Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« on: September 13, 2017, 09:11:44 PM »
Hello all, I have a few genuine questions relating to our environment and it's relation to the flat earth theory. Does climate change have an impact to the flat earth? I suppose global warming isn't considered true for those who believe in the flat earth, right? From what I gather, the outer edges of the flat earth are where the ice caps/glaciers lie, what lies beyond? Is there a reason why the ice is melting faster?

I've been curious about the flat earth, but I am an environmentalist first and would like to hear others opinions. Thank you kindly. 

Re: Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 11:34:00 PM »
If the earth is an infinite plane, than presumably the sky would be receiving gasses from other parts of the plane, continually renewing itself...unless the outer edges of this part of the plane are so cold, air and even spacetime itself freezes.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:36:57 PM by Antithecystem »

Re: Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2017, 12:21:18 AM »
So the farther one goes out on the plane, the colder it gets? Would that mean even with our polar caps melting, more will come to replace them? And how would the gasses be distributed across an infinite plane, I didn't know it was an infinite plane.

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Re: Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2017, 03:53:17 AM »
So the farther one goes out on the plane, the colder it gets? Would that mean even with our polar caps melting, more will come to replace them? And how would the gasses be distributed across an infinite plane, I didn't know it was an infinite plane.

This has been claimed in a couple of places.

This sect of the Flat Earthers do say that the Earth disk is VERY much larger than the habitable part...possibly infinite...other factions do not believe this.

If the disk extends outwards a decent distance beyond the Ice Wall - and we KNOW that the sun doesn't cross over the ice wall - it must soon become perpetually dark - and (consequently) very cold.

The temperature at some distance from the habitable zone would drop to the point where the air would at least liquify - if not freeze.

If that happened then the air pressure at that distance would drop to zero.

This would cause winds of ENORMOUS force to blow outwards from the habitable area in an effort to replace the air that's frozen...and within not much time, we'd all suffocate and die...or perhaps be blown southwards at enormous speeds.

Honestly, none of this FE theory really stands up to close examination.
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2017, 04:31:19 AM »
This has been claimed in a couple of places.

This sect of the Flat Earthers do say that the Earth disk is VERY much larger than the habitable part...possibly infinite...other factions do not believe this.

If the disk extends outwards a decent distance beyond the Ice Wall - and we KNOW that the sun doesn't cross over the ice wall - it must soon become perpetually dark - and (consequently) very cold.

The temperature at some distance from the habitable zone would drop to the point where the air would at least liquify - if not freeze.

If that happened then the air pressure at that distance would drop to zero.

This would cause winds of ENORMOUS force to blow outwards from the habitable area in an effort to replace the air that's frozen...and within not much time, we'd all suffocate and die...or perhaps be blown southwards at enormous speeds.

Honestly, none of this FE theory really stands up to close examination.

You are simply just making up physics in your own head here. Barometric pressure is related to heat. No heat, no pressure. The Arctic is low pressure despite being surrounded by warm higher pressures, and does not equalize. That considered, what makes you think that the outer areas would equalize?

Re: Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2017, 04:50:15 AM »
This has been claimed in a couple of places.

This sect of the Flat Earthers do say that the Earth disk is VERY much larger than the habitable part...possibly infinite...other factions do not believe this.

If the disk extends outwards a decent distance beyond the Ice Wall - and we KNOW that the sun doesn't cross over the ice wall - it must soon become perpetually dark - and (consequently) very cold.

The temperature at some distance from the habitable zone would drop to the point where the air would at least liquify - if not freeze.

If that happened then the air pressure at that distance would drop to zero.

This would cause winds of ENORMOUS force to blow outwards from the habitable area in an effort to replace the air that's frozen...and within not much time, we'd all suffocate and die...or perhaps be blown southwards at enormous speeds.

Honestly, none of this FE theory really stands up to close examination.

You are simply just making up physics in your own head here. Barometric pressure is related to heat. No heat, no pressure. The Arctic is low pressure despite being surrounded by warm higher pressures, and does not equalize. That considered, what makes you think that the outer areas would equalize?
Actually, it would appear the Antarctic is quite a high pressure area. Which doesn't play well with the idea of beyond it being increasingly lower pressure areas. I'll admit though, I don't know what that big red spot on the Antarctic is offhand. Anyone else?

Re: Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2017, 07:41:30 AM »
This has been claimed in a couple of places.

This sect of the Flat Earthers do say that the Earth disk is VERY much larger than the habitable part...possibly infinite...other factions do not believe this.

If the disk extends outwards a decent distance beyond the Ice Wall - and we KNOW that the sun doesn't cross over the ice wall - it must soon become perpetually dark - and (consequently) very cold.

The temperature at some distance from the habitable zone would drop to the point where the air would at least liquify - if not freeze.

If that happened then the air pressure at that distance would drop to zero.

This would cause winds of ENORMOUS force to blow outwards from the habitable area in an effort to replace the air that's frozen...and within not much time, we'd all suffocate and die...or perhaps be blown southwards at enormous speeds.

Honestly, none of this FE theory really stands up to close examination.

You are simply just making up physics in your own head here. Barometric pressure is related to heat. No heat, no pressure. The Arctic is low pressure despite being surrounded by warm higher pressures, and does not equalize. That considered, what makes you think that the outer areas would equalize?

Tom, how are you so sure, share your findings and experiment that they wont equalize.

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Re: Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2017, 12:17:31 PM »
This has been claimed in a couple of places.

This sect of the Flat Earthers do say that the Earth disk is VERY much larger than the habitable part...possibly infinite...other factions do not believe this.

If the disk extends outwards a decent distance beyond the Ice Wall - and we KNOW that the sun doesn't cross over the ice wall - it must soon become perpetually dark - and (consequently) very cold.

The temperature at some distance from the habitable zone would drop to the point where the air would at least liquify - if not freeze.

If that happened then the air pressure at that distance would drop to zero.

This would cause winds of ENORMOUS force to blow outwards from the habitable area in an effort to replace the air that's frozen...and within not much time, we'd all suffocate and die...or perhaps be blown southwards at enormous speeds.

Honestly, none of this FE theory really stands up to close examination.

You are simply just making up physics in your own head here. Barometric pressure is related to heat. No heat, no pressure. The Arctic is low pressure despite being surrounded by warm higher pressures, and does not equalize. That considered, what makes you think that the outer areas would equalize?

Source????

Talk about making up your own physics. You are 100% wrong. As temps rise, the air becomes less dense and the pressure FALLS. Cold air is more dense and causes the pressure to rise. You are probably thinking of pressure in a container, which does go up with temp because the air expands and can't rise. (more technically, the molecules have more energy and are pushing harder against the container)

Here is but one source - http://sciencing.com/temperature-affect-barometric-pressure-5013070.html
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2017, 12:50:35 PM »
This has been claimed in a couple of places.

This sect of the Flat Earthers do say that the Earth disk is VERY much larger than the habitable part...possibly infinite...other factions do not believe this.

If the disk extends outwards a decent distance beyond the Ice Wall - and we KNOW that the sun doesn't cross over the ice wall - it must soon become perpetually dark - and (consequently) very cold.

The temperature at some distance from the habitable zone would drop to the point where the air would at least liquify - if not freeze.

If that happened then the air pressure at that distance would drop to zero.

This would cause winds of ENORMOUS force to blow outwards from the habitable area in an effort to replace the air that's frozen...and within not much time, we'd all suffocate and die...or perhaps be blown southwards at enormous speeds.

Honestly, none of this FE theory really stands up to close examination.

You are simply just making up physics in your own head here. Barometric pressure is related to heat. No heat, no pressure. The Arctic is low pressure despite being surrounded by warm higher pressures, and does not equalize. That considered, what makes you think that the outer areas would equalize?

Source????

Talk about making up your own physics. You are 100% wrong. As temps rise, the air becomes less dense and the pressure FALLS. Cold air is more dense and causes the pressure to rise. You are probably thinking of pressure in a container, which does go up with temp because the air expands and can't rise. (more technically, the molecules have more energy and are pushing harder against the container)

Here is but one source - http://sciencing.com/temperature-affect-barometric-pressure-5013070.html

High temperature does correlate with increased pressure. You just admitted that it happens that way in a lab. In your link it's talking about a single ground level measuring point where heat rises, not the atmosphere as a whole. The entire atmosphere does not consist of a thermometer at sea level in New York. We are talking about the entire atmosphere here.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 12:52:48 PM »
Actually, it would appear the Antarctic is quite a high pressure area. Which doesn't play well with the idea of beyond it being increasingly lower pressure areas. I'll admit though, I don't know what that big red spot on the Antarctic is offhand. Anyone else?

Again, those are ground level readings. They are not readings of the entire atmosphere.

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Re: Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2017, 12:54:32 PM »
Tom, how are you so sure, share your findings and experiment that they wont equalize.

The fact that the polar areas maintain a different pressure than tropical areas is a proof that the areas would not equalize.

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Re: Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2017, 01:37:18 PM »
This has been claimed in a couple of places.

This sect of the Flat Earthers do say that the Earth disk is VERY much larger than the habitable part...possibly infinite...other factions do not believe this.

If the disk extends outwards a decent distance beyond the Ice Wall - and we KNOW that the sun doesn't cross over the ice wall - it must soon become perpetually dark - and (consequently) very cold.

The temperature at some distance from the habitable zone would drop to the point where the air would at least liquify - if not freeze.

If that happened then the air pressure at that distance would drop to zero.

This would cause winds of ENORMOUS force to blow outwards from the habitable area in an effort to replace the air that's frozen...and within not much time, we'd all suffocate and die...or perhaps be blown southwards at enormous speeds.

Honestly, none of this FE theory really stands up to close examination.

You are simply just making up physics in your own head here. Barometric pressure is related to heat. No heat, no pressure. The Arctic is low pressure despite being surrounded by warm higher pressures, and does not equalize. That considered, what makes you think that the outer areas would equalize?

Source????

Talk about making up your own physics. You are 100% wrong. As temps rise, the air becomes less dense and the pressure FALLS. Cold air is more dense and causes the pressure to rise. You are probably thinking of pressure in a container, which does go up with temp because the air expands and can't rise. (more technically, the molecules have more energy and are pushing harder against the container)

Here is but one source - http://sciencing.com/temperature-affect-barometric-pressure-5013070.html

High temperature does correlate with increased pressure. You just admitted that it happens that way in a lab. In your link it's talking about a single ground level measuring point where heat rises, not the atmosphere as a whole. The entire atmosphere does not consist of a thermometer at sea level in New York. We are talking about the entire atmosphere here.

No Tom, you are again incorrect. I said in a container, which prevents the air from rising. The atmosphere is NOT a container. Air is free to rise, cool, fall, ect... 
I gave you a source showing that barometric pressure is NOT increased by warm air. Please show me your source on barometric pressure being higher in warmer regions. Look at the image below. South pole, very cold, high pressure over a large area. I have given you two sources now, please give me yours.

I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

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Re: Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2017, 02:32:11 PM »
Tom, how are you so sure, share your findings and experiment that they wont equalize.

The fact that the polar areas maintain a different pressure than tropical areas is a proof that the areas would not equalize.

This debate has gone seriously off the rails.

The thing is that these RE pressure maps are showing snapshots of a dynamic system - and the pressure variations are small compared to the overall air pressure at sea level.  In a round earth, with the atmosphere held in place by gravity - the air pressure can rise in some places and fall in others across the globe in response to weather patterns.   No air will ever be "lost" even though there are pressure changes.   The air pressure never equalizes because there is a continual "chaotic" mix of heat from the sun changing through the day and through the seasons, reflected by cloud cover, torn by coriolis forces (oh, sorry - you don't have those do you?) and even tidal forces on the atmosphere due to the moon.

But these changes are TINY compared to what the FE model predicts...not even worth discussing.

Let me again explain the FE problem here:

The problem with the "infinite" or "very large" FE is that at some distance from the ice wall, the air would liquify or maybe even freeze.   Your own Wiki says as much: https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Ice_Wall

    "Temperatures are thought to approach absolute zero the further one explores outwards."

Wow!  At such low temperatures, the air would liquify or even freeze solid.   At that point the atmospheric pressure would drop to zero.  (Did you ever do the experiment in high school where you fill a strong metal container with steam, then close it tight shut - when the steam liquifies and turns back into water, the pressure inside the drops to almost zero and the can is crushed flat!  It's a very cool demonstration.)

So...far, far away from our warm and cosy spot in the middle of the FE - there is a region with ZERO air pressure - a near total vacuum - the vacuum can never be "equalized" because any new atmosphere that enters that region will immediately freeze and fall to the ground as a mixture of "nitrogen snow" and "oxygen snow".

With no gravity or other force to keep the air over the habitable zone - air from the center will rush outwards to "fill the vacuum" (Remember: nature abhors a vacuum)...and as that air flows outwards, it too will cool to near absolute zero and freeze.

So that region of perpetual zero pressure will eventually suck all of the air from the habitable circle and freeze it.  At that point, with no air pressure, the oceans would start to boil - and the steam would also rush outwards and freeze somewhere over the "near absolute zero" zone.

The "habitable" area of the planet would be reduced to rocks and dehydrated dirt - with every plant and animal dead, the result would be something a lot like the surface of the moon.

Clearly I don't think this is true.  But the Wiki seems quite clear on this point - and it would be entirely consistent with a Flat Earth that is infinite in extent, but who's sun only hovers over the habitable parts.

I don't know how the FE'ers will explain this.   But what the Wiki says is impossible.
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

Re: Environmental issues and Flat Earth
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2017, 08:59:40 PM »
So the farther one goes out on the plane, the colder it gets? Would that mean even with our polar caps melting, more will come to replace them? And how would the gasses be distributed across an infinite plane, I didn't know it was an infinite plane.
It's possible it gets colder and darker until you reach absolute 0 heat/light, since you'd be getting further and further away from the only, or main source of heat/light, the sun.
If that's the case, I'm not sure if the melting icecaps would be replenished.
On the other hand, there may be another sun, oceans and lands beyond Antarctica, in which case it'd start to get warmer/lighter again.



The cosmos could keep going like this forever, alternating between rings of cold/dark ice and tundra, and rings of warm/light water and temperate lands, or there could be more variation, we can only speculate.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 09:44:56 PM by Antithecystem »