Ghost of V

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #80 on: August 06, 2014, 09:26:40 PM »
You're grasping at straws here, Gully. I'm aware of that definition, but you're still using the term incorrectly. Unless you consider "Television Show" an ad hominem attack, you have no case. I'm sorry if the words "Television Show" offend you. I'm also sorry that you're so adverse to people advertising their personal opinions on the internet (even when they are backed by evidence). My entire post was directed toward Rama Set, who is the author of his post and his own personal view, and in no way did I personally attack him or his credibility.


Evidence that Mythbusters is backed by the conspiracy exists, so trying to play that point off as an "ad hominem" is a desperate move, not to mention a low-blow with no basis in logic.
You're confused.

 You've declared that you won't believe anything they say. The only reasons you list are irrelevant to the evidence: 1) TV Show and 2) Complicit with liars. So your post meets the definition of the fallacy.

The validity of your personal attack (Here: does the Conspiracy back the MBers?) is irrelevant in determining your failure in using the fallacy. You really should learn to debate the words not the person, with exception. For example of an exception, EnaG clearly shows that Rowbotham cannot argue using simple physics. His background fails him, and I dismiss him as unqualified and wrong.

That evidence exists for your outlandish claim is insufficient. In addition to providing citations for your outlandish claims, you need to show that the preponderance of the evidence supports your outlandish claim.


You're making some assumptions here, and they're all wrong. Next time, just pick the right fallacy. Just because you don't accept the evidence for my claims doesn't mean I'm making things up or using an ad hominem fallacy. You are  stretching the definition of the phrase considerably to meet your argument, and it's obvious. Stop it. Just because you use big words doesn't mean you're a grown up.

^ You can call that an ad hominem and I won't argue.


It's also interesting how whenever I get into a conversation with you you start arguing semantics. Are you over compensating for your lack of knowledge on the subject? Wikipedia is just a few clicks away from where you are now.

Offline Gulliver

  • *
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #81 on: August 06, 2014, 09:31:03 PM »
You're making some assumptions here, and they're all wrong. Next time, just pick the right fallacy
Challenge: List, quoting where I made the assumption and explain how I was wrong each and every time. You'll welcome to limit yourself to this thread.

Oh, and while you'll busy practicing how to document your position, please do provide those citations I've been prompting you for in this thread. Thanks.
Don't rely on FEers for history or physics.
[Hampton] never did [go to prison] and was never found guilty of libel.
The ISS doesn't accelerate.

Ghost of V

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #82 on: August 06, 2014, 09:33:06 PM »
Challenge: List, quoting where I made the assumption and explain how I was wrong each and every time. You'll welcome to limit yourself to this thread.

Please avoid ad hominem fallacies. You need to accept the evidence provided. If you're convinced that in a vacuum the flag would behave differently, then do an experiment and document the result.

Also please provide your source for your outlandish claim that half of their busted myths have been proven inaccurate time and time again.

I thought we already covered this. Mixed in with you telling me what to do and sounding like a pompous ass, you're making an assumption (falsely) that I am making an ad hominem fallacy when in actuality you have clearly displayed to us that you have no idea what an ad hominem is, having to go as far to quote something out of context from wikipedia to defend your position.

Your assumption is obvious, but I forgive you since you clearly misunderstood what I was saying.

The fact that you are trying to slander my argument by calling it an "ad hominem attack" is an ad hominem fallacy to begin with. You're the guilty one here.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 10:08:36 PM by Vauxhall »

Rama Set

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #83 on: August 06, 2014, 09:36:29 PM »
You're grasping at straws here, Gully. I'm aware of that definition, but you're still using the term incorrectly. Unless you consider "Television Show" an ad hominem attack, you have no case. I'm sorry if the words "Television Show" offend you. I'm also sorry that you're so adverse to people advertising their personal opinions on the internet (even when they are backed by evidence). My entire post was directed toward Rama Set, who is the author of his post and his own personal view, and in no way did I personally attack him or his credibility.


Evidence that Mythbusters is backed by the conspiracy exists, so trying to play that point off as an "ad hominem" is a desperate move, not to mention a low-blow with no basis in logic.

Where is the evidence?  Also, why did you mention that the flag must be waving for 2+ hours?

The moon walk lasted a little over 2 hours, there are photos documenting this time.

You appear to be the one requiring the flag to be moving the entire time. Can you make the leap from there was a 2 hour space walk to "the flag must have been moving the entire time"?

Different photos taken at different times show different creases in the fabric. I'm not sure what else to tell you.

Perhaps how you know it was wind or a stagehand that moved it?

Offline Gulliver

  • *
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #84 on: August 06, 2014, 10:11:48 PM »
Challenge: List, quoting where I made the assumption and explain how I was wrong each and every time. You'll welcome to limit yourself to this thread.

Please avoid ad hominem fallacies. You need to accept the evidence provided. If you're convinced that in a vacuum the flag would behave differently, then do an experiment and document the result.

Also please provide your source for your outlandish claim that half of their busted myths have been proven inaccurate time and time again.

I thought we already covered this. Mixed in with you telling me what to do and sounding like a pompous ass, you're making an assumption (falsely) that I am making an ad hominem fallacy when in actuality you have clearly displayed to us that you have no idea what an ad hominem is, having to go as far to quote something out of context from wikipedia to defend your position.

Your assumption is obvious, but I forgive you since you clearly misunderstood what I was saying.

The fact that you are trying to slander my argument by calling it an "ad hominem attack" is an ad hominem fallacy to being with. You're the guilty one here.
Are you actually trying to claim that you did not attack MBers?

As shown in the mythbusters video posted by Markjo, the flag continues to wave in the absence of air, for a couple of seconds after the finish moving it.  This is exactly what is seen in the video you posted.  Where is the problem?

Mythbusters is a television show, and half of their "busted" myths have been proven inaccurate time and time again. I wouldn't take what they say as proof of anything, you shouldn't either. There is evidence that their show is funded by the conspiracy anyways.
Don't rely on FEers for history or physics.
[Hampton] never did [go to prison] and was never found guilty of libel.
The ISS doesn't accelerate.

Ghost of V

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #85 on: August 06, 2014, 10:20:23 PM »
My personal opinion about Mythbusters is irrelevant. You're getting pretty off topic here.

Do you have anything else to say about the flag on the moon and the 2 hours of photographic documentation showing that it was indeed waving?

Rama Set

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #86 on: August 06, 2014, 10:33:38 PM »
My personal opinion about Mythbusters is irrelevant. You're getting pretty off topic here.

Do you have anything else to say about the flag on the moon and the 2 hours of photographic documentation showing that it was indeed waving?

The photographs do not document that it was either wind or a stagehand moving a flag so I am not sure how you can support your position in that regard. It also seems you have not done the homework to claim that the flag was continually moving rather than undergoing a few different changes in position.

You really have not gotten any closer to showing anything untoward or suspicious.

Ghost of V

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #87 on: August 06, 2014, 10:40:09 PM »
My personal opinion about Mythbusters is irrelevant. You're getting pretty off topic here.

Do you have anything else to say about the flag on the moon and the 2 hours of photographic documentation showing that it was indeed waving?

The photographs do not document that it was either wind or a stagehand moving a flag so I am not sure how you can support your position in that regard. It also seems you have not done the homework to claim that the flag was continually moving rather than undergoing a few different changes in position.

You really have not gotten any closer to showing anything untoward or suspicious.

So, you're saying either a) it was waving or b) it was being moved by other causes.

It looks like neither of us have any supporting evidence for both claims, so you're not anywhere close to disproving my theory either.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 11:40:36 PM by Vauxhall »

Rama Set

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #88 on: August 06, 2014, 10:50:37 PM »
My personal opinion about Mythbusters is irrelevant. You're getting pretty off topic here.

Do you have anything else to say about the flag on the moon and the 2 hours of photographic documentation showing that it was indeed waving?

The photographs do not document that it was either wind or a stagehand moving a flag so I am not sure how you can support your position in that regard. It also seems you have not done the homework to claim that the flag was continually moving rather than undergoing a few different changes in position.

You really have not gotten any closer to showing anything untoward or suspicious.

So, you're saying either a) it was waving or b) it was being moved by other causes.

It looks like neither of us have any support evidence for both claims, so you're not anywhere close to disproving my theory either.

I will go with  a) and refer you back to all the evidence provided in this thread to say it is likely that all movement can be attributed to astronauts. Just so I can be thorough, would you happen to know an easy to browse gallery of the photos you mentioned?  I want to see how many times the flag changed position.

Ghost of V

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #89 on: August 06, 2014, 10:53:42 PM »
My personal opinion about Mythbusters is irrelevant. You're getting pretty off topic here.

Do you have anything else to say about the flag on the moon and the 2 hours of photographic documentation showing that it was indeed waving?

The photographs do not document that it was either wind or a stagehand moving a flag so I am not sure how you can support your position in that regard. It also seems you have not done the homework to claim that the flag was continually moving rather than undergoing a few different changes in position.

You really have not gotten any closer to showing anything untoward or suspicious.

So, you're saying either a) it was waving or b) it was being moved by other causes.

It looks like neither of us have any support evidence for both claims, so you're not anywhere close to disproving my theory either.

I will go with  a) and refer you back to all the evidence provided in this thread to say it is likely that all movement can be attributed to astronauts. Just so I can be thorough, would you happen to know an easy to browse gallery of the photos you mentioned?  I want to see how many times the flag changed position.

Here's a collection of several images taken during the Apollo 11 expedition. Keep in mind, this is from NASA's website so results may vary.

Rama Set

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #90 on: August 07, 2014, 12:21:53 AM »
So you don't trust these photos?

Ghost of V

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #91 on: August 07, 2014, 12:23:17 AM »
So you don't trust these photos?

I believe the moon landing was a hoax. Is that what you are asking?

Rama Set

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #92 on: August 07, 2014, 12:29:20 AM »
So you don't trust these photos?

I believe the moon landing was a hoax. Is that what you are asking?

I meant what I asked. Do you trust the photos as a reliable source?

Ghost of V

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #93 on: August 07, 2014, 12:31:44 AM »
Do you trust the photos as a reliable source?

This is actually a very complex question. I trust that the photos are a reliable source for something, yeah.

Rama Set

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #94 on: August 07, 2014, 02:12:09 AM »
Do you trust the photos as a reliable source?

This is actually a very complex question. I trust that the photos are a reliable source for something, yeah.

What something would that be?

Ghost of V

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #95 on: August 07, 2014, 02:17:22 AM »
Do you trust the photos as a reliable source?

This is actually a very complex question. I trust that the photos are a reliable source for something, yeah.

What something would that be?

They are a reliable source for studying NASA's huge disinformation campaign that has been rolling Sonic style since the 60s.

Offline Gulliver

  • *
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #96 on: August 07, 2014, 03:32:57 AM »
My personal opinion about Mythbusters is irrelevant. You're getting pretty off topic here.

Do you have anything else to say about the flag on the moon and the 2 hours of photographic documentation showing that it was indeed waving?
When you express your personal opinion to discredit another it is relevant--as a ad hominem fallacy

You're confused about the burden of evidence. I've made no claims and have no burden. You, on the otherhand
Don't rely on FEers for history or physics.
[Hampton] never did [go to prison] and was never found guilty of libel.
The ISS doesn't accelerate.

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #97 on: August 12, 2014, 07:17:04 PM »
So.. about this "waving" flag. Has anyone ever observed a flag to wave like this on earth?

Re: Dealing with Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #98 on: August 16, 2014, 01:19:14 AM »
test