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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #740 on: March 05, 2022, 08:48:48 PM »
No comment on the fact that the Biden Administration lied about it and that it is illegal to distribute drug paraphernalia?

Who is lying? Who said there were glass pipes in the "kits"?

Here’s the actual program document in question (PDF):

Department of Health and Human Services
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
FY 2022 Harm Reduction Program Grant


Searching on ‘pipe’, 'crack’, ‘glass’, ‘paraphernalia’, I found nothing. No mention of any of that. Searching on ‘kit’ I found, "Safe smoking kits/supplies” as a part of:

Purchase equipment and supplies to enhance harm reduction efforts, such as: o Harm reduction vending machine(s), including stock for machines;
o Infectious diseases testing kits (HIV, HBV, HCV, etc.);
o Medication lock boxes;
o FDA-approved overdose reversal medication (as well as higher dosages now approved by FDA);
o Safe sex kits, including PrEP resources and condoms;
o Safe smoking kits/supplies;
o Screening for infectious diseases (HIV, sexually transmitted infections, viral hepatitis);
o Sharps disposal and medication disposal kits;
o Substance test kits, including test strips for fentanyl and other synthetic drugs;
o Syringes to prevent and control the spread of infectious diseases;
o Vaccination services (hepatitis A, hepatitis B vaccination); and
o Wound care management supplies.

In a joint statement issued Feb. 9, Health and Human Services Secretary Xavier Becerra and Office of National Drug Control Policy Director Dr. Rahul Gupta said the harm-reduction grants won't be used to purchase pipes.
"No federal funding will be used directly or through subsequent reimbursement of grantees to put pipes in safe smoking kits," the statement reads.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/02/11/fact-check-crack-pipes-arent-included-30-million-grant-program/6736281001/

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #741 on: March 05, 2022, 08:57:17 PM »
The Whitehouse denied all crack pipes, not only "glass" crack pipes.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2022/02/09/press-briefing-by-press-secretary-jen-psaki-february-9-2022/



And you searched for the words drug paraphernalia in a document and couldn't find it so crackpipes are therefore not drug paraphernalia? Can you please reveal your age to us so that people here can decide if we want to continue bothering to reply to you?

https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs6/6445/6445p.pdf



I can't wait for you to continue to argue that crack pipes are not drug paraphernalia. ::)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2022, 09:05:10 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #742 on: March 05, 2022, 09:03:44 PM »
The Whitehouse denied all crack pipes, not only "glass crack pipes"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2022/02/09/press-briefing-by-press-secretary-jen-psaki-february-9-2022/



I can't wait for you to continue to argue that crack piper are not drug paraphernalia.  ::)

Who is arguing whether crack pipes are illegal drug paraphernalia or not?

Isn't the clammer all about whether there actually are pipes in the "safe smoking kits" or not? And, apparently, pipes are not in the kits. Seems like a made up issue.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #743 on: March 05, 2022, 09:09:19 PM »
Who is arguing whether crack pipes are illegal drug paraphernalia or not?

Isn't the clammer all about whether there actually are pipes in the "safe smoking kits" or not? And, apparently, pipes are not in the kits. Seems like a made up issue.

It is almost common knowledge that crack pipes are illegal to possess in the US. It doesn't matter how safe they are.

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Possession-Drug-Paraphernalia.htm




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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #744 on: March 05, 2022, 09:20:57 PM »
Who is arguing whether crack pipes are illegal drug paraphernalia or not?

Isn't the clammer all about whether there actually are pipes in the "safe smoking kits" or not? And, apparently, pipes are not in the kits. Seems like a made up issue.

It is almost common knowledge that crack pipes are illegal to possess in the US. It doesn't matter how safe they are.

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Possession-Drug-Paraphernalia.htm





Who is arguing whether crack pipes are illegal drug paraphernalia or not? Why do you keep bringing this up?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #745 on: March 05, 2022, 09:30:30 PM »
apparently, pipes are not in the kits. Seems like a made up issue.

There are clearly pipes in the kit. Maybe you should watch the video again.



It clearly shows the pipes at 0:32.

At 2:28 a news investigation team concludes that it's true that the kits contain the pipes.

Quote from: stack
Who is arguing whether crack pipes are illegal drug paraphernalia or not? Why do you keep bringing this up?

You are, based on your lack of finding a term in a document:

Quote from: stack
Searching on ‘pipe’, 'crack’, ‘glass’, ‘paraphernalia’, I found nothing. No mention of any of that. Searching on ‘kit’ I found, "Safe smoking kits/supplies”

Apparently the document needs to specify that it's illegal drug paraphernalia to be so.  ::)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2022, 09:38:54 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #746 on: March 05, 2022, 10:26:51 PM »
apparently, pipes are not in the kits. Seems like a made up issue.

There are clearly pipes in the kit. Maybe you should watch the video again.



It clearly shows the pipes at 0:32.

At 2:28 a news investigation team concludes that it's true that the kits contain the pipes.

In your video the rasta dude is showing a safe smoking kit he got from a Catholic church in LA. The kit is from "'Being Alive' Los Angeles". From the "Being Alive" Facebook page, here's what their "safe smoking kit" includes:



Notice the date, 11/30/2021. Per the "FY 2022 Harm Reduction Program Grant", applications started being accepted on February 7th, 2022. I don't know when your Rasta guy got his kit, but I'd be shocked if the church's program was funded by the Feds in 3 weeks.

Quote from: stack
Who is arguing whether crack pipes are illegal drug paraphernalia or not? Why do you keep bringing this up?

You are, based on your lack of finding a term in a document:

Quote from: stack
Searching on ‘pipe’, 'crack’, ‘glass’, ‘paraphernalia’, I found nothing. No mention of any of that. Searching on ‘kit’ I found, "Safe smoking kits/supplies”

Apparently the document needs to specify that it's illegal drug paraphernalia to be so.  ::)

How does this work? Who said the document needs to specify the legality of something? How is not finding a reference to pipes in the document amount to the illegality/legality of pipes? You're making no sense at all. All I'm pointing out is that no where in the document does it mention the handing out of pipes.

Rama Set

Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #747 on: March 05, 2022, 10:53:50 PM »
LOL, you fucking hypocrite. Keep trolling. A president lying never mattered to you when his name was Trump.

You have a problem if you think that it's okay for someone to lie and do wrong things because you think that someone else did a wrong thing.

Very important note: Roundy never said it was ok.

He implied that it was okay, by trying to justify it with a ludicrous two wrongs make a right fallacy. Another "But Trump!!!" excuse. Can't you liberals ever own up to your own faults?

Incorrect. He called you out for never batting an eyelash at Trump’s ludicrous lies. Left leaning people have been critical of Biden in this very thread, you should take note and perhaps attempt to live up to our example.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #748 on: March 06, 2022, 03:56:59 PM »
Quote
Notice the date, 11/30/2021. Per the "FY 2022 Harm Reduction Program Grant", applications started being accepted on February 7th, 2022. I don't know when your Rasta guy got his kit, but I'd be shocked if the church's program was funded by the Feds in 3 weeks.

That just means it was funded from a 2021 budget and not a FY 2022 budget. The Drug Policy Alliance admits that there were crack pipes in these kits:



There were crack pipes, but there was no funding earmarked for "just" crack pipes. The funding comes from communities who apply for grants, not directly from the federal government.



Decision to "remove" crack pipes after being criticized for it.

Incorrect. He called you out for never batting an eyelash at Trump’s ludicrous lies. Left leaning people have been critical of Biden in this very thread, you should take note and perhaps attempt to live up to our example.

What he did was try to justify Biden's bad behavior by trying to point the finger elsewhere. This is a form of asserting that two wrongs make a right, or attempting to make Biden's actions more acceptable by pointing out badness elsewhere.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2022, 04:28:00 PM by Tom Bishop »

Rama Set

Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #749 on: March 06, 2022, 06:00:39 PM »
No Tom, people just tired of your hypocrisy is all. You’re making a mountain out of a mole hill in your tired campaign to own the libs. All of your indignation vanishes when it’s someone you prefer because you have no values. I certainly don’t think it’s good for Biden to lie about something so trivial. It’s also trivial and surely there are better things to worry about? Like how this program is helping people with dangerous drug habits?

Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #750 on: March 06, 2022, 06:10:52 PM »
And, apparently, pipes are not in the kits. Seems like a made up issue.
You're making no sense at all. All I'm pointing out is that no where in the document does it mention the handing out of pipes.
Well, the glass pipes are in the kits. From the very first line of your source, "Why we offer Safer Smoking Kits: Providing non-injector supplies, like pipes..." Item list, "What's inside a Safer Smoking Kit: bullet point one: 1 glass straight shooter"

And, I guess you're okay with it, simply because it is old news (2021 funding).

You just directly informed everyone here that something is not listed as present in the kit when it is clearly listed in the kit.

This practice is called gaslighting.

Have you been picked to sift through the kits currently awaiting public distribution to remove the pipes? Is your messaging here a smokescreen designed to assist you in not having to follow through with your assigned responsibilities in this area?
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #751 on: March 06, 2022, 06:22:29 PM »
No Tom, people just tired of your hypocrisy is all. You’re making a mountain out of a mole hill in your tired campaign to own the libs. All of your indignation vanishes when it’s someone you prefer because you have no values. I certainly don’t think it’s good for Biden to lie about something so trivial. It’s also trivial and surely there are better things to worry about? Like how this program is helping people with dangerous drug habits?
Helping them how?

Providing people with the tools and the means to aid them in killing themselves is not helping them in any way.

The person in the video states it is not the intent of the government to curb drug use, illicit or otherwise.

Your reasoning = "One more hit off the pipe may be their last, but at least it will prevent them possibly contracting a disease that could kill them."

Never mind 30 mill USD could fund a lot of actual shelters/current addiction recovery centers.

Public health initiative, my ass.

Tom is not the hypocrite here.

You are.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #752 on: March 06, 2022, 07:45:02 PM »
And, apparently, pipes are not in the kits. Seems like a made up issue.
You're making no sense at all. All I'm pointing out is that no where in the document does it mention the handing out of pipes.
Well, the glass pipes are in the kits. From the very first line of your source, "Why we offer Safer Smoking Kits: Providing non-injector supplies, like pipes..." Item list, "What's inside a Safer Smoking Kit: bullet point one: 1 glass straight shooter"

And, I guess you're okay with it, simply because it is old news (2021 funding).

You just directly informed everyone here that something is not listed as present in the kit when it is clearly listed in the kit.

This practice is called gaslighting.

Have you been picked to sift through the kits currently awaiting public distribution to remove the pipes? Is your messaging here a smokescreen designed to assist you in not having to follow through with your assigned responsibilities in this area?

Now you're not making any sense either. And yeah, I don't have a problem with it. Just like I don't have a problem with needle exchanges and doling out Narcan.

Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #753 on: March 06, 2022, 10:30:10 PM »
And, apparently, pipes are not in the kits. Seems like a made up issue.
You're making no sense at all. All I'm pointing out is that no where in the document does it mention the handing out of pipes.
Well, the glass pipes are in the kits. From the very first line of your source, "Why we offer Safer Smoking Kits: Providing non-injector supplies, like pipes..." Item list, "What's inside a Safer Smoking Kit: bullet point one: 1 glass straight shooter"

And, I guess you're okay with it, simply because it is old news (2021 funding).

You just directly informed everyone here that something is not listed as present in the kit when it is clearly listed in the kit.

This practice is called gaslighting.

Have you been picked to sift through the kits currently awaiting public distribution to remove the pipes? Is your messaging here a smokescreen designed to assist you in not having to follow through with your assigned responsibilities in this area?

Now you're not making any sense either.
Sense has been demonstrably eluding you for many years.

Gets that way when you post remarks not supported by your own source.

And I'm not surprised you are all for nonsense.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

Rama Set

Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #754 on: March 07, 2022, 12:00:49 AM »
No Tom, people just tired of your hypocrisy is all. You’re making a mountain out of a mole hill in your tired campaign to own the libs. All of your indignation vanishes when it’s someone you prefer because you have no values. I certainly don’t think it’s good for Biden to lie about something so trivial. It’s also trivial and surely there are better things to worry about? Like how this program is helping people with dangerous drug habits?
Helping them how?

Providing people with the tools and the means to aid them in killing themselves is not helping them in any way.

The person in the video states it is not the intent of the government to curb drug use, illicit or otherwise.

Your reasoning = "One more hit off the pipe may be their last, but at least it will prevent them possibly contracting a disease that could kill them."

Never mind 30 mill USD could fund a lot of actual shelters/current addiction recovery centers.

Public health initiative, my ass.

Tom is not the hypocrite here.

You are.

You have already had the benefits and limitations of such a program explained to you. If you choose to ignore that, that is your problem, not mine.

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #755 on: March 07, 2022, 12:10:42 AM »
And, apparently, pipes are not in the kits. Seems like a made up issue.
You're making no sense at all. All I'm pointing out is that no where in the document does it mention the handing out of pipes.
Well, the glass pipes are in the kits. From the very first line of your source, "Why we offer Safer Smoking Kits: Providing non-injector supplies, like pipes..." Item list, "What's inside a Safer Smoking Kit: bullet point one: 1 glass straight shooter"

And, I guess you're okay with it, simply because it is old news (2021 funding).

You just directly informed everyone here that something is not listed as present in the kit when it is clearly listed in the kit.

This practice is called gaslighting.

Have you been picked to sift through the kits currently awaiting public distribution to remove the pipes? Is your messaging here a smokescreen designed to assist you in not having to follow through with your assigned responsibilities in this area?

Now you're not making any sense either.
Sense has been demonstrably eluding you for many years.

Gets that way when you post remarks not supported by your own source.

And I'm not surprised you are all for nonsense.

How am I posting remarks not supported by my own source? The point is:

- The video shows a guy with a safe smoking kit from some org called "Being Alive LA"
- We don't know when the footage was gathered
- Being Alive LA has been supplying safe smoking kits that include a pipe since at least November of last year
- The program everyone is bitching about didn't start taking applications for funding until 3 or so weeks ago
- I'd be surprised if Being Alive LA got funding from the Feds in 3 weeks considering, well, it's the Feds - Not really known for expediency
- There's no where in the actual program specs that says anything about providing pipes
- And lastly, does every safe smoking kit from every org in America that dispenses them have a pipe in it?

The only question is will the 2022 program in question tell funding recipient orgs, "Oh, by the way, you can't use the funds to include pipes in your safe smoking kits. Needles, fine, pipes, no."? And then, how is that policed at the individual org level?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #756 on: March 07, 2022, 03:52:31 AM »

- Being Alive LA has been supplying safe smoking kits that include a pipe since at least November of last year

Yes, because budgets are set in stone and it's impossible to reappropriate money during a year or reimburse for prior year activities, or that this was a planned item for last year.  ::)

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #757 on: March 07, 2022, 06:17:17 AM »

- Being Alive LA has been supplying safe smoking kits that include a pipe since at least November of last year

Yes, because budgets are set in stone and it's impossible to reappropriate money during a year or reimburse for prior year activities, or that this was a planned item for last year.  ::)

Do you have knowledge of Being Alive's budgeting plans? If you do, please share them. I'm pretty sure you don't, but actually, I do:

Video misrepresents funding of drug smoking kits in LA

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. No federal funding was used to provide the safer smoking kits that are being distributed by Being Alive, an HIV and AIDS-focused nonprofit in Los Angeles. The organization’s funding comes from the state of California, according to Being Alive staff and state officials. The safer smoking kits include sterile supplies intended to decrease harm caused to drug users....

But Jamie Baker, executive director of Being Alive, told The Associated Press the claims are “absolutely not true.”
“Our funding comes from the state of California,” he said. “No federal dollars are used for this program at all.”

Baker said that for about a year, Being Alive has been distributing smoking kits. He noted that primary funding for their smoking supplies distribution comes from the California Harm Reduction Initiative.

Corey Egel, a spokesperson for the California Department of Public Health, confirmed in a statement to the AP that Being Alive was awarded a $160,000, three-year grant from the California Harm Reduction Initiative, and that the organization was also recently awarded more than $16,000 for supplies such as safer smoking materials and syringes.


So yeah, you're wrong.

Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #758 on: March 07, 2022, 07:46:11 AM »

- Being Alive LA has been supplying safe smoking kits that include a pipe since at least November of last year

Yes, because budgets are set in stone and it's impossible to reappropriate money during a year or reimburse for prior year activities, or that this was a planned item for last year.  ::)

Do you have knowledge of Being Alive's budgeting plans? If you do, please share them. I'm pretty sure you don't, but actually, I do:

Video misrepresents funding of drug smoking kits in LA

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. No federal funding was used to provide the safer smoking kits that are being distributed by Being Alive, an HIV and AIDS-focused nonprofit in Los Angeles. The organization’s funding comes from the state of California, according to Being Alive staff and state officials. The safer smoking kits include sterile supplies intended to decrease harm caused to drug users....

But Jamie Baker, executive director of Being Alive, told The Associated Press the claims are “absolutely not true.”
“Our funding comes from the state of California,” he said. “No federal dollars are used for this program at all.”

Baker said that for about a year, Being Alive has been distributing smoking kits. He noted that primary funding for their smoking supplies distribution comes from the California Harm Reduction Initiative.

Corey Egel, a spokesperson for the California Department of Public Health, confirmed in a statement to the AP that Being Alive was awarded a $160,000, three-year grant from the California Harm Reduction Initiative, and that the organization was also recently awarded more than $16,000 for supplies such as safer smoking materials and syringes.


So yeah, you're wrong.
So, no.

He is not wrong.

California gets the money they use to fund the kits from the federal government.

The money they receive from the federal government needs to be spent according to the budget point it was distributed.

ap fact check is a known disinformation site.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #759 on: March 07, 2022, 09:15:37 AM »

- Being Alive LA has been supplying safe smoking kits that include a pipe since at least November of last year

Yes, because budgets are set in stone and it's impossible to reappropriate money during a year or reimburse for prior year activities, or that this was a planned item for last year.  ::)

Do you have knowledge of Being Alive's budgeting plans? If you do, please share them. I'm pretty sure you don't, but actually, I do:

Video misrepresents funding of drug smoking kits in LA

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. No federal funding was used to provide the safer smoking kits that are being distributed by Being Alive, an HIV and AIDS-focused nonprofit in Los Angeles. The organization’s funding comes from the state of California, according to Being Alive staff and state officials. The safer smoking kits include sterile supplies intended to decrease harm caused to drug users....

But Jamie Baker, executive director of Being Alive, told The Associated Press the claims are “absolutely not true.”
“Our funding comes from the state of California,” he said. “No federal dollars are used for this program at all.”

Baker said that for about a year, Being Alive has been distributing smoking kits. He noted that primary funding for their smoking supplies distribution comes from the California Harm Reduction Initiative.

Corey Egel, a spokesperson for the California Department of Public Health, confirmed in a statement to the AP that Being Alive was awarded a $160,000, three-year grant from the California Harm Reduction Initiative, and that the organization was also recently awarded more than $16,000 for supplies such as safer smoking materials and syringes.


So yeah, you're wrong.
So, no.

He is not wrong.

California gets the money they use to fund the kits from the federal government.

Wrong again.

Corey Egel, a spokesperson for the California Department of Public Health, confirmed in a statement to the AP that Being Alive was awarded a $160,000, three-year grant from the California Harm Reduction Initiative, and that the organization was also recently awarded more than $16,000 for supplies such as safer smoking materials and syringes.

It is funded by California, not the Feds...As in California Tax Payers.

The California Harm Reduction Initiative, or CHRI, was established by the California Budget Act of 2019, which included $15.2 million to strengthen substance use disorder response by supporting syringe services programs (SSPs). This program represents the single largest government investment in harm reduction in the history of California.

Regarding California SSP's:

California Law and Safer Smoking Supplies

What Non-Injection Drug Using Supplies Does CDPH Provide to SSPs?
Safer smoking materials made available through the CDPH Syringe Supplies Clearinghouse may include glass pipes, foil, copper wire filters, and other materials, subject to change based on availability and funding. For more information on supplies currently offered by the Clearinghouse, contact SSPinfo@cdph.ca.gov.


Looks like California has included pipes in the safe smoking kits since at least 2019. Not to mention, California’s GDP in 2021 was $3.35T, representing 14.6% of the total U.S. economy. If California were a country, it would be the 5th largest economy in the world. California can afford such programs.

ap fact check is a known disinformation site.

Says who? You'd have to show evidence that AP made up the quote from the California Department of Public Health and that the California Budget Act of 2019 doesn't exist. Evidence you don't have. Which means you're just sayin' stuff to say stuff.

Looks like you can't get much more Centrist and Factual Reporting than AP:

« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 09:26:27 AM by stack »