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Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up
« on: July 11, 2017, 10:21:14 PM »
Very clever way to show the effect of putting the image into three dimensions!
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You know Tom, it would help your case if you posted something that was actually true. If you followed my suggestion and blew the picture up to 400%, and then measured the lights with a ruler, you would have quickly discovered that the the final 7 or so lights are not similar in size. In fact, they decrease consistently as they get further away.
The shrinking is not consistent, and appears to slow significantly when compared to the closest lights.QuoteYou suggestion that the closer lights are somehow angled at the viewer is ridiculous. Why would someone install a series of streetlights at different angles? And why would they angle some of them to effectively blind someone driving down the street?
Is a streetlight directly overhead of you pointing at you with the same angle as a streetlight at the eye level horizon? No, it is not.QuoteAs for the closer lights being physically bigger than their "projection", this is also ridiculous. The first light in the series is almost as big as the woman walking beneath it. Have you ever seen a 4 foot diameter lightbulb on a regular streetlight? The reason all of the lights look bigger than their physical bulbs is lens flare: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_flare Again, in one of the earlier pictures, the headlights of a car appear to be about 5 feet in diameter. That is not due to the car having huge headlights. It is due to lens flare, which in that case is increased by the headlights being angled directly at the lens of the camera.
There is your explanation then, you admitted that the light sizes in your image are tainted by lens flare.
Here is another picture of streetlights receding into the distance:
This picture is even clearer as each successive streetlight is smaller in the image until the smallest ones are about 10% of the size of the largest and closest light. Once again there is clearly a lens effect making all of the lights appear larger than they are, as the first light is about the same size in diameter as the height of the woman in the foreground. There are no streetlights with 5 foot diameter lightbulbs. But in the meantime, the lights get progressively smaller as they recede into the distance, just as the mechanism of perspective suggests will happen. There is clearly no magnification effect happening to the lights in the distance as each light is smaller than the next closer light.
The best way to measure this is to download the picture and then zoom the picture to 400% on your computer screen. At that level of zoom, the differences are obvious to the naked eye, and can also be easily measured with a ruler.
The final 7 or so lights in that sequence look pretty similar in size, despite being as far away from each other than the first four lights.
Lights very near to you are going to look bigger if they are also angled more directly at you, or because their light is physically bigger than its projection. In these discussions we are really looking at very distant lights. We can see that the very distant lights in that scene are not consistently shrinking. The shrinking seems to slow significantly as the distance increases.
Your results are consistent with the Flat Earth model. The apparent magnification of the Sun is nullified by the real change in distance between the observer and the Sun. The very fact that you can't perceive a difference attests to that.Yes - as I explained - the results of my "coin-at-arms-length" experiment are identical for FE and RE. Neither is proved nor disproved.
All I'm saying is that the vociferous debates about "How does the sun get bigger if it's setting" are entirely, 100% incorrect on both sides of the debate here...because the sun doesn't get bigger when it's setting - and you can do the experiment to prove it, yourself, tonight, very easily.
It is however, a very strong optical illusion and nearly everyone believes it's a real effect until they do the experiment for themselves.
Just an aside on sun filters and that "shadow object." Using sun filters, we can take photos of the transits of Mercury, Venus or even the ISS across the sun. We should be able to do the same for the "shadow object".....Unless it becomes magically invisible......
Someone has suggested using a welding helmet to look diectly at the sun.
Re:"Half-sunken ships Restored by simply lòoking at them through a Telescope"+Except when you grab a telescope and actually do it
I think the OP has been answered.There is no way you can do this.
Sounds like a one way trip to the cemetery if you go up in a ballon.
Why not just show us an honest picture of curvature, oh that's right, they don't exist.
And the original point still stands. Accusing the round earth theory of having some aspects that seem remarkably convenient does not explain away the same phenomenon in the flat earth theory. Not to mention that the sun and moon being the same size in the sky does not violate any known principles of the behavior of light, unlike the flat earth theory of magnification which is based on a physical effect that has never been proven to exist.
But it is very telling which remarkably convenient explanations you accept wholeheartedly and which ones you criticize.
Yes, I tend to find it easier to accept an explanation that does not violate any known physical laws and is consistent with all other observations relevant to the explanation than it is to accept an explanation that depends on a completely new and unproven physical property of the atmosphere that has never been observed independent of the context in which it is being claimed.
For example, I downloaded the picture from the Wiki that supposedly is evidence for this effect, and yet when I zoom the picture to 400% of original size, I can easily determine that the distant streetlights appear to be about half of the size in the photo as the closer streetlights. That is what perspective does (make distant objects appear smaller) and it is doing it to the globes of light formed by each streetlight in that picture, which is also attached to this post. So the evidence offered for this magnification effect is in actual fact evidence that perspective works the same for a source of bright light as it does for everything else. There is no magnification effect.
As the wiki describes, the lights in the distance are not consistently shrinking. They should be little points, but they are not. At a certain distance they appear to stop shrinking altogether.
The lights very close to the camera are bigger, certainly, but that could be because the bulb size is bigger than the projection upon the atmosphere. This is described in the Wiki.
The flight was from Taipei, Taiwan to LA: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mom-gives-birth-19-hour-flight-from-taiwan_us_561ea2d2e4b050c6c4a3e94d
If you connect those two locations on a globe, you will quickly discover that like most flights, the shortest route is what is called a great circle route. On a flat map, that kind of route appears curved, but on a sphere or a globe, that curved path is the shortest route. Here is a website that allows you to calculate the shortest route on a spherical earth:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=tpe-lax
And guess what, the great circle route from Taipei (not Bali) to Los Angleles goes fairly close to Anchorage, Alaska. At the very least, halfway through that flight, Anchorage would have been the closest major airport as most of the flight is over the open ocean
See this page for a record of a recent China Airlines flight along with a map of the flight path: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CAL8/history/20170428/1550Z/RCTP/KLAX
This kind of flight path is not proof either way as it has a strong north/south component and is located in the northern hemisphere so it would appear to follow a similar path on the north pole azimuthal projection which the flat earthers use. The best way to see how different a flight path can be on a round earth versus a flat earth is to compare the path of a mostly east/west flight in the southern hemisphere such as the flights discussed here: https://www.metabunk.org/flat-earth-theory-debunked-by-short-flights-qf27-qf28-from-australia-to-south-america.t6483/
The second picture in that other thread shows very clearly how on a globe a "curved" path is actually a straight line when viewed from above.
Nirmala,
I appreciate the response. I don't claim to know a lot about how this stuff works and I've been reading and watching videos that both attempt to prove and debunk a flat earth. I'm not an FE'er, but there are a lot of things that don't make sense, on either side, to me. I continually tell myself, regardless of flat earth or globe, I am learning things that I slept through in school. Thanks for taking the time to explain things without being condescending.
I guess the next step is to take pictures yourself.
Yes, that CGI image explains it all
Please explain how it shows on the flat earth maps why it is a longer distance from Australia to south America than it is from uae to Australia? Also when I flew from Doha to Melbourne I flew over Indian ocean but you can't go that route on the flat earth map, the flat earth has you over India . also if you circumnavigate earth if it is a globe then it can travel in a straight path round and on flat earth you go in a circle so you stop going straight and start adding time and distance.? If maps wrong then how can it be fixed without changing distance between the different points?
A Taiwanese woman gave birth 6 hours into a flight from Bali to LAX, which is 19 hour flight. They had to make an emergency landing in Anchorage Alaska, which is a 23 hour flight from Bali to Alaska. 6 hours into a flight from Bali to LAX and you go over 2,000 miles off course to get to Alaska? That emergency landing doesn't make sense on a globe. It does on a Flat Earth map, though. On a Flat Earth map, Anchorage is in the middle of Bali and LAX.
I don't know if that proves anything, but it sure is suspicious.
What the video below or just google "Taiwanese woman gives birth on plane" and see for yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR6fQ1zkBhA
Has anyone ever observed, experimented on, or proven the existence of curved water, anywhere, ever?
And the original point still stands. Accusing the round earth theory of having some aspects that seem remarkably convenient does not explain away the same phenomenon in the flat earth theory. Not to mention that the sun and moon being the same size in the sky does not violate any known principles of the behavior of light, unlike the flat earth theory of magnification which is based on a physical effect that has never been proven to exist.
But it is very telling which remarkably convenient explanations you accept wholeheartedly and which ones you criticize.