[OrigamiBoy]

Hello all,

I would like to bring back this topic because I believe it has some good arguments. And I would still love an explanation

Bishop Tom mention that GPS is really only eLORAN signals, but that still does not explain how Satellite Phones work. These phones communicate with large satellites, orbiting around 20000 miles above the earth, and provide reception pretty much everywhere, even the north and south poles. One of the satellites that manage calls on these phones is called Iridium(you can do some research on it if you would like). These phones are commonly used when cell towers are knocked out and work perfectly as described. eLORAN has nothing to do with satellite phones so it cannot be used as an excuse.

Thanks for all your help

[rumpelstilskin]

See also: why do sat phones and gps work in the middle of the Australian desert or in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, where no other land-based communication works?

[Roger G]

Iridium satellites are visible crossing the sky as they orbit over at precisely predicted times which are available from a number of observer sites for those that want to see for themselves. They are also responsible for the well documented and time predicted 'Iridium Flares' which are reflections of the suns rays once it has sunk below the horizon from the large solar panels on the satellites. Just google 'Iridium Satellite'

Roger

[OrigamiBoy]

See also: why do sat phones and gps work in the middle of the Australian desert or in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, where no other land-based communication works?

Thats the thing, they can't. I believe this is the reason why neither junker or Tom Bishop has addressed this topic yet. I personally think the flat-earthers should try to change their mindsets(for lack of a better word). I actually am willing to fight for a possible flat planet. And I do believe a flat planet can exist... just not this planet. You see, a round earth isn't a scientific theory, it's a true and proven fact. Our planet is not flat, but a flat planet can exist in some universe. Thats the thing I love about GPS, satellites, and the ISS, It's really hard to disprove because so many people use it and never experience it not working.

[Scroogie]

That's the thing I love about GPS, satellites, and the ISS, It's really hard to disprove because so many people use it and never experience it not working.

Yes, and one who has admitted to using GPS is Tom Bishop. He (essentially) professes not to believe in it, yet uses it, and successfully.

[OrigamiBoy]

That's the thing I love about GPS, satellites, and the ISS, It's really hard to disprove because so many people use it and never experience it not working.

Yes, and one who has admitted to using GPS is Tom Bishop. He (essentially) professes not to believe in it, yet uses it, and successfully.

Yes, and I'd love to see him or junker provide some insight in this topic.

[OrigamiBoy]

Just google "Iridium Flare" and you will find tons of pictures like these produced by tons of normal people, not NASA.

[Rounder]

Or you could go one better and capture your own.
http://www.heavens-above.com/IridiumFlares.aspx

[OrigamiBoy]

Sorry to revive this thread, but i would still love a good answer .

[AATW]

Sorry to revive this thread, but i would still love a good answer .

You won't get one, sadly. They can't answer it, because Earth isn't flat.

I joined this board because I am genuinely fascinated by the Flat Earth Society. The very idea that such a thing exists now is interesting. A sad reflection on the post-truth world we find ourselves in but interesting none-the-less.

So I wanted to see what arguments were being put forward in favour of a flat earth. The answer seems to be there aren't any.
They just stubbornly stick to assertions made in a book written in Victorian times - things like "perspective makes things disappear below the horizon".
They keep repeating this lie despite a complete inability to explain how that would work on a flat plane or photographic demonstrations of it.
I don't know what they think is so special about this book anyway. Proclamations from it are treated as Gospel.

There isn't even an agreed map of a flat earth. There is no way sunsets can happen, no explanation of how clouds can be lit from below.
I posted a picture to demonstrate that in another thread. Ignored.
I've pointed out how perspective actually works several times. Ignored.
I posted a video of a sailing boat slowly disappearing over the horizon and no amount of optical zoom will "restore" it. Ignored.

Every debate on here goes the same way. Flat Earthers asked to explain something. They basically can't so after a bit of back and forth and being presented with facts which can't be explained any other way than on a round earth they run away. Facts just bounce off them.

[juner]

Sorry to revive this thread, but i would still love a good answer .

You won't get one, sadly. They can't answer it, because Earth isn't flat.

Refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. Warned.

[JohnAdams1145]

So I've read up on satellites, and the general explanation by FEers is that they orbit in circles above the Earth. Only satellites in polar orbits would violate the FE theory. Geostationary and geosynchronous satellites cannot be in polar orbits. Therefore the notion of a satellite phone would still work. Of course, admitting the existence of satellites is a huge problem for FE, because that means they can also take pictures of a clearly spherical Earth.

Satellite phones can be hand-waved by introducing implausibly high signal-to-noise ratio links that operate by bouncing signals off the "firmament" or ionosphere. Unfortunately, those don't explain why if you point a telescope at the satellites you can see solar panels and other junk on them. If commercial satellites can be launched, as they are observed to be via telescopes, then why is there so much effort to discount and attack the pictures some take as fake?

I honestly think that the FE Society should raise some money to launch a CubeSat into space with hardened electronics, a rudimentary inertial navigation system to roughly detect altitude and location, and a camera of their choosing. You can use hardware security modules and some circuits to detect tampering with a clear chain of custody up to the launch company. It's not ridiculously expensive, and this should settle the debate once and for all.

[ShowmetheProof]

I honestly think that the FE Society should raise some money to launch a CubeSat into space with hardened electronics, a rudimentary inertial navigation system to roughly detect altitude and location, and a camera of their choosing. You can use hardware security modules and some circuits to detect tampering with a clear chain of custody up to the launch company. It's not ridiculously expensive, and this should settle the debate once and for all.

It has been suggested before, but I've never heard of them approving the idea and doing it.

[AATW]

I honestly think that the FE Society should raise some money to launch a CubeSat into space with hardened electronics, a rudimentary inertial navigation system to roughly detect altitude and location, and a camera of their choosing. You can use hardware security modules and some circuits to detect tampering with a clear chain of custody up to the launch company. It's not ridiculously expensive, and this should settle the debate once and for all.

If that happened and the curve was revealed they would find some way to explain it away and declare themselves right after all.
Probably using perspective which they repeatedly show they don't understand.
There's no helping some people.

[OrigamiBoy]

So I've read up on satellites, and the general explanation by FEers is that they orbit in circles above the Earth. Only satellites in polar orbits would violate the FE theory. Geostationary and geosynchronous satellites cannot be in polar orbits. Therefore the notion of a satellite phone would still work. Of course, admitting the existence of satellites is a huge problem for FE, because that means they can also take pictures of a clearly spherical Earth.

Satellite phones can be hand-waved by introducing implausibly high signal-to-noise ratio links that operate by bouncing signals off the "firmament" or ionosphere. Unfortunately, those don't explain why if you point a telescope at the satellites you can see solar panels and other junk on them. If commercial satellites can be launched, as they are observed to be via telescopes, then why is there so much effort to discount and attack the pictures some take as fake?

I honestly think that the FE Society should raise some money to launch a CubeSat into space with hardened electronics, a rudimentary inertial navigation system to roughly detect altitude and location, and a camera of their choosing. You can use hardware security modules and some circuits to detect tampering with a clear chain of custody up to the launch company. It's not ridiculously expensive, and this should settle the debate once and for all.

The only problem with their idea of the satellites "orbiting in circles" is that there is no way for them to stay up. In RE there is gravity, but of course, the FEs don't believe in gravity. I guess if they do believe in this theory they will say it is some UA dark matter mumbo jumbo.

I honestly think that the FE Society should raise some money to launch a CubeSat into space with hardened electronics, a rudimentary inertial navigation system to roughly detect altitude and location, and a camera of their choosing. You can use hardware security modules and some circuits to detect tampering with a clear chain of custody up to the launch company. It's not ridiculously expensive, and this should settle the debate once and for all.

If that happened and the curve was revealed they would find some way to explain it away and declare themselves right after all.
Probably using perspective which they repeatedly show they don't understand.
There's no helping some people.

It's not because they cant afford to try to raise money for it, its because they don't want to launch it. They don't want real evidence the earth is round. They don't want something we can always refer to prove them wrong...

Either that or this entire site is just a big prank on the REs

[AATW]

It's not because they cant afford to try to raise money for it, its because they don't want to launch it. They don't want real evidence the earth is round. They don't want something we can always refer to prove them wrong...

The weird thing is that when proof is shown. Absolute, irrefutable proof. They just ignore it. Look at this thread.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6926.msg125612#msg125612

Plenty of amateur videos showing the round earth, one is over 2 hours long and is uncut from start to finish. 3DGeek does some excellent analysis of it, shows photos of the balloon being launched, shows screen grabs showing flat lines to show no lens distortion at ground level and then the curve when at the right altitude. No flat earthers have responded at all. They haven't even bothered to shout "FAKE!" which is their usual tactic. Nothing.

Either that or this entire site is just a big prank on the REs

Ha. I am starting to wonder about that!

[JohnAdams1145]

The weird thing is that when proof is shown. Absolute, irrefutable proof. They just ignore it. Look at this thread.

We can irrefutably prove the existence of gravity, satellites, the Space Shuttle, rockets, etc. The fact is that there are thousands of irrefutable ways to prove that the Earth is round, from radio waves to satellites to gyroscopes to airplanes to ships to tall buildings to the Sun and Moon. I could essay a hundred-page treatise detailing the ways we know that the Earth is round, and I wouldn't scratch the surface of the corpus of irrefutable proofs. Anyone who truly understands basic mechanics can see why these are irrefutable.

That being said, I don't think that we should demonize FE believers for not agreeing with us on this issue. While the plethora of evidence seems obvious to us Round Earthers, keep in mind that cognitive biases such as the Dunning-Kruger effect and confirmation bias can make understanding the evidence hard. Add in an incorrect physics education, and you have a complete disaster. The fact remains that many Flat Earthers don't understand the basics of spherical geometry (believe me this stuff is hard) and physics. It's not nice or productive to condescendingly insult their intelligence or knowledge; instead, we should patiently explain these basics and use them to logically conclude the Earth is round.

On the flip side, I believe that Flat Earthers are not doing enough inquiry. Instead of just blindly dismissing a convoluted science/math explanation by pushing a few buzzwords or listing seemingly intuitive "contradictions", Flat Earthers should seek to understand what us Round Earthers are trying to say. If you believe you see a contradiction in any physics/math, instead of saying "X proves that you're WRONG. Checkmate I win!" you should ask "why don't X and Y contradict one another?" and the answer will almost always be (excepting honest mistakes) "Oh! Perhaps I didn't explain it clearly. Here's why..." The facts still remain. Round Earthers are right. If you don't understand why the vast majority of people and scientists believe the Earth is round, instead of trying to find holes in the explanations offered using rudimentary physics, you should find out what's wrong with your assumptions/knowledge. This way, everybody learns something. As many students know, one of the best ways to learn is to teach.

[OrigamiBoy]

Ha. you gotta love that not a single FEer has commented on this topic... Still waiting

[juner]

Ha. you gotta love that not a single FEer has commented on this topic... Still waiting

There is no reason to bump a thread just to complain that no one is replying how you want.

Since you already have 3 warnings, have a 3-day break to review the rules.