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Offline Rushy

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Transgender Rights
« on: February 24, 2016, 12:36:40 AM »
Seattle, WA recently passed an interesting new law as a man in Seattle was happy to point out. The rule allowed anyone who identified as the opposite sex to enter that opposite sex's changing rooms. This law's problem became apparent when the man entered the women's locker room and started changing. Since it is now illegal to remove him, any woman using the locker room would simply have to deal with their new changing buddy. Seattle has basically turned all of their locker rooms co-ed.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/02/17/transgender-rule-washington-state-man-undresses-locker-room/80501904/

At what point do you believe a person becomes transgender? Does it start when they undergo a physical change or do they simply have to be a "man stuck in a woman's body" or vice-verse? Shouldn't we just accept Starship Trooper style co-ed locker rooms and showers now? If women can like women and men can like men, I don't see why gendered locker rooms exist in the first place. Any arguments for or against them?

Offline model 29

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Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2016, 06:23:50 AM »
I don't see a problem.  Surely the left-wing liberals that run that city actually read and understood the law that they were passing, and not simply pushing it through purely on an emotional basis.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2016, 06:54:07 AM »
Considering he didn't identify as a woman, I'm failing to see why he wasn't removed.

The fault here lies with enforcement, not the law itself.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2016, 07:49:57 AM »
Considering he didn't identify as a woman, I'm failing to see why he wasn't removed.

The fault here lies with enforcement, not the law itself.

So all he really had to do as far as you're concerned was lie (assuming he doesn't in truth identify as a woman), and problem solved?

Why can't it just be understood that if she's in the women's locker room she identifies as a woman?  Why should the poor gal be expected to be put in the humiliating position where she must defend her life choices on a constant basis?  Must she have to explain every time she uses the restroom that she is a transgender and the law protects her right to use the ladies' room?

The intolerance.  >o<
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline rooster

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Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2016, 02:42:38 PM »
I'm not against co-ed changing rooms.
I can't even take my boyfriend in a dressing room to see how an outfit looks. I have to come out of the room to parade an outfit just because he has a peen.

And I always thought that separate changing rooms were for people with all the same parts, not their mentality. Even if someone identifies as a woman, if they have all their man parts still then I think they should be going to men's rooms. I see it as no different than a super butch lesbian using the female rooms. But if they're going to make the law that lax where anyone can just lie about it then they should just go full co-ed and be done with it.

Thork

Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 03:19:34 PM »
There is no such thing as transgender (well there is but I'll clear that up in a sec and it is a very rare genetic condition).

Lets take Bruce Jenner. A man, a father who decides we wants to dress like a woman. A transvestite. At this point, not a transsexual. He then goes and has his nuts cut off. That's a eunuch. A castrated man in a dress. He then has some plastic surgery. That's Michael Jackson. He pumps himself full of hormones, that's a drug addict. None of these things change his sex in the slightest.

Every single cell in his body has an xy chromosome. It is male. He is male. Every brain cell, nerve, tissue all male. He is 100% male, albeit he has mutilated himself.

Now there are transsexuals. It is rare. Women have xx. Men have xy. Some unfortunate sods get xxy. If you get that, I think you should be able to pick which changing room you would like (you end up being very androgynous anyway). Anything else is just someone pretending to be something they are not. I can't enter the 3:15pm at Cheltenam with a jockey on my back because I'm not a horse. I can complain its my dream. I can say I feel like a horse and identify as a horse. I can have surgery to alter my ears and have fur implants and cosmetic dentistry to make me look more like a horse. I can eat winniepro and take horse hormones, I can crawl on all fours, sleep in a stable and wear a bridle. But I'm still not a horse, my dna will be human.

Transgender is bullshit, and anyone with xy chromosomes in a woman's changing room should be imprisoned for gross indecency.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 07:04:26 PM by Dr David Thork »

Rama Set

Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2016, 10:54:28 PM »
Transgender is bullshit, and anyone with xy chromosomes in a woman's changing room should be imprisoned for gross indecency.

Well this post was not unexpected from you, neither was your unwillingness to acknowledge that gender is not identified solely by physiology.

Thork

Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2016, 11:29:32 PM »
Transgender is bullshit, and anyone with xy chromosomes in a woman's changing room should be imprisoned for gross indecency.

Well this post was not unexpected from you, neither was your unwillingness to acknowledge that gender is not identified solely by physiology.

Gender is physiological. Only a complete idiot would think gender is a state of mind. You can hope, dream, wish, want, believe and think you are a giant carrot. It doesn't make it so. Don't force me and everyone else to acknowledge and treat you like one. You aren't a carrot, you're just a mad guy who wants everyone to think he's a carrot accusing anyone who suggests that you aren't a healthy orange food type of being intolerant and a vegetablist. And here we are again, with another thread titled 'nutcase who thinks he is a carrot demanding rights for vegetables'.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 11:36:09 PM by Dr David Thork »

Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2016, 12:00:40 AM »
til gender is like vegetables or something
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

Rama Set

Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2016, 12:04:08 AM »
Transgender is bullshit, and anyone with xy chromosomes in a woman's changing room should be imprisoned for gross indecency.

Well this post was not unexpected from you, neither was your unwillingness to acknowledge that gender is not identified solely by physiology.

Gender is physiological.

Medical science and the dictionary disagree with you.


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Offline Rushy

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Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2016, 12:11:46 AM »
Regardless of Thork's inability to tell the difference between sex and gender, I believe co-ed locker rooms are the best option.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2016, 12:16:16 AM »
I just don't understand modern society . A dude wants to pretend he's a chick and we're supposed to just play along, but a white chick wants to pretend she's black and she's a monster.

If a person can dictate his own gender despite the way he was born, why can't a person dictate her own race as well? Can a person choose to identify as a cat, and should we be expected to play along with that as well? Where do we draw the line exactly? 
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 03:47:27 AM by Roundy »
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline rooster

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Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2016, 12:16:59 AM »
Regardless of Thork's inability to tell the difference between sex and gender, I believe co-ed locker rooms are the best option.
I'd get to check out all the penii. Sounds good to me.

Rama Set

Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2016, 03:44:34 AM »
I just don't understand modern society . A dude wants to pretend he's a chick and we're supposed to just play along, but a white chick wants to pretend she's black and she's a monster
If a person can dictate his own gender despite the way he was born, why can't a person dictate her own race as well?

Not sure, I would want to ask a doctor or psychologist.  Personally, I am not a fan of identifying by race since it smacks of out-group mentality.

Quote
Can a person choose to identify as a cat, and should we be expected to play along with that as well? Where do we draw the line exactly?

I think they do and cease to be contributing members of society because of the lack of human language and genital licking.  We give them a safe place to in a hospital to live out this existence.

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2016, 09:34:29 AM »
Thork, do you even know whether you're xx or xy? I know that I don't, I simply make assumptions based on my genitals and how I feel about my gender.

As for this case, I think that it would be fair to ask him, at the very least, what gender he identified as, especially if he presented no visible markers of being a woman. The law seems to state - from the article itself:

"As far as policy to protect everyone, Seattle Parks spokesman David Takami says they're still working on the issue. Right now, there's no specific protocol for how someone should demonstrate their gender in order to access a bathroom.  Employees just rely on verbal identification or physical appearance, and this man offered neither."

This is an issue which just needs a little ironing out.


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Offline xasop

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Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2016, 10:03:16 AM »
Can we just have unisex toilets and change rooms already? I don't give a shit what's between the legs or inside the head of the person trying clothes on next to me. Quite frankly, when I'm in a change room I have more pressing matters on my mind.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2016, 10:05:48 AM »
Transgender is bullshit, and anyone with xy chromosomes in a woman's changing room should be imprisoned for gross indecency.

Well this post was not unexpected from you, neither was your unwillingness to acknowledge that gender is not identified solely by physiology.

Gender is physiological. Only a complete idiot would think gender is a state of mind. You can hope, dream, wish, want, believe and think you are a giant carrot. It doesn't make it so. Don't force me and everyone else to acknowledge and treat you like one. You aren't a carrot, you're just a mad guy who wants everyone to think he's a carrot accusing anyone who suggests that you aren't a healthy orange food type of being intolerant and a vegetablist. And here we are again, with another thread titled 'nutcase who thinks he is a carrot demanding rights for vegetables'.

The brain also plays a role.  Your DNA tells you what parts you have but your brain tells you what parts you should have and how to behave.  Its like being gay: the wiring in your head that should tell you to be attracted to the opposite gender is crossed and you're attracted to the same sex.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2016, 10:52:13 AM »
the wiring in your head that should tell you to be attracted to the opposite gender is crossed and you're attracted to the same sex.
So it's a defect.
The Mastery.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2016, 12:07:47 PM »
the wiring in your head that should tell you to be attracted to the opposite gender is crossed and you're attracted to the same sex.
So it's a defect.
Pretty much, yeah.

In the same way a heart murmur is.  Or autism. 
Doesn't make them any less human or deserving of respect, but its not how humans are supposed to be.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Rama Set

Re: Transgender Rights
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2016, 03:14:20 PM »
the wiring in your head that should tell you to be attracted to the opposite gender is crossed and you're attracted to the same sex.
So it's a defect.
Pretty much, yeah.

In the same way a heart murmur is.  Or autism. 
Doesn't make them any less human or deserving of respect, but its not how humans are supposed to be.

Akexander the great exploited the biological imperative to improve men's survival instinct.  Perhaps that sort of connection is the evolutionary value of homosexuality.