[Rama Set]

The horizon is not at eye-level, except perhaps if you are lying on your belly. This can be verified with any theodolite. #basicperspective

[Mark_1984]

As it happens, I’m taking a flight today. I shall pay careful attention to the horizon when we’re at 40000 feet.

[Mark_1984]

In which case, I should be able to see it 24 hours a day, or at least, it would stay above the horizon but get dimmer. 

Here you go:

Increasing your altitude changes your perspective lines and allows you to see more distant lands. It will take a further amount of land to reach the Vanishing Point.

This is why it would take longer for the sun to set while you are at higher altitudes, and why the sun can be restored by rapidly increasing your altitude immediately after sunset.

Technically the explanation for why the sun sets at higher altitudes is also "waves," and whatnot. The perspective lines meet at the horizon and are perfect, but the surface of the earth is not perfect. Any slight increase  in height near the Vanishing Point will allow something to disappear further behind it, much like a dime can obscure an elephant.

I won't be around any longer. I assure you that you can do some simple searches to find answers to your queries.

Tom Bishop with the mic drop. lol

Tom, before you depart, can you maybe post a diagram of perspectives at different heights for future reference?

The Wiki gives a description of the presumed effect, but it doesn’t give an explanation. Perhaps a diagram would help us understand.

[Curious Squirrel]

The horizon is not at eye-level, except perhaps if you are lying on your belly. This can be verified with any theodolite. #basicperspective

Tom (via Rowbotham) claims theodolites are inaccurate. I've already expressed my opinion on his 'experiments' but to be helpful I'll quote it here once again.

His entire claim rests on the supposition that the human eye unaided has greater visual acuity than an instrument developed to increase the acuity of the eye. He gives no information on the claimed difference between the theodolites, he tested it upon one circumstance, and his conclusion of the experiment about the post viewed at length is erroneous. He assumes the distance to be flat rather than level when drawing it. In all, his experiments upon it have no documentation, and are poorly executed and barely documented, with a clear bias. In summary, they prove nothing and should be thrown out. So unless you have something better documented you have nothing to stand on in your attempt to claim theodolites are inaccurate.

[Rama Set]

And obviously theodolites from the 1850s are identical to the theodolites of today.

[Mark_1984]

As it happens, I’m taking a flight today. I shall pay careful attention to the horizon when we’re at 40000 feet.

Sadly it was cloudy all flight. I shall try again on the way back in a few days

[Mark_1984]

Just to recap on some unanswered questions. 
We’re waiting for a diagram showing how perspective changes with height.
Proof the the horizon is always at eye level.
Why we have a sunset when the sun radiates in all directions
Why the sun sets below the horizon when it never drops below the plane.

Over to you Tom ?

[Tom Bishop]

Read Earth Not a Globe for diagrams of perspective and for further information.

[Mark_1984]

Read Earth Not a Globe for diagrams of perspective and for further information.

Looked there, the explanation is flawed.  E.g.  it refers to a row of lamp posts diminishing as they get further away.  True, but on a plane they get closer and closer to the horizon, but never actually touch it.  The sun, on the other hand, clearly drops below the horizon. 
If you do some simple trigonometry, you could work out the lowest angle the sun gets to.

[3DGeek]

Read Earth Not a Globe for diagrams of perspective and for further information.

Looked there, the explanation is flawed.  E.g.  it refers to a row of lamp posts diminishing as they get further away.  True, but on a plane they get closer and closer to the horizon, but never actually touch it.  The sun, on the other hand, clearly drops below the horizon. 
If you do some simple trigonometry, you could work out the lowest angle the sun gets to.

The diagram is flawed in one VERY important way.

It shows the "perspective view" of the lamp posts with the posts getting shorter - but still equally spaced from left to right.  That is NOT how things look in perspective.



Notice that while the columns get shorter - the also get closer together.  That's because perspective works not just in left-right and up-down - but also in the near-far direction.

Failure to understand this crucial point underpins 99% of the ridiculous things that FE'ers say about perspective - and just about every diagram they post contains the same stupid mistake.

Fix that brain-glitch and they lose their beloved "magic perspective" and everything falls apart for them.

[3DGeek]

Incidentally - that same problem is the visual analog to the math problem about how parallel lines meet at infinity in perspective.

As the rail tracks get closer and closer together horizontally - the railroad ties get closer and closer in near/far.  The closer the rails become, the closer the ties become - and when the rails TOUCH, the ties also TOUCH.   Now think about how many railroad ties there must be if they are touching in the near/far direction.

If the spacing of the ties is literally zero - then the number of ties per millimeter in the image goes to infinity.   Since the ties are equally spaced - that can only happen if the rails also meet after an infinite number of ties have been drawn.   Hence, parallel railroad tracks meet at infinity.

If they met (horizontally) at some shorter distance from the eye - then they wouldn't have "met" in the near/far direction because a less-than-infinite number of railroad ties would have been there - so the distance between them couldn't have shrunk to zero.

This is a mental image of why this would happen - but the math says the exact same thing.

[Mark_1984]

exactly, and no matter how many pillars there are, the top of the pillar will always be above the bottom.  I can't imagine even a flat earth believer would argue that point.
However, according to the flat earth books, the sun suddenly appears below the horizon, which is the same as saying the pillars suddenly appear upside down.

[TomInAustin]

Read Earth Not a Globe for diagrams of perspective and for further information.

I did read that book.  It's total BS.   How can you continue to rely on it?

[Tom Bishop]

Read Earth Not a Globe for diagrams of perspective and for further information.

Looked there, the explanation is flawed.  E.g.  it refers to a row of lamp posts diminishing as they get further away.  True, but on a plane they get closer and closer to the horizon, but never actually touch it.  The sun, on the other hand, clearly drops below the horizon. 
If you do some simple trigonometry, you could work out the lowest angle the sun gets to.

The diagram is flawed in one VERY important way.

It shows the "perspective view" of the lamp posts with the posts getting shorter - but still equally spaced from left to right.  That is NOT how things look in perspective.

http://www.virtourist.com/europe/italy/bologna/imatges/13.jpg

Notice that while the columns get shorter - the also get closer together.  That's because perspective works not just in left-right and up-down - but also in the near-far direction.

Failure to understand this crucial point underpins 99% of the ridiculous things that FE'ers say about perspective - and just about every diagram they post contains the same stupid mistake.

Fix that brain-glitch and they lose their beloved "magic perspective" and everything falls apart for them.

The lamp posts are not equally spaced. Why are you so dishonest in your arguments?

[Mark_1984]

That’s not the key point Tom. The key point is that the top of the lamp post is always above the bottom of it. Or do you disagree ?

[3DGeek]

Read Earth Not a Globe for diagrams of perspective and for further information.

Looked there, the explanation is flawed.  E.g.  it refers to a row of lamp posts diminishing as they get further away.  True, but on a plane they get closer and closer to the horizon, but never actually touch it.  The sun, on the other hand, clearly drops below the horizon. 
If you do some simple trigonometry, you could work out the lowest angle the sun gets to.

The diagram is flawed in one VERY important way.

It shows the "perspective view" of the lamp posts with the posts getting shorter - but still equally spaced from left to right.  That is NOT how things look in perspective.

http://www.virtourist.com/europe/italy/bologna/imatges/13.jpg

Notice that while the columns get shorter - the also get closer together.  That's because perspective works not just in left-right and up-down - but also in the near-far direction.

Failure to understand this crucial point underpins 99% of the ridiculous things that FE'ers say about perspective - and just about every diagram they post contains the same stupid mistake.

Fix that brain-glitch and they lose their beloved "magic perspective" and everything falls apart for them.

The lamp posts are not equally spaced. Why are you so dishonest in your arguments?

Perhaps not *EXACTLY* but in reality - when they posts are half as tall, they are spaced at half the distance - that diagram completely mis-represents that undoubted fact.   Photos' don't lie - your diagram does.

[Flatround]

May I make a suggestion to anyone trying to disprove FET to Tom Bishop?

Advice: Quit now. You could put him into a rocket ship and send him to outer space with a camera and he would come back with pictures of a round earth in his hands and claim its still fake somehow...just give up...the guy can not even conceed that facts are facts..when you cant agree that 2+2 is 4, you will never convince a moron that 2 FErs plus 2 FErs equal 4 Idiots.

[juner]

May I make a suggestion to anyone trying to disprove FET to Tom Bishop?

Advice: Quit now. You could put him into a rocket ship and send him to outer space with a camera and he would come back with pictures of a round earth in his hands and claim its still fake somehow...just give up...the guy can not even conceed that facts are facts..when you cant agree that 2+2 is 4, you will never convince a moron that 2 FErs plus 2 FErs equal 4 Idiots.

Refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. Warned.

[douglips]

Mark_1984 - see also my photos of a sunset during a flight.
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=7038.msg126919#msg126919

[Mora]

"Perspective in the graphic arts is an approximate representation, generally on a flat surface, of an image as it is seen by the eye." I.e., you don't actually see in point perspective. It is a technique for artists to represent a three dimensional reality on a two dimensional surface, whether it be a canvas or a computer screen, to give the illusion of three dimensions. If we really did see in point perspective, I suspect you'd be citing from some sort of ophthalmology text book rather than a coloring book and video games.