this week. The patient's symptoms have been improving after oxygen was administered using a face mask, local news service Newsis reported."
Where are you getting the information that Vitamin C "cAn TuRn iNtO" Hydrogen Peroxide? I hope you're aware that consuming hydrogen peroxide can cause vomiting and burns. ::) ::)
https://www.poison.org/articles/2012-jun/hydrogen-peroxide (https://www.poison.org/articles/2012-jun/hydrogen-peroxide)
-
The body allegedly turns Vitamin C into Hydrogen Peroxide in the body, which is water with an extra oxygen atom.
Coincidentally, direct oxygen therapy also appears to have an effect on the Coronavirus, as stated by the World Health Organization.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200301-sitrep-41-covid-19.pdf
WHO: "Oxygen therapy is the major treatment intervention for patients with severe COVID-19"
There are also some other sources on that topic. Quick search:
www.upi.com/amp/Top_News/World-News/2020/02/14/Oxygen-therapy-working-for-coronavirus-patient-Seoul-says/6651581696794/
"Feb. 14 (UPI) -- Oxygen therapy has been effective in the treatment of a critically ill patient infected with the new strain of coronavirus in South Korea, local health authorities said Friday.
Jeong Eun-kyeong, director of Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said one of the remaining 21 COVID-19 patients in the country was still in critical condition this week. The patient's symptoms have been improving after oxygen was administered using a face mask, local news service Newsis reported."
Where are you getting the information that Vitamin C "cAn TuRn iNtO" Hydrogen Peroxide? I hope you're aware that consuming hydrogen peroxide can cause vomiting and burns. ::) ::)
https://www.poison.org/articles/2012-jun/hydrogen-peroxide (https://www.poison.org/articles/2012-jun/hydrogen-peroxide)
Oh it does. Read the wiki entry on vitamin c.
Its a biproduct of some reactions, used in some various functions like in the liver. But I don't think it makes it into the blood and its in very small amounts.
-
The body allegedly turns Vitamin C into Hydrogen Peroxide in the body, which is water with an extra oxygen atom.
Coincidentally, direct oxygen therapy also appears to have an effect on the Coronavirus, as stated by the World Health Organization.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200301-sitrep-41-covid-19.pdf
WHO: "Oxygen therapy is the major treatment intervention for patients with severe COVID-19"
There are also some other sources on that topic. Quick search:
www.upi.com/amp/Top_News/World-News/2020/02/14/Oxygen-therapy-working-for-coronavirus-patient-Seoul-says/6651581696794/
"Feb. 14 (UPI) -- Oxygen therapy has been effective in the treatment of a critically ill patient infected with the new strain of coronavirus in South Korea, local health authorities said Friday.
Jeong Eun-kyeong, director of Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said one of the remaining 21 COVID-19 patients in the country was still in critical condition this week. The patient's symptoms have been improving after oxygen was administered using a face mask, local news service Newsis reported."
Where are you getting the information that Vitamin C "cAn TuRn iNtO" Hydrogen Peroxide? I hope you're aware that consuming hydrogen peroxide can cause vomiting and burns. ::) ::)
https://www.poison.org/articles/2012-jun/hydrogen-peroxide (https://www.poison.org/articles/2012-jun/hydrogen-peroxide)
Oh it does. Read the wiki entry on vitamin c.
Its a biproduct of some reactions, used in some various functions like in the liver. But I don't think it makes it into the blood and its in very small amounts.
Ok I see. On Wikipedia, it says that "In plants, vitamin C is a substrate for ascorbate peroxidase. This enzyme utilizes ascorbate to neutralize excess hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) by converting it to water (H2O) and oxygen.[5][20]"
Interesting. However, it is not recommended for treating cancer.
" At high tissue concentrations, ascorbic acid is described as acting as a pro-oxidant, generating hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) to kill tumor cells. The same literature claims that ascorbic acid acts as an antioxidant, thereby reducing the adverse effects of chemotherapy and radiation therapy.[41][42] Research continues in this field, but a 2014 review concluded: "Currently, the use of high-dose intravenous vitamin C [as an anticancer agent] cannot be recommended outside of a clinical trial."[44] A 2015 review added: "There is no high-quality evidence to suggest that ascorbate supplementation in cancer patients either enhances the antitumor effects of chemotherapy or reduces its toxicity. Evidence for ascorbate's anti-tumor effects was limited to case reports and observational and uncontrolled studies."[45]"
-
What if your doctor takes the advice from a pre-published clinical trial and just pumps you with Vit. C until you get better?
Well, then you're a bit fucked.
But I'd rather take my chances with a medical professional than "some bloke" who says he's a doctor online.
How are you "a bit fucked," if you get better?
-
"until you get better" doesn't necessarily mean he will ever get better, they could be pumping vitamin c into his cold dead corpse with high hopes he'll get better.
-
The body allegedly turns Vitamin C into Hydrogen Peroxide in the body, which is water with an extra oxygen atom.
Coincidentally, direct oxygen therapy also appears to have an effect on ghe Coronavirus, as stated by the World Health Organization.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200301-sitrep-41-covid-19.pdf
WHO: "Oxygen therapy is the major treatment intervention for patients with severe COVID-19"
There are also some other sources on that topic. Quick search:
www.upi.com/amp/Top_News/World-News/2020/02/14/Oxygen-therapy-working-for-coronavirus-patient-Seoul-says/6651581696794/
"Feb. 14 (UPI) -- Oxygen therapy has been effective in the treatment of a critically ill patient infected with the new strain of coronavirus in South Korea, local health authorities said Friday.
Jeong Eun-kyeong, director of Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said one of the remaining 21 COVID-19 patients in the country was still in critical condition this week. The patient's symptoms have been improving after oxygen was administered using a face mask, local news service Newsis reported."
Hey Tom, here is a fact-check about Lemons and the Coronavirus
:)
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lemons-coronavirus/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lemons-coronavirus/)
-
And this https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/?collection-id=242217 (https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/?collection-id=242217)
-
Hey Tom, here is a fact-check about Lemons and the Coronavirus
:)
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lemons-coronavirus/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lemons-coronavirus/)
And this https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/?collection-id=242217 (https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/?collection-id=242217)
Ah....
SNOPES...
Absolutely everyone's GO TO SOURCE for medical information!
Why should I believe snopes when it comes to any subject?
snopes is actually strawmanning the hell out of this vitamin C thing...
-
Hey Tom, here is a fact-check about Lemons and the Coronavirus
:)
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lemons-coronavirus/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lemons-coronavirus/)
And this https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/?collection-id=242217 (https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/?collection-id=242217)
Ah....
SNOPES...
Absolutely everyone's GO TO SOURCE for medical information!
Why should I believe snopes when it comes to any subject?
snopes is actually strawmanning the hell out of this vitamin C thing...
Actually read the article and actually try to rebut it with your own evidence; isn't that the premise of this forum? Snopes is quite reliable as of busting myths and urban legends. It is not a medical website because it is a FACT-CHECKING website, but it does cover over common misconceptions dealing with the coronavirus(Heck it even has its own collection!).
Okay, back to your claim about "straw-manning" the article. Here is an excerpt from the article:
"Vitamin C is important to maintain “redox” balance in the body’s tissues – these are types of reactions in cells that add or remove oxygen, and are essential for many processes such as generating energy in cells. These same reactions, though, can create products harmful to human cells – such as reactive oxygen species, which react with lipids (fat), proteins and nucleic acids. Vitamin C can lessen these harmful reactions. It also helps enzymes build collagen, which is necessary for supporting our body’s tissues.
Although vitamin C doesn’t have miraculous disease-curing properties, some research has also shown it can help the immune system fight off bacteria and viruses. Its role in protecting against viral infections was shown in a recent review which found that immune cells need vitamin C to produce proteins that activate the immune system throughout the body against virus attacks./ These slight effects of vitamin C on the coronavirus that causes the common cold has spurred a new clinical trial looking to cure COVID-19 infections using very high intravenous doses of vitamin C. These trials have just started and no results are yet posted.(paragraphs 5,6,9)"
I cannot show the URL links but it is providing sources from MEDICAL WEBSITES such as the NCBI so it correlated to it. You cannot tell me that this is straw-manning Vitamin C because this isn't a fallacy.
-
Hey Tom, here is a fact-check about Lemons and the Coronavirus
:)
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lemons-coronavirus/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lemons-coronavirus/)
And this https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/?collection-id=242217 (https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/?collection-id=242217)
Ah....
SNOPES...
Absolutely everyone's GO TO SOURCE for medical information!
Why should I believe snopes when it comes to any subject?
snopes is actually strawmanning the hell out of this vitamin C thing...
Actually read the article and actually try to rebut it with your own evidence; isn't that the premise of this forum? Snopes is quite reliable as of busting myths and urban legends. It is not a medical website because it is a FACT-CHECKING website, but it does cover over common misconceptions dealing with the coronavirus(Heck it even has its own collection!).
Okay, back to your claim about "straw-manning" the article. Here is an excerpt from the article:
"Vitamin C is important to maintain “redox” balance in the body’s tissues – these are types of reactions in cells that add or remove oxygen, and are essential for many processes such as generating energy in cells. These same reactions, though, can create products harmful to human cells – such as reactive oxygen species, which react with lipids (fat), proteins and nucleic acids. Vitamin C can lessen these harmful reactions. It also helps enzymes build collagen, which is necessary for supporting our body’s tissues.
Although vitamin C doesn’t have miraculous disease-curing properties, some research has also shown it can help the immune system fight off bacteria and viruses. Its role in protecting against viral infections was shown in a recent review which found that immune cells need vitamin C to produce proteins that activate the immune system throughout the body against virus attacks./ These slight effects of vitamin C on the coronavirus that causes the common cold has spurred a new clinical trial looking to cure COVID-19 infections using very high intravenous doses of vitamin C. These trials have just started and no results are yet posted.(paragraphs 5,6,9)"
I cannot show the URL links but it is providing sources from MEDICAL WEBSITES such as the NCBI so it correlated to it. You cannot tell me that this is straw-manning Vitamin C because this isn't a fallacy.
Uh, yeah...
I can tell you and everyone else here...snopes is doing just that.
First, snopes didn't write one of the articles...it is a reprint...
Within the preface it states: "it does not, however, represent the work of Snopes fact-checkers or editors..."
The same article links to other sources stating that claims of curing coronavirus by taking vitamin C are false...
The whole trouble is the only thing you find when you do a search about this topic you find articles claiming it WON'T!
So, it is a strawman to claim there was anything there about curing coronavirus with vitamin C to begin with.
The words treatment and prevention does not = cure.
-
First of all, if this article is a reprint, where is the original(reply to the url link)? Second of all, if you try to find the article to support your belief about curing the coronavirus and it doesn't exist or is false, it is probably fake.
-
First of all, if this article is a reprint, where is the original(reply to the url link)? Second of all, if you try to find the article to support your belief about curing the coronavirus and it doesn't exist or is false, it is probably fake.
You provided the snopes info...ask them where the link is.
-
First of all, if this article is a reprint, where is the original(reply to the url link)? Second of all, if you try to find the article to support your belief about curing the coronavirus and it doesn't exist or is false, it is probably fake.
You provided the snopes info...ask them where the link is.
YOU'RE the one who said that this article is a reprint and I am asking you that if this article is a reprint (it's most likely not), provide me the link. I did provide Snopes information about the coronavirus and Vitamin C but since your claim was that this article was a reprint, I want to see the link.
-
First of all, if this article is a reprint, where is the original(reply to the url link)? Second of all, if you try to find the article to support your belief about curing the coronavirus and it doesn't exist or is false, it is probably fake.
You provided the snopes info...ask them where the link is.
YOU'RE the one who said that this article is a reprint
No, I am not the one saying it...
snopes is saying it...
and I am asking you that if this article is a reprint (it's most likely not),
Well, you are just flat out wrong...
https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/?collection-id=242217
(https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/?collection-id=242217)"This article by Peter McCaffery is republished here with permission from The Conversation."
provide me the link.
Get with snopes.
I did provide Snopes information about the coronavirus and Vitamin C but since your claim was that this article was a reprint, I want to see the link.
I think we have found a winner in the sweepstakes in the category of providing misleading and false information regarding coronavirus.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Second of all, if you try to find the article to support your belief about curing the coronavirus and it doesn't exist or is false, it is probably fake.
I forgot to address this when I first replied, so allow me now...
Why would you promote the idea of a curefor any viral infection?
-
First, snopes didn't write one of the articles...it is a reprint...
Within the preface it states: "it does not, however, represent the work of Snopes fact-checkers or editors..."
The same article links to other sources stating that claims of curing coronavirus by taking vitamin C are false...
The whole trouble is the only thing you find when you do a search about this topic you find articles claiming it WON'T!
So, it is a strawman to claim there was anything there about curing coronavirus with vitamin C to begin with.
The words treatment and prevention does not = cure.
These are your words. Why are you asking me to contact Snopes when you claimed that the article was a reprint. Plus, I'm not spreading misinformation about Vitamin C and the Coronavirus; in fact, there are other articles that report this and this article provides sources and evidence why Vitamin C does not prevent or treat the Coronavirus. I'll be glad to show you articles that are not from a meth head who made conspiracy theories in less than 5 seconds
-
Why would you promote the idea of a curefor any viral infection?
Because isn't that the TOPIC of this forum? ;) ::)
-
Just in case you didn't know this is the title: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
As much I don't like to call mean things to people, if you cannot comprehend what has been explained to you that has been obvious, you are analytically illiterate.
-
First, snopes didn't write one of the articles...it is a reprint...
Within the preface it states: "it does not, however, represent the work of Snopes fact-checkers or editors..."
The same article links to other sources stating that claims of curing coronavirus by taking vitamin C are false...
The whole trouble is the only thing you find when you do a search about this topic you find articles claiming it WON'T!
So, it is a strawman to claim there was anything there about curing coronavirus with vitamin C to begin with.
The words treatment and prevention does not = cure.
These are your words. Why are you asking me to contact Snopes when you claimed that the article was a reprint. Plus, I'm not spreading misinformation about Vitamin C and the Coronavirus; in fact, there are other articles that report this and this article provides sources and evidence why Vitamin C does not prevent or treat the Coronavirus. I'll be glad to show you articles that are not from a meth head who made conspiracy theories in less than 5 seconds
I didn't claim the article was a reprint.
snopes did.
Exercise your analytical skills on the following sentence:
snopes claimed the article they presented was a reprint.
okay?
-
Why would you promote the idea of a curefor any viral infection?
Because isn't that the TOPIC of this forum? ;) ::)
No.
The topic of this forum is "Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C"
Exercise your analytical skills and kindly find the word "cured," in the title.
-
Just in case you didn't know this is the title: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
As much I don't like to call mean things to people, if you cannot comprehend what has been explained to you that has been obvious, you are analytically illiterate.
As stated in my previous post, you are clearly the one lacking in analytical skills.
-
Oh, excuse me. TREAT. Still, if you haven't brought the "rEpRiNt", there isn't one and this is an original article. Vitamin isn't the best to treat the coronavirus. Snopes writes that "Intravenous application of vitamin C will result in much higher and faster levels of the vitamin in the blood than any amount found in vitamin C supplements taken orally. Though this approach could increase vitamin C’s mild protective effect, this is yet hypothetical and intravenous injection comes with its own risks, such as infection, blood vessel damage, air embolism or blood clots./
So although vitamin C does have some small effect on the common cold, it’s unlikely that taking large amounts of vitamin C supplements will cure a COVID-19 infection – or have a large effect at all." This doesn't sound like a successful treatment.
I'll provide you another article...
-
On the side note, taking a bit of Vitamin C doesn't cause any side effects, taking megadoses such as in countries like China could cause side-effects like cramping; taking Vitamin C doesn't prevent or really treat the coronavirus.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-resource-center (https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-resource-center)
-
Oh, excuse me. TREAT. Still, if you haven't brought the "rEpRiNt", there isn't one and this is an original article.
Word for word, this is exactly from snopes preface to the article:"Within the preface it states: "it does not, however, represent the work of Snopes fact-checkers or editors..."
So, that is not an original article from Snopes.
Vitamin isn't the best to treat the coronavirus. Snopes writes that "Intravenous application of vitamin C will result in much higher and faster levels of the vitamin in the blood than any amount found in vitamin C supplements taken orally. Though this approach could increase vitamin C’s mild protective effect, this is yet hypothetical and intravenous injection comes with its own risks, such as infection, blood vessel damage, air embolism or blood clots./
There are potential side effects to every treatment and now, you are strawmanning the OP.
The OP never stated anything remotely near the word "best."
So although vitamin C does have some small effect on the common cold, it’s unlikely that taking large amounts of vitamin C supplements will cure a COVID-19 infection – or have a large effect at all." [/u] This doesn't sound like a successful treatment.
I'll provide you another article...
Nobody said cure.
Just stop.
-
I meant treatment. Excuse me. ::)
-
Surprise! Vitamin C IVs now used by American clinics to fight COVID-19.
https://local12.com/health/medical-edge-reports/iv-vitamin-c-being-used-to-fight-covid-19
IV vitamin C being used to fight COVID-19
CINCINNATI (WKRC) - The National Institutes of Health just launched a new trial of a common vitamin being used in some hospitals to treat the coronavirus.
One of the potentially deadly complications of the coronavirus is what's called a severe acute respiratory infection - better known as pneumonia.
The National Institute of Health has just launched a new trial to find out if IV vitamin C may play a significant role in fighting it.
Doctor Eldred Taylor showed he's been using IV vitamin C in his practice through Facetime.
He is careful to say it won't prevent COVID-19. He treats patients with it who appear to have a need for it after he takes a full medical history.
It is being used in several hospitals around the country right now to help the lungs fight back
"It suppresses this thing called the cytokine storm and these cytokines go to the small little air sacs in the lungs, and inflame them, where it's very hard to transfer oxygen into the blood," explained Dr. Taylor. "And that's why these people are on ventilators under pressure to force oxygen across those membranes. So if you can decrease that inflammation then that's going to allow these patients to breathe easier."
The dosage that is needed is still being determined and does vary by hospital protocol.
Another American doctor on Vitamin C IV: "The patients who received vitamin C did significantly better than those who did not get the Vitamin C" (https://www.benzinga.com/pressreleases/20/04/p15713936/the-american-association-of-naturopathic-physicians-urges-physicians-and-hospitals-to-utilize-iv-v)
New York hospitals treating coronavirus patients with vitamin C (https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/new-york-hospitals-treating-coronavirus-patients-with-vitamin-c/)
Also: The American Association of Naturopathic Physicians Urges Physicians and Hospitals to Utilize IV Vitamin C to Combat the COVID-19 Pandemic (https://www.benzinga.com/pressreleases/20/04/p15713936/the-american-association-of-naturopathic-physicians-urges-physicians-and-hospitals-to-utilize-iv-v)
-
So no hard data, just trials and anecdotes. Got it.
-
So no hard data, just trials and anecdotes. Got it.
It says that American doctors just started using this for COVID-19 very recently. You want them to do a trial in a week? Sounds like trolling to me.
-
So no hard data, just trials and anecdotes. Got it.
It says that American doctors just started using this for COVID-19 very recently. You want them to do a trial in a week? Sounds like trolling to me.
I wasn’t expecting anything. You said it’s being used to fight COVID but that isn’t true. They are hoping it will fight COVID, but the truth is they don’t know. So all we have is a trial and some anecdotes. Got it?
-
So no hard data, just trials and anecdotes. Got it.
It says that American doctors just started using this for COVID-19 very recently. You want them to do a trial in a week? Sounds like trolling to me.
I wasn’t expecting anything. You said it’s being used to fight COVID but that isn’t true. They are hoping it will fight COVID, but the truth is they don’t know. So all we have is a trial and some anecdotes. Got it?
Hello Ramaset! How am I strawmanning this argument? I'm presenting an article showing why Vitamin C isn't an "effective tReAtMeNt" yet I'm being accused of it.
-
Please learn to understand how quotes work.
-
Please learn to understand how quotes work.
No.
Naah I'm kidding. I should have just pressed reply.
-
This is very interesting...
From what I have read in this thread (I did a little skimming), Tom is touting Vitamin C will help treat COVID-19 (based off scientific evidence).
Vitamin C supposedly breaks down to Hydrogen Peroxide in the body, which in turn kills cells - also stated in this thread.
This actually makes some sense.
With regards to other respiratory viruses like influenza, when infected by the virus, the body attempts to destroy the infected cells - this is how our bodies "cure" ourselves from the virus.
If it is true that Vitamin C breaks down to Hydrogen Peroxide, which in turn kills certain cells in the body, it IS feasible that Vitamin C could help treat COVID-19, and increase recovery times.
It would be even more interesting if there is a targeted response whereby the weakest cells were destroyed first - this is also much like how the body cleanses itself from viruses.
I hope there are more studies done on this.
-
The breakdown happens in specific areas, such as the liver. If it were released into the blood stream, it would jist destroy whatever cell it came into contact with first. So useless.
-
If it is true that Vitamin C breaks down to Hydrogen Peroxide, which in turn kills certain cells in the body, it IS feasible that Vitamin C could help treat COVID-19, and increase recovery times.
As stated in the post above, this happens when the liver breaks it down, so it doesn't generate the hydrogen peroxide in the body.
The problem with "X kills Y in a test tube" thinking is our bodies are not test tubes. Know what kills viruses? Napalm. Pour some napalm in a petri dish and it will kill every virus in it.
But nobody is saying, "Hey... maybe we should inhale burning napalm! It will kill the virus in our lungs!"
Sure, and then kill your lungs, and you. Hydrogen peroxide kills anything it touches. It doesn't JUST kill infected cells. You can't drink it or inject it safely.
Vitamin C isn't magic. It's just a chemical compound, one of thousands our bodies use. There is zero evidence to suspect that is specifically has some kind of super effect against COVID or other viruses.
We all want a magic COVID cure but Vitamin C just isn't it. We're just going to have to wait for actual researchers to find it for us.
-
There would also have to be a mechanism that gathers the peroxide and then targets it to the virus. Normally white blood cells create the chemical internally.
-
And this wouldn't be called as a "successful treatment" if it is only one case, you would have to prove this in other cases because it is possible that the treatment wasn't successful. And like JSS says with his palm example, just because it kills viruses in a test tube, it doesn't mean that inhaling it in our body will treat it. We'll just have to wait for the vaccine and also follow social distancing orders.
-
And this wouldn't be called as a "successful treatment" if it is only one case, you would have to prove this in other cases because it is possible that the treatment wasn't successful. And like JSS says with his palm example, just because it kills viruses in a test tube, it doesn't mean that inhaling it in our body will treat it. We'll just have to wait for the vaccine and also follow social distancing orders.
Woah, who said anything about inhaling vitamin C?
Regardless whether it directly treats COVID, or any other virus, it will not harm you with a typical dose, and will help your immune system.
-
And this wouldn't be called as a "successful treatment" if it is only one case, you would have to prove this in other cases because it is possible that the treatment wasn't successful. And like JSS says with his palm example, just because it kills viruses in a test tube, it doesn't mean that inhaling it in our body will treat it. We'll just have to wait for the vaccine and also follow social distancing orders.
Woah, who said anything about inhaling vitamin C?
Regardless whether it directly treats COVID, or any other virus, it will not harm you with a typical dose, and will help your immune system.
I agree with your assessment here and I didn't mean to "inhale Vitamin C (my bad for not explaining myself as clear as possible)" :) because there have been studies that it can boost the immune system; I don't agree with people who claim that it will treat with pandemics despite no fully assessed- evidence. Like Kenneth Copeland claiming that praying with him will get rid of the coronavirus.
-
https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/
As much as it pains me to side with Tom B, Snopes has been shown to be anything but impartial.
Note, not defending the Vitamin C
-
Have they though? I mean, I found this:
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/is-snopes-biased-reliable/
But then you could say is that reliable and so it goes on. I've generally found them to be reliable.
-
Have they though?
Yes, they have.
Try to escape the shit-stack of citing Web articles to defend other Web articles and engage in some thinking of your own for a moment.
Here's my take: A fact-checking service that can't tell the difference between Babylon-Bee-style satire and deliberate malicious disinformation is not reliable.
Now, try to form your own take.
-
Have they though?
Yes, they have.
Examples?
My own take is I've found them to be reliable. I don't know how else to judge a fact checking service other than whether the things they post are factually correct. If you have examples of them posting stuff which isn't and especially if they have not later corrected that then show me some and I can have a look.
EDIT: I found this:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2016/12/22/the-daily-mail-snopes-story-and-fact-checking-the-fact-checkers/#122bf24f227f
Raises some concerns about the way they work. OK, but does it matter how they work if the end result is they get things right?
So are they actually getting things wrong? What examples are there of them doing so?
-
Examples?
I gave you one already. They decried the Babylon Bee, an Onion-style satirical website, to be fake news. In my view, if you are so inept as to not be able to tell the difference between the two, you are not reliable.
What's next? Are we going to look very serious at each other why declaring that The Daily Mash does not accurately report the news? Christ on a bike.
-
I gave you one already. They decried the Babylon Bee, an Onion-style satirical website, to be fake news. In my view, if you are so inept as to not be able to tell the difference between the two, you are not reliable.
Except they could tell the difference. They labelled it satire:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/georgia-lawmaker-go-back-claim/
THEY could tell the difference, other people seemingly couldn't. They even explain that in the above, they give examples of people who didn't "get" it. And I note this link has this comment:
Editors’ Note: Some readers interpreted wording in a previous version of this fact check as imputing deceptive intent on the part of Babylon Bee in its original satirical piece about Georgia state Rep. Erica Thomas, and that was not the editors’ aim. To address any confusion, we have revised some of the wording mostly for tone and clarity. We are in the process of pioneering industry standards for how the fact-checking industry should best address humor and satire.
So they have the ability to self-correct when they do get things wrong or word things badly.
-
They labelled it satire
No, that was after a loud public outcry over how ridiculous their inability to fact-check was. They weren't able to tell the difference, where literally everyone without a severe mental impairment could. Sure, once their monumental fuck-up circled the Earth four times over, they corrected it.
You're trying to describe it as some virtuous act, when in reality it was a long-overdue clean-up. It took them years to stop fucking up, and in the meantime social media sites like Facebook used their incorrect "fact-checks" to impose restrictions on the satirical site, even threatening their monetisation streams. Luckily, now that Snopes is largely discredited, social media sites mostly stopped relying on it. This is a good thing - trusting random blogs as your source of facts tends not to work out.
Your insistence on defending them despite the obvious tells us something about you, too. Either you didn't bother to fact-check (haaaaa) the story before forming your opinion, or you're so dedicated to Snopes that you can't accept their flaws. I'm assuming the former - you don't strike me as the kind of guy to fall in love with a random blog.
If you're not going to do any digging of your own, at least have a look at the mediocre work Wikipedia has already done for you (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Babylon_Bee#Snopes.com_controversy).
-
No, that was after a loud public outcry over how ridiculous their inability to fact-check was.
What's the issue? They acknowledged they made a mistake and they fixed it.
They weren't able to tell the difference
They absolutely were.
Snopes determines what to cover based on reader input via email, Facebook and Twitter as well as what’s trending on Google, social media and its own website searches. As a result, it often covers claims and satire that, to many, may seem obviously false or intentionally humorous.
So of course they know that the site is satirical, but this particular article seemed to be causing confusion because of stupids - examples are listed in the Snopes article - so they responded. In their response they were a bit harsh and questioned whether the BabylonBee article even counted as satire or was appropriate:
The original Snopes piece included the subheadline, “we’re not sure if fanning the flames of controversy and muddying the details of a news story classify an article as ‘satire.’” It called the Bee story a “ruse” and suggested it had been published “in an apparent attempt to maximize the online indignation.”
(source: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/03/us/snopes-babylon-bee.html )
So sure, they went in a bit hard but if you're suggesting they looked at the BabylonBee article and thought "Wow, did that happen?! We must investigate!" then that's obviously bollox.
Luckily, now that Snopes is largely discredited, social media sites mostly stopped relying on it.
Snopes pulled out of the partnership with FB - admittedly my source for that is Snopes but I've not found anything which contradicts it.
I don't think Snopes is largely discredited. They seem to be highly regarded by most.
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/is-snopes-biased-reliable/
Obviously people with certain agendas will have a different view
trusting random blogs as your source of facts tends not to work out.
That's why I don't pay much heed to your Wiki (haaaaa) . But Snopes aren't exactly a random blog, their raison d'etre is fact checking.
Your insistence on defending them despite the obvious tells us something about you, too.
Sure. And your insistence on defaming them without much real evidence tells us something about you too.
I wouldn't say I'm "dedicated" to Snopes, but I've found them to be reliable.
Your criticism of them isn't based on a whole load of things on their site which are wrong, your best shot seems to be "They thought a BB article was real!!!1!1!!".
Which clearly isn't what happened here.
I've done some "digging of my own", the NY Times article seemed to give a pretty balanced account.
-
Sure. And your insistence on defaming them without much real evidence tells us something about you too.
I'm not "defaming" anyone - I'm pointing out fairly simple facts, to which your best response is that you've "personally found Snopes reliable" (how did you establish that?).
Unfortunately, providing you with sources is a bit difficult, since Snopes mysteriously decided to opt out of the Wayback Machine shortly after they lost their partnerships (plural) and edited their articles to stop the bleeding. I wonder why they did that. 🤔🤔🤔
Your criticism of them isn't based on a whole load of things on their site which are wrong, your best shot seems to be "They thought a BB article was real!!!1!1!!".
My point, which I think I've made quite succinctly, is that an organisation which fails to distinguish between satire and deliberate disinformation (or deliberately blurs the lines between the two) can be described as "not impartial". That was the original position you chose to contest. So, on the one hand, we have a media organisation that the big players are no longer willing to touch with a long pole, and which kow-towed to the Bee just in time not to get sued out of existence. On the other hand, we have your personal credulity.
Don't use shit sources to back up your arguments. You'll be a happier man. And when they do finally go bankrupt, you'll already have alternatives that don't suck lined up. Win-win-win ;)
-
I'm not "defaming" anyone - I'm pointing out fairly simple facts, to which your best response is that you've "personally found Snopes reliable" (how did you establish that?).
Right. The bit in bold is a really good question.
How do you fact check the fact checkers? All I can say is they seem to be well regarded in the fact checking area - I provided a source for that. And just generally I can't think of an occasion when I've used the site to check something and then later found that what Snopes told me was wrong.
Have you?
The example you gave wasn't them getting something wrong exactly. The story they reported on was factually incorrect, but it was from a satire site which they obviously knew. They gave examples of people being confused by it but I agree they should have initially labelled it as Satire rather than False/ They admitted this and corrected it. Maybe they only did that in response to a backlash but whatever, they didn't double down like they could have.
they lost their partnerships (plural)
Do you have a source for that? I've been focusing on their partnership with FB which according to all the sources I've found Snopes left.
You're claiming that the "big players" won't touch them, what's your source for that?
My point, which I think I've made quite succinctly, is that an organisation which fails to distinguish between satire and deliberate disinformation (or deliberately blurs the lines between the two) can be described as "not impartial".
How does that term apply to a fact checking site? Their job is to determine truth. Something is either true or it isn't. How does impartiality come into that? Do you mean in terms of the things they choose to cover or choose not to? From what I understand they choose those based on what is trending and things which they're pointed towards.
Ultimately I'd suggest the stature of a fact checking organisation should lie in whether the things they post are accurate. You gave an example where they perhaps approached things in the wrong way but you haven't provided a whole list of things they've published which are just factually incorrect. That would be a better way of discrediting them. Whether they're impartial in terms of the things they cover is a separate issue, I'm willing to concede they might be (although haven't personally seen evidence of that, not that I've really looked. Generally I've used them to check FB memes which tend not to be political. They've served me well for that.
-
Dammit. This is where my Joe Rogan link should have gone. Sorry if you already saw it.
I blame the mods. They should never have merged the coronavirus threads.
https://youtu.be/7eRR7j1OCOs?t=3575
-
Well I'm old and take 1100 mg C, stay in hot hot sun while taking my Vit D 100% /100% zinc
What's Covid? Oh that mask sheet.
-
Well I'm old and take 1100 mg C, stay in hot hot sun while taking my Vit D 100% /100% zinc
What's Covid? Oh that mask sheet.
You do realize that taking these vitamins will help anyone generally stay healthy from any number of ailments and diseases. It’s not a magical cure for covid.
-
To be fair Vit D appears to be quite an Ed fe Croce prophylactic against respiratory illness.
-
Well I'm old and take 1100 mg C, stay in hot hot sun while taking my Vit D 100% /100% zinc
What's Covid? Oh that mask sheet.
You do realize that taking these vitamins will help anyone generally stay healthy from any number of ailments and diseases. It’s not a magical cure for covid.
You're correct. Not a cure, but effective treatment.
-
Well I'm old and take 1100 mg C, stay in hot hot sun while taking my Vit D 100% /100% zinc
What's Covid? Oh that mask sheet.
You do realize that taking these vitamins will help anyone generally stay healthy from any number of ailments and diseases. It’s not a magical cure for covid.
You're correct. Not a cure, but effective treatment.
An effective treatment the same way making sure they drink lots of water and rest is good treatment of the symptoms, but doesn't actually treat or cure the disease itself.
Nobody is saying water is an 'effective treatment' for COVID, and a lack of water is even worse than lack of vitamin c.
The only thing vitamin c treats is a lack of vitamin c. It's not a cure, it's not a treatment, it's nothing more than water or giving someone a blanket.
People shouldn't be misled into thinking they can cure COVID by taking a vitamin.
-
Vitamin D literally helps the immune system fight respiratory disease so it’s a more targeted treatment than water or even Vitamin C