81

Flat Earth Community / Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?

« on: May 13, 2018, 07:04:54 PM »

No.

82

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Political compass

« on: May 11, 2018, 08:57:01 PM »

I founded America so this is the objective truth.

83

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Atheism.

« on: May 11, 2018, 08:50:31 PM »

a·the·ist
ˈāTHēəst/
noun
noun: atheist; plural noun: atheists

    a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
    "he is a committed atheist"
    synonyms:   nonbeliever, disbeliever, unbeliever, skeptic, doubter, doubting Thomas, agnostic; nihilist
    "why is it often assumed that a man of science is probably an atheist?"
    antonyms:   believer

84

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 09, 2018, 10:46:14 PM »

Their mandate does not include determining the shape of the world, but they did so on the way.

Okay, but the political reasons an organization gets funding are never as simple as "so they can fulfill their mandate". There's a whole host of things that go into it that you can lean all about at your local community college's Political Science department. Or go back earlier into the thread for a brief discussion of motivations for a space agency beyond the shape of the earth.

You've already been shown photos of satellites from the ground. That gives you the burden of proof.

Are you just fucking with me now? Because you googled a picture of a satellite dish the burden of proof for explaining how it works is on me? We've established it's well within the realm of existing technologies to receive signals without the use of satellites orbiting a round earth. As for the specific mechanism in the case of this (admittedly random and possibly non-existent) dish, how should I know? Must I now individually explain every wackjob that claims to get internet by space, magic pixies, or dragons? You're making the claims, but failing to provide evidence.

If you are suggesting that the something which my dish is pointing at is not a geostationary satellite then you need to provide some evidence for an alternative technology which would allow something to hover in a fixed location for many years. It must be fixed, if a dish is knocked then you lose signal, the angle has to be precise which demonstrates that the thing it is pointing at is in a fixed location. You have yet to suggest what that could be or provide any evidence for how it would work.

You're the one presenting your premise (space-faring satellites orbiting a round earth) as fact. If you want to make the claim it's space-faring satellites, you need to prove your claim.

85

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 09, 2018, 08:37:59 PM »

First of all, you can three get avatars? It's like I'm talking with three generic people named Terry.

Not needed is not the same as do not exist. I have a dish that receives multi channel tv pointing at an object over the equator. Maybe you can explain how it works with links to the satellite or otherwise operator.

It's hardly fair to expect me to explain how something on your property, which could be anywhere in the world away from me. We've already established there are many methods of technology that could be used. I can't be expected to describe a specific set-up that I literally can not observe.

The presence or absence of those other methods is not, of itself, a disproof of satellites.

I can't prove a negative. You're the one making the claim and I have to provide the evidence?

At no point has anyone claimed that funding for NASA was used to confirm what the shape of the earth was. You came up with that assertion all on your own.

So NASA isn't proof of a round earth? Got it.

86

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 09, 2018, 06:54:52 PM »

Did you actually read my post? Highlighted in bold the part you are still ignoring.

You have let to prove a link between watching TV and the earth being round. You keep just stating your premise (this ridiculous orbiting satellite theory) as a fact. I have demonstrated, over and again, that satellites orbiting the earth are not needed for TV.

If no one mentioned anything about them being paid solely to find out the earth's shape then why mention that?

This whole thread is about why people would claim the earth is round despite the reality of it being flat. You don't think the motivation of space agency's funding is relevant to that conversation?

Here's a video demonstrating the products of Plane Wave Media. In it, you can see a telescope tracking orbital satellites, with the star field moving in the background as the telescope moves across the sky. You can see the output from the telescope, a depiction of the star chart, showing where the telescope is pointing, a view of the telescope as it operates, and a data chart showing attributes of the telescope and its targets.

Or do you think it shows something else? Do you think the manufacturer is tracking them based on something other than global tracks, and they're deceiving us about it? Why would they do that?

I can make a video showing the mechanics of dragons flying. That hardly proves the existence of dragons flying, it just shows off my ability to make a video. Hell, Tolkien made worlds with much more detail than round earth advocates can usually conjure up.

As for how the manufacturers of navigation technology make the stuff, there are numerous ways to transmit a signal both wireless and with wires that do not require orbiting satellites in space.

87

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 09, 2018, 03:20:17 AM »

A+ strawman. Didn't Tontogary also tell you that those cables would be wildly impractical for a ship that regularly moves between continents?

I never claimed that ships at sea were using my personal internet connection.  If you're going to interject at least pay attention.

They are NOT paid for the singular purpose of confirming earth's shape. That is exactly what I said in that quote.

So then where did you get the idea that they were funded solely for that purpose? That was my question which you neglected to answer.

I never claimed it was a singular reason for funding. They are funded for a number of reasons I already addressed, and many I have not had to mention.

88

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 09, 2018, 01:52:45 AM »

So if they are not orbiting a round earth, what do they do? How do they stay in a fixed geostationary place?

I've seen aircraft move at many speeds, as well as hold still. There are numerous methods that could be used, and I'm hardly qualified to tell you the exact mechanics of hypothetical aircraft.

We believe it is because the data is being beamed to a Geostationary satellite above us, which in turn relays that data to a ground station, which in turn puts it into the system of high speed data transmission used for the inter web.

What is your explanation? A few basic details would be good.

You want me to explain how the internet works to you? I can tell you my connection uses a series of cables buried in the ground, and the data usually runs to some major city and then back to me. It seems like running all the data up into space, or the upper atmosphere, would really be unnecessary.

89

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 09, 2018, 12:51:15 AM »

Really? What better technology exists to get television and communications to places that are not reached by mobile masts and hard cables, and the limited range and bandwidth of terrestrial broadcasts?

When a ship is outside of about 30 miles from land there are no cables, and mobile phone technology doesn’t reach that distance, and there are no long trailing fibre optic cables, how do you think we communicate?
We have a satellite dish, gyro stabilised, to compensate for the ships motion, and this points up to a satellite which provides the voice and data connection we need. If this fails we do not have any connection. If the satellite is obscured by a mast, we lose data connection and voice comms. We need to switch or point the dish at a different satellite.
Please explain how this happens if there are no satellites. You must know how it happens to be able to say we are lying. In fact behind able to respond and post on this forum requires a satellite connection to allow me to do so when we are many hundreds of miles from land.

And guess what, there are no mobile masts floating around the ocean!

Some ships have satellite television that works in the same way. If not pointing at a satellite, there is no tv. Point the dish at a satellite, and hey presto, a picture appears. Just to make it clear in case you missed my earlier comment, we have no cables attached to the ship, no Wi-fi signal, and no mobile signal, and no terrestrial tv signal. How does that work?

I don't believe I ever claimed satellites don't exist. I just claimed they are not orbiting the earth as the round earth model describes. I've never doubted the existence of devices outside the human eye that aid in transmitting television signals. Just because you go in detail about some insane scheme you think is happening doesn't make that scheme right. I can claim my graphics card is powered by magic pixies, and type plenty of details about how my computer pixies are on a boat, but that doesn't make my pixie theory right.

90

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 09, 2018, 12:45:03 AM »

Oh, I didn't realize the Russian Space Agency was a sub division of NASA.

I was demonstrating that space agencies can develop technology besides space travel, and did so. I'm sure the Russians probably invent things too, but I'm not as familiar and don't speak Russian so digging for foreign language sources for a concept already demonstrated is silly.

No one has made that statement, where are you getting your information from?

From this guy who said they space agency's aren't funded to confirm the earth's shape.

Also they aren't paid to confirm the earth's shape.

91

Flat Earth Community / Re: What Makes conspiracy Theorists believe.

« on: May 09, 2018, 12:33:39 AM »

Conspiracy theories are silly. Your government would never lie to you, and conspiracy theories have never been proven right.

Anyway I'll just leave these here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_SUNSHINE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakil_Afridi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Popeye
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States#Organized_crime (See Paragraph 5)

92

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 09, 2018, 12:15:55 AM »

Other way around. The fact that the earth is round means that you can watch Jeopardy from a satellite.

So the central argument is "The earth is round because I can watch Jeopardy because the earth is round". Your argument is circular in multiple ways now.

You need evidence other than the last 400 years of science and the whole space industry in multiple countries who all claim to put stuff into space and take photos and film from space?
If you're going to cling to conspiracy theories and flat earth belief which flies in the face of all modern science then it's you who needs to provide some evidence of that.

Why do I need to provide evidence? I'm not the one coming into this thread making insane claims about watching TV proving the shape of the earth. The OP didn't ask for evidence of a flat earth, they asked why certain people and organizations claim a round earth. There's plenty of other threads for your topic, and I'll try and help the mods out by keeping this thread on topic.

There is no doubt about the design, construction and use of satellites for communication, broadcasting and navigation.  Proven.

Great point. Let me try.

There is no doubt about the earth being flat. Proven.

93

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 08, 2018, 08:55:30 PM »

New technology like what? If they aren't going to space then what area could they possibly be innovating in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spinoff_technologies

There's a list of things that aren't going to space that NASA has claimed credit for.

Also they aren't paid to confirm the earth's shape.

Good, so we agree the shape of the earth is irrelevant to why space agency's are funded.

It's not as simple as "phones are better technology because you can move"... The bandwidth involved with mobile phones pales in comparison with getting 100 separate video channels sent to your television to anywhere in the world with perfect reception. Terrestrial television does provide analogue or digital video... but can you pick up Korean TV from the US? No. You would need repeaters. Oh and we have to cross the ocean... so you want to put that through a cable... then transmit again. etc. At some point, the cost of transmitting the same video signal to every person on earth is ridiculously high.

Besides, even your wonderful magic mobile phone: there's still plenty of black spots yes? It costs BILLIONS of dollars to create a network of mobile towers... There are billions of them everywhere. Now enter an elevator... damn signal died. So if an elevator can kill your signal, a mountain can yes? Gee if only there was a way to get signal from the sky... Oh yeah! That's right, there is.

Clearly better technology exists than what you're describing for getting television

Again, a phone is not a TV... But yes, there are a number of ways to get TV that don't require a dish. But dishes do exist! You have seen these dishes yes? Are you disputing that they need to be in a certain position to work? That's basically what you're saying right, but you're neither willing to accept that as true or actually put effort in to seeing that it is true because "why should i when i can use a phone"... i mean, what?? Talk about strawman. That has absolutely no connection, you're talking about two separate points. We're talking about DISHES.... regardless of your personal preference of how to watch television, they do exist! You can see them with your own eyes!

I mean hell i actually agree with you: i'm surprised satellite TV companies can make any money any more when people can just stream live TV anywhere in the world on existing infrastructure... i'm sure they will die out soon enough, but hopefully not soon enough to be able to prove to you flat earthers that they DO exist for a reason, the satellite technician is not in on a globe earth conspiracy, there ARE satellites over head.

Your misunderstandings about television aside, I'm glad you agree that it's very possible to get television in methods besides the hyper-specific theory posited by Round Earthers. Hence, the fact that people get television from a fixed dish is in no way indicative of the shape of the earth.

Really, it shouldn't have taken this long to demonstrate that the facts that you can watch Jeopardy, and that someone guy from your television said it's from satellites, doesn't mean the earth is round. We need evidence, not day-time soap operas.

94

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 08, 2018, 01:56:32 AM »

Really? Do you have a satellite dish stuck to your phone?
Do you know how your phone works. at all?

Your phone does not communicate (as in a 2 way dialogue) with a satellite, the only thing your phone might do with a satellite is to listen and receive GPS signals to work out its position.

Your comma is by a mast, using a different frequency, and a much shorter range.

Unless you have an iridium phone, which uses a different type of satellite, for communicating. Do you know what you have? I would guess not.

My phone can manage two-way communication without a satellite dish while moving. Are you claiming that cell phone technology is that much superior to satellite technology? Well then it's pretty obvious how you're getting your through one of many technologies better than what your describe.

If you bump a satellite dish out of alignment, you don't get TV any more. You're assuming a satellite dish works like a phone does, and because you move your phone around then the satellite dish can be moved around... The whole point, is that it CAN'T be moved around. Are you disputing that? Are you saying you have a satellite dish and have tried moving it and it still works?? Are you saying that satellite TV technicians are ALSO in on the conspiracy?

I'm not the one making these claims about satellite television. Why should I have to go smack a satellite dish because you seem to think that the only way to get television is through unmovable an unmovable dish, when it's clear I can get it out of a much smaller movable phone. Clearly better technology exists than what you're describing for getting television. I'm not the one claiming a vast conspiracy here, you are by trying to loop in cable repairmen in some silly strawman argument.

The other point was: if satellite TV does not use orbiting satellites, and instead uses ground based antennas... Why would they lie about that??? I mean, you said yourself, your phone works from ground based antennas... People are happy knowing that yes? If satellite TV companies COULD use ground based antennas economically and reach the same number of people around the world, then why would they disguise that?? They would just say "hey check out our TV service" and people would use it... The only possible reason I can think of is that they're hoping that people will be amazed by these fake orbiting satellites and go "ooo! That sounds fancy! sign me up!" and that people are so incredibly impressed by that that they're willing to fork out hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a satellite dish plus installation... I mean sure you can skim a bit off the top and make some money that way but holy crap you're opening yourself up to a lot of risk when someone out of your millions of subscribers with a modicum of intelligence easily discovers the ruse...

I just claimed you don't need to be in a fixed position to receive TV. If someone tells you they are selling you satellite TV, how am I supposed to know how you are getting TV? You're closer, go find out yourself. I'm not going to speculate wildly on the technical details of a TV service on the other side of the ocean from me.

It's heartbreaking to find out that Santa isn't real, but it can be accepted knowing that it was your parents the whole time. That's what you need to tell us: if Santa (satellites) isn't real then who fills your stocking (how does satellite TV work) on Christmas?

I don't have TV, I use Netflix like a normal person. How should I know how you get TV? There are many different technologies that can transmit TV, and as we've established, that do not require a fixed, rigid location.

95

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 07, 2018, 09:41:05 PM »

It requires them to be in a fixed position relative to my satellite dish, otherwise I would lose signal when they moved - and if you have satellite TV you'll know how if a dish gets knocked slightly you lose signal.

My phone is constantly moving, (always) allegedly communicating with all types of towers and satellites. And yet, I don't lose signal when my device moves slightly. Clearly your "things have to be in a fixed position" theory doesn't hold up. Is wireless communication really that new of an idea to you, or are you intentionally refusing to acknowledge that the technology exists in a much better shape than you describe?

If they told me it was magic pixies then I wouldn't believe them because I neither believe in magic nor pixies. But satellites have been a think since Sputnik in the 50s.

So if someone told you that the Russians had magic pixies in the 1950's then you'd believe in magic pixies? Got it.

I don't really care how my TV signal gets to me, so long as it does.

Exactly. You could easily be told it's devices orbiting a round earth, or it could be anything and it wouldn't matter to you or anyone else. I'm glad that's gotten through.

Or do you think the satellite TV people are being lied to by...well, in this case it would be the European space agency. Are they pretending to put satellites up there for TV (it was them who launched the Sky satellites) and they're really using these "devices" you have no evidence for?

I'm not going to speculate who is lying to who on a continent I don't live on and in relationships I don't know. That's not how science works. We act on evidence, not speculation.

96

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 07, 2018, 09:14:38 PM »

in all my years discussing the shape of the earth, I've never found any valid evidence for Round Earth Theory. Please present it if you have it.

Oh really? OK cool

• Thousands of photographs, being produced every 10 minutes, of the ENTIRE globe (not just stitched together) https://himawari8.nict.go.jp/ I can literally look out my window and see the weather this satelite photo is showing me. 10 minutes seems pretty quick to gather information from ground observation and draw a fake image
• Countless videos of ships disapearing on the horizon. Yes refraction can mean the calculations don't match the observation (some times stuff is visible that shouldnt be), but they can't explain the opposite (flat earth says all the stuff should be visible, but clearly isnt) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKF7D7XsyTA&t=2s

I have countless pictures and videos of my army of Pokemon. If you believe in a Round Earth for these reasons, I can give you the same level of proof that I am a Pokemon Master.

97

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 07, 2018, 09:12:36 PM »

Do you think putin has the resources to keep pouring money into a program that produces 0 results?

Why are you claiming that the Russian Space Agency produces zero results? National prestige, new technology, economic stimulus. There's loads of reasons to keep giving them money completely irrelevant to the earth's shape.

98

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 07, 2018, 09:12:32 PM »

I'm not defending a video I did not make and can not verify the integrity of. I prefer the Scientific Method to posting Youtube videos. Maybe science curriculum's have changed from when I was in school.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Marble

If you just want to post links and not explain we're not going anywhere fast.

Many flat earthers do not believe that satellites are possible. By definition satellites are orbiting the earth (this remains true if they're in geostationary orbit, in that case they just happen to be going at the right speed to synchronise with the rotation of the earth). I'm not sure how satellites would work were the earth flat, but GPS demonstrably works, Satellite TV demonstrably works. If you believe the earth to be flat you must have some explanation. Just saying "I don't know" is not a particularly satisfactory response.

You have devices that are in the sky, out of sight, relaying signals back and forth. I'm not sure why you think this requires orbiting the earth. If the TV installer told you it was run by magic pixies would you discount the "satellites orbiting earth theory" simply because the pixies theory was told to your first?

99

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 05, 2018, 09:50:53 PM »

If you're going to claim the earth is flat despite all of science and empirical evidence showing that to be wrong and as an extension of that you're going to claim that satellites don't exist then you have to have some explanation for these things. And the FE explanation for these things is, to coin a phrase, rampant speculation with little or no actual evidence.

First, in all my years discussing the shape of the earth, I've never found any valid evidence for Round Earth Theory. Please present it if you have it.

What do I need to explain? I don't remember claiming satellites don't exist, and I'm not interested in explaining how you get TV either because how the fuck would I know that? You're closer to the TV, you look.

100

Flat Earth Theory / Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????

« on: May 05, 2018, 08:57:52 PM »

I get television from the Sky so the earth is round.

They could tell you the TV was powered by magic pixies, you wouldn't know. I'm not sure what your argument is. I have no way of knowing the relationship of the ESA and Sky TV, how would I have anyway of knowing that?

Rampant speculation isn't an argument.