George

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1660 on: November 03, 2016, 10:17:14 PM »
Trump clearly knows how politics and government work: corruption and cronyism.

A bumper sticker could tell us that much.  Do you really think expressing a sentiment that commonplace and passé constitutes being knowledgeable of politics and government?

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1661 on: November 03, 2016, 11:01:37 PM »
See that's where we're going to differ in opinion. Trump clearly knows how politics and government work: corruption and cronyism. That's why he is vowing to "Drain the Swamp".

why do you believe him?  why are you willing to simply take him at his word that he's willing or able to end political corruption?
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1662 on: November 03, 2016, 11:17:49 PM »
Anyway:

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/11/02/Growing-Republican-Chorus-If-Clinton-Wins-She-Should-Be-Impeached

This is a new low.  At least they gave Obama a year before determining that they'd fight him at every point.  Clinton won't even get that.

Because Obama was a choir boy compared to this bitch
Yes and she's competent.
Look, what would you prefer: someone who's intelligent, competent, and corrupt or someone who's quick to anger and has no knowledge of politics or how governments work?

When choosing between two evils, I go with the competent one.  At least they will keep the status quo.


See that's where we're going to differ in opinion. Trump clearly knows how politics and government work: corruption and cronyism. That's why he is vowing to "Drain the Swamp". Just to be clear: It's your opinion she is competent and intelligent, but simultaneously incapable of operating a secure server or knowing classified material shouldn't be sent thru insecure means. Her literal defense is stupidity and incompetence, because the other option involves criminality.
Tell me, are you capable of solving complex mathematical equations?
Getting away with murder?
Balancing the books of a major corporation?
Can you fix your own car or PC?

A lack of skills (in this case computers) does not make someone stupid, it makes them ignorant of that area.  Clinton is quite intelligent but is not tech savvy (or wasn't back then).  To claim that makes her unintelligent then makes the entire population of the world unintelligent as everyone lacks skills at something complex.  Most can't fix their own car.  Most can't fix their own PC.  Most can't diagnose their health problems or build a cabinet. 

And finally:
If you take your car to a mechanic.  The best mechanic.  And he says "Sure, your car can drive under water" are you gonna question him?  Probably not.  He's the best mechanic, why would he lie?
We know Clinton setup her own e-mail server, not by her own hand but by a hired one.  Whose to say those she hired didn't simply say "Yep, it's totally secure.  Unhackable.  Don't worry about it."  I mean, it's not like the US government servers are any better.  Or major corporations for that matter.  How many times have you read stories of credit cards or personal information being stolen?  The IRS got hacked too, remember?

So tell me, why is she so unintelligent for choosing an e-mail server she likely knew little about but was probably better than the state department's system?

Also:
Quote from: garygreen
why do you believe him?  why are you willing to simply take him at his word that he's willing or able to end political corruption?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1663 on: November 04, 2016, 12:59:27 AM »
I don't know what the other guy's argument is, but mine has always been that Hillary has been very purposefully using that server to sell information to foreign governments. If she wasn't selling it, then she was giving it away for free. Either option speaks to incompetence.

So tell me, why is she so unintelligent for choosing an e-mail server she likely knew little about but was probably better than the state department's system?

She was the Secretary of State for many years and told the FBI she didn't know what a classification header looks like and couldn't give an example of what would make data classified. She is either treasonous or utterly incompetent, both options being worse than a worst-case scenario Trump.

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1664 on: November 04, 2016, 01:16:16 AM »
I don't know what the other guy's argument is, but mine has always been that Hillary has been very purposefully using that server to sell information to foreign governments. If she wasn't selling it, then she was giving it away for free. Either option speaks to incompetence.

what evidence do you have to support this assertion?
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1665 on: November 04, 2016, 02:29:41 AM »
If you take your car to a mechanic.  The best mechanic.  And he says "Sure, your car can drive under water" are you gonna question him?  Probably not.  He's the best mechanic, why would he lie?
We know Clinton setup her own e-mail server, not by her own hand but by a hired one.  Whose to say those she hired didn't simply say "Yep, it's totally secure.  Unhackable.  Don't worry about it."

The thing is, no, I would not agree with that mechanic, because even with my very limited experience with cars, I know they don't drive underwater. Similarly, Clinton should have known that handling possibly classified information on a private E-mail server was not a good idea. Personally, I think she did it specifically to avoid FOIA requests, but we'll probably never know.

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1666 on: November 04, 2016, 02:37:52 AM »
Hillary is now struggling in New Hampshire, which makes this a not-entirely-unlikely scenario:



God help us all . . .

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Offline Rushy

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1667 on: November 04, 2016, 03:22:22 AM »
Hillary is now struggling in New Hampshire, which makes this a not-entirely-unlikely scenario:



God help us all . . .

That map forgets Trump is +15 in ME CD2 which is worth a single electoral vote. If Trump sees a map like that he's at 270, not 269. ME should be striped blue/red.

I don't know what the other guy's argument is, but mine has always been that Hillary has been very purposefully using that server to sell information to foreign governments. If she wasn't selling it, then she was giving it away for free. Either option speaks to incompetence.

what evidence do you have to support this assertion?

Quote
Authorities now believe there is about a 99 percent chance that up to five foreign intelligence agencies may have accessed and taken emails from Hillary Clinton’s private server, two separate sources with intimate knowledge of the FBI investigations told Fox News.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/03/sources-99-percent-chance-foreign-intel-agencies-breached-clinton-server.html

Either she sold it to them and will claim "they hacked me" or they gained access due to her sheer incompetence. As I said, both are bad options.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 03:26:18 AM by Rushy »

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1668 on: November 04, 2016, 04:17:51 AM »
That map forgets Trump is +15 in ME CD2 which is worth a single electoral vote. If Trump sees a map like that he's at 270, not 269. ME should be striped blue/red.

Where the heck are you getting +15? Emerson College has Clinton+1, October 28–30, and RCP average is Clinton +0.7 in ME2. I don't think my 269-269 map is unrealistic at all.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1669 on: November 04, 2016, 08:28:20 AM »
If you take your car to a mechanic.  The best mechanic.  And he says "Sure, your car can drive under water" are you gonna question him?  Probably not.  He's the best mechanic, why would he lie?
We know Clinton setup her own e-mail server, not by her own hand but by a hired one.  Whose to say those she hired didn't simply say "Yep, it's totally secure.  Unhackable.  Don't worry about it."

The thing is, no, I would not agree with that mechanic, because even with my very limited experience with cars, I know they don't drive underwater. Similarly, Clinton should have known that handling possibly classified information on a private E-mail server was not a good idea. Personally, I think she did it specifically to avoid FOIA requests, but we'll probably never know.
Fair enough.  Then how about "your car can keep you safe in a highway crash" or "that noise isn't anything to worry about".

As for good or bad ideas, let me say two things:
1. It's not a new concept and has been done by several previous members of the white house staff.

2. Considering public opinion is that the government is horrible and can't do anything right, would it not stand to reason that getting a private company to do it would be better?  The government can't do anything right so surely the private enterprise that Hillary hired would be better, yes?

But this just shows that such things are only excuses to dislike the government.  We rant about the inefficiency and poor quality of the government's services but will happily condemn someone for using a private system in it's place if we don't like them.

Quote from: Rushy

Quote<blockquote>Authorities now believe there is about a 99 percent chance that up to five foreign intelligence agencies may have accessed and taken emails from Hillary Clinton’s private server, two separate sources with intimate knowledge of the FBI investigations told Fox News.</blockquote>
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/03/sources-99-percent-chance-foreign-intel-agencies-breached-clinton-server.html

Either she sold it to them and will claim "they hacked me" or they gained access due to her sheer incompetence. As I said, both are bad options.

I have one big issue with this:
How do they know? It's easy enough to determine a hack shortly after it happens if the information is released or if unauthorized access is seen but it's not like they "magically" found a new log file that shows she got hacked years ago.  Nor is it likely any of her information has shown up and even if it has, the FBI wouldn't likely know about it, would they?  It's all fine to say it now but it's not like the hack would have happened last week so why is this evidence suddenly appearing?  And if it was buried, how did the republican investigations not see it?  I mean, these investigators had over  a year to show and leak the information yet they did not.

This is as fake as all those women accusing Trump right before the election.   I suspect this is a group of FBI agents who are like most Trump Supporters: They see evidence where there is none.  They draw conclusions before any facts.  And in the end, they made their own case with their own logic and proclaim it to be factual.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

George

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1670 on: November 04, 2016, 12:56:23 PM »
Guys, let's talk about this story:

http://www.snopes.com/2016/11/02/attorney-representing-woman-suing-trump-on-rape-charges-speaks-out/

Accusations have been made and therefore listen and believe!

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1671 on: November 04, 2016, 01:58:57 PM »
Clinton knowingly consorts with Saudi Arabia while also knowing that they help fund ISIL!

http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/10/hillary-in-leaked-email-saudi-arabia-and-qatar-are-funding-isis/

The e-mail in question:
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/3774

I saw this in this interview:


And I gotta say... why is this a problem?  She is literally saying "We gotta stop them from helping ISIL using diplomacy" rather than "punish them with violence" which is what her critics would likely say.   They claim that the Saudi's have donated heavily to her foundation and maybe they have but she's not stupid.  She knows that if the US suddenly went to war against Saudi Arabi, it would be the worst idea in recent history.

First off, we'd have a fuel embargo so gas prices would jump to insane levels.
We'd have the entire Middle East (except Israel) pissed at us and possibly at war with us. 
And it would only make ISIL stronger.  "America is willing to attack their allies now?  Proof they want to control us all!"  This isn't proof of evil or corruption, this is proof that the world is far more complex than some "good guys vs bad guys" movie. 

If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1672 on: November 04, 2016, 04:14:36 PM »
I don't know what the other guy's argument is, but mine has always been that Hillary has been very purposefully using that server to sell information to foreign governments. If she wasn't selling it, then she was giving it away for free. Either option speaks to incompetence.

what evidence do you have to support this assertion?

Quote
Authorities now believe there is about a 99 percent chance that up to five foreign intelligence agencies may have accessed and taken emails from Hillary Clinton’s private server, two separate sources with intimate knowledge of the FBI investigations told Fox News.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/03/sources-99-percent-chance-foreign-intel-agencies-breached-clinton-server.html

Either she sold it to them and will claim "they hacked me" or they gained access due to her sheer incompetence. As I said, both are bad options.

i meant evidence that she's selling state secrets, not absurd false dilemmas.  i'm not an expert in computer security, but i bet that incompetence isn't literally the only way that servers get hacked.
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Offline model 29

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1673 on: November 05, 2016, 04:33:29 AM »
Who is they?
Those who claim "it doesn't serve a 'sporting' purpose", or "we're protecting the rights of gun owners by exempting the following 900 firearms from this ban" (for example, 50 of them are every slight variant of basically the same model bolt-action rifle) , or "no one needs a shoulder thing that goes up", or "no one needs to have X number of rounds", or "we need to add a tax of X amount per round"....

Ssoo....people who want Gun restrictions?
I thought it was some kind of big conspiracy but its just normal people like me?
And after those restrictions based on make-believe concepts, misleading lists, no knowledge of the subject matter, or some other bs, then what?  More restrictions.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1674 on: November 05, 2016, 06:27:08 AM »
Who is they?
Those who claim "it doesn't serve a 'sporting' purpose", or "we're protecting the rights of gun owners by exempting the following 900 firearms from this ban" (for example, 50 of them are every slight variant of basically the same model bolt-action rifle) , or "no one needs a shoulder thing that goes up", or "no one needs to have X number of rounds", or "we need to add a tax of X amount per round"....

Ssoo....people who want Gun restrictions?
I thought it was some kind of big conspiracy but its just normal people like me?
And after those restrictions based on make-believe concepts, misleading lists, no knowledge of the subject matter, or some other bs, then what?  More restrictions.
You just described most people in regards to political issues.


Again, not a conspiracy, just people who are emotional.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1675 on: November 05, 2016, 02:53:09 PM »
so apparently clinton and podesta literally worship satan...fuck this, i'm out, and at this point i genuinely hope trump wins.  i can't take another four years of listening to this stupid bullshit.

I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

Rama Set

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1676 on: November 05, 2016, 04:18:46 PM »
so apparently clinton and podesta literally worship satan...fuck this, i'm out, and at this point i genuinely hope trump wins.  i can't take another four years of listening to this stupid bullshit.

Breathe

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1677 on: November 05, 2016, 04:22:24 PM »
so apparently clinton and podesta literally worship satan...fuck this, i'm out, and at this point i genuinely hope trump wins.  i can't take another four years of listening to this stupid bullshit.


I'm mostly with ya on that. 
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

George

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1678 on: November 05, 2016, 05:12:18 PM »
I give up.  Vote for Trump.  Vote for Mr. T.  Vote for Bruce Campbell.  Nothing makes sense anymore, and I just want to curl up into a ball and let it all pass me by.

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Offline beardo

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1679 on: November 05, 2016, 05:48:12 PM »
Actually, vote for whoever, except Clinton.
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