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Offline spoon

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #580 on: September 18, 2014, 03:13:55 AM »
I believe the first 11 chapters of Genesis to be indecipherable. I do think there was a Flood, if for no other reason then that most major cultures in the world have a Flood story. As for the Creation, I'm not sure what I think about that. The talking Serpent and all that. I certainly do think that God can permit a serpent to talk if that is what he wishes to do. And in the Garden, perhaps ALL the animals talked. I don't know. Unfortunately, the Book of Genesis doesn't give us a lot of information. However, I can say that with the Sun and the Moon not having been created until the Fourth Day, you have to take at least the first three days as not necessarily being 24 hours in duration. They could have been whole eons of time for all I know.

I'm talking more about the sons of god taking human mistresses and the resulting demigod offspring (chapter 6), the Nephilim (chapter 6), the whole deal where Noah got drunk and got raped/seen(?) by Ham, resulting in Noah cursing Canaan and his descendants (chapter 9), and God's apparent ignorance, limited power etc. seen throughout Genesis. I am reading a translation said to be most true to the original Hebrew, and it reads just like any other creation myth; flawed gods, fantastic creatures, unanswered questions.

You can't just discredit the first 11 chapters of Genesis either. It is referenced constantly throughout the rest of the old testament.
inb4 Blanko spoons a literally pizza

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #581 on: September 18, 2014, 06:24:48 AM »
Ah. Thank you for clarifying. I don't know what translation you're using, but the Hebrew does NOT imply that Ham raped Noah, but that he saw him & shamed him. Re: the 'sons of god', the most recent Jewish translation goes w/ 'divine beings', the meaning being unclear. They may be referring to Djinn, which have free will, rather than Angels, which do not. But certainly Djinn could produce Nephilim w/ human girls. I see no problem w/ this. As for God being limited, I'm not so sure. That may have simply been his way of sparing us from things beyond our comprehension, or better yet, the other way round. He knew we could take it then, so he gifted us w/ his Presence in ways he would never do now, as now, we'd never get it!

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Offline Tau

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #582 on: September 18, 2014, 01:11:44 PM »
What's your opinion on Lot and his daughters? Is there a Jewish interpretation of that passage that isn't completely fucked up?
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

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Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #583 on: September 18, 2014, 01:51:57 PM »
The story of Lot (note that in Hebrew this name is pronounced with a long "o" sound rather than a short one) and his daughters is found in Genesis 19:30-38. Obviously, as you said, it seems pretty fucked up. The most flattering explanation that I have heard given of it is that, after the destruction of the Cities on the Plain (of which there were five; the Bible describes the destruction of two of them, namely Sodom and Gomorrah, but two more were also eliminated, Zoar alone being spared), Lot's daughters believed that entire human race had been wiped out.

If you read the text closely, it says, starting with verse 31: "And the first-born said unto the younger: 'Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth.'"[/u]emphasis mine. The point that was made when we talked about it was that Lot's daughters believed that all human life EVERYWHERE had been wiped off the face of the earth. They believed that they and their father were it, and that it was up to them to repopulate the planet. So THAT is why they committed incest with their father, not because they particularly wanted to. I have read further about what caused the destruction of the Cities on the Plain, and some have theorised that it might have been a nuclear explosion. It certainly is possible. God has certainly been known to be behind some pretty crazy shit back in the day, and if you believe that God allowed Oppenheimer to create the thing that wiped out two Japanese cities, well, why couldn't he have sent angels to do the same thing  back then? 

But, to answer your question, yes, it is nasty that the girls did the wham, bam thank you Ma'am with their Dad. I can't think of a single Jew today who wouldn't agree with me. There are probably all kinds of explanations for it, and I don't have my books out to look up those explanations, as they are still packed from moving (I hope that changes in the next few days, but with a sick wife, I don't want to go banging about). But we had a discussion about this in Shul awhile back, and this was what we discussed, was the idea that the girls thought that they and their Dad were the only three people left on Earth. And who wouldn't after a nuclear explosion destroys five whole cities. I suppose, if you believe its your responsibility to recreate the race, you might consider doing it with Dad after all. I don't know. Sounds a bit odd to me, too. Does that help?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 04:33:18 PM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

Thork

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #584 on: September 18, 2014, 03:30:41 PM »
I have read further about what caused the destruction of the Cities on the Plain, and some have theorised that it might have been a nuclear explosion. It certainly is possible. God has certainly been known to be behind some pretty crazy shit back in the day, and if you believe that God allowed Oppenheimer to create the thing that wiped out two Japanese cities, well, why couldn't he have sent angels to do the same thing  back then? 
That is probably he most retarted thing you have come out with. Nuclear explosion? Why would angels build a nuclear bomb? First, they have divine power and blow away a city with a fart and a naked flame. Second, if they have to observe physics, why would they pick a 20th century dirty weapon? Why not a 50th century one that is more precise and has no fall out?

It is disputed that the cities ever existed at all, but if they did and I had to opt for desrucion, I'd pick volcano or earthquake. Probably volcano as fire and brimstone is mentioned and Lot's wife is turned to stone (covered in ash/pumice)

My opinion is that Lot took his daughters and then blamed them. From that perspective the story starts to make a whole lot more sense.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #585 on: September 18, 2014, 03:38:53 PM »
THORK, first, I strongly recommend that you make use of the spell-check device on this system. "Retarted" is not a word. Nor did I say that Angels built a nuclear bomb. I said they caused a nuclear explosion. That's quite different, although the damage done is the same. And the only people that dispute whether the Cities on the Plain ever existed or not are "modern day liberal scholars" whose "scholarship" is entirely shoddy, and not worth the paper it is printed on IMHO.

And your opinion has not been asked for. Frankly, I could give a rat's ass what your opinion is. TAUSAMI asked for a Jewish response to the biblical story, and I gave him one. I could give a flying fuck about your interpretation.

Thork

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #586 on: September 18, 2014, 04:19:38 PM »
THORK, first, I strongly recommend that you make use of the spell-check device on this system. "Retarted" is not a word.
One day, when you lrn2internet, you will read this back and feel silly.

Nor did I say that Angels built a nuclear bomb. I said they caused a nuclear explosion.
That is one hell of an interpretation. I mean you are literally reading one thing, and coming to the conclusion of another. This is how sneaky Jews have used religion for war for thousands of years. It does not say anything about nuclear explosions in the Bible or any other religious text. Stop being a retart.

IMHO.
Which at this stage isn't worth very much.

And your opinion has not been asked for. Frankly, I could give a rat's ass what your opinion is. TAUSAMI asked for a Jewish response to the biblical story, and I gave him one. I could give a flying fuck about your interpretation.
This isn't your forum and I can give an opinion on anything I so choose. Its likely to be backed with a little more education than yours.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #587 on: September 18, 2014, 04:26:07 PM »
Someone who can't even spell "retard" correctly is not likely to have an advanced degree. I do. Notice also, fucktard, I did not say whether I thought it was a nuclear explosion. I said some scholars have interpreted it as such. Remember, you are a fucktard. You can give your opinion, but be advised that nobody cares. One, you are not a Jew, so you know nothing about the Jewish response, which is the purpose of this thread. Two, you are stupid enough to believe the Earth is flat. That automatically indicates that you have no advanced education, or, if you do, that you are what we here in Iowa call an educated idiot.

So, I call bullshit on you claiming any kind of an education. I think you are full of it. You do know how to  make up a good story, though. Keep at it, old boy. I'm sure you can fool at least a few people.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 05:11:42 PM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

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Offline markjo

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #588 on: September 18, 2014, 05:09:46 PM »
Someone who can't even spell "retard" correctly is not likely to have an advanced degree. I do.
Apparently they didn't teach you about memes when you earned your advanced degree.  I'd ask for a refund.
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Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #589 on: September 18, 2014, 05:12:55 PM »
I'd understand if he only misspelled it once. But he spells it incorrectly every time he uses the word. And I do know what a meme is in the Dawkins sense of the word. And its kind of a stupid idea, really.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 05:19:30 PM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

Rama Set

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #590 on: September 18, 2014, 05:18:48 PM »
Someone who can't even spell "retard" correctly is not likely to have an advanced degree. I do. Notice also, fucktard, I did not say whether I thought it was a nuclear explosion. I said some scholars have interpreted it as such. Remember, you are a fucktard. You can give your opinion, but be advised that nobody cares. One, you are not a Jew, so you know nothing about the Jewish response, which is the purpose of this thread. Two, you are stupid enough to believe the Earth is flat. That automatically indicates that you have no advanced education, or, if you do, that you are what we here in Iowa call an educated idiot.

So, I call bullshit on you claiming any kind of an education. I think you are full of it. You do know how to  make up a good story, though. Keep at it, old boy. I'm sure you can fool at least a few people.

You think angel's caused a nuclear explosion and you are condescending about education levels.  Sounds legit.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #591 on: September 18, 2014, 05:21:03 PM »
I didn't say angels did anything. I am saying that the Four Cities on the Plain may have been destroyed by means of a nuclear explosion. How that may have occurred is not my province to explain. I am only telling you what some scholars have suggested.

Thork

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #592 on: September 18, 2014, 05:28:24 PM »
I am saying that the Four Cities on the Plain may have been destroyed by means of a nuclear explosion.
There were 5 cities. Sodom and Gomorrah were allied with the cities of Admah, Zeboim and Bela. Also angels don't use nukes, Fucktart.

Rama Set

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #593 on: September 18, 2014, 05:37:46 PM »
I didn't say angels did anything. I am saying that the Four Cities on the Plain may have been destroyed by means of a nuclear explosion. How that may have occurred is not my province to explain. I am only telling you what some scholars have suggested.

Now who is retarted:

Nor did I say that Angels built a nuclear bomb. I said [angels] caused a nuclear explosion.

You will note that quote clearly state that angels caused a nuclear explosion.


Rama Set

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #594 on: September 18, 2014, 05:38:16 PM »
I'd understand if he only misspelled it once. But he spells it incorrectly every time he uses the word. And I do know what a meme is in the Dawkins sense of the word. And its kind of a stupid idea, really.

So you don't know what an internet meme is.  Got it.

Thork

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #595 on: September 18, 2014, 05:49:03 PM »
Forget it. He has logged off to count his money.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #596 on: September 18, 2014, 05:58:24 PM »
There were five cities. Only four were destroyed. Thork, at least read the book first. With your limited intelligence, I realise that may be difficult for you. I know you are barely literate, given that you can't spell the word "retard", but come on now.

Thork

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #597 on: September 18, 2014, 06:02:09 PM »
There were five cities. Only four were destroyed.
So how are the two daughters able to claim that there were no men left on earth? There is another city full of men, left intact.

Maybe all 5 were destroyed, and you are wrong?
Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah#Deuterocanonical_references
Wisdom 10:6 refers to Five Cities, including Sodom, or Pentapolis: "Wisdom rescued a righteous man when the ungodly were perishing; he escaped the fire that descended on the Five Cities."
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 06:05:05 PM by Thork »

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #598 on: September 18, 2014, 06:05:52 PM »
That is actually a good question. According to the talk I've followed, and the reading I've done, the girls thought that Zoar was going to be next on the list for God's wrath. The idea was that Lot got out of the city (really, a town; it was smaller than the other four) because he was afraid to stay there. And the girls, once they had left the town, found NO men or, for that matter, humans at all.  Mind you, I am not defending what they did. I am merely explaining their rationale. By no means do I mean to express approval.

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Offline Tau

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #599 on: September 18, 2014, 06:11:53 PM »
I'd understand if he only misspelled it once. But he spells it incorrectly every time he uses the word. And I do know what a meme is in the Dawkins sense of the word. And its kind of a stupid idea, really.


If you seriously aren't understanding this, I recommend doing a forum search for the world 'retarted'. And maybe a google search for the word 'meme'.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

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