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Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: BillO on September 07, 2022, 02:35:34 PM

Title: Liz Truss
Post by: BillO on September 07, 2022, 02:35:34 PM
So, what the consensus on her?

It seems she has very little support from either the people of the UK or her party.  Given that it looks like she will have a rough ride.  Is she up to it?
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: Rushy on September 07, 2022, 02:51:01 PM
At this point the UK is an experiment where we can observe what happens when the pilot of a nation points the nose directly at the ground and puts the throttle at 100%.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on September 07, 2022, 02:51:14 PM
I was watching a video about her earlier.
She sounds bloody awful.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on September 07, 2022, 03:01:36 PM
I'll give her one thing, she has immediately said she'll take steps to help people struggling with energy bills.
That is a good thing, and a necessary one.
But she's doing it by basically borrowing money, effectively kicking the can down the road and hoping future generations will pick up the bill. She argues that it's a better approach than a windfall tax which would discourage companies doing business in the UK. So the argument is it will help grow the economy so overall we'll be better off. Although I suspect the "we" there is rich people, these energy companies make an insane amount of profit, they can surely afford to foot some of this bill.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: crutonius on September 07, 2022, 06:19:52 PM
Two thoughts.

I've never seen such an uncharismatic leader.

The UK is in for a very difficult next few years and she'll most likely get blamed for it.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on September 07, 2022, 07:29:16 PM
I've never seen such an uncharismatic leader.
Agreed, but as cringe-inducing as she is at times, charisma isn't the metric for who will be a good PM. Boris is charismatic, but he's been a complete disaster. I value integrity and honestly far more than charisma.

Quote
The UK is in for a very difficult next few years and she'll most likely get blamed for it.
She's inherited a mess, she wanted the top job, it's up to her to sort it out. Not everything is in her control of course, but the decisions she make will affect how people's lives go over the next few years.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: xasop on September 07, 2022, 07:34:06 PM
I value integrity and honestly far more than charisma.
You're in for a disappointment either way.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 07, 2022, 07:36:42 PM
Boris is charismatic
I know this won't come as a surprise at this point, but wow, you and I really read people differently. Are we talking about the same person? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLcCZjDoWTQ)

Anyway, my expectation is that Truss will be relatively milquetoast. She's a boring candidate that will continue pushing the Tory agenda, which is pretty shit, but I don't think she's about to be dramatically worse than Johnson or May.

Maybe, just maybe, we'll get an opposition at some point so people can start voting for not-Tories in General Elections.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on September 07, 2022, 09:30:05 PM
Boris is charismatic
I know this won't come as a surprise at this point, but wow, you and I really read people differently. Are we talking about the same person? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLcCZjDoWTQ)
Ha, fair. Ok, maybe charismatic is the wrong word. Entertaining then? Charming? When Boris does a speech it’s funny and entertaining and people like it. He has an astonishing ability to defuse situations. I mean look at this. It was in the wake of him saying the thing about Muslim women looking like letterboxes. The press camp outside looking for comment, he puts on some ridiculous clothes, ruffles his hair and shuffles out with a tea tray. And look

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r799U_-jAnk

Literally 10 seconds in she’s laughing along with him. He’s bloody brilliant at that. No one else could have stayed PM as long as he did as scandal after scandal broke.

And yes, it would be nice if we had an opposition worthy of the name. If Labour do win the next election it will only because of a collective “oh not more of this shit, let’s try something else”
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: crutonius on September 07, 2022, 10:44:00 PM
The term "charisma" is a broad one.  Donald Trump I would describe as having a kind of charisma even though I personally find him to be a vile human being.  He sounds like an evil buffoon but he does effectively get a lot of attention and can hold an audience.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: BillO on September 08, 2022, 01:55:11 AM
Yeah, charisma can take on many forms, lots of which are agressive, dangerous and malignant.  Hitler (bomb!!).

Yet it is not a requirement to be a competent world level leader.  Angela Merkel comes immediately to mind.

I hope Truss does not disappoint, or at least does not totally fuck up..   The UK needs a competent  leader for a while.  It has been without for some time.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on October 20, 2022, 01:12:41 PM
Is she up to it?
Nope.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-63309400
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: Rama Set on October 20, 2022, 01:21:04 PM
Is she up to it?
Nope.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-63309400

The lettuce won!
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on October 20, 2022, 01:48:06 PM
Well this is all an utter shit-show.

For those of you who don't follow UK politics, in the last leadership contest it came down to Sunak vs Truss. The Conservative MPs favoured Sunak but he didn't have enough support to win outright so it went to the Tory members who voted for Truss. She came in on a ticket of low tax and high spending (stop me if you can see any flaw in that plan...). They announced a mini-budget which cut taxes for the most well off in society at a cost of £45bn to the Treasury, and no spending cuts. Unsurprisingly, the markets reacted by going "wtf?!" and the pound tanked, and kept doing so as she doubled down saying she wasn't going to do a U-turn. Then she did a U-turn, sacked the chancellor who announced the mini-budget she approved and installed a new one who almost immediately rolled back almost everything the mini-budget had done.
Then last night there was utter chaos as a vote was held with talk of some Conservative MPs being bullied into voting for the government, and the Home Secretary resigned, making it clear that Truss was the reason. Today multiple MPs said they had no confidence in her and in the end she had to resign. She's been in post 45 days, it's a new record for shortest tenure apparently.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: crutonius on October 20, 2022, 01:56:36 PM
And they said a woman could never break the record for shortest run at PM.

Take that patriarchy!
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: Roundy on October 20, 2022, 03:25:58 PM
Wow, British politics might just be more fucked up than American politics.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on October 20, 2022, 03:32:32 PM
Wow, British politics might just be more fucked up than American politics.
After Brexit you one upped us with Trump.
But yeah, I think we've retaken the "crown", the last year has been an astonishing mess.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: Rama Set on October 20, 2022, 04:20:00 PM
Wow, British politics might just be more fucked up than American politics.
After Brexit you one upped us with Trump.
But yeah, I think we've retaken the "crown", the last year has been an astonishing mess.

We will see for how long. Trump is staring down the barrel of multiple indictments
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on October 20, 2022, 04:22:34 PM
If you elect him again in 2024 then fine, you win.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: Crudblud on October 20, 2022, 06:43:48 PM
The Tories have become incestuous and cannibalistic, they need a good decade or more in opposition to sort themselves out. Better yet, I hope Labour makes good on the PR manifesto vote from this year's conference and enacts it when they inevitably win the next GE. Put country before party and let in a greater plurality of voices. If we have any sense (wishful thinking?) we should all want to get well shot of giant dinosaur parties after this exclamation mark at the end of a long sentence of absolute fuckery.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: Pete Svarrior on October 20, 2022, 07:04:21 PM
the end of a long sentence
hahaha oh wow
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: Rama Set on October 20, 2022, 07:46:39 PM
If you elect him again in 2024 then fine, you win.

What if acts of violence are committed because he is charged with a crime?
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: markjo on October 22, 2022, 12:08:02 AM
Maybe Boris Johnson isn't looking so bad anymore.
Quote from: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-63342114
Boris Johnson, the man ousted as UK prime minister by his own government just three months ago, has emerged as an early front-runner to be the next prime minister.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on October 22, 2022, 06:20:37 PM
Note this paragraph from that article:

Quote
He remains under investigation by the Parliamentary Standards Committee, which in theory could lead to him being suspended from Parliament, or even being kicked out as an MP.

It is genuinely incredible they would even consider this. He presided over scandal after scandal, became the only PM in history to be fined for breaking the law - Covid laws he defined - and then was finally hounded out of office for being unfit to govern.
Time after time he lied to the house and his own party. As every lie was exposed it was replaced by another. And a mere few months later this is the guy they’re supporting? I mean, not all of them are. Sunak seems to be the one most of them prefer. But if Johnson gets 100 supporters, and I fear he will, then it will go to the membership who I think are probably stupid enough to vote Johnson in. They voted Truss in. It’s an incredible shit show.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: markjo on October 22, 2022, 07:02:56 PM
Yeah, but at least he isn't Liz Truss.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on October 22, 2022, 07:13:48 PM
Yeah, but at least he isn't Liz Truss.
He isn’t.
But Sunak isn’t Truss either, and he isn’t Johnson. Johnson does, for some baffling reason, command a lot of support in the country. But a lot of people see him for what he is and him being reinstalled would leave us more divided than ever.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: xasop on October 22, 2022, 07:44:15 PM
The only reasonable way out of any of this is a general election. Anything else is just prolonging the torment.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on October 22, 2022, 08:12:21 PM
The only reasonable way out of any of this is a general election. Anything else is just prolonging the torment.
Correct. But that seems unlikely.
The Tories know they’d get wiped out so they’re not going to vote for that.
One could argue that Boris does at least have a mandate from “the people”. That’s the only argument for him being reinstalled. But he’s shown himself unfit to lead.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on October 23, 2022, 08:56:33 PM
Oh thank fuck.
Boris has pulled out.
First time for everything, I guess.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: Rama Set on October 23, 2022, 09:48:48 PM
Oh thank fuck.
Boris has pulled out.
First time for everything, I guess.

That’s what she said
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on October 24, 2022, 03:03:22 PM
So it's going to be Sunak.
I can live with that.
Boris "did the decent thing" and dropped out yesterday. Obviously he didn't really, he just didn't get the support he needed. It seems vanishingly unlikely he'd have dropped out otherwise as he'd have won a vote of the members. And it seems like Penny Mordaunt didn't get the backers she needed either so Sunak won by default, the two sweetest words in the English language.

It's kinda ironic that our PM is now someone who hasn't been voted for by either the population, the Conservative party members or even the MPs. In fact, the one vote he did face was amongst the membership a couple of months ago and he lost it. And now he's PM. Chuckle. Good old democracy, eh?

But I can live with him as PM and it does at least feel like we have a grown up in the room again, so I guess that's a good thing.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on October 25, 2022, 12:25:15 PM
And now Rees-Mogg has resigned. This is turning into rather a good week.
For those not familiar, he’s another ultra posh old Etonian who thinks he has some divine right to rule and that he’s better than us common plebs. Well fuck him. Good riddance
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: Rama Set on October 25, 2022, 12:49:13 PM
And now Rees-Mogg has resigned. This is turning into rather a good week.
For those not familiar, he’s another ultra posh old Etonian who thinks he has some divine right to rule and that he’s better than us common plebs. Well fuck him. Good riddance

You folks turned your moment of American exceptionalism in to decent win.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on October 25, 2022, 01:25:42 PM
And now Rees-Mogg has resigned. This is turning into rather a good week.
For those not familiar, he’s another ultra posh old Etonian who thinks he has some divine right to rule and that he’s better than us common plebs. Well fuck him. Good riddance

You folks turned your moment of American exceptionalism in to decent win.
This has basically been our government over the last 3 months:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WZLJpMOxS4

But Sunak was by far the least bad option, he called bullshit on Truss's idiotic plans from the start. So he will bring a bit of stability. Really there should be a general election, there almost certainly won't be but at least we should have a functioning government again. For a bit.
Title: Re: Liz Truss
Post by: AATW on October 26, 2022, 11:51:18 AM
Watching Sunak at PMQ’s today (Prime Minister’s Questions, a weekly part of our parliament where MPs get to ask the PM Qs, hence the name). He came across well, I’m quite impressed by him. It does feel like we have a grown up in the room again.