Quote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 01:09:57 PMSo you don't want to use a flat sundial that represents a flat earth. You want to use a globe shaped sundial representing a globe shaped earth. Can we load the deck in your favour any more do you think?We want to use the sundial that works best. It happens to be a globe. But yes, the deck is also completely in our favor. Sorry! You lose!
So you don't want to use a flat sundial that represents a flat earth. You want to use a globe shaped sundial representing a globe shaped earth. Can we load the deck in your favour any more do you think?
Quote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 01:22:18 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 01:09:57 PMSo you don't want to use a flat sundial that represents a flat earth. You want to use a globe shaped sundial representing a globe shaped earth. Can we load the deck in your favour any more do you think?We want to use the sundial that works best. It happens to be a globe. But yes, the deck is also completely in our favor. Sorry! You lose!Well it turns out flat sundials work too. What we have here is round earther's trying to cheat a win so as they can maintain their normalisation bias. Basically more of the blue pill.
I'm sorry, if you can't see how the flat earth makes the concept of a clock even easier, I'm not going to be able to point that out to you. You even show an animated sun keeping time as it travels around a flat earth's face. The sun even goes the same direction as a clock ... clockwise! North and south hemisphere. On a round earth, people in the southern hemisphere's clocks should go backwards! FET 4 the win.
Flat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?
Quote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:13:43 PMFlat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?I have to apologize, I was mistaken. All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates. Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?
So, I know I'm digging back into this thread a fair bit, but I just had a thought, verified it, and would like to present it quick. Southern hemisphere sundials DO go backwards.https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Sundial_in_Supreme_Court_Gardens%2C_Perth.jpgThis image is large and it feels smarter to link directly to it instead of putting it inline, so that people can see it at full size with no issues. Make sure to zoom in and look at the numbers going in the other direction.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundial#Sundials_in_the_Southern_HemisphereSo the basis of your entire objection is faulty.
Quote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:51:20 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:13:43 PMFlat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?I have to apologize, I was mistaken. All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates. Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread.
Quote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:53:25 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:51:20 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:13:43 PMFlat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?I have to apologize, I was mistaken. All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates. Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread. To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.
Quote from: Curious Squirrel on December 20, 2017, 02:41:54 PMSo, I know I'm digging back into this thread a fair bit, but I just had a thought, verified it, and would like to present it quick. Southern hemisphere sundials DO go backwards.https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Sundial_in_Supreme_Court_Gardens%2C_Perth.jpgThis image is large and it feels smarter to link directly to it instead of putting it inline, so that people can see it at full size with no issues. Make sure to zoom in and look at the numbers going in the other direction.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundial#Sundials_in_the_Southern_HemisphereSo the basis of your entire objection is faulty.I told you that. My point was that the Southern hemisphere doesn't use clocks that go backwards as you'd expect on a round earth for precisely that reason.
Quote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:57:21 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:53:25 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:51:20 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:13:43 PMFlat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?I have to apologize, I was mistaken. All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates. Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread. To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?
Quote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:00:30 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:57:21 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:53:25 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:51:20 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:13:43 PMFlat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?I have to apologize, I was mistaken. All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates. Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread. To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?'The ancients'? We have no evidence of a polar-axis, even-hour sundial prior to nearly the 1400's. That's not exactly 'ancient' by my count.
Quote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:00:30 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:57:21 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:53:25 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:51:20 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:13:43 PMFlat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?I have to apologize, I was mistaken. All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates. Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread. To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?No but they also weren’t traveling all over the world were they? Are you disputing that the gnomon on a sundial must be adjusted for latitude? Are you aware that the eccentricities in the Earth’s orbit cause predictable errors in sundials based on a heliocentric model of the solar system and General Relativity?
Quote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 03:05:48 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:00:30 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:57:21 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:53:25 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:51:20 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:13:43 PMFlat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?I have to apologize, I was mistaken. All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates. Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread. To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?No but they also weren’t traveling all over the world were they? Are you disputing that the gnomon on a sundial must be adjusted for latitude? Are you aware that the eccentricities in the Earth’s orbit cause predictable errors in sundials based on a heliocentric model of the solar system and General Relativity?I already said, flat sundials need to be calibrated, just as globe ones do. What point are you trying to make?
Quote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:09:06 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 03:05:48 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:00:30 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:57:21 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:53:25 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:51:20 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:13:43 PMFlat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?I have to apologize, I was mistaken. All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates. Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread. To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?No but they also weren’t traveling all over the world were they? Are you disputing that the gnomon on a sundial must be adjusted for latitude? Are you aware that the eccentricities in the Earth’s orbit cause predictable errors in sundials based on a heliocentric model of the solar system and General Relativity?I already said, flat sundials need to be calibrated, just as globe ones do. What point are you trying to make?That sundials work based on the Earth being a globe, as I have explicitly stated.
Well it turns out flat sundials work too. What we have here is round earther's trying to cheat a win so as they can maintain their normalisation bias. Basically more of the blue pill.
Quote from: Curious Squirrel on December 20, 2017, 03:02:42 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:00:30 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:57:21 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:53:25 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:51:20 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:13:43 PMFlat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?I have to apologize, I was mistaken. All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates. Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread. To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?'The ancients'? We have no evidence of a polar-axis, even-hour sundial prior to nearly the 1400's. That's not exactly 'ancient' by my count.You are embarressing yourself again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sundials#Ancient_sundials
Quote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 01:35:34 PMWell it turns out flat sundials work too. What we have here is round earther's trying to cheat a win so as they can maintain their normalisation bias. Basically more of the blue pill.I will use a flat "sundial" today at my house and run the JocelynSachs experiment. Will you?
Quote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:05:28 PMQuote from: Curious Squirrel on December 20, 2017, 03:02:42 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:00:30 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:57:21 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:53:25 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:51:20 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:13:43 PMFlat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?I have to apologize, I was mistaken. All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates. Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread. To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?'The ancients'? We have no evidence of a polar-axis, even-hour sundial prior to nearly the 1400's. That's not exactly 'ancient' by my count.You are embarressing yourself again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sundials#Ancient_sundialsYou really are when you don't bother to actually *read* what I said. Bolded the relevant bits in the earlier post and helpfully linked to what I'm talking about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sundials#Modern_dialing
If you had read the thread and not jumped in, you'd have realised we were specifically talking about FLAT sundials. Then you interrupted moving the goal posts again.
The thing about rainbows is every time you get closer to them, they move away from you. Stop with your rainbow reasoning.
Quote from: Curious Squirrel on December 20, 2017, 03:16:21 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:05:28 PMQuote from: Curious Squirrel on December 20, 2017, 03:02:42 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:00:30 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:57:21 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:53:25 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:51:20 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:13:43 PMFlat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?I have to apologize, I was mistaken. All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates. Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread. To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?'The ancients'? We have no evidence of a polar-axis, even-hour sundial prior to nearly the 1400's. That's not exactly 'ancient' by my count.You are embarressing yourself again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sundials#Ancient_sundialsYou really are when you don't bother to actually *read* what I said. Bolded the relevant bits in the earlier post and helpfully linked to what I'm talking about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sundials#Modern_dialing If you had read the thread and not jumped in, you'd have realised we were specifically talking about FLAT sundials. Then you interrupted moving the goal posts again. The thing about rainbows is every time you get closer to them, they move away from you. Stop with your rainbow reasoning.
Quote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:20:18 PMIf you had read the thread and not jumped in, you'd have realised we were specifically talking about FLAT sundials. Then you interrupted moving the goal posts again.Polar axis sundials were brought in specifically to rebut your claims about the hourly 15o movement of the sun.
Quote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:20:18 PMQuote from: Curious Squirrel on December 20, 2017, 03:16:21 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:05:28 PMQuote from: Curious Squirrel on December 20, 2017, 03:02:42 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 03:00:30 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:57:21 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:53:25 PMQuote from: Rama Set on December 20, 2017, 02:51:20 PMQuote from: Baby Thork on December 20, 2017, 02:13:43 PMFlat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?I have to apologize, I was mistaken. All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates. Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread. To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?'The ancients'? We have no evidence of a polar-axis, even-hour sundial prior to nearly the 1400's. That's not exactly 'ancient' by my count.You are embarressing yourself again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sundials#Ancient_sundialsYou really are when you don't bother to actually *read* what I said. Bolded the relevant bits in the earlier post and helpfully linked to what I'm talking about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sundials#Modern_dialing If you had read the thread and not jumped in, you'd have realised we were specifically talking about FLAT sundials. Then you interrupted moving the goal posts again. The thing about rainbows is every time you get closer to them, they move away from you. Stop with your rainbow reasoning.Oh I've read the whole thing. You were discussing there how sundials needed to be adjusted based on location/coordinates. Which is ONLY true of polar axis, even hour sundials. You made a reference to if 'the ancients' were using equations relating to the movement of the sun/earth system. I was pointing out that 'the ancients' didn't use sundials that required such information, and they were in fact not in use until nearly 1400. Not sure how that's 'moving the goalposts' but ok.