How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« on: August 01, 2021, 05:15:57 PM »
I figured this would be frequently addressed but I couldn't find it (so if it has please just point me there).

Suppose you start out 1,000 miles north of the south pole (of for FEers the ice wall) and fly due south and continue on that same locked heading for 2,000 miles.
Where do you end up 2,000 miles laster?  In reality you end up in what the FE model says is the other side of the disk, but that can't be so ??   Even ignoring that
no one has ever seen this claimed ice wall, doesn't just overlying the pole prove it really is the bottom of the ball?

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Online xasop

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Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2021, 06:24:15 PM »
In reality you end up in what the FE model says is the other side of the disk
How do you know that?
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2021, 06:52:12 PM »
In reality you end up in what the FE model says is the other side of the disk
How do you know that?
The Qantas Santiago Chile to Aukland NewZealand flight is pretty close.  Why does that flight not fly due west? 
Plus there are the many circumnavigations of Antarctica by ship that do not take nearly the needed time to go around the disk of the FE model.
There of course have been many expeditions to Antartica with no evidence of the ice wall that would have to be extremely high (100 mies?) to contain the atmosphere and hence be easy to see.

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Online xasop

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Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2021, 07:45:54 PM »
The Qantas Santiago Chile to Aukland NewZealand flight is pretty close.
It was (not is — Qantas has not operated that route in over a year) nowhere near close. At its southermost point, it passed around 4000 km from the south pole.

Why does that flight not fly due west?
Plus there are the many circumnavigations of Antarctica by ship that do not take nearly the needed time to go around the disk of the FE model.
There of course have been many expeditions to Antartica with no evidence of the ice wall that would have to be extremely high (100 mies?) to contain the atmosphere and hence be easy to see.
Irrelevant. If you want to discuss a different topic, you can create another thread for that. Do you have evidence for your claims regarding flying over the south pole or not?
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2021, 10:28:59 PM »
The Qantas Santiago Chile to Aukland NewZealand flight is pretty close.
It was (not is — Qantas has not operated that route in over a year) nowhere near close. At its southermost point, it passed around 4000 km from the south pole.

Why does that flight not fly due west?
Plus there are the many circumnavigations of Antarctica by ship that do not take nearly the needed time to go around the disk of the FE model.
There of course have been many expeditions to Antartica with no evidence of the ice wall that would have to be extremely high (100 mies?) to contain the atmosphere and hence be easy to see.
Irrelevant. If you want to discuss a different topic, you can create another thread for that. Do you have evidence for your claims regarding flying over the south pole or not?

Its exactly the same topic.  The route is what is needed for a round death, not a flat earth.  The fact that it did not go directly over the pole is irrelevant to question of geometry.

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Online xasop

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Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2021, 06:20:12 AM »
Its exactly the same topic.  The route is what is needed for a round death, not a flat earth.  The fact that it did not go directly over the pole is irrelevant to question of geometry.
I would suggest reading the thread title if you are still confused about the topic of the thread. I'm not going to engage if you are just going to bring up something else every time I ask for evidence you don't have — that would just be an endless game of goalpost-shifting.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2021, 07:20:24 AM »
Where is the South Pole in the FE model? Most FE models have the wall of ice surrounding the earth, so is the South Pole somewhere along that perimeter? If so then if you head due south in it’s direction then once you get past the South Pole you would surely just fly over the edge of the disc, no?
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Online xasop

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Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2021, 07:46:17 AM »
Where is the South Pole in the FE model? Most FE models have the wall of ice surrounding the earth, so is the South Pole somewhere along that perimeter?
The "south pole" is a RET concept that corresponds to a circle in FET, centred on the north pole, with twice the radius of the equator. In that sense, it is not really a pole in FET.

If so then if you head due south in it’s direction then once you get past the South Pole you would surely just fly over the edge of the disc, no?
That depends on where the edge is, or if there even is one. The region beyond 90°S latitude is unexplored. It is possible that the frozen wastelands of Antarctica continue for many thousands of kilometres beyond that.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2021, 09:12:36 AM »
Right. Except Pole to Pole circumnavigation trips have occurred.
Looking at the routes of those, they don’t go straight on at the South Pole, so maybe the FE explanation (if you accept that these things happened) is that the planes had to turn back. But I’m not sure those routes work well on a FE map. You don’t have to Pac-Man, but the two bits of land north of Antarctica which the planes go from and to - which is the reason for the turn at the South Pole - are on different sides of the FE map.

This is one of the fundamental FE problems. Lines of longitude which converge at the Poles actually have to continue spreading out in the South. Unless you go for one of the bi-Polar FE models but that creates more problems than it solves.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

Offline Action80

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Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2021, 10:28:27 AM »
Right. Except Pole to Pole circumnavigation trips have occurred.
Looking at the routes of those, they don’t go straight on at the South Pole
That do not happen to be pole to pole.

Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2021, 11:59:31 AM »
Right. Except Pole to Pole circumnavigation trips have occurred.
Looking at the routes of those, they don’t go straight on at the South Pole
That do not happen to be pole to pole.
Ok. Well how about you look the route of one of them up and show how it maps to a flat earth map.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

Offline Action80

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Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2021, 12:13:53 PM »
Right. Except Pole to Pole circumnavigation trips have occurred.
Looking at the routes of those, they don’t go straight on at the South Pole
That do not happen to be pole to pole.
Ok. Well how about you look the route of one of them up and show how it maps to a flat earth map.
Well, how about eliminating what you wrote to begin.

You write, "Pole to Pole circumnavigation trips have occurred."

Immediately after that, you write, "Looking at the routes of those, they don’t go straight on at the South Pole."

Meaning that is not pole to pole.

Obviously, since the maps and charts used were flat, it worked just fine.

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Offline stack

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Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2021, 01:44:25 PM »
Right. Except Pole to Pole circumnavigation trips have occurred.
Looking at the routes of those, they don’t go straight on at the South Pole
That do not happen to be pole to pole.
Ok. Well how about you look the route of one of them up and show how it maps to a flat earth map.
Well, how about eliminating what you wrote to begin.

You write, "Pole to Pole circumnavigation trips have occurred."

Immediately after that, you write, "Looking at the routes of those, they don’t go straight on at the South Pole."

Meaning that is not pole to pole.

Obviously, since the maps and charts used were flat, it worked just fine.

Apparently this guy is pretty convinced he flew Pole-to-Pole:

San Diego Pilot Completes ‘Pole to Pole’ Circumnavigation
"San Diego resident Robert DeLaurentis, an aviator and former Navy officer, described his unique journey Wednesday after completing a nine-month circumnavigation from the South Pole to the North Pole to spread a message of peace."
https://timesofsandiego.com/life/2020/08/12/san-diego-pilot-completes-pole-to-pole-circumnavigation/

Pan Am apparently pulled it off too back in '77:

How Pan Am Flight 50 flew from pole to pole
"The one-time-only flight on Boeing's new special performance 747 began in San Francisco, flew over the North Pole and stopped at its next destination: London.

After refueling the plane jetted on to South Africa. Next, it flew over the South Pole and landed in New Zealand before taking off again and ending up back in San Francisco.
Total time: 54 hours, seven minutes and 12 seconds. The record-setting average speed, according to the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale: 487 mph (784 km/hr).
"

The route:



https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/pole-to-pole-pan-am-flight-50/index.html




Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2021, 09:43:56 PM »
You write, "Pole to Pole circumnavigation trips have occurred."

Immediately after that, you write, "Looking at the routes of those, they don’t go straight on at the South Pole."

Meaning that is not pole to pole.

That isn't what it means. Obviously there are practicalities involved, the plane has to fly from and to land masses.
But look at the routes which the last couple of posts have shown. Can you show how those would work in a FE map?
The first one goes from the tip of Africa to the South Pole and then from there to New Zealand

Can you see the issue of doing that on this FE Map, from your Wiki?

"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2021, 12:20:44 AM »
You write, "Pole to Pole circumnavigation trips have occurred."

Immediately after that, you write, "Looking at the routes of those, they don’t go straight on at the South Pole."

Meaning that is not pole to pole.

That isn't what it means. Obviously there are practicalities involved, the plane has to fly from and to land masses.
But look at the routes which the last couple of posts have shown. Can you show how those would work in a FE map?
The first one goes from the tip of Africa to the South Pole and then from there to New Zealand

Can you see the issue of doing that on this FE Map, from your Wiki?



This seems like a too important thread to just bleed out without an answer.

I think an excellent point has been made and I'm quite curious about any responses from either side.
Any takers?
~No Ordinary Moments~

Offline scomato

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Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2021, 07:44:46 PM »
Without being limited to planes, humanity flies over the south pole every day. Check out this space map of satellite orbits. https://maps.esri.com/rc/sat2/index.html

You can identify dozens of satellites that pass over Antarctica every day.



According to data online, Taurus R/B is a https://www.celestis.com/ launch containing the cremated remains of 29 people. Morbid! I also found some details about the flight, and it's dead passengers: https://www.celestis.com/launch-schedule/ad-astra-flight/

Here's another one - https://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=34361 It's satellite debris from Iridium 33, caused by this event: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_33#Destruction and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_satellite_collision
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 07:54:40 PM by scomato »

Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2021, 08:26:08 PM »
Right. Except Pole to Pole circumnavigation trips have occurred.
Looking at the routes of those, they don’t go straight on at the South Pole
That do not happen to be pole to pole.
Ok. Well how about you look the route of one of them up and show how it maps to a flat earth map.
Well, how about eliminating what you wrote to begin.

You write, "Pole to Pole circumnavigation trips have occurred."

Immediately after that, you write, "Looking at the routes of those, they don’t go straight on at the South Pole."

Meaning that is not pole to pole.

Obviously, since the maps and charts used were flat, it worked just fine.

Apparently this guy is pretty convinced he flew Pole-to-Pole:

San Diego Pilot Completes ‘Pole to Pole’ Circumnavigation
"San Diego resident Robert DeLaurentis, an aviator and former Navy officer, described his unique journey Wednesday after completing a nine-month circumnavigation from the South Pole to the North Pole to spread a message of peace."
https://timesofsandiego.com/life/2020/08/12/san-diego-pilot-completes-pole-to-pole-circumnavigation/

Pan Am apparently pulled it off too back in '77:

How Pan Am Flight 50 flew from pole to pole
"The one-time-only flight on Boeing's new special performance 747 began in San Francisco, flew over the North Pole and stopped at its next destination: London.

After refueling the plane jetted on to South Africa. Next, it flew over the South Pole and landed in New Zealand before taking off again and ending up back in San Francisco.
Total time: 54 hours, seven minutes and 12 seconds. The record-setting average speed, according to the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale: 487 mph (784 km/hr).
"

The route:



https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/pole-to-pole-pan-am-flight-50/index.html


Scomato I believe Satellites exist and fly over all parts of the world.  But because of refraction the images may be warped in some instances. 

I mapped out Pan Am 50's circumpolar flight on a South Centered FE Map.



Using this information, I don't see why it's impossible for a flight to travel along a Flat Earth and arrive at the same results.   Their flight path looks very similar to the "great circle" paths commercial pilots use today (in red).  And keep in mind that anybody who arrives at 90'N latitude assumes they are at the North Pole (as per RE Theory). 

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Offline stack

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Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2021, 08:37:19 PM »
Right. Except Pole to Pole circumnavigation trips have occurred.
Looking at the routes of those, they don’t go straight on at the South Pole
That do not happen to be pole to pole.
Ok. Well how about you look the route of one of them up and show how it maps to a flat earth map.
Well, how about eliminating what you wrote to begin.

You write, "Pole to Pole circumnavigation trips have occurred."

Immediately after that, you write, "Looking at the routes of those, they don’t go straight on at the South Pole."

Meaning that is not pole to pole.

Obviously, since the maps and charts used were flat, it worked just fine.

Apparently this guy is pretty convinced he flew Pole-to-Pole:

San Diego Pilot Completes ‘Pole to Pole’ Circumnavigation
"San Diego resident Robert DeLaurentis, an aviator and former Navy officer, described his unique journey Wednesday after completing a nine-month circumnavigation from the South Pole to the North Pole to spread a message of peace."
https://timesofsandiego.com/life/2020/08/12/san-diego-pilot-completes-pole-to-pole-circumnavigation/

Pan Am apparently pulled it off too back in '77:

How Pan Am Flight 50 flew from pole to pole
"The one-time-only flight on Boeing's new special performance 747 began in San Francisco, flew over the North Pole and stopped at its next destination: London.

After refueling the plane jetted on to South Africa. Next, it flew over the South Pole and landed in New Zealand before taking off again and ending up back in San Francisco.
Total time: 54 hours, seven minutes and 12 seconds. The record-setting average speed, according to the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale: 487 mph (784 km/hr).
"

The route:



https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/pole-to-pole-pan-am-flight-50/index.html


Scomato I believe Satellites exist and fly over all parts of the world.  But because of refraction the images may be warped in some instances. 

I mapped out Pan Am 50's circumpolar flight on a South Centered FE Map.



Using this information, I don't see why it's impossible for a flight to travel along a Flat Earth and arrive at the same results.   Their flight path looks very similar to the "great circle" paths commercial pilots use today (in red).  And keep in mind that anybody who arrives at 90'N latitude assumes they are at the North Pole (as per RE Theory).

There's kind of an issue with your map. North is everywhere around the rim:


Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2021, 11:15:40 PM »
Technically it's not impossible - Field lines can expand from the center and wrap around the earth (or something) ...   Navigationally it would be tough since there's uncharted land out there and like I said, if you go far enough North people might assume it's the North Pole.

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Offline stack

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Re: How do FE proponents explain flying over the south pole?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2021, 07:32:33 AM »
Technically it's not impossible - Field lines can expand from the center and wrap around the earth (or something) ...   Navigationally it would be tough since there's uncharted land out there and like I said, if you go far enough North people might assume it's the North Pole.

How exactly is it not impossible?

On your map, for one, now Antarctica is the center of the flat earth, not the north pole? For two, you're saying on your map that if a pilot is navigating a plane from let's say Sydney and the destination is Tokyo, she/he would fly roughly due north, which on your map is the opposite of toward the north pole. Isn't that oddly confusing? It's not from a globe perspective, but from your map it's untenable in terms of navigational reality.