[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Israel has tried that. SEVERAL times. In 1947, British Mandate Palestine, which was Jordan,Israel, West Bank, and Gaza Strip, was supposed to be divided in half, the Jews said yes, the Arabs said no. Then Jordan was created as an Arab state. Then What was left of Palestine, today's Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza was supposed to go in half. The Jews said yes, the Arabs said no. Then the Jews said fuck it, and declared independence in the land they then controlled, and were summarily attacked by 6 Arab armies. They won the war, and ended up with more land than they would have had if the Arabs had said yes the second time. In 2001, Israel proposed to Yasir Arafat that he take 96% of the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip for an independent State of Palestine. The asshole started the Second Intifada instead. Israel evacuated the Gaza Strip in 2005. They promptly were repaid by thousands of rockets being rained on their country. Now they have to control the ports of entry and the airspace of the territory to prevent this.

EVERY SINGLE TIME Israel tries to give the "Palestinians" a damn thing, they get bitten in the ass for it. So now, the Jews aren't giving a damn thing. Let the bastards suffer. That's what they deserve anyway.

[Rama Set]

So Jews have virtually no land. They are then offered 50% of the pie and the Arabs get upset. The same offer is made again, the Arabs are still upset. The Jews, supported with massive foreign aid (for some retarded reason) win a bunch of wars, benevolently preside over the ghettoization of the native Arabs and then offer the Arabs less than 50%. The Arabs are still upset, so the Jews silently allow apocalyptic zionists to encroach on the ghetto and build a wall around the rest. Is that about right?

[Vindictus]

Well, at least you can spell the word ''retarded" correctly. That's a start. Frankly, it has less to do with the text, and more to do with the fact that the Jews took the land from the Canaanites. The Bible's history is more or less accurate in terms of the Israelites entering Canaan and taking the land from the people who lived there before. The people who lived in Canaan, and were the ancestors of modern "Palestinians" (according to "Palestinians" themselves, not me), were savage animals that engaged in human sacrifice, temple prostitution, and other social ills that the Israelites wiped out, thereby doing the world a service. Now, if you take my perspective (and that of most scholars, for that matter), "Palestinians" are a blend of Canaanite and Arab ancestry. The Canaanites deserved what they got, and still would. The Arabs are invaders in a land that is not theis, so they have to leave. So long, goodbye, auf wiedershen, etc. Have a good life, but don't have it in Greater Israel, thank you very much.

The Jews didn't take the land at all. It's a much more messy history than that, as many different groups of people eventually coagulated into a Jewish community back then (including Canaanites themselves). Besides, who gives a fuck what happened thousands of years ago? The area has changed hands numerous times since then.

[Ghost of V]

Sounds like the Jews are just as bad as the Arabs in this situation.

[Vindictus]

Jews and Arabs are both humans? Well, colour me surprised!

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

So Jews have virtually no land. They are then offered 50% of the pie and the Arabs get upset. The same offer is made again, the Arabs are still upset. The Jews, supported with massive foreign aid (for some retarded reason) win a bunch of wars, benevolently preside over the ghettoization of the native Arabs and then offer the Arabs less than 50%. The Arabs are still upset, so the Jews silently allow apocalyptic zionists to encroach on the ghetto and build a wall around the rest. Is that about right?

Actually, the Jews got NO foreign aid except from other Jews until AFTER the War for Independence. Israel then began receiving aid from the United States which has been steady since. I believe Germany and Britain also help. But I don't think they get much from elsewhere. And given the fact that Arabs don't belong in Greater Israel anyway, the fact that Israel was willing to share is pretty cool to me. I have no sympathy for th bastards. But within the Green Line, 22% the population IS Arab, and they are happy. They vote, serve in the Knesset, serve (voluntarily; they are NOT subject to the draft as Jews are) in the IDF, they serve in on the Supreme Court, and have all the other rights and duties of citizens. And they are happy as such. Ask the avg Arab citizen of Israel if he would rather live elsewhere in the ME. He will think you are high. So don't sit there and lecture me about the big bad Jews. Show me a country in the Middle East that treats its Jews as well as Israel treats its Arab citizens. "Palestinians" are not citizens, but occupied persons. They get what they have been dishing out, and they have to FUCKING LIKE IT! I have no sympathy for them.

[Ghost of V]

What would you say to the accusation that Judaism has caused more problems than it has solved? Arguably it has lowered the quality of life across the entire planet by a significant margin due to wars, in-fighting, and petty rules.

[Lord Dave]

So Jews have virtually no land. They are then offered 50% of the pie and the Arabs get upset. The same offer is made again, the Arabs are still upset. The Jews, supported with massive foreign aid (for some retarded reason) win a bunch of wars, benevolently preside over the ghettoization of the native Arabs and then offer the Arabs less than 50%. The Arabs are still upset, so the Jews silently allow apocalyptic zionists to encroach on the ghetto and build a wall around the rest. Is that about right?

Actually, the Jews got NO foreign aid except from other Jews until AFTER the War for Independence. Israel then began receiving aid from the United States which has been steady since. I believe Germany and Britain also help. But I don't think they get much from elsewhere. And given the fact that Arabs don't belong in Greater Israel anyway, the fact that Israel was willing to share is pretty cool to me. I have no sympathy for th bastards. But within the Green Line, 22% the population IS Arab, and they are happy. They vote, serve in the Knesset, serve (voluntarily; they are NOT subject to the draft as Jews are) in the IDF, they serve in on the Supreme Court, and have all the other rights and duties of citizens. And they are happy as such. Ask the avg Arab citizen of Israel if he would rather live elsewhere in the ME. He will think you are high. So don't sit there and lecture me about the big bad Jews. Show me a country in the Middle East that treats its Jews as well as Israel treats its Arab citizens. "Palestinians" are not citizens, but occupied persons. They get what they have been dishing out, and they have to FUCKING LIKE IT! I have no sympathy for them.

By Arabs you mean non-Muslims right?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Actually, no. The vast majority of Arabs in Israel are indeed Muslim. They are simply among the civilised of the batch.

What would you say to the accusation that Judaism has caused more problems than it has solved? Arguably it has lowered the quality of life across the entire planet by a significant margin due to wars, in-fighting, and petty rules.

I would say that it is rather difficult to say that .02% of the population has caused too many problems for the world. In fact, given that 22% of all Nobel Prizes belong to Jews, I would say that we have had a very powerful influence for good on the world. And given the fact that most of the world gets its basic codes of ethics from Mosaic legislation (the Ten Commandments and related codes of law) (including even the Muslims), I would further say that we have been a pivotal force for ethical and moral values. Even the UN, as useless as it is, at its very best, has tried to live according to the dictates of the Jewish Scripture. Look at  what is printed on the outside of the building. Its a quote from Isaiah. "Nation shall not take up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." I would say your remark simply demonstrates gross ignorance at best, or deliberate malice at worst.

[Lord Dave]

Actually, no. The vast majority of Arabs in Israel are indeed Muslim. They are simply among the civilised of the batch.

Woah, hold on.  You said and have been saying that all Muslims are bad.  Now you're contradicting that?  WTF?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I'm not overly fond of them. But I've always said that if Arab citizens of Israel in the Green Line are willing to take an oath of citizenship and obedience to the Israeli State, then I'm inclined to let them stay there. There are some good Muslims. The trouble is, the ones that are usually don't have the cajones to fight the ones who are assholes. But, if you can find me those who do, then I am happy to revise my opinions. I never said my opinions were immutable.

[Rama Set]

So Jews have virtually no land. They are then offered 50% of the pie and the Arabs get upset. The same offer is made again, the Arabs are still upset. The Jews, supported with massive foreign aid (for some retarded reason) win a bunch of wars, benevolently preside over the ghettoization of the native Arabs and then offer the Arabs less than 50%. The Arabs are still upset, so the Jews silently allow apocalyptic zionists to encroach on the ghetto and build a wall around the rest. Is that about right?

Actually, the Jews got NO foreign aid except from other Jews until AFTER the War for Independence. Israel then began receiving aid from the United States which has been steady since. I believe Germany and Britain also help. But I don't think they get much from elsewhere. And given the fact that Arabs don't belong in Greater Israel anyway, the fact that Israel was willing to share is pretty cool to me. I have no sympathy for th bastards. But within the Green Line, 22% the population IS Arab, and they are happy. They vote, serve in the Knesset, serve (voluntarily; they are NOT subject to the draft as Jews are) in the IDF, they serve in on the Supreme Court, and have all the other rights and duties of citizens. And they are happy as such. Ask the avg Arab citizen of Israel if he would rather live elsewhere in the ME. He will think you are high. So don't sit there and lecture me about the big bad Jews. Show me a country in the Middle East that treats its Jews as well as Israel treats its Arab citizens. "Palestinians" are not citizens, but occupied persons. They get what they have been dishing out, and they have to FUCKING LIKE IT! I have no sympathy for them.

I wasn't complaining about the Jews, just trying to get the facts straight.  You know the assertion that the Arabs "don't belong in Greater Israel" is a huge part of the problem.  There you go waving your holy book like it should have any effect on international discourse.  It is fine that you believe internally some truly horrific and bizarre shit, and it is fine that muslims, chirstians and hindus do the same, but it has no place in the affairs of nations, as it can only serve to divide, enflame and enrage people against one another.  Especially religions, like Judaism, that so clearly define an in-group and an out-group. 

If my little tongue-in-cheek precis of the last 60 years of Israeli history did not illuminate the extremely obvious and logical reasons why Arabs are pissed off with Israel, then I doubt that you will ever desire peace and good will.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

QUOTE: "I wasn't complaining about the Jews, just trying to get the facts straight.  You know the assertion that the Arabs "don't belong in Greater Israel" is a huge part of the problem.  There you go waving your holy book like it should have any effect on international discourse.  It is fine that you believe internally some truly horrific and bizarre shit, and it is fine that muslims, chirstians and hindus do the same, but it has no place in the affairs of nations, as it can only serve to divide, enflame and enrage people against one another.  Especially religions, like Judaism, that so clearly define an in-group and an out-group. 

If my little tongue-in-cheek precis of the last 60 years of Israeli history did not illuminate the extremely obvious and logical reasons why Arabs are pissed off with Israel, then I doubt that you will ever desire peace and good will."

Your "little tongue-in-cheek precis of the last 60 years of Israeli history" did not illuminate anything other than your own ignorance. Jews have had a continuous presence in Greater Israel for 4500 years. The Bible is simply a record that proves this. Even if you don't believe in God, the Bible is accurate on the subject of the idea that Jews became masters of Canaan under Joshua.

Archaeology (as Netanyahu pointed out at the UN the other day) and history demonstrate that Israel is the homeland of the Jew, that was stolen from him by others. Now it belongs to us again, by rights. Forget about God, if you wish. The fact remains that the land is ours, and the Arabs can go screw themselves. There are 22 countries they can live in if they wish, and only ONE, TINY Jewish state. So, as far as I am concerned, the Arabs can take their complaints and $0.75 American, and go a buy a cup of f-----g coffee. That is all their opinion is worth. And peace can only be had with Arabs when you force them into submission and obedience, straight up. That is what we need to do.

[spoon]

Jewish dietary restrictions are literally retarted. Why can you not mix dairy and meat?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Ok, aside from y'all's inability to spell the word "retarded", let me break it down for you. In the Torah, There is a commandment that states, "you shall not boil a kid (the young of a goat) in its mother's milk."

Now, here is where a principle can be demonstrated. The Torah gives certain commandments. But the Rabbis who EXPLAINED the Torah wanted to "build a fence around the Torah". The idea was that if you didn't break the laws surrounding the laws, you would never get close enough to breaking the laws themselves. Now that probably doesn't make much sense. Let me explain.

So, you have the Torah, with its rules that allow or forbid certain things. You don't want to break those rules. Then, around that, you have a set of rules that exist such that, if you follow that larger set of rules, you won't come anywhere close to breaking Torah rules.

The rule you asked about is one of those. Its not in the Torah. Its one of those that the Rabbis legislated as a rule that builds a fence around the Torah. If you can't even mix milk and meat on your plate, you certainly aren't going to be able to boil a kid in the milk of its mother!

Now, before you ask the question, DO I mix milk and meat? Yes, I do. I follow strictly biblical commandments, unless I see extraordinarily good reasons to follow Rabbinically ordained ones. Obviously, if I am at Shul, or an Orthodox Jew's home, then I will follow the more strict practices. But in my personal life, I tend to disregard Rabbinical laws unless I see the value in them peronally, and there are many that I do. But there are many that I don't, and this is one of them.

[Ghost of V]

that's just retarted

[Thork]

I thought we'd had a holocaust and Adolfplanet had wiped all the jews from this forum?

[xasop]

I also happen to be an atheist because I don't believe in God, which happens to be the only necessary factor in atheism.

Incorrect. That is the only necessary factor in nontheism, which includes both agnosticism and atheism.

Agnostics don't believe in God, but they also don't believe in the absence of God. Atheists subscribe to the belief that God does not exist, in addition to not holding the belief that God exists.

[Rushy]

Ok, aside from y'all's inability to spell the word "retarded", let me break it down for you. In the Torah, There is a commandment that states, "you shall not boil a kid (the young of a goat) in its mother's milk."

Now, here is where a principle can be demonstrated. The Torah gives certain commandments. But the Rabbis who EXPLAINED the Torah wanted to "build a fence around the Torah". The idea was that if you didn't break the laws surrounding the laws, you would never get close enough to breaking the laws themselves. Now that probably doesn't make much sense. Let me explain.

So, you have the Torah, with its rules that allow or forbid certain things. You don't want to break those rules. Then, around that, you have a set of rules that exist such that, if you follow that larger set of rules, you won't come anywhere close to breaking Torah rules.

The rule you asked about is one of those. Its not in the Torah. Its one of those that the Rabbis legislated as a rule that builds a fence around the Torah. If you can't even mix milk and meat on your plate, you certainly aren't going to be able to boil a kid in the milk of its mother!

Now, before you ask the question, DO I mix milk and meat? Yes, I do. I follow strictly biblical commandments, unless I see extraordinarily good reasons to follow Rabbinically ordained ones. Obviously, if I am at Shul, or an Orthodox Jew's home, then I will follow the more strict practices. But in my personal life, I tend to disregard Rabbinical laws unless I see the value in them peronally, and there are many that I do. But there are many that I don't, and this is one of them.

All things considered, due to commercialization of farms, the probability of you eating beef while simultaneously drinking milk from its mother is ridiculously high.

[markjo]

Jewish dietary restrictions are literally retarted. Why can you not mix dairy and meat?

From what I heard, it was essentially an issue of cross contamination.  Wooden bowls, utensils and such were common back in the day and could be very difficult to clean as thoroughly as you might like.  Bits of dairy products could get caught in the tiny cracks of the wood and contaminate the meat or vice versa.