Rama Set

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1040 on: July 26, 2016, 02:51:47 PM »
Check out his jaw gnashing. Definitely cocaine. Maybe booze too, you just never know.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1041 on: July 26, 2016, 04:38:06 PM »
Hillary is a plant to get Trump elected.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1042 on: July 27, 2016, 07:19:14 PM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-clinton-emails.html?_r=0

You know what?  Fuck America.  Y'all deserve the shit you're in.  You all deserve to have no real choices because the people YOU put in charge want to keep it that way.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

George

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1043 on: July 27, 2016, 07:47:40 PM »
Who are you even talking about?  The Democratic National Committee?  Trump?  The hackers?

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1044 on: July 27, 2016, 08:33:26 PM »
Check out his jaw gnashing. Definitely cocaine. Maybe booze too, you just never know.

Jimson weed and PCP!
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

Rama Set

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1045 on: July 27, 2016, 09:14:03 PM »
Who are you even talking about?  The Democratic National Committee?  Trump?  The hackers?

Can't it be all of them?

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Offline Rushy

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1046 on: July 27, 2016, 10:50:26 PM »
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4uxdbn/im_donald_j_trump_and_im_your_next_president_of/

For anyone interested or that didn't know. This is an "ask me anything" on Reddit for Donald Trump, who will be answering questions in about fifteen minutes. If you're new to Reddit, don't bother making an account. Any account less than thirty days old will be automatically deleted in the comments in order to prevent brigading (which is basically just astroturfing).
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 10:52:25 PM by Rushy »


Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1048 on: July 28, 2016, 04:23:02 PM »
You're making a huge leap of logic. You seem to rely on the claim that nations remain militarised because of some concrete, immediate threat (in this case, you named Russia, but I understand that you probably didn't mean for that to be taken super-literally).

i named russia as an immediate threat to whom?  my thoughts on this are the opposite, that "i don't think russia or china are significant threats to us hegemony or sovereignty, and i don't think that nato's usefulness is at all constrained to deterring russia from europe."  are you conflating me with this post?

NATO, as a whole, needs to maintain a reasonable degree of hard power so that if an immediate threat appears, they don't suddenly scramble to assemble a force. If other nations aren't playing their part in the agreement, the USA has the option of playing World Police and overspending to make up for others' failures (currently the status quo). It also has the option of exerting pressure on other NATO members and demanding that they contribute fairly. Should it choose to do so, and should NATO listen, the option of reducing US military spending is then somewhat more available (although that doesn't mean it would be pursued - I can't read Trump's mind).

i generally agree, and therein lies my issue with what trump said.  the biggest risks are that nato members leave or contribute less (speaking of germany: we don't want them to leave nato.  like, at all.), that we significantly damage our ability to negotiate future agreements in good faith, and that we encourage potential adversaries to adopt a more aggressive posture.  the biggest upside is that maybe some other legislatures will adjust their budgets accordingly, and then maybe when the next budget is passed we can save a few bucks on our own defense spending.  i want a president who is better at risk/reward than that. 

https://www.c-span.org/video/?322386-1/discussion-future-us-military
at 26:50, perkins basically describes that our military's strategic doctrine is premised on making it clear to all potential adversaries that us victory is necessarily guaranteed, and that while doing so prevents/deters conflict, it is obviously much more expensive.  this is the sort of thing that informs my opinion that our military budget is set by our own national priorities, isn't going to change due to nato member spending, and, most importantly, that both hard power and soft power are integral to our operations abroad.

i see things from a slightly different perspective: we have the option to field any size military force we want to and leave any alliances we don't want to support.  we field the largest military force on the planet because it's in our best interest.  we secure europe though the nato alliance because it's in our best interest; and, as rushy rightly points out, this is as much about being in command of the entire military situation in europe as it is about combining arms.  all of that money we spend is money we want to spend because it buys us the things we want.  now, if we can get nato allies to spend some of their cash buying us the shit we want, then that's just gravy.

"Friend or foe?" is one of the few things you really shouldn't get wrong when discussing military operations. Unless it's WW1. Fuck WW1.
again, excluding that one word in that one sentence, i do not think i've described russia as entirely one or the other.  i described our relationship with russia (in comparison with our relations with the dprk) in much more detail than "we're allies," and i even provided quality sources echoing some of the distinctions i made.  if you want me to pick one side or the other, then i think they're more friend than foe.

NATO, the EU, the EEA, Schengen, etc. these are all efforts to solidify countries under strong alliance banners. The current political manifesto is to control countries through alliances and treaties. They haven't been kicked out of NATO because having the US leech their defense capabilities is the primary purpose of the treaty. Once these nations have a military that is verging on falling apart entirely, they'll have to subsume and allow foreign control of their nation. The only nukes in Germany belong to the US. The only nukes in Turkey belong to the US. An ungodly percentage of Europe's entire military belongs to the US. We've been effectively invading and occupying 'allies' for decades.

a little hyperbolic, but otherwise i basically agree.  we have a significant stake in maintaining as much authority as possible over member state militaries.  europe being under a single military and diplomatic roof is good for america. 

This isn't about our budget. I never even once complained that we spend too much yet you continually bring up this straw man.

well, you're on about how shitty it is that these other nations aren't paying their "fair" share.  if it's not about the money, then what is it about?  fairness?

I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

George

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1049 on: July 28, 2016, 05:45:22 PM »
Who are you even talking about?  The Democratic National Committee?  Trump?  The hackers?

Can't it be all of them?

None of them make any sense, though.  We haven't put Trump in charge of anything, we haven't put the hackers in charge of anything, and we haven't put the DNC in charge of anything.  It's ridiculous to look at this clusterfuck and say "haha America you deserve this because you voted for it."

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1050 on: July 28, 2016, 06:05:33 PM »
Who are you even talking about?  The Democratic National Committee?  Trump?  The hackers?

Can't it be all of them?

None of them make any sense, though.  We haven't put Trump in charge of anything, we haven't put the hackers in charge of anything, and we haven't put the DNC in charge of anything.  It's ridiculous to look at this clusterfuck and say "haha America you deserve this because you voted for it."
They did though.  All of them.
It's not JUST this election.  It's not JUST elections in general.  Every survey, every facebook post, every tweet sends a message.  It's datamined and analyzed.  Every vote for an extreme from last year means more of the same next year. 

When the extremes seem like the majority by sheer voice alone, who else do you cater to?
When people complain and speak their minds on issues they know little about, thinking of solutions that are too simple to work, they voice their opinions and with that, those who speak the same thing get their vote.


Politics is just a giant marketing bid and you give out your info all too easy.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline juner

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1051 on: July 29, 2016, 12:48:11 AM »
I bought a MAGA button at the county fair today. Then I made SU wear it.

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Offline Crudblud

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1052 on: July 29, 2016, 01:36:50 PM »
I bought a MAGA button at the county fair today. Then I made SU wear it.
The white cisgender heterosexual male patriarchy in action, folks.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1053 on: July 30, 2016, 03:27:25 PM »
a little hyperbolic, but otherwise i basically agree.  we have a significant stake in maintaining as much authority as possible over member state militaries.  europe being under a single military and diplomatic roof is good for america.

"Good for America" depends quite a lot on what you consider the "good" is. If by good you mean America consolidates an iron fist over the Western world, then yes that's good for America. If by good you mean we protect countries who can't or don't want to do the same for us, then no, it isn't good at all. I'm not a big fan of this new-age colonialism we've invented.

well, you're on about how shitty it is that these other nations aren't paying their "fair" share.  if it's not about the money, then what is it about?  fairness?

This is about not succumbing to the false song of globalism.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1054 on: July 30, 2016, 03:42:21 PM »
So the DNC got hacked.

Days after Trump asked Russia to "find hillary's e-mails".

Russia likes Trump alot.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1055 on: July 30, 2016, 03:47:39 PM »
So the DNC got hacked.

Days after Trump asked Russia to "find hillary's e-mails".

Russia likes Trump alot.
Yes, I bet it was Russia and not a bunch of neckbeards from a *chan who got bored.

Chill with the conspiracy theories, we already know Hillary doesn't know how to use email, it's hardly surprising that some script kiddie would get her.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1056 on: July 30, 2016, 04:28:38 PM »
So the DNC got hacked.

Days after Trump asked Russia to "find hillary's e-mails".

Russia likes Trump alot.
Yes, I bet it was Russia and not a bunch of neckbeards from a *chan who got bored.

Chill with the conspiracy theories, we already know Hillary doesn't know how to use email, it's hardly surprising that some script kiddie would get her.
Meh.  It's certainly possible but the timing is convenient.  *shrug* But whatever.  We'll never know anyway.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline Blanko

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1057 on: July 30, 2016, 04:31:19 PM »
I think you have your timeline mixed up, the DNC hack happened well before Trump's comments on Hillary's deleted emails.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1058 on: July 30, 2016, 05:16:03 PM »
I think you have your timeline mixed up, the DNC hack happened well before Trump's comments on Hillary's deleted emails.
Oh.

Then nevermind.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Rama Set

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #1059 on: July 30, 2016, 05:53:25 PM »
I think you have your timeline mixed up, the DNC hack happened well before Trump's comments on Hillary's deleted emails.

Yeah, Trump asked that after it was reported Russia was likely responsible.