Rama Set

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1600 on: October 29, 2016, 06:11:07 PM »
This is all ridiculous. People on a semi-private forum are not committing slander by making unofficial claims of guilt based on available information. It is not unjust, it's inconsequential gossip. Ditto for people saying Hillary is a crook.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1601 on: October 29, 2016, 06:30:51 PM »
in fairness sw, your indigence would be more convincing if it were evenly applied.  i don't recall seeing you this perturbed over anyone calling hillary a crook and a criminal.
Fair enough. I tend to side with the minority opinion because I find it more interesting. But, for the record, Trump does stupid and borderline illegal shit 24/7 and it's disgusting.

besides, isn't slander a crime for which one is presumed innocent until proven guilty?
I would argue I provided my evidence together with the accusation - thus hopefully erasing most presumption either way.

This is all ridiculous. People on a semi-private forum are not committing slander by making unofficial claims of guilt based on available information. It is not unjust, it's inconsequential gossip. Ditto for people saying Hillary is a crook.
It's just locker room banter, bro.

Yes, if two people choose to be stupid on the Internet, it's of no consequence. It's still appalling, but inconsequential. As I said, however, this mentality would have grim consequences if it became more commonplace.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 06:40:37 PM by SexWarrior »
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Offline Rushy

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1602 on: October 29, 2016, 06:44:20 PM »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1603 on: October 29, 2016, 06:54:53 PM »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Online Lord Dave

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1604 on: October 29, 2016, 07:08:48 PM »
Is there evidence to show they did not go to the police first?
Given that Trump is Trump, any charges pressed would be pretty high profile - I doubt we'd have to speak in hypotheticals. I mean, they're digging out tapes from a decade ago where he's bragging about how macho he is. Do you really think we'd miss something this major?

But okay, it's fair to assume that we have no idea, at least formally speaking. Even then, you need to consider the context of this conversation.

  • If they did report it and charges were successfully pressed, presenting the evidence you need to shut me up should be very easy. The burden's on the other crowd, not on me.
  • If they did report it and nothing happened, then every single accusation I've made of Trekky and Saddam being sinister have just been amplified tenfold. After all, we no longer have to presume innocence - we have established innocence. Both Trekky and Saddam made it abundantly clear that they have no interest in ignoring or defying the justice system. In this case, they would have been lying.
  • If they didn't report it, we're back to my previous question.
Apparently one woman did file a lawsuit but withdrew it.
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/exclusive-inside-the-donald-trump-sexual-assault-lawsuit/
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/gossip/bad-dream-donald-ends-settlement-article-1.785734
http://heavy.com/news/2016/10/jill-harth-who-is-donald-trump-sued-houraney-groped-billy-bush-women-sexual-assault-bio-makeup-artist-lawsuit/

Near as I can figure: Her husband sued Trump due to breach of contract.(1995)  She sued him for sexual misconduct.(1997)  She dropped it a month later.  Trump then settled with the husband's company 2 months after that as that lawsuit has some sexual assault allegations in it.

His ex-wife also filed for it during the divorce.  Apparently they were granted the divorce due to inhuman and cruel treatment.

The others have not filed lawsuits and so far I have not found any official reports, which there wouldn't be if they didn't come forward first.  Though a few are being shown in a different light on the subject.  Such as the woman who was on the apprentice.  According to her cousin, she was so happy and supportive of Trump for years until she invited him to her restaurant and he declined.  Then she came forward.


So again:
Fuck the media, can't believe anything you read these days.

Also:
Still waiting for my overseas ballot.
WTF USA?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1605 on: October 29, 2016, 07:14:01 PM »
I do, and he has. He did it quite poorly, but he made it clear that he doesn't do this things (and that Bill does do them).

He denied doing those things, but your argument seems to be that he never even really said that he did those things to begin with because of the chronological order of the phrases he used, or something like that.

Also, some tiny nitpicks to some different posts in this thread - "The Star-Spangled Banner" was written in 1814 by Francis Scott Key and didn't become the national anthem until over a hundred years later, so it had nothing to do with the Founding Fathers, obscenity is actually illegal in the U.S., and slander is not a crime, but a tort.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1606 on: October 29, 2016, 07:30:17 PM »
He denied doing those things, but your argument seems to be that he never even really said that he did those things to begin with because of the chronological order of the phrases he used, or something like that.
No.

Also, some tiny nitpicks to some different posts in this thread - "The Star-Spangled Banner" was written in 1814 by Francis Scott Key and didn't become the national anthem until over a hundred years later, so it had nothing to do with the Founding Fathers
Breaking news: it also doesn't say TRUMP 2K16 when played backwards.
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Offline juner

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1607 on: October 30, 2016, 01:14:10 AM »
Guys I cucked out and voted for Hillary. Sorry...

George

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1608 on: October 30, 2016, 02:13:42 AM »
He denied doing those things, but your argument seems to be that he never even really said that he did those things to begin with because of the chronological order of the phrases he used, or something like that.
No.

No, I'm pretty sure that is what you were trying to argue:

baseless allegations (which, by your own admission, rely on reading Trump's words in reverse...)

you decided to apply a later statement ("Grab them by the pussy") retroactively to "I don't even wait."...that leaves me with the conclusion that you have read the statements in reverse.

Your interpretation involves inventing new definitions for words and reading words right-to-left (Did you know that if you listen to the American anthem in reverse it actually says TRUMP 2K16? QED the Founding Fathers love Trump!).

You even rephrased it a few times ("reverse," "retroactively," "right to left") to make it clearer.  I'm not misunderstanding you.  You made this argument, and it's only fair that you get called out for how silly it is.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1609 on: October 30, 2016, 10:43:07 AM »
    No, I'm pretty sure that is what you were trying to argue:

    [...]

    You even rephrased it a few times ("reverse," "retroactively," "right to left") to make it clearer.  I'm not misunderstanding you.
    No, Saddam. Take a step back and try to read the conversation again. Try to understand what everyone's saying, together with context, then you might be able to actually not derp. It is true that in order to make your insane accusation, you necessarily need to read Trump's statements in reverse or to believe that kissing is groping, but it is not true that "he never even really said that he did those things to begin with because of the chronological order of the phrases he used, or something like that". The fact that you'd have to read Trump's statements in reverse to believe what you believe is just an easily-accessible proof of just how detached from reality your claim is.

    Pointing out that your belief necessarily requires one of two nonsensical assumptions is an overly-simplified but nonetheless effective form of a proof by contradiction.

    The root of the argument, which you've done a marvellous job at missing entirely, is as follows:
    • Trump did indeed never say that he has ever groped a woman. This goes directly against your claim that you did.
    • Trekky attempted to rush to your rescue by presenting a transcript of Trump saying that he kisses women without waiting for consent. That's bad on Trump, but it doesn't help back up your accusation.
    • It is possible that Trekky was referring to a couple of sentences he cut out of the transcript for some reason (perhaps because he didn't originally mean to refer to it?) - "You can do anything [...] grab'em by the pussy [...] you can do anything [...]". Alternatively, he did actually mean to inform us that kissing is groping.
    • The claim that you can do something is different from the claim that you did do something. There are three two possible responses to that:
      • You can either claim that I'm wrong and that "I can do <x>" and "I did do <x>" are one and the same. If that's a position you hold, I have nothing to offer to you but personal insults.
      • You do not believe that "can" and "do" are the same, but you still somehow believe that Trump did say "do". For that to work, you'd have to ignore everything else that has been said, and rely on reading Trump's sentences backwards. Unless you have a good reason to do so, that in itself is really silly. But even if you did have a reason to do so, there is so much material that goes against your claim, and so little material that supports it. You'd simply be so much better off producing some evidence.
      • You're wrong and you know understand why jk that's never gonna happen

    You made this argument, and it's only fair that you get called out for how silly it is.
    Well, it's either that or you think that kissing is sex. I agree, both of your options are incredibly silly and you should probably come back with a better argument. But hey-ho, here you are :^)

    Nice call-out culture reference tho, definitely helps to back up my accusations of you acting like SJWs. Now you just need to break into your trademark rant about how I'm not American and/or how I'm too privileged, which precludes me from making a point.

    Also, it's very important to point out that you have now twice claimed that Trump didn't deny saying he groped women, and that you believe he would have said them. I tried explaining once, but you were having none of it, so here's a transcript proving you to be thoroughly and utterly wrong:

    AC: [...] You bragged that you have sexually assaulted women.

    DT: I don't think you understood.

    [snip - lots of Trump dodging the question]

    AC: So, you're saying you never did that.

    DT: I said things that frankly, you hear these things. And I was embarrassed by it. But I have tremendous respect for women.

    AC: Have you ever done those things?

    DT: No, I have not.

    Guys I cucked out and voted for Hillary. Sorry...
    It's okay, we all knew you were a traitor. That's why you don't have access to the secret meme stash.[/list]
    « Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 11:03:32 AM by SexWarrior »
    Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
    Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

    If we are not speculating then we must assume

    George

    Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
    « Reply #1610 on: October 30, 2016, 03:56:48 PM »
    No, Saddam...It is true that in order to make your insane accusation, you necessarily need to read Trump's statements in reverse or to believe that kissing is groping, but it is not true that "he never even really said that he did those things to begin with because of the chronological order of the phrases he used, or something like that". The fact that you'd have to read Trump's statements in reverse to believe what you believe is just an easily-accessible proof of just how detached from reality your claim is.

    You say no, but then you go on to say yes, at least in part.  It's a really weird argument, and you don't need to be American or unprivileged or an SJW to know that it's simply not how spoken language works, or even just language in general.  I agree that kissing isn't the same thing as groping, and in and of itself, a claim that one can do something is not identical to a claim that one has does something.  But it depends on the context, and the setting, and the vagaries of human communication in general.  There are no solid, scientific rules that let us objectively parse an exchange like this.  Most people would find saying, "I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. I just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything," and then immediately following it with "Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything," to be highly incriminating.  That's why his numbers went down, and that's why he endured so much criticism over it.  As far as I can tell, you're alone in your interpretation of it.

    That transcript you posted supports my point, not yours.  Trump denied that he behaves towards women in the way that he talked about in the video, as I've already acknowledged, but he didn't deny that he said those things to begin with - in fact, he's quite clearly admitting that he did say them, and is apologetic and embarrassed by it.

    Breaking news: it also doesn't say TRUMP 2K16 when played backwards.

    Key must have been a Shillary supporter.
    « Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 11:36:17 PM by George »

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    Offline Rushy

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    Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
    « Reply #1611 on: October 30, 2016, 04:16:11 PM »


    For the record, I still think Comey is trying to cover shit up. Something out of his control has forced him to do this.


    George

    Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
    « Reply #1613 on: October 30, 2016, 10:32:41 PM »


    For the record, I still think Comey is trying to cover shit up. Something out of his control has forced him to do this.

    In fairness, it is kind of wacky to publicize something this ominous and cryptic so soon before the election.  It's FUD.  "Maybe Clinton's guilty of something after all.  Maybe she's not.  We just don't know!  Thought you should know that's where we're at with this!"  Obviously, Comey's in something of an awkward position here.  If he hadn't disclosed this, everyone would be tearing into him and calling it further proof that he was corrupt, despite their policy of not doing that sort of thing with this timing.  And now that he has, well, he's still getting endless criticism for it.  He just can't win.

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    Offline Pete Svarrior

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    Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
    « Reply #1614 on: October 30, 2016, 11:31:53 PM »
    Saddam, I'm going to move on from the "words mean things even if they weren't said" argument now. I explained to you what I meant, and if you insist on putting words in my mouth, then you're just repeating the Trump fiasco I criticised you for in the first place.

    Moving on, it looks like the FBI (not Comey) fucked up by underinforming their director. Now he caught up with things and realised he was never ready to close the case in the first place. An unfortunate turn of events, but not the conspiracy either side is decrying.
    Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
    Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

    If we are not speculating then we must assume

    George

    Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
    « Reply #1615 on: October 31, 2016, 12:02:37 AM »
    ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

    Cool.  But, moving on, everyone behold some liberal propaganda.  At least it doesn't only criticize Trump or the Republicans.

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    Offline Rushy

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    Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
    « Reply #1616 on: October 31, 2016, 02:16:32 AM »
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3210714-Letter-to-Director-Comey-10-30-2016.html



    Harry Reid's going to affect the pH of the Atlantic if he keeps spewing salt of this magnitude.

    Reasons why Hillary is horrible
    « Reply #1617 on: October 31, 2016, 03:45:02 AM »


    And before you start ranting, I believe that Trump is also horrible.
    "Science never solves a problem without creating ten more." - George Bernard Shaw

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    Online Lord Dave

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    Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
    « Reply #1618 on: October 31, 2016, 04:49:00 AM »

    Moving on, it looks like the FBI (not Comey) fucked up by underinforming their director. Now he caught up with things and realised he was never ready to close the case in the first place. An unfortunate turn of events, but not the conspiracy either side is decrying.


    I don't think so.  Cases can become reopened when new evidence pops up unexpectedly.  And if we are to believe the official report, its from a separate and unrelated investigation.  But we don't know what it is.  You're right, its a lose-lose so I think he should of taken the high road and waited until he could state the evidence found.
    If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

    Offline model 29

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    Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
    « Reply #1619 on: October 31, 2016, 05:42:43 PM »
    I haven't visited this thread in some time, but it seems Hillary is still a lying elitist who wants to disarm the citizens and bring in even more people from the middle east.

    Thankyou Trump for running, and probably giving the election to that closet communist.