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Offline AATW

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #380 on: November 16, 2020, 08:22:53 AM »
Your BDS is getting worse.
We both know that this term is commonly used when someone has been called to have won the election.
Pence and Trump are called "elect" when being introduced to the victory speech.

Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #381 on: November 16, 2020, 08:27:04 AM »
The difference is that Hillary conceded. Read the quote again:

Quote
There is such a thing as a President-Elect. Joe Biden just isn't it.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Letter-to-GSA-re-Transition-final-11.13.20-1.pdf


ABC News Video Description: "Hillary Clinton formally and publicly conceded to Donald Trump this morning after an upset defeat in the presidential election."

« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 08:29:19 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline AATW

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #382 on: November 16, 2020, 08:52:01 AM »
The difference is that Hillary conceded.
Yes. That is the difference. She conceded. Like every defeated candidate since forever, she acted like a grown up.
But while Trump continues to hold his breath like a toddler until things go his way, back in the real world literally everyone else knows Biden won and are calling him President Elect. World leaders have queued up to congratulate him, even China now.
Is Biden and the rest of the world supposed to just not do anything while the Toddler in Chief refuses to accept reality?

EDIT: Parallels with 2000 don't really work. That was a genuinely close contest which needed some sorting out.
This has been a landslide for Biden. He'll get 306 Electoral Votes - which Trump got last time and he called that a landslide, so...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 08:53:37 AM by AllAroundTheWorld »
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline stack

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #383 on: November 16, 2020, 09:04:43 AM »
There is such a thing as a President-Elect. Joe Biden just isn't it.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Letter-to-GSA-re-Transition-final-11.13.20-1.pdf



Joe Biden isn't the president elect simply according to Jody Hice's interpretation and request to the GSA in a letter. A legal precedent was not set in 2000. Hice is making an argument. That's all.

And there are differing opinions on what occurred in 2000:

The Law of Presidential Transitions and the 2000Election
The ability of the incumbent administration to manipulate the Act for political purpose and to thereby undermine the transition efforts of a rival party is certain to tempt future administrations. The Act originally intended that the determination of a President-elect be a relatively simply matter, one to be ascertained solely by examining whether one candidate had earned an electoral college majority. As the sponsor of the Act observed, the 1960 election— one at least as close, contentious, and uncertain as the 2000 election—presented no problems in ascertaining an apparent winner.
Nonetheless, the Administrator of GSA, inspired in large part by political pressures emanating from the White House, refused to recognize an apparent winner until after the Supreme Court ruled in favor of George Bush and after Al Gore conceded the election. In so doing, the Administrator violated the Act’s language and intent and undermined its policies as well, harming the Bush transition and the country as a whole in the process.
Although the Administrator’s actions clearly violated the Act, the Bush-Cheney transition team had little recourse to rectify the violation.

https://digitalcommons.law.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2031&context=lawreview

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #384 on: November 16, 2020, 09:18:07 AM »
Joe Biden isn't the president elect simply according to Jody Hice's interpretation and request to the GSA in a letter. A legal precedent was not set in 2000. Hice is making an argument. That's all.

Not according to the GSA. The government is refusing to recognize Joe Biden as President-Elect, provide intel briefings, or transition resources.

Another quote from that letter:



Please provide the part in the Consecution where the media calls the president.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #385 on: November 16, 2020, 09:23:41 AM »
Why does any of this matter, Tom?
As usual you're just trying to derail this thread into minutiae of semantics and definitions.
Biden is acting like he won the election because pretty much everyone agrees he did. It wasn't close, either.
So, of course, he's gearing up to take office.
The only people who think there's some dispute about this are Trump and some of his more deluded supporters.
And tbh, I think even Trump secretly knows he lost, he's probably just doing this to fund raise from his supporters and create the support for whatever he wants to do next.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #386 on: November 16, 2020, 09:30:35 AM »
Why does any of this matter, Tom?
As usual you're just trying to derail this thread into minutiae of semantics and definitions.
Biden is acting like he won the election because pretty much everyone agrees he did. It wasn't close, either.
So, of course, he's gearing up to take office.
The only people who think there's some dispute about this are Trump and some of his more deluded supporters.
And tbh, I think even Trump secretly knows he lost, he's probably just doing this to fund raise from his supporters and create the support for whatever he wants to do next.

You must be confused. It's a statement from Congress's Committee of Oversight and Reform that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. The letter states that he is not President-Elect. Otherwise they would be telling the GSA to recognize Biden as President-Elect and give him the transition resources and intel briefings which he has requested and which other President-Elects have received.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 09:39:55 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #387 on: November 16, 2020, 09:35:22 AM »
Joe Biden isn't the president elect simply according to Jody Hice's interpretation and request to the GSA in a letter. A legal precedent was not set in 2000. Hice is making an argument. That's all.

Not according to the GSA. The government is refusing to recognize Joe Biden as President-Elect, provide intel briefings, or transition resources.

Another quote from that letter:



Please provide the part in the Consecution where the media calls the president.

It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Here's what GSA is providing the incoming Biden administration even as it declines to recognize his president-elect status
"While it has not officially acknowledged him as the president-elect, the General Services Administration has been providing the incoming Biden administration with office space and other services as the Democratic nominee."
https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2020/11/13/gsa-reveals-mou-with-biden.html

The GSA isn't providing me with offices.

I don't even know what your point is. You don't like that Biden considers himself the President Elect? Good for you. Instead of someone needing to tell Joe he is not the president elect in some people's eyes, maybe someone should tell Donald to concede with his big boy pants on so we can get on with this peaceful transition of power which is far more of a precedent than any of these GSA transition interpretations.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #388 on: November 16, 2020, 09:37:02 AM »
Quote
It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Congress made a statement from its oversight committee that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. So he's not President-Elect.

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Offline stack

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #389 on: November 16, 2020, 09:38:26 AM »
Why does any of this matter, Tom?
As usual you're just trying to derail this thread into minutiae of semantics and definitions.
Biden is acting like he won the election because pretty much everyone agrees he did. It wasn't close, either.
So, of course, he's gearing up to take office.
The only people who think there's some dispute about this are Trump and some of his more deluded supporters.
And tbh, I think even Trump secretly knows he lost, he's probably just doing this to fund raise from his supporters and create the support for whatever he wants to do next.

You must be confused. It's a statement from Congress's Committee of Oversight and Reform that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. The letter states that he is not President-Elect. Otherwise they would be telling the GSA to recognize Biden as President-Elect and give him the transaction resources and intel briefings which he has requested and which other President-Elects have received.



How is an appeal letter from Jody Hise equal to "Congress has made it official"? Does Jody represent all of Congress?

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Offline AATW

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #390 on: November 16, 2020, 09:38:37 AM »
It's a statement from Congress's Committee of Oversight and Reform that Joe Biden is not President-Elect.
OK. So what?
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline stack

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #391 on: November 16, 2020, 09:39:27 AM »
Quote
It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Congress made a statement from its oversight committee that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. So he's not President-Elect.

No, Jody Hice did. Not "Congress".

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #392 on: November 16, 2020, 09:56:49 AM »
Quote
It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Congress made a statement from its oversight committee that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. So he's not President-Elect.

No, Jody Hice did. Not "Congress".

Hice is writing as a ranking member on behalf of the Congressional Committee on Oversight and Reform. They put it up on the front page of their website: https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/


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Offline AATW

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #393 on: November 16, 2020, 09:57:38 AM »
Quote
It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Congress made a statement from its oversight committee that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. So he's not President-Elect.

No, Jody Hice did. Not "Congress".
I honestly don't know what Tom's issue is here. Were the situation reversed we all know Trump would be going round calling himself President Elect, almost certainly in a more bombastic way than Biden is.
And what is Biden supposed to be doing? It's about 2 months till the inauguration, there needs to be a transfer of power.
Is he supposed to just sit around doing nothing until Trump finishes losing all his spurious cases?
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Rama Set

Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #394 on: November 16, 2020, 10:52:51 AM »
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

On the other side is Trump who has been reduced to litigating fucking terrible cases to try and swing a few hundred votes that won’t make a difference.

His inability to accept defeat is firing everyone up to the point that militias are vowing to resist any laws Biden passes because “the election was stolen”.

It wasn’t stolen, Trump just can not accept defeat. Because you have your identity wrapped up in Trump, you can’t either. I suppose once the Electoral College makes their decision on Dec 14th you will have some new complaint.

Only one week until Pennsylvania and Michigan verify their results. Time is running out.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 01:36:21 PM by Rama Set »

Rama Set

Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #395 on: November 16, 2020, 01:37:07 PM »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #396 on: November 16, 2020, 03:50:19 PM »
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.


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Offline Iceman

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #397 on: November 16, 2020, 04:06:02 PM »
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.



No, they report on the results from each state, assume the electors will abide by the law, and project that the incumbent (now lame duck) will accept the will of the people and contribute to the shifting of power. Somehow those last two points arent a given in this crazy world were living in now!

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Offline AATW

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #398 on: November 16, 2020, 04:24:04 PM »
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.

They project the winner in every election. Literally the only difference right now is we have a toddler in the White House who can't accept he lost, and some of his supporters are gullible enough to believe him and keep sending him money.
What actual point are you making here? That Biden shouldn't call himself President Elect? Everyone else is calling him that.
Or do you object to the fact he's acting like he's going to be the next President? Firstly, pretty much everyone can see he is going to be and secondly what's he supposed to do? Wait until Trump's tantrum blows itself out before doing anything? It seems sensible that he would be preparing to govern as that's not an overnight job. If Trump's right and he did really win (spoiler: he isn't and he didn't) then no real harm done. Better that than not leaving enough time for a transition while Trump continues to stamp his feet in defiance of reality.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Rama Set

Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #399 on: November 16, 2020, 04:35:14 PM »
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.


Really great comment.  Unfortunately for you, it has nothing to do with what I said.  You can go look at state by state results that are self-reported and come to the same conclusion.  It just needs a rubber stamp now.  None of Trump's pathetic and delusional lawsuits will change the result.  You best hope is that the Electoral College completely betrays the will of the people and your democracy.