The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Ohitstarik on September 29, 2017, 10:44:48 PM
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In a flat earth, orbit isnt possible, so how does GPS work?
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I would suggest reading the wiki and FAQ.
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So to make sure i'm understanding gravity correctly.. we're always accelerating upwards at 9.8m/s? how does that explain different amounts of gravity at different points on the earth though? the wiki answers this with tidal effects, since stars have "gravity", but the wiki itself said that gravity wasnt real since you needed to have a round shape pulling everything uniformly to the center. So..? how does all of this work? is gravity real or not?
andddd if we've been accelerating at 9.8m/s^2 since beginning of time.. shouldnt have we accelerated to the speed of light at this point? I know that things with matter cant reach the speed of light, so at some point we would have to have stopped accelerating at 9.8m/s^2, which would, you know, stop us from having "weight".
there's also nothing about GPS. https://wiki.tfes.org/GPS_and_Sat-Nav
Reading through the wiki and got some questions stuck in my head. Hopefully someone helps clear all this up :).
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Acceleration has nothing to do with this thread.
And no, we would not have accelerated to the speed of light. You can undergo constant acceleration forever and asymptotically approach light speed but never reach it.
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Yeah see, if you're at 99.9999% the speed of light, you cant just keep accelerating at 9.8m/s^2. Every second that passed, you would have to add 9.8m/s to your total speed, which.. you know, increases your speed, and would one day hit 299792458 m/s.
you dont get to 299792457.999999999999 and keep adding .000000009 (or w.e.) m/s of velocity, because if you did then you wouldnt be accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2 anymore, correct? Also, if you're asymptotically accelerating, that means your acceleration curve isnt linear, so you're not always accelerating at 9.8m/s. right?
Also, what about the GPS stuff? And the gravity of other planets? You seem to have been here for a while so I appreciate all of the help!
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Yeah see, if you're at 99.9999% the speed of light, you cant just keep accelerating at 9.8m/s^2. Every second that passed, you would have to add 9.8m/s to your total speed, which.. you know, increases your speed, and would one day hit 299792458 m/s.
you dont get to 299792457.999999999999 and keep adding .000000009 (or w.e.) m/s of velocity, because if you did then you wouldnt be accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2 anymore, correct? Also, if you're asymptotically accelerating, that means your acceleration curve isnt linear, so you're not always accelerating at 9.8m/s. right?
Yeah see, that isn't how it works. You are applying classical mechanics to a scenario that requires Special Relativity. I would suggest looking into how acceleration works in SR.
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Search the forums if the question is not answered elsewhere.
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They can be right about this Ohitstarik. The speed of light is only relevant when you are observing something else moving relative you yourself. If it's you that's moving, the speed of light is equivalent to infinity and you will never get there.
Another way of putting it:
An object with mass can never reach the speed of light. Fact.
Therefore an object with mass can constantly accelerate and never reach the speed of light. Because it is a known fact that it can't.
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Yeah see, if you're at 99.9999% the speed of light, you cant just keep accelerating at 9.8m/s^2. Every second that passed, you would have to add 9.8m/s to your total speed, which.. you know, increases your speed, and would one day hit 299792458 m/s.
you dont get to 299792457.999999999999 and keep adding .000000009 (or w.e.) m/s of velocity, because if you did then you wouldnt be accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2 anymore, correct? Also, if you're asymptotically accelerating, that means your acceleration curve isnt linear, so you're not always accelerating at 9.8m/s. right?
You're failing to understand special relativity - from YOUR perspective on the Earth, you cannot tell by any means how fast you're going - so you can always go another 9.8 m/s faster in the next second. It's a fundamental tenet of relativity.
From the perspective of some hypothetical being off to the side of the world, watching it fly by - there would be a problem with adding 9.8 m/s of speed every second - because the world would soon be moving faster than light - which is not allowed.
What THEY see is that as the earth moves faster and faster, so we get this weird phenomenon of "time dilation". It appears to our observer as if time itself is slowing down on the Earth...everyone's clocks are going slower and slower - their heartbeats slow down - chemical reactions go slower. EVERYTHING S-L--O---W----S------D----------O-----------W------------------N.
And that solves the problem. From our perspective, we do gain 9.8m/s every second - but from the outside observer's perspective, those seconds are happening less and less frequently.
That slowing of time is what prevents the earth from EVER reaching the speed of light. It's like one day we're going at 99% of lightspeed, the next day we're at 99.9% but our clocks are running 10x slower so after the next day (on earth) we're only at 99.99% and the clocks are running 100x slower the next day 99.999% and 1000x slower...then....
So we happily believe we're accelerating without limits and because we can't see beyond the little bubble of our skies - our actual speed is indeterminate...it might as well be zero...so this can go on forever.
From the point of view of an "outsider" the clocks on Earth are almost at a standstill - they tick only once every trillion years maybe. Speed is still getting closer to lightspeed - but the pace of that acceleration has slowed to an almost complete standstill.
In the "real" universe, this would soon become problematic because with our clocks ticking so slowly from an outsider perspective - the "heat death" of the universe would happen before we here on Earth could have breakfast.
But as far as the FE'ers are concerned, our little bubble of life is all that there is in some infinite void of nothingness...there is nothing in the outside universe to come to an end.
Fortunately - this bleak picture is complete hogwash because they can't explain simple stuff like how the moon looks from three different perspectives or how sunsets, tides or a bunch of other things can happen...but that's another thread.
The bottom line (from a committed RE'er) is that you CANNOT defeat UA on the basis of lightspeed limits.
You CAN, however demonstrate that it would take an infinite amount of energy to make it work - and that it doesn't explain variable gravity or the tides.
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Now that acceleration has been covered, can everyone get back on topic if they're going to post in this thread (me included).
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Now that acceleration has been covered, can everyone get back on topic if they're going to post in this thread (me included).
Sure thing.
The most frequent solutions I see cited are: 1) Cell phone towers are actually the source. 2) Small satellite type objects floating high in the sky via weather balloon. 3) Stratellites, that just somehow float? I've seen this one, but never a good explanation. I think it's tied to balloons though still. 4) Some combination of the above.
As with most of FE it's a small banquet, and you get to pick and choose your own entree, and perhaps a side.
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infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing
Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!
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infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing
Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!
There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?
NOPE
4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
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infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing
Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!
There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?
NOPE
4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
GPS uses satellites. known and understood. See documentation.
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infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing
Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!
There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?
NOPE
4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
GPS uses satellites. known and understood. See documentation.
What about gravity? Satellites would fall back to earth like everything else does then stick to the surface like water and peoples. See documentation and facts.
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infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing
Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!
There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?
NOPE
4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
GPS uses satellites. known and understood. See documentation.
What about gravity? Satellites would fall back to earth like everything else does then stick to the surface like water and peoples. See documentation and facts.
TV ones stay in position.
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infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing
Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!
There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?
NOPE
4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
GPS uses satellites. known and understood. See documentation.
What about gravity? Satellites would fall back to earth like everything else does then stick to the surface like water and peoples. See documentation and facts.
TV ones stay in position.
So they defy gravity? Now I'm confused, maybe there is no gravity like Flat Earthers have been saying? How could one defy something so powerful that holds the oceans to the surface of the planet spinning 1,000 MPH. This is just obsurd. I think you've proven there is no gravity, now what holds the water down? I get it the Earth is Flat and water is heavier than the air, so it falls. Density thang.
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Defying Gravity is all CGI
That rhymes.
When you watch this video, think ISS, yes this CGI fakery is pretty good and the earth moon pics are superb huh? You believe the ISS under water green screen but not this video? Just because they tell you it's fake. The ISS is fake momo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P6zDPExcZE
Satellites don't defy gravity and hover over the earth motionless, it's all an illusion and people buy it. TV signals can be delivered off towers or bounced off the dome.
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I'll add to this post. Forget satellites, they are dreams. When you go buy expensive GPS systems for say construction one thing is always prevalent and that is this REMOTE station that runs on POWER at your job site or in the remote woods MUST be able to talk to the BASE station to get accurate positions. The satellite links is ridiculous, earth moving, 4 satellites moving and some chipset is going to give you a very accurate position from moving parts...hah dreams of my father
No it's called remote antenna position, home base and repeaters or towers. Done and done simple, no defying density
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Defying Gravity is all CGI
That rhymes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P6zDPExcZE
Satellites don't defy gravity and hover over the earth motionless, it's all an illusion and people buy it. TV signals can be delivered off towers or bounced off the dome.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'll add to this post. Forget satellites, they are dreams. When you go buy expensive GPS systems for say construction one thing is always prevalent and that is this REMOTE station that runs on POWER at your job site or in the remote woods MUST be able to talk to the BASE station to get accurate positions. The satellite links is ridiculous, earth moving, 4 satellites moving and some chipset is going to give you a very accurate position from moving parts...hah dreams of my father
No it's called remote antenna position, home base and repeaters or towers. Done and done simple, no defying density
And navigation in the middle of an ocean?
And tv dish angles prove satellites.
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Defying Gravity is all CGI
That rhymes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P6zDPExcZE
Satellites don't defy gravity and hover over the earth motionless, it's all an illusion and people buy it. TV signals can be delivered off towers or bounced off the dome.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'll add to this post. Forget satellites, they are dreams. When you go buy expensive GPS systems for say construction one thing is always prevalent and that is this REMOTE station that runs on POWER at your job site or in the remote woods MUST be able to talk to the BASE station to get accurate positions. The satellite links is ridiculous, earth moving, 4 satellites moving and some chipset is going to give you a very accurate position from moving parts...hah dreams of my father
No it's called remote antenna position, home base and repeaters or towers. Done and done simple, no defying density
And navigation in the middle of an ocean?
And tv dish angles prove satellites.
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog160/node/1926
Dude you're so gullible. Read the provided link. Surveyors used "Fixed" positions and now wait for it...........
The "STARS"
Dem things GOD put up there to GPS ones self. Go Figure.
OMG Dish Network is looking at a moving satellite to give me grainy reception....duh I'm changing my avatar just for you son, enjoy the Victory
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Defying Gravity is all CGI
That rhymes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P6zDPExcZE
Satellites don't defy gravity and hover over the earth motionless, it's all an illusion and people buy it. TV signals can be delivered off towers or bounced off the dome.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'll add to this post. Forget satellites, they are dreams. When you go buy expensive GPS systems for say construction one thing is always prevalent and that is this REMOTE station that runs on POWER at your job site or in the remote woods MUST be able to talk to the BASE station to get accurate positions. The satellite links is ridiculous, earth moving, 4 satellites moving and some chipset is going to give you a very accurate position from moving parts...hah dreams of my father
No it's called remote antenna position, home base and repeaters or towers. Done and done simple, no defying density
And navigation in the middle of an ocean?
And tv dish angles prove satellites.
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog160/node/1926
Dude you're so gullible. Read the provided link. Surveyors used "Fixed" positions and now wait for it...........
The "STARS"
Dem things GOD put up there to GPS ones self. Go Figure.
OMG Dish Network is looking at a moving satellite to give me grainy reception....duh
GPS receiver in my phone is showing 17 satellites, where are they? A TV satellite is stationary relative to earth. As you know.
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Defying Gravity is all CGI
That rhymes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P6zDPExcZE
Satellites don't defy gravity and hover over the earth motionless, it's all an illusion and people buy it. TV signals can be delivered off towers or bounced off the dome.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'll add to this post. Forget satellites, they are dreams. When you go buy expensive GPS systems for say construction one thing is always prevalent and that is this REMOTE station that runs on POWER at your job site or in the remote woods MUST be able to talk to the BASE station to get accurate positions. The satellite links is ridiculous, earth moving, 4 satellites moving and some chipset is going to give you a very accurate position from moving parts...hah dreams of my father
No it's called remote antenna position, home base and repeaters or towers. Done and done simple, no defying density
And navigation in the middle of an ocean?
And tv dish angles prove satellites.
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog160/node/1926
Dude you're so gullible. Read the provided link. Surveyors used "Fixed" positions and now wait for it...........
The "STARS"
Dem things GOD put up there to GPS ones self. Go Figure.
OMG Dish Network is looking at a moving satellite to give me grainy reception....duh
GPS receiver in my phone is showing 17 satellites, where are they? A TV satellite is stationary relative to earth. As you know.
Actually I don't know..Is someone at NASA or the ISS astronuts holding the satellite via a string?
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https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog160/node/1926
Dude you're so gullible. Read the provided link. Surveyors used "Fixed" positions and now wait for it...........
The "STARS"
J-Man, did you read that page or just look for a couple of words that made you feel better about your FE belief? This seems to be a common theme that I've seen. I found something that kind of says something like I believe, or some other shallow relationship as best. But as long as you can point to, well, something, then yeah me, I won the argument.
Since you are entering the article as evidence, I assume you accept as truth.
If you read the article, it describes the techniques of surveying as it existed pre GPS, and says that they are still in use. Still in use, doesn't mean it is exclusively used, and that GPS doesn't exist. Automatic transmissions have largely replaced standard transmissions. But if you find a car with a stick shift, it doesn't mean that automatic transmissions don't exist.
Anyway, since we are accepting the article as evidence, I'll quote some excerpts from the page, with some commentary.
The techniques and tools of conventional surveying are still in use and, as you will see, are based on the very same concepts that underpin even the most advanced satellite-based positioning.
Clearly saying that satellite based GPS exists.
Geographic positions are specified relative to a fixed reference. Positions on the globe, for instance, may be specified in terms of angles relative to the center of the Earth, the equator, and the prime meridian.
Nice globe reference.
Nowadays, geodesists produce extremely precise positional data by analyzing radio waves emitted by distant stars.
Pretty sure those radio waves aren't all coming from lights on a dome over the Earth.
Before survey-grade satellite positioning was available, the most common technique for conducting control surveys was triangulation
Having read this chapter so far, you have already been introduced to a practical application of trilateration, since it is the technique behind satellite ranging used in GPS.
You have seen an example of trilateration in Figure 5.8 in the form of 3-dimensional spheres extending from orbiting satellites. Demo 1 below steps through this process in two dimensions.
Two more references to ranging from satellites.
The reference to "Figure 5.8" is to another web page in that series of articles that describes GPS. It shows some details of the satellite orbits around the globe and describes how signals from multiple satellites are used to identify your position on the (round) globe. Have a look for yourself. https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog160/node/1923 (https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog160/node/1923)
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There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?
NOPE
4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
I don't think anyone denies that balloons are launched. Where is your proof that they are the source of GPS? There isn't any.
This is the logic you are using: GPS works. I don't believe in satellites, but GPS works. So there must be something else up there. Balloons are up there, GPS works. Therefore, GPS uses balloons. Now I've answered something, time to move on and not think about it too long.
It's ridiculous on so many levels.
1: The triangulation (actually trilateration) used requires the source of the signal to be in a known position. Not a fixed position, but a known one. This works for satellites. Not for balloons that are subject to moving with the wind.
2: If balloons were the source, the math wouldn't match satellite orbits. So Garmin, Magellan, Apple, Google, and everyone in the world writing software for GPS receivers would have to be part of your alleged global conspiracy.
3: GPS was created by and for the U.S. military. It is used to fix exact locations for ships, planes, bombs, tanks, missiles, etc. Do you think that system would be dependent on balloon launches? Sure, if we every had to go to war with the Soviet Union, the first step would have been to send a bunch of guys over there to launch balloons first. Right.
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There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?
NOPE
4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
I don't think anyone denies that balloons are launched. Where is your proof that they are the source of GPS? There isn't any.
This is the logic you are using: GPS works. I don't believe in satellites, but GPS works. So there must be something else up there. Balloons are up there, GPS works. Therefore, GPS uses balloons. Now I've answered something, time to move on and not think about it too long.
It's ridiculous on so many levels.
1: The triangulation (actually trilateration) used requires the source of the signal to be in a known position. Not a fixed position, but a known one. This works for satellites. Not for balloons that are subject to moving with the wind.
2: If balloons were the source, the math wouldn't match satellite orbits. So Garmin, Magellan, Apple, Google, and everyone in the world writing software for GPS receivers would have to be part of your alleged global conspiracy.
3: GPS was created by and for the U.S. military. It is used to fix exact locations for ships, planes, bombs, tanks, missiles, etc. Do you think that system would be dependent on balloon launches? Sure, if we every had to go to war with the Soviet Union, the first step would have been to send a bunch of guys over there to launch balloons first. Right.
Balloons can't explain GPS unless the software for GPS receivers is written by people inside the conspiracy.
Take a look at this (to pick just one of a bunch of similar projects):
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/swiftnav/piksi-the-rtk-gps-receiver
This is a project to provide GPS tracking for hobbyist drone pilots. Notice that it says that the software is "OpenSourced" - meaning that you, me, or anyone else can download it from https://github.com/swift-nav/piksi_firmware - you can read the software, change it and use it.
"From the start, we wanted Piksi to be an indispensable tool for GPS experimentation. Whether you want to test out a new algorithm, receive signals from new constellations, more closely integrate and tune your receiver for your application, or teach yourself about GPS, Piksi gives you the flexibility, power, and transparency to do it."
There is absolutely NO way for a conspiracy to hide the way GPS works.
So it simply CANNOT BE that the GPS system is implemented with balloons or fixed stations (I believe that's what Tom claims - saying it's like LORAN, which is the predecessor to GPS that did indeed use fixed stations).
A conspiracy can only extend so far - and in this case, it simply CANNOT hide a system that uses anything other than satellites without making it obvious to anyone who has the interest to check it out.
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You CAN, however demonstrate that it would take an infinite amount of energy to make it work - and that it doesn't explain variable gravity or the tides.
Nor it does not explain "Cavendish experiment".
Does it mean that Universal Acceleration does not fit the observation? And, what is more troubling, goes against logic requiring infinite energy to constantly accelerate massive objects?
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You CAN, however demonstrate that it would take an infinite amount of energy to make it work - and that it doesn't explain variable gravity or the tides.
Nor it does not explain "Cavendish experiment".
Does it mean that Universal Acceleration does not fit the observation? And, what is more troubling, goes against logic requiring infinite energy to constantly accelerate massive objects?
Please refrain from derailing the topic further. Acceleration has nothing to do with the OP.
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infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing
Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!
There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?
NOPE
4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
GPS uses satellites. known and understood. See documentation.
What about gravity? Satellites would fall back to earth like everything else does then stick to the surface like water and peoples. See documentation and facts.
I'd be happy to explain how orbits work!
Orbits work quite well by, you know, going around the earth. The misconception that sattelites do not experience gravity is false.
Sattelites have forward velocity. this is always tangential to their current orbit position. The only thing keeping them in a curve is gravity itself pulling satellites back in to the center of the earth. Imagine tying a ball to a string, and spinning that ball by the string around in a lasso like motion. the ball is orbiting around right? Now if you cut the string, the ball is going to fly out in a forward direction from where it was cut. This is the forward velocity of our sattelites, and the string is the gravity pulling the ball back into earth. Putting sattelites and other things into orbit on a consistent schedule by nasa, spacex, orbital sciences etc is an amazing feat of modern human advancement that is sadly outright denied here.
Also: when launching into space, the arc you see is to give enough forward velocity to sattelites so they can go forward fast enough to not crash into earth. It's not "nasa crashing into the sea to hide the fact that the earth is flat". This is just disrespectful to the men and women who have spent countless hours to get humanity to this level.
Heres a simple video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC1JQu9xGHQ
That being said, now we know how Round earth believes that GPS works (and how they made it work). Is there any theories that make sense from the FE side on how GPS works?
Balloons would be knocked around with wind which is unpredictable and changes our previous idea of where the balloon is, and this destroy the accuracy of GPS', so that theory doesnt really add up. Cell towers dont work because GPS still works at sea. Even if we were to say that ships use stars for navigation, it doesnt explain apple iphones having gps connection at sea.
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Take a look at this (to pick just one of a bunch of similar projects):
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/swiftnav/piksi-the-rtk-gps-receiver
This is a project to provide GPS tracking for hobbyist drone pilots. Notice that it says that the software is "OpenSourced" - meaning that you, me, or anyone else can download it from https://github.com/swift-nav/piksi_firmware - you can read the software, change it and use it.
I downloaded the Piksi software last night. No doubt whatever that it's tracking satellites.
What's interesting is that it even gives you the capability to use DIFFERENT satellites!
We all talk about GPS - but we forget that the European space agency has been launching a bunch of satellites called "GALILEO". When all 30 of them are whizzing around up there, it'll be more reliable and higher precision than GPS - but it already works at least as well as GPS.
China has a similar system called "Beidou" - they didn't want to risk the Americans turning off GPS (or deliberately screwing it up) in times of war. Beidou has enough satellites in orbit already and will begin testing later this year.
The Russians have yet another one - called "GLONASS" - it has more satellites than GPS, so it produces better readings among tall buildings...it can even use the same chips as GPS, so you could use the Piksi system with it instead of GPS.
So (again) it's not enough for NASA to have faked this - at least three other spacefaring groups have done so.
For those who don't believe in satellites - BAE systems have come up with yet another system called "NAVSOP" which uses "Signals of Opportunity" (SOP) to do navigation. It uses cell phone towers, known TV and radio stations, WiFi systems - and a bunch of other radio sources. It doesn't require satellites and it should be more accurate than GPS/GLONASS/Baidu/GALILEO in built up areas like cities. Sadly, it's a total bust over oceans and lightly inhabited areas.
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infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing
Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!
There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?
NOPE
4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
GPS uses satellites. known and understood. See documentation.
What about gravity? Satellites would fall back to earth like everything else does then stick to the surface like water and peoples. See documentation and facts.
I'd be happy to explain how orbits work!
Orbits work quite well by, you know, going around the earth. The misconception that sattelites do not experience gravity is false.
Sattelites have forward velocity. this is always tangential to their current orbit position. The only thing keeping them in a curve is gravity itself pulling satellites back in to the center of the earth. Imagine tying a ball to a string, and spinning that ball by the string around in a lasso like motion. the ball is orbiting around right? Now if you cut the string, the ball is going to fly out in a forward direction from where it was cut. This is the forward velocity of our sattelites, and the string is the gravity pulling the ball back into earth. Putting sattelites and other things into orbit on a consistent schedule by nasa, spacex, orbital sciences etc is an amazing feat of modern human advancement that is sadly outright denied here.
Also: when launching into space, the arc you see is to give enough forward velocity to sattelites so they can go forward fast enough to not crash into earth. It's not "nasa crashing into the sea to hide the fact that the earth is flat". This is just disrespectful to the men and women who have spent countless hours to get humanity to this level.
Heres a simple video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC1JQu9xGHQ
That being said, now we know how Round earth believes that GPS works (and how they made it work). Is there any theories that make sense from the FE side on how GPS works?
Balloons would be knocked around with wind which is unpredictable and changes our previous idea of where the balloon is, and this destroy the accuracy of GPS', so that theory doesnt really add up. Cell towers dont work because GPS still works at sea. Even if we were to say that ships use stars for navigation, it doesnt explain apple iphones having gps connection at sea.
This video reminds me of one big fairy tale. Finding the balance like on an amplifier for my stereo. Just dial it in perfectly to orbit around for years and years...he he There is no way a satellite can fall back to earth perfectly timed to gravity and a spinning ball. That's all Newton make believe. We don't even know what gravity is because there is no gravity.
Keep trying guys, the six of you with your aliases just keep talking to each other explaining what we the flat earthers believe...no we don't believe what you think. We believe in truth.
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This video reminds me of one big fairy tale. Finding the balance like on an amplifier for my stereo. Just dial it in perfectly to orbit around for years and years...he he There is no way a satellite can fall back to earth perfectly timed to gravity and a spinning ball. That's all Newton make believe. We don't even know what gravity is because there is no gravity.
Oh - if only mankind had invented some kind of small, cheap, low power, device that could monitor situations like this and apply small corrections to keep everything working nicely. Something that could do lots of calculations very quickly and that you could tell what to do in an abstract mathematical fashion.
Well, if we had something that could do things like that, they'd probably give it some ugly name like "computatrix", "computator", "computron"...maybe just "computer"?
Nah - I'm dreaming. They probably stay up there with unicorn-farts.
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So round earth theory has mathematical proof of how GPS sattelites' orbits work, live demonstrations, videos, and countless years of, again, mathematical research to back it all up. Flat earth has a couple theories that have a couple holes each rendering them false and believes that sattelites cant exist because gravity doesnt.
Is that our final conclusion? I'm trying to be as neutral as possible here. Talking with j-man raises more questions than he answers but i'm going to try to keep them focused to the GPS part. For example, for gravity there's an explanation of earth accelerating upwards (still the question of why things at high altitude experience less gravity than others but lets skip on this) at 9.8 m/s^2, which explains how gravity works on a flat earth. Relativity explains how we can keep accelerating. Nothing explains the GPS without having huge holes in its theories though, sooo... any other explanation?
This video reminds me of one big fairy tale. Finding the balance like on an amplifier for my stereo. Just dial it in perfectly to orbit around for years and years...he he There is no way a satellite can fall back to earth perfectly timed to gravity and a spinning ball. That's all Newton make believe. We don't even know what gravity is because there is no gravity.
Oh - if only mankind had invented some kind of small, cheap, low power, device that could monitor situations like this and apply small corrections to keep everything working nicely. Something that could do lots of calculations very quickly and that you could tell what to do in an abstract mathematical fashion.
Before J-Man comes through and says no such thing is possible, i'm working on tuning a PID controller for stability right now and it's held attitude while my aircraft glides. So, yes, computers can stabilize stuff and do the math for you.
Its funny how J-man talks about aliases when he has one just like everybody else. I have nothing to hide, ohitstarik is me across the internet. Even has my name in there.
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Aliases, multiple IDs on the same site, is that what people mean when they talk about "alts"?
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J-Man really draws a crowd, 3 pitbull types again with weak jaws. J-man makes them bow to the owner. No guys Gravity cannot be proved even Mic Dropper doesn't know what it is, no one has seen it.
GPS works just fine off repeater antennas, balloons, bouncing off the dome and home base communication.
I thought you guys were going to ignore me or get me banned? Weak
I bring Truth, knowledge you can afford to be told to the masses.
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GPS works just fine off repeater antennas, balloons, bouncing off the dome and home base communication.
Banned? What and miss this entertainment?
So several people (myself included) posted logical, thoughtful comments. And you just repeat the BS about GPS working with balloons. I'll chalk this one up as a RE win until you present some actual facts or evidence. Which I know you can't.
Or better yet, explain how position can be established using a non directional signal bounced off the inside of a dome. That should be fun.
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GPS works just fine off repeater antennas, balloons, bouncing off the dome and home base communication.
Banned? What and miss this entertainment?
So several people (myself included) posted logical, thoughtful comments. And you just repeat the BS about GPS working with balloons. I'll chalk this one up as a RE win until you present some actual facts or evidence. Which I know you can't.
Or better yet, explain how position can be established using a non directional signal bounced off the inside of a dome. That should be fun.
That is an easy one. The good book (Bible) says God hears us all, so when we go to bounce communication of any type off the dome it doesn't really matter the direction. God knows from whom and to who even before it's sent.
So yes "God did It"
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That is an easy one. The good book (Bible) says God hears us all, so when we go to bounce communication of any type off the dome it doesn't really matter the direction. God knows from whom and to who even before it's sent.
So yes "God did It"
RE win confirmed.
But just to be clear, I know you're just trolling and you couldn't actually believe the crap you post. I'm only responding for the sake of anyone with an open mind who might wander by.
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....except apparently even the bible points to a round earth..
http://www.eternal-productions.org/PDFS/articles/Does%20the%20Bible%20Teach%20a%20Spherical%20Earth.pdf
This thread got way off topic though. junker might want to just lock it or move it.
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I would suggest reading the wiki and FAQ.
A search of the Wiki returns no GPS information.
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....except apparently even the bible points to a round earth..
http://www.eternal-productions.org/PDFS/articles/Does%20the%20Bible%20Teach%20a%20Spherical%20Earth.pdf
This thread got way off topic though. junker might want to just lock it or move it.
Actually junker should just delete your post since it's not factual or on topic
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GPS works just fine within the High Frequency band. All planes are equipped with antenna for such GPS. They call it, over the horizon, in short meaning waaay long distance, towers can't reach, no such thing as satellites and we must bounce the digital packets off the ionosphere or dome. As I said you need communication to a home base receiver which its position is exact and you can find anything else.
The coronal mass ejections of last month had little effect. Carry on, all scary tactics for MORE MONEY please for our demonic scientist freeks.
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GPS works just fine within the High Frequency band. All planes are equipped with antenna for such GPS. They call it, over the horizon, in short meaning waaay long distance, towers can't reach, no such thing as satellites and we must bounce the digital packets off the ionosphere or dome. As I said you need communication to a home base receiver which its position is exact and you can find anything else.
JMan doubling down on crazy. Can radio frequencies be bounced off the ionosphere? Yes. But it is an area of the atmosphere that ranges from 60 km (37 mi) to 1,000 km (620 mi). It's not an exact point that you reflect a signal from, you know, like a dome.
GPS works using mathematical calculations depending on exact timing of the signals and the distance they travel. (They being plural since is requires multiple satellite signals).
It couldn't possibly work by bouncing signals from balloons and base stations off random layers of the atmosphere.
You're really not helping your cause by just making up nonsense and posting it.
But in retrospect, the topic of the post was "How does FE think that GPS works?", so I guess you've answered that question.
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GPS works just fine within the High Frequency band. All planes are equipped with antenna for such GPS. They call it, over the horizon, in short meaning waaay long distance, towers can't reach, no such thing as satellites and we must bounce the digital packets off the ionosphere or dome. As I said you need communication to a home base receiver which its position is exact and you can find anything else.
JMan doubling down on crazy. Can radio frequencies be bounced off the ionosphere? Yes. But it is an area of the atmosphere that ranges from 60 km (37 mi) to 1,000 km (620 mi). It's not an exact point that you reflect a signal from, you know, like a dome.
GPS works using mathematical calculations depending on exact timing of the signals and the distance they travel. (They being plural since is requires multiple satellite signals).
It couldn't possibly work by bouncing signals from balloons and base stations off random layers of the atmosphere.
You're really not helping your cause by just making up nonsense and posting it.
But in retrospect, the topic of the post was "How does FE think that GPS works?", so I guess you've answered that question.
Not so fast Mr. Deceiver
"Before the first communications satellites were launched in the 1960s, high-frequency (HF) radio was the principal means to communicate beyond the horizon."
"However, we are seeing a resurgence in HF radio, in part because new automatic link establishment (ALE) protocols now make HF a reliable, low-cost alternative to satellite."
http://urgentcomm.com/mobile_voice/mag/hf-radio-use-201103
Every plane today is equipped with HF for over the horizon GPS, bypassing satellites. So the truth is out, satellites aren't and were never needed, therefore they are a figment of your imagination.
"Once pushed aside by satellite communications, this radio type still is relevant for over-the-horizon communications."
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Can radio frequencies be bounced off the ionosphere? Yes.
high-frequency (HF) radio was the principal means to communicate beyond the horizon.
That's a stunning argument to come back and say radio frequencies can bounce off the atmosphere after I claimed radio frequencies can bounce off the atmosphere. Maybe you didn't read the post.
Please cite your source for this claim:
Every plane today is equipped with HF for over the horizon GPS, bypassing satellites.
Planes may have HF radios, wouldn't surprise me. If they do, they are not used for GPS. Because "over the horizon GPS" isn't a thing.
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Man of the mountain, me thinks you're a shill for the deceiver man on the mountain.
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5210024/?reload=true
Adaptive beamforming for high-frequency over-the-horizon passive radar
Read all about it, there is tons of this tech out there, you don't need sats as I've been saying for weeks.
"GPS data measured on-board the cooperative aircraft provided accurate ground truth of the flight path, enabling target profiles in bi-static range, Doppler frequency and direction-of-arrival (azimuth/elevation) to be calculated as a function of time."
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Here's a great one, shows HF being bounced off dome.
http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2016/04/long-range-surveillance-radar.html
Navy asks Raytheon to operate and maintain ROTHR over-the-horizon surveillance radar
I'm really not sure what more there is to prove. Raytheon just showed you the dome God and I speak of and we all know GPS with line of sight is a no brainer with towers, balloons, repeaters and base stations. Why do you tangle with one of Gods ass kickin cowboys?
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Man of the mountain, me thinks you're a shill for the deceiver man on the mountain.
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5210024/?reload=true
Adaptive beamforming for high-frequency over-the-horizon passive radar
Read all about it, there is tons of this tech out there, you don't need sats as I've been saying for weeks.
"GPS data measured on-board the cooperative aircraft provided accurate ground truth of the flight path, enabling target profiles in bi-static range, Doppler frequency and direction-of-arrival (azimuth/elevation) to be calculated as a function of time."
Rolling on the floor laughing. Sure, post more articles about over the horizon radar, that don't have anything to do with how GPS works.
This is rich. Did you read that article and understand it? You really shouldn't post stuff that you don't understand.
The article says they are testing the use of high frequency radio waves to detect targets over the horizon.
Over the horizon means targets that don't have line of sight to their radar emitter because of the curvature of the Earth.
When it says "GPS data measured on-board" it means that they verified the test results using GPS data on board the plane.
(Had to re-post this, had quoted the wrong post)
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Here's a great one, shows HF being bounced off dome.
http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2016/04/long-range-surveillance-radar.html
Navy asks Raytheon to operate and maintain ROTHR over-the-horizon surveillance radar
I'm really not sure what more there is to prove. Raytheon just showed you the dome God and I speak of and we all know GPS with line of sight is a no brainer with towers, balloons, repeaters and base stations. Why do you tangle with one of Gods ass kickin cowboys?
Good grief, this is like explaining it to a child!
GPS works by measuring the time delay between three or more radio sources that are widely separated. By seeing how much delay you get from each one, and by knowing the speed of light - you can calculate your distance from all three sources...and then you know where you are.
BUT if you were using a signal bounced off of the ionosphere - you'd only know the distance from the source to the ionosphere plus the distance from the ionosphere to you. Trouble with that is that you don't know how high the ionosphere is...at least not to within a couple of feet.
So a system such as you describe might be enough to keep an airplane within a few kilometers of it's route - but it's not going to be anywhere close to enough to allow Google Maps to tell which lane of traffic you're in...or even which road you're on.
So for 100% sure, GPS cannot be faked by bouncing a signal off of the ionosphere.
Some others have claimed it could be done with radio transmitters on top of tall towers - but that could only possibly work if you have at least three towers within line-of-sight of where you are.
GPS was designed to be used to launch things like cruise missiles and ICBM's into enemy territory - do you think that the Iraquis and Afghanis were helpfully building towers every few miles across their entire countries to help us to do that?
What's VERY interesting about your claims though is that they talk about all of these systems for over-the-horizon transmissions...but I was under the impression that you believe that the Earth is Flat? So why would any of that be needed in the first place?
Sorry - but you're WRONG - and you're trying to use RET to prove that you're right - which is pretty silly.
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Here's a great one, shows HF being bounced off dome.
http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2016/04/long-range-surveillance-radar.html
Navy asks Raytheon to operate and maintain ROTHR over-the-horizon surveillance radar
I'm really not sure what more there is to prove. Raytheon just showed you the dome God and I speak of and we all know GPS with line of sight is a no brainer with towers, balloons, repeaters and base stations. Why do you tangle with one of Gods ass kickin cowboys?
Good grief, this is like explaining it to a child!
GPS works by measuring the time delay between three or more radio sources that are widely separated. By seeing how much delay you get from each one, and by knowing the speed of light - you can calculate your distance from all three sources...and then you know where you are.
BUT if you were using a signal bounced off of the ionosphere - you'd only know the distance from the source to the ionosphere plus the distance from the ionosphere to you. Trouble with that is that you don't know how high the ionosphere is...at least not to within a couple of feet.
So a system such as you describe might be enough to keep an airplane within a few kilometers of it's route - but it's not going to be anywhere close to enough to allow Google Maps to tell which lane of traffic you're in...or even which road you're on.
So for 100% sure, GPS cannot be faked by bouncing a signal off of the ionosphere.
Some others have claimed it could be done with radio transmitters on top of tall towers - but that could only possibly work if you have at least three towers within line-of-sight of where you are.
GPS was designed to be used to launch things like cruise missiles and ICBM's into enemy territory - do you think that the Iraquis and Afghanis were helpfully building towers every few miles across their entire countries to help us to do that?
What's VERY interesting about your claims though is that they talk about all of these systems for over-the-horizon transmissions...but I was under the impression that you believe that the Earth is Flat? So why would any of that be needed in the first place?
Sorry - but you're WRONG - and you're trying to use RET to prove that you're right - which is pretty silly.
So to recap, J-man says it's either god bounces off of the dome or balloons and Junker says to read the Wiki for GPS information where none exists.
Very informative.
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So to recap, J-man says it's either god bounces off of the dome or balloons and Junker says to read the Wiki for GPS information where none exists.
Very informative.
Yep. If you search the Wiki for "GPS" you get exactly one page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Space_Travel - which contains four broken links and nothing else.
If there was just one GPS system and it only worked in continental USA, then towers and balloons and such might work - but there are AT LEAST four different GPS-like systems out there (US, Russian, Chinese and European) and all four of them have world-wide coverage. Do you see Chinese and Russian navigational towers studding the landscape in the USA? Are there thousands of balloons from all four nations drifting languidly across our skies?
The "bouncing off of the ionosphere" approach cannot work for precision better than a few kilometers - and all four systems that we know of are accurate to within ten meters or so most of the time.
So I guess the Earth must be round.
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So to recap, J-man says it's either god bounces off of the dome or balloons and Junker says to read the Wiki for GPS information where none exists.
Very informative.
Yep. If you search the Wiki for "GPS" you get exactly one page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Space_Travel - which contains four broken links and nothing else.
If there was just one GPS system and it only worked in continental USA, then towers and balloons and such might work - but there are AT LEAST four different GPS-like systems out there (US, Russian, Chinese and European) and all four of them have world-wide coverage. Do you see Chinese and Russian navigational towers studding the landscape in the USA? Are there thousands of balloons from all four nations drifting languidly across our skies?
The "bouncing off of the ionosphere" approach cannot work for precision better than a few kilometers - and all four systems that we know of are accurate to within ten meters or so most of the time.
So I guess the Earth must be round.
Yes. Isn't it amazing and sad the lengths people stretch their imagination in order to fold everything into their FE belief system?
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So to recap, J-man says it's either god bounces off of the dome or balloons and Junker says to read the Wiki for GPS information where none exists.
Very informative.
Yep. If you search the Wiki for "GPS" you get exactly one page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Space_Travel - which contains four broken links and nothing else.
If there was just one GPS system and it only worked in continental USA, then towers and balloons and such might work - but there are AT LEAST four different GPS-like systems out there (US, Russian, Chinese and European) and all four of them have world-wide coverage. Do you see Chinese and Russian navigational towers studding the landscape in the USA? Are there thousands of balloons from all four nations drifting languidly across our skies?
The "bouncing off of the ionosphere" approach cannot work for precision better than a few kilometers - and all four systems that we know of are accurate to within ten meters or so most of the time.
So I guess the Earth must be round.
qeek you should stop the deceit or maybe it's just ignorance? TV GPS radar all work off High Frequency waves now. You don't need satellites for Skywave, Groundwave or Line of Sight transmissions. Put the Kool-aid down and come join us in this brave new world that was discovered in 1921....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywave
"In radio communication, skywave or skip refers to the propagation of radio waves reflected or refracted back toward Earth from the ionosphere, an electrically charged layer of the upper atmosphere. Since it is not limited by the curvature of the Earth, skywave propagation can be used to communicate beyond the horizon, at intercontinental distances."
"E-skip is a notable exception, where VHF signals including FM broadcast and VHF TV signals are frequently reflected to the Earth during late Spring and early Summer."
https://www.accessengineeringlibrary.com/browse/high-frequency-over-the-horizon-radar-fundamental-principles-signal-processing-and-practical-applications
High Frequency Over-the-Horizon Radar: Fundamental Principles, Signal Processing, and Practical Applications
Abstract: Written by a leading global expert on the topic, High Frequency Over-the-Horizon Radar provides in-depth coverage of the signal processing models and techniques that have significantly advanced OTH radar technology.
Conventional Processing
"1010505Signal and data processing have long been recognized as key elements to the success of OTH radar (Headrick and Skolnik, 1974). Such systems are inherently required to operate in severe clutter, interference, and noise environments, where the power of a received target echo is typically several orders of magnitude lower than that of the disturbance signal. Here, signal processing refers to a sequence of steps that transform the in-phase and quadrature baseband data samples acquired by the analog-to-digital (A/D) converters in each receiver of a multi-channel system to complex-valued outputs in the canonical radar dimensions of group-range, beam direction, and Doppler frequency. "
+++
The Israeli's invented Voice over internet Protocol which is in fact the basis for the success of this HF model. To take analog packets smash them down to digital packets with individual ID and blow them all over the skies. Then suck them up with a huge vacuum cleaner, they automatically arrange in the proper order and a high tech switch is able to then send them (packets) to the processor to find your ass, listen in on ya, or send you reruns of Little House on the Prairie.
The storage facility in Utah to accumulate every digital packet ever processed is waiting for you. There is no escape.
-
So to recap, J-man says it's either god bounces off of the dome or balloons and Junker says to read the Wiki for GPS information where none exists.
Very informative.
Yep. If you search the Wiki for "GPS" you get exactly one page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Space_Travel - which contains four broken links and nothing else.
If there was just one GPS system and it only worked in continental USA, then towers and balloons and such might work - but there are AT LEAST four different GPS-like systems out there (US, Russian, Chinese and European) and all four of them have world-wide coverage. Do you see Chinese and Russian navigational towers studding the landscape in the USA? Are there thousands of balloons from all four nations drifting languidly across our skies?
The "bouncing off of the ionosphere" approach cannot work for precision better than a few kilometers - and all four systems that we know of are accurate to within ten meters or so most of the time.
So I guess the Earth must be round.
qeek you should stop the deceit or maybe it's just ignorance? TV GPS radar all work off High Frequency waves now. You don't need satellites for Skywave, Groundwave or Line of Sight transmissions. Put the Kool-aid down and come join us in this brave new world that was discovered in 1921....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywave
"In radio communication, skywave or skip refers to the propagation of radio waves reflected or refracted back toward Earth from the ionosphere, an electrically charged layer of the upper atmosphere. Since it is not limited by the curvature of the Earth, skywave propagation can be used to communicate beyond the horizon, at intercontinental distances."
"E-skip is a notable exception, where VHF signals including FM broadcast and VHF TV signals are frequently reflected to the Earth during late Spring and early Summer."
https://www.accessengineeringlibrary.com/browse/high-frequency-over-the-horizon-radar-fundamental-principles-signal-processing-and-practical-applications
High Frequency Over-the-Horizon Radar: Fundamental Principles, Signal Processing, and Practical Applications
Abstract: Written by a leading global expert on the topic, High Frequency Over-the-Horizon Radar provides in-depth coverage of the signal processing models and techniques that have significantly advanced OTH radar technology.
Conventional Processing
1010505Signal and data processing have long been recognized as key elements to the success of OTH radar (Headrick and Skolnik, 1974). Such systems are inherently required to operate in severe clutter, interference, and noise environments, where the power of a received target echo is typically several orders of magnitude lower than that of the disturbance signal. Here, signal processing refers to a sequence of steps that transform the in-phase and quadrature baseband data samples acquired by the analog-to-digital (A/D) converters in each receiver of a multi-channel system to complex-valued outputs in the canonical radar dimensions of group-range, beam direction, and Doppler frequency.
The Israeli's invented Voice over internet Protocol which is in fact the bases for the success of this HF model. To take analog packets smash them down to digital packets with individual ID and blow them all over the skies. Then suck them up with a huge vacuum cleaner, they automatically arrange in the proper order and a high tech switch is able to then send them (packets) to the processor to find your ass, listen in on ya, or send you reruns of Little House on the Prairie.
The storage facility in Utah to accumulate every digital packet ever processed is waiting for you. There is no escape.
All unrelated to how GPS works. Please post links to GPS documentation.
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So to recap, J-man says it's either god bounces off of the dome or balloons and Junker says to read the Wiki for GPS information where none exists.
Very informative.
Yep. If you search the Wiki for "GPS" you get exactly one page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Space_Travel - which contains four broken links and nothing else.
If there was just one GPS system and it only worked in continental USA, then towers and balloons and such might work - but there are AT LEAST four different GPS-like systems out there (US, Russian, Chinese and European) and all four of them have world-wide coverage. Do you see Chinese and Russian navigational towers studding the landscape in the USA? Are there thousands of balloons from all four nations drifting languidly across our skies?
The "bouncing off of the ionosphere" approach cannot work for precision better than a few kilometers - and all four systems that we know of are accurate to within ten meters or so most of the time.
So I guess the Earth must be round.
qeek you should stop the deceit or maybe it's just ignorance? TV GPS radar all work off High Frequency waves now. You don't need satellites for Skywave, Groundwave or Line of Sight transmissions. Put the Kool-aid down and come join us in this brave new world that was discovered in 1921....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywave
"In radio communication, skywave or skip refers to the propagation of radio waves reflected or refracted back toward Earth from the ionosphere, an electrically charged layer of the upper atmosphere. Since it is not limited by the curvature of the Earth, skywave propagation can be used to communicate beyond the horizon, at intercontinental distances."
"E-skip is a notable exception, where VHF signals including FM broadcast and VHF TV signals are frequently reflected to the Earth during late Spring and early Summer."
https://www.accessengineeringlibrary.com/browse/high-frequency-over-the-horizon-radar-fundamental-principles-signal-processing-and-practical-applications
High Frequency Over-the-Horizon Radar: Fundamental Principles, Signal Processing, and Practical Applications
Abstract: Written by a leading global expert on the topic, High Frequency Over-the-Horizon Radar provides in-depth coverage of the signal processing models and techniques that have significantly advanced OTH radar technology.
Conventional Processing
1010505Signal and data processing have long been recognized as key elements to the success of OTH radar (Headrick and Skolnik, 1974). Such systems are inherently required to operate in severe clutter, interference, and noise environments, where the power of a received target echo is typically several orders of magnitude lower than that of the disturbance signal. Here, signal processing refers to a sequence of steps that transform the in-phase and quadrature baseband data samples acquired by the analog-to-digital (A/D) converters in each receiver of a multi-channel system to complex-valued outputs in the canonical radar dimensions of group-range, beam direction, and Doppler frequency.
The Israeli's invented Voice over internet Protocol which is in fact the bases for the success of this HF model. To take analog packets smash them down to digital packets with individual ID and blow them all over the skies. Then suck them up with a huge vacuum cleaner, they automatically arrange in the proper order and a high tech switch is able to then send them (packets) to the processor to find your ass, listen in on ya, or send you reruns of Little House on the Prairie.
The storage facility in Utah to accumulate every digital packet ever processed is waiting for you. There is no escape.
All unrelated to how GPS works. Please post links to GPS documentation.
I can't tell you thank you for playing because you haven't been paying attention. Back on the first page I provided this link that surveyors used for GPS.
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog160/node/1926
5.5 Land Surveying and Conventional Techniques for Measuring Positions on the Earth’s Surface
"You might wonder how a control network gets started. If positions are measured relative to other positions, what is the first position measured relative to? The answer is: the stars."
Remember? God did it.....
Now we've moved into GPS for purposes of Over-the-Horizon which you RE nut jobs should be enjoying. Doesn't require Sat's
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So to recap, J-man says it's either god bounces off of the dome or balloons and Junker says to read the Wiki for GPS information where none exists.
Very informative.
Yep. If you search the Wiki for "GPS" you get exactly one page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Space_Travel - which contains four broken links and nothing else.
If there was just one GPS system and it only worked in continental USA, then towers and balloons and such might work - but there are AT LEAST four different GPS-like systems out there (US, Russian, Chinese and European) and all four of them have world-wide coverage. Do you see Chinese and Russian navigational towers studding the landscape in the USA? Are there thousands of balloons from all four nations drifting languidly across our skies?
The "bouncing off of the ionosphere" approach cannot work for precision better than a few kilometers - and all four systems that we know of are accurate to within ten meters or so most of the time.
So I guess the Earth must be round.
qeek you should stop the deceit or maybe it's just ignorance? TV GPS radar all work off High Frequency waves now. You don't need satellites for Skywave, Groundwave or Line of Sight transmissions. Put the Kool-aid down and come join us in this brave new world that was discovered in 1921....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywave
"In radio communication, skywave or skip refers to the propagation of radio waves reflected or refracted back toward Earth from the ionosphere, an electrically charged layer of the upper atmosphere. Since it is not limited by the curvature of the Earth, skywave propagation can be used to communicate beyond the horizon, at intercontinental distances."
"E-skip is a notable exception, where VHF signals including FM broadcast and VHF TV signals are frequently reflected to the Earth during late Spring and early Summer."
https://www.accessengineeringlibrary.com/browse/high-frequency-over-the-horizon-radar-fundamental-principles-signal-processing-and-practical-applications
High Frequency Over-the-Horizon Radar: Fundamental Principles, Signal Processing, and Practical Applications
Abstract: Written by a leading global expert on the topic, High Frequency Over-the-Horizon Radar provides in-depth coverage of the signal processing models and techniques that have significantly advanced OTH radar technology.
Conventional Processing
1010505Signal and data processing have long been recognized as key elements to the success of OTH radar (Headrick and Skolnik, 1974). Such systems are inherently required to operate in severe clutter, interference, and noise environments, where the power of a received target echo is typically several orders of magnitude lower than that of the disturbance signal. Here, signal processing refers to a sequence of steps that transform the in-phase and quadrature baseband data samples acquired by the analog-to-digital (A/D) converters in each receiver of a multi-channel system to complex-valued outputs in the canonical radar dimensions of group-range, beam direction, and Doppler frequency.
The Israeli's invented Voice over internet Protocol which is in fact the bases for the success of this HF model. To take analog packets smash them down to digital packets with individual ID and blow them all over the skies. Then suck them up with a huge vacuum cleaner, they automatically arrange in the proper order and a high tech switch is able to then send them (packets) to the processor to find your ass, listen in on ya, or send you reruns of Little House on the Prairie.
The storage facility in Utah to accumulate every digital packet ever processed is waiting for you. There is no escape.
All unrelated to how GPS works. Please post links to GPS documentation.
I can't tell you thank you for playing because you haven't been paying attention. Back on the first page I provided this link that surveyors used for GPS.
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog160/node/1926
5.5 Land Surveying and Conventional Techniques for Measuring Positions on the Earth’s Surface
"You might wonder how a control network gets started. If positions are measured relative to other positions, what is the first position measured relative to? The answer is: the stars."
Remember? God did it.....
Now we've moved into GPS for purposes of Over-the-Horizon which you RE nut jobs should be enjoying. Doesn't require Sat's
No, the technical information for GPS systems please. Like http://www.gps.gov/ Please list frequencies, codes, messages etc.
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qeek you should stop the deceit or maybe it's just ignorance? TV GPS radar all work off High Frequency waves now. You don't need satellites for Skywave, Groundwave or Line of Sight transmissions. Put the Kool-aid down and come join us in this brave new world that was discovered in 1921....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywave
Good grief - you really do think we RE'ers are stupid don't you? Don't you imagine that we occasionally look stuff up?
Yes we do...and 3 minutes of googling reveals that "skywave" transmissions send a signal up from the ground - it bounces off of this layer in the atmosphere called "The Ionosphere" and thereby gets picked up on the ground...for 100% sure, that works.
HOWEVER: For navigation, you need to measure your distance from at least three sources. Right? If you want to know your position accurate to the 3 to 10 meters that GPS is accurate over - then you have to know how far the radio signal travelled...to within at least that precision.
With satellites - you know their position VERY accurately - they orbit at precise altitudes.
But with a "skywave" system, the distance the radio wave travelled is the distance from the transmitter to the ionosphere plus the distance from the ionosphere back to the receiver.
So for us to use skywave as a navigational system, we'd need to know the height of the ionosphere above the ground to a precision of better than 1.5 to 5 meters.
OK so how accurately do we know the height of the ionosphere?
Well, the D-layer (which is responsible for this 'skywave' refraction phenomenon) is described here: https://scied.ucar.edu/ionosphere
"The D region is the lowest, starting about 60 or 70 km (37 or 43 miles) above the ground and extending upward to about 90 km (56 miles)."
Oh..."about"?!? No! "about" isn't good enough. We need the distance accurate to a meter or so! It could be anywhere from 60 to 70km? Well that could change the distance that the radio waves travel by as much as 20km! So if GPS worked the way you fondly imagine it might - then it would only be just barely accurate enough to tell you which city you're in...not which lane of the freeway you're on!
Worse still - this kind of communication only works in the HF band - which has wavelengths in the ten to one hundred metres range. That means that to receive it, you'd need a 5 to 50 meter antenna.
Just how big *IS* your cellphone?
GPS signals are in the 1.5GHz range - (UHF) which allows for a 5 centimeter antenna...which fits handily into phones and satnavs. But UHF signals don't bounce off of the ionosphere...they go right through it like it wasn't even there.
You also pointed out that VHF signals can also bounce - but only at certain times of the day and year...that's hardly useful for 24/7 GPS uses is it? Also, TV signals are VHF - and have you seen the size of antenna you need to get decent reception? Yeah - about a half meter to a meter...still not fitting into a cellphone!
(Maybe your cellphone came with a pair of "rabbit ear" antennas?)
So - GPS cannot POSSIBLY use HF, so it doesn't bounce off the ionosphere. It uses UHF, which very notably DOES NOT bounce off of the ionosphere - and cannot go "over the horizon". The refraction of the radio waves is fairly minimal, and high quality GPS units have software to estimate the degree of refraction in order to get slightly more precise positioning.
Old-school GPS's like my old Garmin sport-trac actually showed you which satellites it had found - and every few minutes, one would disappear over the horizon and a new one come up to replace it. That doesn't work for balloons or tall towers or signals bouncing around in the atmosphere.
So no - you are COMPLETELY wrong - and for two entirely different and easily checkable reasons.
Why not check things like this before you post? The information is ridiculously easy to find. The people you're talking to here are SMART PEOPLE. We're going to look stuff up and think about it - you really can't just guess at answers without being called out and made to look pretty stupid.
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inquisitive
I don't work for the .gov, they are lucky I pay my taxes, otherwise don't call me and I won't call you type thing.
Now I did work at a covert CIA office for a short time, kinda spooky if you ask me. Then I sued the bastards for rippin off the little guy, made em return damn near $100mm. Fuckers won't forget me anytime soon.
Like Junker, I'm doing Gods work.....
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Nice try qeek, the tech is waaaay past your puny little muscles. They can pinpoint a gnat on horses ass halfway around the globe if the horse farts a couple good times.
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inquisitive
I don't work for the .gov, they are lucky I pay my taxes, otherwise don't call me and I won't call you type thing.
Now I did work at a covert CIA office for a short time, kinda spooky if you ask me. Then I sued the bastards for rippin off the little guy, made em return damn near $100mm. Fuckers won't forget me anytime soon.
Like Junker, I'm doing Gods work.....
So you can't provide technical details of how GPS works.
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inquisitive
I don't work for the .gov, they are lucky I pay my taxes, otherwise don't call me and I won't call you type thing.
Now I did work at a covert CIA office for a short time, kinda spooky if you ask me. Then I sued the bastards for rippin off the little guy, made em return damn near $100mm. Fuckers won't forget me anytime soon.
Like Junker, I'm doing Gods work.....
So you can't provide technical details of how GPS works.
It's similar to the gyro in airplanes made by one .gov contractor. A need to know only type thang. You need, I'm satisfied with there are no satellites.
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If you search the Wiki for "GPS" you get exactly one page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Space_Travel - which contains four broken links and nothing else.
Interesting, you've found an old orphaned page. Nothing links to it, and it links to nowhere, so I've now removed it.
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If you search the Wiki for "GPS" you get exactly one page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Space_Travel - which contains four broken links and nothing else.
Interesting, you've found an old orphaned page. Nothing links to it, and it links to nowhere, so I've now removed it.
Thanks, we'd like to send you a Holiday Gift, is there a way we can locate you now?
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inquisitive
I don't work for the .gov, they are lucky I pay my taxes, otherwise don't call me and I won't call you type thing.
Now I did work at a covert CIA office for a short time, kinda spooky if you ask me. Then I sued the bastards for rippin off the little guy, made em return damn near $100mm. Fuckers won't forget me anytime soon.
Like Junker, I'm doing Gods work.....
So you can't provide technical details of how GPS works.
It's similar to the gyro in airplanes made by one .gov contractor. A need to know only type thang. You need, I'm satisfied with there are no satellites.
If I'm making an app for a phone where do I find the data output format?
I assume you are OK with satellites for TV reception as the dish angle proves their location.
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inquisitive
I don't work for the .gov, they are lucky I pay my taxes, otherwise don't call me and I won't call you type thing.
Now I did work at a covert CIA office for a short time, kinda spooky if you ask me. Then I sued the bastards for rippin off the little guy, made em return damn near $100mm. Fuckers won't forget me anytime soon.
Like Junker, I'm doing Gods work.....
So you can't provide technical details of how GPS works.
It's similar to the gyro in airplanes made by one .gov contractor. A need to know only type thang. You need, I'm satisfied with there are no satellites.
If I'm making an app for a phone where do I find the data output format?
Call Walmart they pretty much sell everything, they are connected if you know what I mean :)
But seriously check with Harold over in New Acct's software sales .gov GPS/com if he isn't in he could be testing his latest over at Cern research tunnel, specifically "dark matters"
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inquisitive
I don't work for the .gov, they are lucky I pay my taxes, otherwise don't call me and I won't call you type thing.
Now I did work at a covert CIA office for a short time, kinda spooky if you ask me. Then I sued the bastards for rippin off the little guy, made em return damn near $100mm. Fuckers won't forget me anytime soon.
Like Junker, I'm doing Gods work.....
So you can't provide technical details of how GPS works.
It's similar to the gyro in airplanes made by one .gov contractor. A need to know only type thang. You need, I'm satisfied with there are no satellites.
If I'm making an app for a phone where do I find the data output format?
I assume you are OK with satellites for TV reception as the dish angle proves their location.
I haven't paid for tv or watched it in 10 years. Now I think you could be wrong about this. I would expect they are given a specific area of the sky to send and receive digital packets from the .gov. I've already provided links to technical data available about picking these streams or grabbing them from the skywave or groundwave. All packets are identified with numbers so to make an area specific for a company is very reasonable for potential packet loss, causing jitter, delays ect. Again no sats, one can pic up these signals either going up or bouncing back down.
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inquisitive
I don't work for the .gov, they are lucky I pay my taxes, otherwise don't call me and I won't call you type thing.
Now I did work at a covert CIA office for a short time, kinda spooky if you ask me. Then I sued the bastards for rippin off the little guy, made em return damn near $100mm. Fuckers won't forget me anytime soon.
Like Junker, I'm doing Gods work.....
So you can't provide technical details of how GPS works.
It's similar to the gyro in airplanes made by one .gov contractor. A need to know only type thang. You need, I'm satisfied with there are no satellites.
If I'm making an app for a phone where do I find the data output format?
I assume you are OK with satellites for TV reception as the dish angle proves their location.
I haven't paid for tv or watched it in 10 years. Now I think you could be wrong about this. I would expect they are given a specific area of the sky to send and receive digital packets from the .gov. I've already provided links to technical data available about picking these streams or grabbing them from the skywave or groundwave. All packets are identified with numbers so to make an area specific for a company is very reasonable for potential packet loss, causing jitter, delays ect. Again no sats, one can pic up these signals either going up or bouncing back down.
Totally untrue, but if you think you are correct then please provide links to technical documentation. Satellite dish alignment has to be very precise, dishes point to locations over the equator, as you know.
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Nice try qeek, the tech is waaaay past your puny little muscles. They can pinpoint a gnat on horses ass halfway around the globe if the horse farts a couple good times.
As usual, an impressive point-by-point technical rebuttal of my argument, just as we've come to expect from you.
Really, you go to all the trouble to post all of that detail about HF signals - and when I point out that it's all complete twaddle - you have to resort to...actually...I don't even know what it is. Humor? Eh...not really. Insults? I think I've heard better. Certainly not a shred of logical debate. No sense whatever that you have half-a-clue about what you're posting here.
If you knew what you were talking about the first time - you'd be able to tell me - in some detail - why I was mistaken - but you can't.
Bottom line - YOU DON'T KNOW - and we all know that you don't know - and you know that we know that.
You can't even dispute one tiny fact from my careful rebuttal can you?
Oh - wait! I think I hear more lame insults coming...Ohhhh! Ooohh! He's going to deliberately mis-spell my username...Wow - the intellectual highlight of my day!
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Nice try qeek, the tech is waaaay past your puny little muscles. They can pinpoint a gnat on horses ass halfway around the globe if the horse farts a couple good times.
As usual, an impressive point-by-point technical rebuttal of my argument, just as we've come to expect from you.
This thread started not to explain GPS, but to question how FE types think it works, since we all know it does actually work. And I think we have all seen the answer. Anything that questions their FE belief must be trivialized, mis-directed, or answered with completely made up bullshit. With just a little sprinkle of evil conspiracy.
Is anything going to change the mind of the ardent FE believer, as this point I have to think not. But anyone with an actual open mind should be able to learn from this type of exchange.
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The RE peeps around here are just not up with the times and the tech.
GPS is DONE WITH HIGH FREQUENCY BAND which has been around since 1920
Go buy your fleet a system to monitor your peeps.
https://at-communication.com/en/hf_ssb_gps_internav/codan/hf_ssb_gps.html
HF GPS Tracking
Using GPS, Codan’s High Frequency (HF) technology now provides a viable and cost-effective option for managing:
The GPS system can be configured so that the base station keeps track of the current location of all of the transceivers in a network.
As HF transmissions are free to air, the technology offers considerable price advantages over satellite communications systems, which usually charge a time-based fee.
In addition to lower ongoing costs, an HF GPS system will invariably involve lower start-up costs when compared with a satellite based system.
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Why Lord? Why am I forced to play with retards? Can I at least have an intelligent conversation once in a while? Please and TY Amen
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I'm sorry they are just coo coo birds.
Pinpointing covert HF transmitters worldwide is goal of HFGeo signals intelligence program
WRIGHT-PATTERSON AFB, Ohio-Signals intelligence (SIGINT) experts at the U.S. Intelligence Advanced Research Projects Activity (IARPA) are enlisting the help of two U.S. defense companies to develop technologies to detect and pinpoint high-frequency (HF) radar and communications systems anywhere in the world.
Systems & Technology Research LLC in Winchester, Mass., and the Northrop Grumman Corp. Information Systems segment in Chantilly, Va., are developing antennas and signal processing to locate radar and communications systems that rely on HF signals, which is particularly difficult to do.
http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/print/volume-23/issue-09/news/news/pinpointing-covert-hf-transmitters-worldwide-is-goal-of-hfgeo-signals-intelligence-program.html
Navy asks Raytheon to operate and maintain ROTHR over-the-horizon surveillance radar
The ROTHR over-the-horizon radar uses high-frequency radar waves that bounce off a layer of the atmosphere called the ionosphere to provide long-range over-the-horizon radar coverage.
http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2016/04/long-range-surveillance-radar.html
The .gov is using HF why? No Sats exist is why....
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Go buy your fleet a system to monitor your peeps.
https://at-communication.com/en/hf_ssb_gps_internav/codan/hf_ssb_gps.html
HF GPS Tracking
Using GPS, Codan’s High Frequency (HF) technology now provides a viable and cost-effective option for managing:
The GPS system can be configured so that the base station keeps track of the current location of all of the transceivers in a network.
As HF transmissions are free to air, the technology offers considerable price advantages over satellite communications systems, which usually charge a time-based fee.
More of the same. You really should just hang it up. I guess you did a Google search and found a page with both "GPS" and "HF" and then immediately posted it.
Posting links to articles you don't understand doesn't help your case.
Here is a quote from that page that you seemed to skip over
The Global Positioning System (GPS) consists of a network of satellite transmitters in orbit around the earth. Each of the satellites continuously broadcasts a reference signal. A ground-based GPS receiver can accurately determine its position on the earth if it receives a signal from three these GPS satellites.
Do you notice any similarities with that explanation to what I and others have posted? Does that tell you anything? It should.
Why do you use reference material that contradicts your core belief?
But the bottom line is this. The product they advertise isn't GPS. It is a product that uses HF radio to track vehicles, cargo, and other things that have GPS receivers. They are devices that take coordinates from a GPS receiver and transmit them, using HF, to a central (or base) station.
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Navy asks Raytheon to operate and maintain ROTHR over-the-horizon surveillance radar
The .gov is using HF why? No Sats exist is why....
Why does the Navy have an interest in over the horizon radar? Because the Earth is round.
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Go buy your fleet a system to monitor your peeps.
https://at-communication.com/en/hf_ssb_gps_internav/codan/hf_ssb_gps.html
HF GPS Tracking
Using GPS, Codan’s High Frequency (HF) technology now provides a viable and cost-effective option for managing:
The GPS system can be configured so that the base station keeps track of the current location of all of the transceivers in a network.
As HF transmissions are free to air, the technology offers considerable price advantages over satellite communications systems, which usually charge a time-based fee.
More of the same. You really should just hang it up. I guess you did a Google search and found a page with both "GPS" and "HF" and then immediately posted it.
Posting links to articles you don't understand doesn't help your case.
Here is a quote from that page that you seemed to skip over
The Global Positioning System (GPS) consists of a network of satellite transmitters in orbit around the earth. Each of the satellites continuously broadcasts a reference signal. A ground-based GPS receiver can accurately determine its position on the earth if it receives a signal from three these GPS satellites.
Do you notice any similarities with that explanation to what I and others have posted? Does that tell you anything? It should.
Why do you use reference material that contradicts your core belief?
But the bottom line is this. The product they advertise isn't GPS. It is a product that uses HF radio to track vehicles, cargo, and other things that have GPS receivers. They are devices that take coordinates from a GPS receiver and transmit them, using HF, to a central (or base) station.
Only a mtn man who never leaves the cave doesn't understand GPS and Radar are virtually the same thing. And this company is offering an alternative to spending big bucks on Sats that don't exist. There paying for sats and getting towers, balloons, repeaters and HF.
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Navy asks Raytheon to operate and maintain ROTHR over-the-horizon surveillance radar
The .gov is using HF why? No Sats exist is why....
Why does the Navy have an interest in over the horizon radar? Because the Earth is round.
That doesn't answer it, if these sats are up there, 1,000's of them, command a few and have the best GPS surveillance in the world. Why even bother with HF? You can't answer that but I can, there's a dome silly and the earth is a pancake.
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Only a mtn man who never leaves the cave doesn't understand GPS and Radar are virtually the same thing. And this company is offering an alternative to spending big bucks on Sats that don't exist. There paying for sats and getting towers, balloons, repeaters and HF.
Have to try and post quickly before you suspend me.
GPS and radar both use electromagnetic radiation, AKA radio waves. That is where their similarity ends.
BTW, here is another quote from that companie's website
To operate GPS via HF you will need
Mobile station
Codan HF transceiver NGT AR, NGT AR Voice, NGT SR fitted with Option GPS
GPS receiver with NMEA-0183 compatible output format
See, their website, which you referenced, says you still need a GPS receiver. Case closed.
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Navy asks Raytheon to operate and maintain ROTHR over-the-horizon surveillance radar
The .gov is using HF why? No Sats exist is why....
Why does the Navy have an interest in over the horizon radar? Because the Earth is round.
That doesn't answer it, if these sats are up there, 1,000's of them, command a few and have the best GPS surveillance in the world. Why even bother with HF? You can't answer that but I can, there's a dome silly and the earth is a pancake.
Let's ask this question a different way.
Why would the U.S. Navy have an interest in over the horizon radar if the Earth was flat?
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Only a mtn man who never leaves the cave doesn't understand GPS and Radar are virtually the same thing. And this company is offering an alternative to spending big bucks on Sats that don't exist. There paying for sats and getting towers, balloons, repeaters and HF.
Have to try and post quickly before you suspend me.
GPS and radar both use electromagnetic radiation, AKA radio waves. That is where their similarity ends.
BTW, here is another quote from that companie's website
To operate GPS via HF you will need
Mobile station
Codan HF transceiver NGT AR, NGT AR Voice, NGT SR fitted with Option GPS
GPS receiver with NMEA-0183 compatible output format
See, their website, which you referenced, says you still need a GPS receiver. Case closed.
Not so fast cave dweller. That has nothing to do with the GPS receiver making contact with a Sat. Here's a link to the product and on page 45 you will see this as what it is for. To pinpoint your distance from a remote transceiver.
"If you have Option GPS Enable installed, and a GPS receiver
connected, you can view your own position, and the distance
and bearing to a remote transceiver from which you have
received a position."
"The transceiver calculates the distance to the remote
transceiver and its bearing from true north with respect to your current location." In this example it was 1832km, obviously not a sat.
https://kupdf.com/downloadFile/597da733dc0d60cb062bb181?preview=1
Heres a video of HF GPS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaCEv6rDlKc
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Go buy your fleet a system to monitor your peeps.
https://at-communication.com/en/hf_ssb_gps_internav/codan/hf_ssb_gps.html
HF GPS Tracking
Using GPS, Codan’s High Frequency (HF) technology now provides a viable and cost-effective option for managing:
The GPS system can be configured so that the base station keeps track of the current location of all of the transceivers in a network.
As HF transmissions are free to air, the technology offers considerable price advantages over satellite communications systems, which usually charge a time-based fee.
These systems USE the UHF GPS signal to MONITOR where their HF radio nodes are physically located. This isn't "How GPS works" - it's "One tiny application of GPS".
Your cellphone doesn't have a 5 meter antenna - so it doesn't use HF radio.
Only a mtn man who never leaves the cave doesn't understand GPS and Radar are virtually the same thing. And this company is offering an alternative to spending big bucks on Sats that don't exist. There paying for sats and getting towers, balloons, repeaters and HF.
That isn't remotely what that company does. Why don't you actually READ what you linked to?
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Nice try qeek, the tech is waaaay past your puny little muscles. They can pinpoint a gnat on horses ass halfway around the globe if the horse farts a couple good times.
Are we just brushing off the fact jman just referenced a round globe?
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"If you have Option GPS Enable installed, and a GPS receiver
connected, you can view your own position, and the distance
and bearing to a remote transceiver from which you have
received a position."
(Emphasis mine)
What part of "and a GPS receiver connected" do you not understand?
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Only a mtn man who never leaves the cave doesn't understand GPS and Radar are virtually the same thing. And this company is offering an alternative to spending big bucks on Sats that don't exist. There paying for sats and getting towers, balloons, repeaters and HF.
Have to try and post quickly before you suspend me.
GPS and radar both use electromagnetic radiation, AKA radio waves. That is where their similarity ends.
BTW, here is another quote from that companie's website
To operate GPS via HF you will need
Mobile station
Codan HF transceiver NGT AR, NGT AR Voice, NGT SR fitted with Option GPS
GPS receiver with NMEA-0183 compatible output format
See, their website, which you referenced, says you still need a GPS receiver. Case closed.
Not so fast cave dweller. That has nothing to do with the GPS receiver making contact with a Sat. Here's a link to the product and on page 45 you will see this as what it is for. To pinpoint your distance from a remote transceiver.
"If you have Option GPS Enable installed, and a GPS receiver
connected, you can view your own position, and the distance
and bearing to a remote transceiver from which you have
received a position."
"The transceiver calculates the distance to the remote
transceiver and its bearing from true north with respect to your current location." In this example it was 1832km, obviously not a sat.
https://kupdf.com/downloadFile/597da733dc0d60cb062bb181?preview=1
Heres a video of HF GPS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaCEv6rDlKc
You DO understand you can't put a HF receiver in your phone, regardless of the rest of these ideas right?
https://www.instructables.com/answers/How-do-you-determine-the-length-of-an-antenna-and-/
According to your video, HF waves are from 3-30 MHz. That gives us an antenna of 100-10m in size. Quarter wave still gives us a minimum size of 2.5m. I don't know about you, but my phone isn't over 2m in size to house an antenna like that.
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Split/moved off-topic posts.