Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2016, 10:37:50 AM »
Gravitation exists on the Earth.  You throw a ball up, it comes back down.  Obviously that is a form of gravitation.  I feel like I've only recently mentioned this to you, but you should look up the universal accelerator in the wiki.
You (along with I believe every FEer) have not yet answered my question.
Quote
In any case gravitation between masses on the earth has been verified numerous times (measured).
I have asked many times, just what did Cavendish and the numerous others that performed similar experiments actually measure?

I had hoped not to repeat all this again, but I guess I have to!

So many dismiss gravitation, but just what did Cavendish and the numerous others that performed similar experiments actually measure?

Some have accused Cavendish of knowing the answer beforehand and quessing the Universal Gravitational Constant "G". But, he never set out to measure "G", but to "weigh the earth" - find its density.
Newton before him, had no way of knowing this density so he assumed it would be about the same as the surface rocks - around 2,800 to 3,000 kg/m3.
This was all the information Cavendish had to start with. The result of about 5,500 kg/m3 surprised everybody,
but his results have been shown to be within about 1%. Not that bad for such a difficult experiment!
Of course once the mass of the earth was known "G" could easily be found, so he effectively measured the Universal Gravitational Constant "G".
Now before you dismiss Cavendish[1] (as so many Flat Earthers try to), just remember the value of "G" determined from the Cavendish experiment was within 1% of the currently accepted value.  You don't get that close by accident! His result was verified in 1873 and there have been many modern version done to improve the accuracy. 

There have been numerous versions of the Cavendish experiment performed since then.
His result was verified in 1873 and there have been many modern version done to improve the accuracy. 
Most of the measurements were done using variations of the equipment used by Cavendish, though in at least one the equipment was evacuated to minimise interference.
The "atom interferometry" one uses "the minuscule gravitational tug between rubidium atoms and a 516-kilogram array of tungsten cylinders. The uncertainty in the latest measurement is 150 parts per million, or 0.015%" from the same source.

None of this pretends that gravitation is fully understood, but it appears to be a real phenomenon that causes an attractive force between two masses. (Pity we don't know how to reverse it yet!)

This table summarises the modern work:


When one person does an experiment (like cold fusion or even detecting gravity waves) it might be looked on as interesting, but will not be taken too seriously until it can be shown to be repeatable. So the results of Cavendish's experiment could easily have been dismissed, had they not been verified numerous times.

[1]  Some might argue that Miles Mathis has "debunked" Cavendish, but on reading his paper, I would not give much credence to it.  Mind you Miles Mathis seems to have had little to say on all the modern work, with better equipment and the means to avoid some of the sources of possible error.  In any case many of the "errors" Miles Mathis alludes to are simply constant masses in the vicinity, as no-one has questioned the additive property of gravity.
Another paper by Miles Mathis proves π = 4, and is not "dimensionless".  Interesting fellow, Miles Mathis!

Well, I apologize, after seeing that the rest of your post was based on a faulty proposition I decided to skip it, as your posts sometimes give me a headache (this time for a change at least the meandering was somewhat on topic), but as it happens, I don't know what's being observed in the Cavendish Experiment.  Obviously something is causing something to react somehow, but I do think that Miles Mathis makes some excellent points that can't be dismissed out-of-hand, however eccentric he might seem (Sir Isaac Newton was an alchemist yet he's revered as something of a God to you people, after all) and we must be cognizant of the fact that there's no reason to assume that the theory behind the Cavendish Experiment isn't flawed, or misunderstood.

This is why an open-minded approach to FE research is so important.  Rather than deny something that has been observed many, many times by people of all walks of life, we should be pondering this fascinating experiment, and striving to understand it.  To me, that's what the modern Flat Earth Society is all about, or at least should be.

Whatever the case may be, the Cavendish Experiment does not prove that the Earth is not flat.

So you're basically saying "I don't get what the Cavendish Experiment is, therefor it doesn't prove the Earth is not flat"

Cavendish was trying to measure the density of Earth, which since the experiment was a success, it prove that the gravity you claimed to believe, is indeed a result of attraction of Earth's mass, which would mean if the Earth is flat gravity would pull it back to a sphere. For the Earth to be flat, the gravity we experience on the ground must not result from Earth's mass, which would require the Cavendish Experiment and all of it's modern attempts to be a hoax.
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2016, 03:39:12 PM »
Well, the TFES certainly seems to regard Rowbotham as a prophet if not a "god", but no-one regards Newton or any other others as "gods".
Copernicus, Brahe, Kepler,  Galileo, Newton, et al did not invent anything or make up anything. They simply discovered what was there. If they didn't someone else would have!

You know who did make up something? Einstein (or he plagiarized it, some say)

Relativity is the patchwork that covered up the holes in Newton, Kepler, and other natural philosopher's theories and "thought experiments."

Something not adding up? Dark Matter. Light bending? Black Holes. Want to really fuck with their heads? Let's create the space time continuum.

Fantasy bullshit made up to distract you from the flaws inherent in our concepts of the Universe. I'm beginning to think Einstein was contracted to create a concept to complex to question, in order to continue the status quo.

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Offline BlueMoon

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2016, 05:21:32 PM »
Well, the TFES certainly seems to regard Rowbotham as a prophet if not a "god", but no-one regards Newton or any other others as "gods".
Copernicus, Brahe, Kepler,  Galileo, Newton, et al did not invent anything or make up anything. They simply discovered what was there. If they didn't someone else would have!

You know who did make up something? Einstein (or he plagiarized it, some say)

Relativity is the patchwork that covered up the holes in Newton, Kepler, and other natural philosopher's theories and "thought experiments."

Something not adding up? Dark Matter. Light bending? Black Holes. Want to really fuck with their heads? Let's create the space time continuum.

Fantasy bullshit made up to distract you from the flaws inherent in our concepts of the Universe. I'm beginning to think Einstein was contracted to create a concept to complex to question, in order to continue the status quo.
It sure beats your aether.  That's just fantasy bullshit to explain away the evidence that the earth is round.  At least our explanations are mathematically defined and tested, and maintain a level of internal consistency. 
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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2016, 05:36:27 PM »
Well, the TFES certainly seems to regard Rowbotham as a prophet if not a "god", but no-one regards Newton or any other others as "gods".
Copernicus, Brahe, Kepler,  Galileo, Newton, et al did not invent anything or make up anything. They simply discovered what was there. If they didn't someone else would have!

You know who did make up something? Einstein (or he plagiarized it, some say)

Relativity is the patchwork that covered up the holes in Newton, Kepler, and other natural philosopher's theories and "thought experiments."

Something not adding up? Dark Matter. Light bending? Black Holes. Want to really fuck with their heads? Let's create the space time continuum.

Fantasy bullshit made up to distract you from the flaws inherent in our concepts of the Universe. I'm beginning to think Einstein was contracted to create a concept to complex to question, in order to continue the status quo.
It sure beats your aether.  That's just fantasy bullshit to explain away the evidence that the earth is round.  At least our explanations are mathematically defined and tested, and maintain a level of internal consistency.

You've never once seen me say anything at all about aether.

And if I was to say anything about it, I would mention to you how aether theory had nothing to do with the shape of the Earth. Tesla was a huge proponent of the Aether, do you think he thought the Earth was flat?

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Offline BlueMoon

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2016, 06:29:26 PM »
Well, the TFES certainly seems to regard Rowbotham as a prophet if not a "god", but no-one regards Newton or any other others as "gods".
Copernicus, Brahe, Kepler,  Galileo, Newton, et al did not invent anything or make up anything. They simply discovered what was there. If they didn't someone else would have!

You know who did make up something? Einstein (or he plagiarized it, some say)

Relativity is the patchwork that covered up the holes in Newton, Kepler, and other natural philosopher's theories and "thought experiments."

Something not adding up? Dark Matter. Light bending? Black Holes. Want to really fuck with their heads? Let's create the space time continuum.

Fantasy bullshit made up to distract you from the flaws inherent in our concepts of the Universe. I'm beginning to think Einstein was contracted to create a concept to complex to question, in order to continue the status quo.
It sure beats your aether.  That's just fantasy bullshit to explain away the evidence that the earth is round.  At least our explanations are mathematically defined and tested, and maintain a level of internal consistency.

You've never once seen me say anything at all about aether.

And if I was to say anything about it, I would mention to you how aether theory had nothing to do with the shape of the Earth. Tesla was a huge proponent of the Aether, do you think he thought the Earth was flat?
Aether has been disproven since Tesla's time. 
Gravity, relativity and quantum mechanics have been proven. 
Now, I remember that you avoid mentioning aether or claiming that the earth is flat.  But by disavowing relativity, you're saying that there is a better explanation, and on these forums it's always aether. 
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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2016, 07:27:26 PM »
Well, the TFES certainly seems to regard Rowbotham as a prophet if not a "god", but no-one regards Newton or any other others as "gods".
Copernicus, Brahe, Kepler,  Galileo, Newton, et al did not invent anything or make up anything. They simply discovered what was there. If they didn't someone else would have!

You know who did make up something? Einstein (or he plagiarized it, some say)

Relativity is the patchwork that covered up the holes in Newton, Kepler, and other natural philosopher's theories and "thought experiments."

Something not adding up? Dark Matter. Light bending? Black Holes. Want to really fuck with their heads? Let's create the space time continuum.

Fantasy bullshit made up to distract you from the flaws inherent in our concepts of the Universe. I'm beginning to think Einstein was contracted to create a concept to complex to question, in order to continue the status quo.
It sure beats your aether.  That's just fantasy bullshit to explain away the evidence that the earth is round.  At least our explanations are mathematically defined and tested, and maintain a level of internal consistency.

You've never once seen me say anything at all about aether.

And if I was to say anything about it, I would mention to you how aether theory had nothing to do with the shape of the Earth. Tesla was a huge proponent of the Aether, do you think he thought the Earth was flat?
Aether has been disproven since Tesla's time. 
Gravity, relativity and quantum mechanics have been proven. 
Now, I remember that you avoid mentioning aether or claiming that the earth is flat.  But by disavowing relativity, you're saying that there is a better explanation, and on these forums it's always aether.
Incredibly flawed logic, to assume that just because I'm on this forum you can fill in my unstated opinions on a subject with that of a select few others. But since you're the expert, please in your own words explain general relativity, and in plain english also explain what you imagine aether to be.

Also, please explain how something can be disproved? Things can just fail to be proven, but to disprove something, that's entirely more difficult to do. ie: existence of God. It's not proven, but it's also impossible to disprove.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2016, 10:37:08 PM »
Well, the TFES certainly seems to regard Rowbotham as a prophet if not a "god", but no-one regards Newton or any other others as "gods".
Copernicus, Brahe, Kepler,  Galileo, Newton, et al did not invent anything or make up anything. They simply discovered what was there. If they didn't someone else would have!

You know who did make up something? Einstein (or he plagiarized it, some say)

Relativity is the patchwork that covered up the holes in Newton, Kepler, and other natural philosopher's theories and "thought experiments."

Something not adding up? Dark Matter. Light bending? Black Holes. Want to really fuck with their heads? Let's create the space time continuum.

Fantasy bullshit made up to distract you from the flaws inherent in our concepts of the Universe. I'm beginning to think Einstein was contracted to create a concept to complex to question, in order to continue the status quo.
I have never yet seen anything that indicates the you have the slightest knowledge of the Flat Earth you purport to support.
You talk about "Light bending?" On your flat earth model (you do have one?)
  • at the time the sun is setting it is still 3,000 miles above the earth (about 20° if you want an angle!), yet we see the sun appearing to set behind the horizon! - BENDY LIGHT?
  • An equinox is coming up (Mar 20). On that date the sun will be able to be seen to rise due east (90°) and set due west - everywhere![1] Yet on the accepted (?) flat earth, with the sun circling over the equator the sun would rise even north of NW (at about 36°) - BENDY LIGHT?

You worry about "dark matter", but the Heliocentric Globe does NOT rely on dark matter one little bit! Yes it is hypothesized to explain galaxies "holding together"!

On the other hand the accepted Flat Earth depends on "Dark Energy" to power its Universal Acceleration that provides its "simulated gravity". This hypothesis provides no explanation for measured variations in "g".

While the Globe uses well proven gravitation[2] to provide genuine gravity that varies across the earth as explained by rotation and differing polar and equatorial radii and variation with altitude!

The "the flaws inherent in our concepts of the Universe" are simply flaws in your understanding of it. Don't blame Newton, Einstein or anyone else for your failings - go learn a bit about the Globe and more particularly about what alternatives there are! I do not see ANY that explain observations.
Yes, I know you won't consider any of this, but maybe someone else will see the fallacy of the Flat Earth model.

[1] Except right at the poles - they BOTH get 24 hour sunlight on the equinoxes - explain THAT with you Flat Earth sun!
[2] See: "Henry Cavendish proved Newton's Gravitation" http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66174.0[/list]

Offline Unsure101

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2016, 11:34:07 AM »
Gravitation exists on the Earth.  You throw a ball up, it comes back down.  Obviously that is a form of gravitation.  I feel like I've only recently mentioned this to you, but you should look up the universal accelerator in the wiki.
Sorry to join the party late, but if the FE is accelerating upwards, why haven't we crashed into the sun and Moon yet? They're only a few miles up yes?
You throw a ball up, it falls back to the earth. You launch a weather balloon, it falls back to earth, yet the sun and Moon don't. What magic holds them up, but everything else falls?

Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2016, 12:42:27 PM »
    You know who did make up something? Einstein (or he plagiarized it, some say)

    Relativity is the patchwork that covered up the holes in Newton, Kepler, and other natural philosopher's theories and "thought experiments."

    Something not adding up? Dark Matter. Light bending? Black Holes. Want to really fuck with their heads? Let's create the space time continuum.

    Fantasy bullshit made up to distract you from the flaws inherent in our concepts of the Universe. I'm beginning to think Einstein was contracted to create a concept to complex to question, in order to continue the status quo.
    I have never yet seen anything that indicates the you have the slightest knowledge of the Flat Earth you purport to support.
    You talk about "Light bending?" On your flat earth model (you do have one?)
    • at the time the sun is setting it is still 3,000 miles above the earth (about 20° if you want an angle!), yet we see the sun appearing to set behind the horizon! - BENDY LIGHT?
    • An equinox is coming up (Mar 20). On that date the sun will be able to be seen to rise due east (90°) and set due west - everywhere![1] Yet on the accepted (?) flat earth, with the sun circling over the equator the sun would rise even north of NW (at about 36°) - BENDY LIGHT?

    You worry about "dark matter", but the Heliocentric Globe does NOT rely on dark matter one little bit! Yes it is hypothesized to explain galaxies "holding together"!

    On the other hand the accepted Flat Earth depends on "Dark Energy" to power its Universal Acceleration that provides its "simulated gravity". This hypothesis provides no explanation for measured variations in "g".

    While the Globe uses well proven gravitation[2] to provide genuine gravity that varies across the earth as explained by rotation and differing polar and equatorial radii and variation with altitude!

    The "the flaws inherent in our concepts of the Universe" are simply flaws in your understanding of it. Don't blame Newton, Einstein or anyone else for your failings - go learn a bit about the Globe and more particularly about what alternatives there are! I do not see ANY that explain observations.
    Yes, I know you won't consider any of this, but maybe someone else will see the fallacy of the Flat Earth model.

    [1] Except right at the poles - they BOTH get 24 hour sunlight on the equinoxes - explain THAT with you Flat Earth sun!
    [2] See: "Henry Cavendish proved Newton's Gravitation" http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66174.0[/list]

    First of all, I don't purport to support anything. You only want me to be a flat earther so you can get some satisfaction from relentlessly debating me. As far as I'm concerned you're no better than the flat earthers in regards to ignoring valid points and evidence that might change your world view.

    Also, if the universe isn't held together, how can it exist? The heliocentric system relies on a bunch of massive objects whirling around each other, seems it should be utter chaos... Yet it's not. And if you want to accept relativity then you better accept gravity somehow bending time and light and space itself. If you want to accept gravity you better accept it is flawed to the point that relativity had to introduce time dilation and whacky shit like that to hold it together.

    What do you really know about our universe? It's a tricky question because I want to know what you first hand, truly know about the universe. Not what Carl Sagan told you, or what you were taught in school. What has anyone? It bothers me to no end to see a bunch of people so god damn sure of themselves when they've only been told these things about our existence, and then they accept it to their core, it's part of their identity now. The difference between a true flat earth believer and a round earth believer is the length of time  they've been entirely too sure about something the scale of which the human mind can hardly fathom.

    Offline Unsure101

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    Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
    « Reply #49 on: March 16, 2016, 12:58:10 PM »
    It bothers me to no end to see a bunch of people so god damn sure of themselves when they've only been told these things about our existence, and then they accept it to their core, it's part of their identity now.
    I've been told that the Grand Canyon exists for as long as I can remember, but I've never seen it. How can I believe that it actually exists as I've never seen it. All pictures of it must be dismissed as fakes and until I see it with my own eyes, it cannot exist. All who say it exists are lying or part of a conspiracy to make me think that it does exist for some reason.
    Does this sound a little mad to you?

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    Offline juner

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    Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
    « Reply #50 on: March 16, 2016, 02:08:40 PM »
    I've been told that the Grand Canyon exists for as long as I can remember, but I've never seen it. How can I believe that it actually exists as I've never seen it. All pictures of it must be dismissed as fakes and until I see it with my own eyes, it cannot exist. All who say it exists are lying or part of a conspiracy to make me think that it does exist for some reason.
    Does this sound a little mad to you?

    This is simply a false equivalence.

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    Offline Rounder

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    Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
    « Reply #51 on: March 17, 2016, 12:55:43 PM »
    This is simply a false equivalence.

    Seems like an apt comparison to me.  The conversations would be very similar to some exchanges here:

    The Grand Canyon is real.
         I've seen ditches, I've seen piles of dirt and rocks; dirt and rocks don't pile up into shapes like that.
    It isn't a pile of dirt and rocks, it is a channel carved out of solid rock by the Colorado River.
         What?!  Haha, water isn't tougher than ROCK!  Leave a rock in your dishwasher, it won't get any 'canyons' carved in it!
    Sure, because it takes millions of years.
         AhHA!  Now I know you've been duped by the GC Conspiracy because the earth isn't that old!
    Look at all the photos, online and in printed books and magazines, going way back.
         Photos can be faked in many ways, modern and historic.
    But it's a national park!
         Oh, the NPS.  You trust the government, do you?
    Lots and lots of people visit it, every year!
         Well, nobody I know has ever been there.
    Well, what about the fact that it was surveyed in 1857 by Edward Fitzgerald Beale?
         Since Lewis and Clark didn't see it between 1804-1806, it's probably made up.
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    Offline Woody

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    Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
    « Reply #52 on: March 17, 2016, 01:53:29 PM »
    I've been told that the Grand Canyon exists for as long as I can remember, but I've never seen it. How can I believe that it actually exists as I've never seen it. All pictures of it must be dismissed as fakes and until I see it with my own eyes, it cannot exist. All who say it exists are lying or part of a conspiracy to make me think that it does exist for some reason.
    Does this sound a little mad to you?

    This is simply a false equivalence.

    Told the Earth is round.                       Told Grand Canyon exist
    Told space travel exist.

    Pictures, videos, of Earth                     Dismiss videos and pictures of Grand Canyon
    and rockets taking off fake

    Can not/never seen curvature               Never seen the Grand Canyon

    NASA and likely science in                    Any organization/group saying the Grand Canyon
    general part of a conspiracy.                  exist part of a conspiracy.

    Conspiracy exist for some ill                  Conspiracy exist for some ill defined reason
    defined reason


    Seems similar to me. 

    Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
    « Reply #53 on: March 17, 2016, 03:06:05 PM »
    You guys are leaving out the fact that most Americans could possibly, you know, go to the Grand Canyon and see it for themselves.

    It seems to be a highly selective process to go to space, if you know what I mean.

    « Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 06:16:23 PM by TheTruthIsOnHere »

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    Offline BlueMoon

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    Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
    « Reply #54 on: March 17, 2016, 05:30:56 PM »
    You guys are leaving out the fact that most Americans could possibly, you know, go to the Grand Canyon and see it for themselves.

    It seems to be a highly selective process to go to space, if you know what I mean.
    Bad link, but I know what you're getting at.  No, astronauts have nothing to do with freemasons.  It's a highly selective process in that if you don't have years of training, you'll only get in the way.  Fortunately, the astronauts keep us posted on what's going on, so we don't need to feel left out.  And eventually there will be space tourism, though it will probably be prohibitively expensive.  Still, you wouldn't want to spend many thousands of dollars only to get a letter that says "just play along." 
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    Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
    « Reply #55 on: March 17, 2016, 06:15:56 PM »
    You guys are leaving out the fact that most Americans could possibly, you know, go to the Grand Canyon and see it for themselves.

    It seems to be a highly selective process to go to space, if you know what I mean.
    Bad link, but I know what you're getting at.  No, astronauts have nothing to do with freemasons.  It's a highly selective process in that if you don't have years of training, you'll only get in the way.  Fortunately, the astronauts keep us posted on what's going on, so we don't need to feel left out.  And eventually there will be space tourism, though it will probably be prohibitively expensive.  Still, you wouldn't want to spend many thousands of dollars only to get a letter that says "just play along."

    The verdict is still out on space tourism. Virgin Galactic looks as though it may never be successful. SpaceX has basically been acquired by NASA, in the form of lucrative contracts... tourism isn't at the top of their list, in the slightest.

    Are you debating the fact that many, if not all astronauts have links to freemasonry?

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    Offline BlueMoon

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    Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
    « Reply #56 on: March 17, 2016, 06:31:12 PM »
    You guys are leaving out the fact that most Americans could possibly, you know, go to the Grand Canyon and see it for themselves.

    It seems to be a highly selective process to go to space, if you know what I mean.
    Bad link, but I know what you're getting at.  No, astronauts have nothing to do with freemasons.  It's a highly selective process in that if you don't have years of training, you'll only get in the way.  Fortunately, the astronauts keep us posted on what's going on, so we don't need to feel left out.  And eventually there will be space tourism, though it will probably be prohibitively expensive.  Still, you wouldn't want to spend many thousands of dollars only to get a letter that says "just play along."

    The verdict is still out on space tourism. Virgin Galactic looks as though it may never be successful. SpaceX has basically been acquired by NASA, in the form of lucrative contracts... tourism isn't at the top of their list, in the slightest.

    Are you debating the fact that many, if not all astronauts have links to freemasonry?
    Yes, I am.  What makes you so certain that they're linked to freemasonry?  Why would they even need to be? 


    Also, what about Blue Origin?  They'll be doing suborbital tourism, and they just tested their New Shepard vertical-landing rocket. 
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    Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
    « Reply #57 on: March 17, 2016, 06:50:25 PM »
    You guys are leaving out the fact that most Americans could possibly, you know, go to the Grand Canyon and see it for themselves.

    It seems to be a highly selective process to go to space, if you know what I mean.
    Bad link, but I know what you're getting at.  No, astronauts have nothing to do with freemasons.  It's a highly selective process in that if you don't have years of training, you'll only get in the way.  Fortunately, the astronauts keep us posted on what's going on, so we don't need to feel left out.  And eventually there will be space tourism, though it will probably be prohibitively expensive.  Still, you wouldn't want to spend many thousands of dollars only to get a letter that says "just play along."

    The verdict is still out on space tourism. Virgin Galactic looks as though it may never be successful. SpaceX has basically been acquired by NASA, in the form of lucrative contracts... tourism isn't at the top of their list, in the slightest.

    Are you debating the fact that many, if not all astronauts have links to freemasonry?
    Yes, I am.  What makes you so certain that they're linked to freemasonry?  Why would they even need to be? 


    Also, what about Blue Origin?  They'll be doing suborbital tourism, and they just tested their New Shepard vertical-landing rocket.

    http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/spacemason/

    A short list of free masons that have been in space, as provided by an actual lodge's website.

    I could give you more links, and videos showing the rituals and hand shakes and rings and hand signals, but you would probably immediately disregard because of their "conspiratorial" overtones.


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    Offline BlueMoon

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    Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
    « Reply #58 on: March 17, 2016, 09:15:09 PM »
    You guys are leaving out the fact that most Americans could possibly, you know, go to the Grand Canyon and see it for themselves.

    It seems to be a highly selective process to go to space, if you know what I mean.
    Bad link, but I know what you're getting at.  No, astronauts have nothing to do with freemasons.  It's a highly selective process in that if you don't have years of training, you'll only get in the way.  Fortunately, the astronauts keep us posted on what's going on, so we don't need to feel left out.  And eventually there will be space tourism, though it will probably be prohibitively expensive.  Still, you wouldn't want to spend many thousands of dollars only to get a letter that says "just play along."

    The verdict is still out on space tourism. Virgin Galactic looks as though it may never be successful. SpaceX has basically been acquired by NASA, in the form of lucrative contracts... tourism isn't at the top of their list, in the slightest.

    Are you debating the fact that many, if not all astronauts have links to freemasonry?
    Yes, I am.  What makes you so certain that they're linked to freemasonry?  Why would they even need to be? 


    Also, what about Blue Origin?  They'll be doing suborbital tourism, and they just tested their New Shepard vertical-landing rocket.

    http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/spacemason/

    A short list of free masons that have been in space, as provided by an actual lodge's website.

    I could give you more links, and videos showing the rituals and hand shakes and rings and hand signals, but you would probably immediately disregard because of their "conspiratorial" overtones.
    Look, if they were in such a secret organization, do you really think they would risk using secret rituals and rings and handshakes and the like? 


    Furthermore, to be an astronaut you have to be skilled at math, physics, science, and engineering.  The astronauts during the early days of the space program had to be test pilots, and the Apollo astronauts had to be skilled at geology.  Also, they had to be exceptional under pressure and have a good health record.  Do you really think that what few qualified applicants there were would also be freemasons? 


    Maybe they were part of their own little fraternity or honor society since joining NASA.  Who knows.  But I'll take their word far and away over a list on any freemason website. 
    But I do know that a great many of them were Eagle Scouts, and many others reached another rank in scouting.  Must be the Boy Scouts of America controlling the government  :P
    Aerospace Engineering Student
    NASA Enthusiast
    Round Earth Advocate
    More qualified to speak for NASA than you are to speak against them

    Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
    « Reply #59 on: March 17, 2016, 11:32:17 PM »
    You can keep your eyes closed all you want man the proof is there in black and white. Its not a secret society, because the fact it's not secret. Look at the back of a dollar bill. It's a hide in plain sight type of thing.

    And don't forget, I wholesale question the validity of the appolo missions, so the first "astronauts" really didn't need many skills to speak of to be recorded jumping around a movie set.