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Offline QED

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Gravity: Supplemental
« on: May 02, 2019, 02:41:55 PM »
This seemed a bit off-topic for the gravity thread here, by relevant enough to link the threads by name.

The cavendish experiment is a long-hailed successful demonstration of the gravitational attraction between two massive objects.

Even though the gravitational force is by far the weakest force, careful setups can still produce definitive results.

The first link below is an identical setup to one I have built in the past. The second is a YouTube video demonstrating just how easy basic cavendish setups can be. Enjoy!

https://www.learner.org/courses/physics/video/vid_byunit.html?unit=3&vidNum=1



The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

- Tom Bishop

We try to represent FET in a model-agnostic way

- Pete Svarrior

Re: Gravity: Supplemental
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2019, 06:02:51 PM »
The video should include some light feathers or easily floating stuff, as smoke, in the middle of the setup, so we will be sure there was no wind or air movement being forced into the center pieces.  I can make it even dance rumba back and forth. Oh, I forgot about possible magnets into the balls... silly me, smoke and feathers would not show them, but compasses could be put there to show no magnetic field change.  Silly me again, static electricity can make objects attracts or repeal each other, so a compass, feathers or smoke will not detect it.  Hmm, but what can detect it? EMI sensors.  We can be here 'til tomorrow, at the end will understand a video is just a video, nothing else, there are videos of aliens at Area 51.  I like the video when the right mass touches the ball, kick back and never approaches is again...   I am not saying the video is fake, I am saying it could be made fake with several different methods.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 06:09:49 PM by spherical »

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Offline QED

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Re: Gravity: Supplemental
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2019, 06:18:23 PM »
The video should include some light feathers or easily floating stuff, as smoke, in the middle of the setup, so we will be sure there was no wind or air movement being forced into the center pieces.  I can make it even dance rumba back and forth. Oh, I forgot about possible magnets into the balls... silly me, smoke and feathers would not show them, but compasses could be put there to show no magnetic field change.  Silly me again, static electricity can make objects attracts or repeal each other, so a compass, feathers or smoke will not detect it.  Hmm, but what can detect it? EMI sensors.  We can be here 'til tomorrow, at the end will understand a video is just a video, nothing else, there are videos of aliens at Area 51.  I like the video when the right mass touches the ball, kick back and never approaches is again...   I am not saying the video is fake, I am saying it could be made fake with several different methods.

Well sure. And every single FE video could be made fake. Everything can be fake. I could be a clever bot (I suppose).

But riddle me this: the cavendish experiment is a typical demonstration used in physics classrooms. Physicists are the ones performing the demo. Which means professionals who have been trained better than anyone else to identify possible tricks, hidden variables, or poor methodology.

Are you claiming that every physicist on the planet is faking their cavendish experiments? Because even though a single video could be fake, stating that all demos are fake is quite a large claim.
The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

- Tom Bishop

We try to represent FET in a model-agnostic way

- Pete Svarrior

Re: Gravity: Supplemental
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2019, 07:35:46 PM »
Are you claiming that every physicist on the planet is faking their cavendish experiments? Because even though a single video could be fake, stating that all demos are fake is quite a large claim.

Absolutely not.  There are countless true experiments being done and documented by video all over the planet.  No questions about that.
The problem is that some experiments, can suffer influence of the environment, or even on purpose by the ones that likes to force the results, even when the results could be natural.   Like I said, you can insert other objects in the video to eliminate some doubts.  As an example, in this video he used a simple analog clock to allow the viewers to have the sense of accelerated time during the movement of the masses.   So, based on the data information from the objects used in the video, mass of the balls and the objects suspended, distances, time, etc, one could even calculate the "gravity acceleration" between them.   I don't even eliminate the possibility of the static electricity being dispersed in the air, and attaching to the masses could cause this effect, considering everything is isolated from the ground (plastic cups) or string.  Everything is possible, the only way to really make sure, would be to repeat the experience in vacuum and suspended few foot from the floor, that would be more scientific.

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Re: Gravity: Supplemental
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2019, 08:29:02 PM »
Are you claiming that every physicist on the planet is faking their cavendish experiments? Because even though a single video could be fake, stating that all demos are fake is quite a large claim.

Absolutely not.  There are countless true experiments being done and documented by video all over the planet.  No questions about that.
The problem is that some experiments, can suffer influence of the environment, or even on purpose by the ones that likes to force the results, even when the results could be natural.   Like I said, you can insert other objects in the video to eliminate some doubts.  As an example, in this video he used a simple analog clock to allow the viewers to have the sense of accelerated time during the movement of the masses.   So, based on the data information from the objects used in the video, mass of the balls and the objects suspended, distances, time, etc, one could even calculate the "gravity acceleration" between them.   I don't even eliminate the possibility of the static electricity being dispersed in the air, and attaching to the masses could cause this effect, considering everything is isolated from the ground (plastic cups) or string.  Everything is possible, the only way to really make sure, would be to repeat the experience in vacuum and suspended few foot from the floor, that would be more scientific.

Well I’m glad you see the foolishness of that hypothetical claim.

So then, you acknowledge the reality that physicists all over the world perform this experiment and the results are reproducible, confirm physics theory, and well understood.

Your only real complaint is that there could be factors that impact these results that the physicists are unaware of.

I highly doubt that this is the case. As I said, they are the best trained people in the world to identify “environmental factors.”

Do you think every physicist on earth who does this experiment is unaware of some factor, and that hidden factor exists in every experiment in the exactly the same way to somehow skew every result to imitate precisely what theory would predict?

I find this claim perhaps even more substantial than the conspiracy claim.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 08:31:36 PM by QED »
The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

- Tom Bishop

We try to represent FET in a model-agnostic way

- Pete Svarrior