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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8000 on: January 03, 2021, 05:03:13 AM »
Ranma and stack are correct.  The bias is not the facts being reported, its how you interprit it. 

Bias news occurs when words are chosen to convey a specific image.  Which is common as we all have bias, but is possible to remove from use.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8001 on: January 03, 2021, 07:52:25 AM »
You have the biased image in your head that if it is reported that person Y stabbed person X then Y must be bad. .

Most people would assume that the person stabbing another person was the bad person if you gave them a sentence like that.

Feel free to ask a random stranger who they perceive to the bad person when you state that someone stabbed another person yesterday.

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You have the biased image in your head that if it is reported that person Y stabbed person X then Y must be bad. That's your interpretation, not the words themselves.

Words have consequences. It goes two ways. People have inherent biases, and it can't be solved by pretending that it's their fault.

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You make it seem like it would need to be, "It appears that person Y was found holding the non-sharp end of a knife that was connected to the sharper end which was seen to be 4" beyond the dermis intruding upon the inner realms of the abdomen of person X yesterday. It very well could have been with murderous intent that the blade found its way there, or just as equally it could have been the result of a self defense posture by pesron Y, or equally as well it could have been that person X accidentally fell toward the sharp utensil being held by person Y, an out-and-out accident. An investigation has been initiated."

That's a little better. Giving more options does make it less biased.

On the other hand if you said "it could have been this or that" to everything in your newspaper people might accuse you of trivializing things which might be heinous, and that you are are sending off a meaningless philosophical stance. Can't please everyone. Someone will think you're biased and are trying to send off some message.

Even reporting it at all shows that you may want to convey a message of some sort. Not all periodicals report the killings in their towns. Merely reporting it is a message in itself. Most newspapers don't report suicides because it hurts the families of victims and the status of their towns. The same could be said about reporting other crimes. You have to balance how you want to be perceived with the message you want to convey.

Everyone is sending a non-impartial message whenever they report or say anything. It can't be escaped, and can't be denied. Bias exists, and is inherent in everything we say and everything we read.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8002 on: January 03, 2021, 08:04:02 AM »
1+1=2
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8003 on: January 03, 2021, 08:59:50 AM »
Everyone is sending a non-impartial message whenever they report or say anything. It can't be escaped, and can't be denied. Bias exists, and is inherent in everything we say and everything we read.
Right. Weirdly, I basically agree with you.

So...if you’re aware of this then why do you constantly cherry pick sources which back up what you want to believe and ignore or dismiss all the ones that don’t?

Are you trolling? Deluded? Just debating from what you know is an impossible position as intellectual exercise?

The way to counter bias is to be aware of it and to read a range of sources on a story. Consider the bias of those sources, look at whether they are original sources - often a news source will spin or quote only part of what someone said out of context to make it say what they want, so try and find the full original quote.

You seem to be aware of bias but also a hopeless victim of it. But maybe you’re a bit more knowing than you come across.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #8004 on: January 03, 2021, 07:50:27 PM »
There is audio being released of Trump’s call to Raffensperger. It certainly doesn’t present the image of a strong confident leader and it could potentially contradict criminal statutes.

EDIT:

Here is a snippet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/kpqsri/audio_of_trump_trying_to_pressure_georgia/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

This call was made yesterday. More behind a WaPo paywall.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 07:59:41 PM by Rama Set »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8005 on: January 03, 2021, 08:05:45 PM »
Well that's Treason.

But I'm sure Tom doesn't think this is in any way attempted fraud.  "finding" votes for Trump is perfectly legitimate, I'm sure he and his ilk think.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #8006 on: January 03, 2021, 08:13:38 PM »
Well that's Treason.

Sedition at worst, but no. It’s possibly election interference and/or conspiracy to commit election interference and/or threatening election officials but I can only base that on other lawyers opinions, I’m not sure. But definitely not treason.

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But I'm sure Tom doesn't think this is in any way attempted fraud.  "finding" votes for Trump is perfectly legitimate, I'm sure he and his ilk think.

Of course.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8007 on: January 03, 2021, 08:51:53 PM »
There isn't anything wrong with what Trump said in the audio. He is putting him on notice because he isn't doing enough.

Legislative bodies in Georgia have echoed Trump's concerns of fraud, and have granted a motion to audit absentee ballots a few days ago:





The recent Georgia hearing found that Republican votes were out of alignment on the ballots in a number of counties:



« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 09:03:39 PM by Tom Bishop »

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #8008 on: January 03, 2021, 09:06:14 PM »
There isn't anything wrong with what Trump said in the audio.


Is that your expert legal opinion?  Imagine my surprise that you are doing the exact thing that you call out others on.  Anyway, its just a snippet of a 1 hour audio clip so there really aren't any definitive pronouncements to make since there might be contextual issues.

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He is putting him on notice because he isn't doing enough.


 That is not all he is doing. Trump is also pressuring elected officials to find enough votes for him to win the state. He literally says, "I just want to find 11,780 votes."

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Legislative bodies in Georgia have echoed Trump's concerns of fraud, and have granted an audit of absentee ballots a few days ago:





If you have an actual announcement of this audit, from a government site or press release, that would be awesome.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8009 on: January 03, 2021, 10:07:40 PM »
There isn't anything wrong with what Trump said in the audio.
Imagine my surprise that you say this.
I wonder how you'd react to audio of a Democrat calling someone and asking them to "find" enough votes to help them win in a State they lost.
Well, I don't wonder, because I know how you'd react.
It's so weird that you wrote stuff above which indicates you are self-aware enough to know you have bias and yet continue to display it in every post. Unless, as I suggested, you are writing things you don't believe just for the sake of argument.

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He is putting him on notice because he isn't doing enough.

Enough about what? No credible evidence of fraud has been presented.
They've had 2 months and 60 court cases to do so.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"


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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8011 on: January 03, 2021, 10:47:02 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/audio-trumps-full-jan-2-call-with-ga-secretary-of-state/2021/01/03/3f9426f4-7937-4718-8a8e-9d6052001991_video.html?utm_source=reddit.com

The entire audio here with a few bleeps to redact names.
Ok. So far, he won because
1) Lots of conspiracy theories which have been proven false.
2) Lots of people attend his rallies.

Checks out.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8012 on: January 03, 2021, 10:52:10 PM »
There isn't anything wrong with what Trump said in the audio. He is putting him on notice because he isn't doing enough.

Legislative bodies in Georgia have echoed Trump's concerns of fraud, and have granted a motion to audit absentee ballots a few days ago:





The recent Georgia hearing found that Republican votes were out of alignment on the ballots in a number of counties:


Called it. (Not that it wasn't obvious to everyone)


They did a hand recound and now will audit absentee ballots?  Again?
Yeah, this is just theater to placate people like you.  So they can say "we tried" when MAGA people storm the state capitol and kill "Traitors".
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8013 on: January 03, 2021, 11:00:33 PM »
This Trump audio is so depressing to listen to.
Trump mentions 5000 dead people voting - he's told that the investigation into that showed that only 2 dead people were found to have voted.
His response is "I think there were"
Trump talks about votes being put through machines 3 times. He's told that audits shown that isn't the case.
He just repeats the claim.
He talks about people who moved out of Georgia who voted. He's told that the investigation into that showed that those were people who moved out of Georgia and then back in - and that all happened years ago, they didn't move back in just before the election so they could vote.
His only response is an argument from personal incredulity.
And so on.

Facts just bounce off him.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 11:07:57 PM by AllAroundTheWorld »
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #8014 on: January 04, 2021, 02:25:43 AM »
https://www.11alive.com/mobile/article/news/politics/elections/trump-phone-call-brad-raffersperger-lawsuit/85-a0c1c287-b69f-470e-a8b6-d1cdf9df1b11

Lol. What a whiny little bitch.

EDIT: Story has been taken down. Could be FAKE NEWS!  Trump is still a whiny bitch though.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 01:52:24 PM by Rama Set »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8015 on: January 04, 2021, 05:58:58 AM »
« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 06:04:36 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8016 on: January 04, 2021, 07:22:05 AM »
Looks like your source a liar.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattBraynard/status/1345933290654593024



Ummm...
Raffensperger isn't lying.  He got the 5,000 ballots that Braynard gave him (via fedex?) And determined that only 2 were fraudulant.

You do know that people can have the same name as dead people, right? 
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8017 on: January 04, 2021, 07:42:42 AM »
I believe he's saying that he never made that claim about dead voters.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HunsakerLuke/status/1345935988107980800

Matt Braynard @MattBraynard

"I have never made any accusation anything like this ever. In fact, very early on I specifically said we did not find this.

This clown needs to resign."

LukeHunsaker @HunsakerLuke

Replying to @MattBraynard

"Yeah I was so confused when he brought your name up as I’m pretty certain your data wasn’t even focused on dead voters. Dude needs to big time step down."

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Offline stack

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8018 on: January 04, 2021, 08:09:23 AM »
I believe he's saying that he never made that claim about dead voters.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HunsakerLuke/status/1345935988107980800

Matt Braynard @MattBraynard

"I have never made any accusation anything like this ever. In fact, very early on I specifically said we did not find this.

This clown needs to resign."

LukeHunsaker @HunsakerLuke

Replying to @MattBraynard

"Yeah I was so confused when he brought your name up as I’m pretty certain your data wasn’t even focused on dead voters. Dude needs to big time step down."

Yeah, he didn't, but the other guy who testified the same time, some guy named Geels, did bring up the dead voter thing.
https://www.ajc.com/politics/election/georgia-rips-trumps-voter-fraud-claims-in-court/P6TI4J3CKVDQZMNVG66Q2GBQCE/

In the transcript, Trump brings up the number of "5,000 dead people" first. I'm guessing that Raffensperger confused Geels with Branard. As they both spoke in some meeting and both had some crazy claims that were laughed out of the place.

"In sworn statements filed in court, election experts and state officials offered withering assessments of the analyses by Braynard and Geels."

Braynard got his ass handed to him, maybe that's why his name stuck in Raffensperger's head. Who knows. And does it really matter anyway?

Many of the names listed on your list are erroneous,” she told Braynard. “You allege these voters have committed a felony. There have been no attempts to contact them to verify.”

Braynard backpedaled and thanked Nguyen for pointing out the apparent errors.

“In my affidavit, I don’t believe I specifically accused anybody of committing a crime,” he said. “I said these were indications. Over and over again, ‘potential illegal ballots’ has been my language.”

The word “potential” does not appear in Braynard’s affidavit. “In total, it is my opinion that there were 20,312 individuals who cast ballots illegally in the November 3, 2020, election due to their loss of residency status in the state prior to the election,” he said in the sworn statement.


(See first link)

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8019 on: January 04, 2021, 08:48:24 AM »
I believe he's saying that he never made that claim about dead voters.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HunsakerLuke/status/1345935988107980800

Matt Braynard @MattBraynard

"I have never made any accusation anything like this ever. In fact, very early on I specifically said we did not find this.

This clown needs to resign."

LukeHunsaker @HunsakerLuke

Replying to @MattBraynard

"Yeah I was so confused when he brought your name up as I’m pretty certain your data wasn’t even focused on dead voters. Dude needs to big time step down."

Ah.
Well, honest mistake. 
Also, that doesn't help your argument of voter fraud.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.