[juner]

Because Americans are retarded. They vote for whoever has an ad during their handegg game.

Very nice reductionism...

Thanks. I thought that post would resonate with you very well.

I imagine we agree more than we disagree so I don't know what you mean.

That is, until I convert you into a proper communist.

[garygreen]

the gop would be foaming at the mouth to impeach president hillary clinton if presented with an identical fact pattern.  and if senators pelosi and schumer went on tv talking about how they refused even the pretense of being an impartial juror, hannity would be dead right now.  he literally would've stoked out on his own show ranting about the sanctity of constitutional oaths.

edit: lol that's right.  senator pelosi.  totally exactly what she is.

[honk]

Trump has an ideology: Nationalism.  And its not going away unless he loses 2020.

A nationalist so fervent that he regularly whines and complains about his own government, openly admires foreign dictators, publicly sides with those dictators when they come into conflict with his own government, and has stated that he would (illegally) accept damaging information on political opponents from foreign governments. Trump pursues a nationalist agenda only when it doesn't conflict with his pro-Trump agenda, which is clearly his priority.

If he wins, do you really think the Republican party is going to say "Well, Trump kept us in power for 8 years.  Lets get someone not like him next!"
No, they're gonna go for the most Trump like candidate they can find.

They'll want someone "like" him to the extent that they'll want someone charismatic and popular, sure. But someone with Trump's personality or trollish tendencies? No, they don't want that. It's caused them nothing but trouble so far. The hardcore Trump fans may grumble when the next Republican candidate is a conventional politician and not another outrageous shit-stirrer, but they won't be switching parties or refusing to vote over it.

Hell, might even tap Ivanka.  A Trump AND a woman.  Two wins for the price of one.

Ivanka would absolutely be a conventional, civil politician in the way that her father clearly is not. A more likely suspect to continue Trump's legacy would be either Don Jr. or Eric, both of whom are willing to emulate his image of sleaze and crassness, but they're also both dumb as rocks and have none of their father's charisma or flair. There is not going to be another generation of Trumps ascending to the White House.

[Pete Svarrior]

Why don't your politicians ever retire? No one else in the world has octogenarians squabbling. Everyone else's politicians take a fat pension and piss off.

>tfw Thork of all people goes "ok boomer" on an entire nation's political class

Because Americans are retarded. They vote for whoever has an ad during their handegg game.

You forgot about the other half of America, who vote for whomever their favourite comedian supports on TV.

[Lord Dave]

Trump has an ideology: Nationalism.  And its not going away unless he loses 2020.

A nationalist so fervent that he regularly whines and complains about his own government, openly admires foreign dictators, publicly sides with those dictators when they come into conflict with his own government, and has stated that he would (illegally) accept damaging information on political opponents from foreign governments. Trump pursues a nationalist agenda only when it doesn't conflict with his pro-Trump agenda, which is clearly his priority.

Oh sure, HIS priority is himself, but he builds himself up with nationalism.  But here's the thing: He IS America.  So any part of America that's against him, is not American and needs to be 'cleaned' of its traitorous people.  Remember, nothing is more Unamerican than opposing The President (but only when its Trump).

If he wins, do you really think the Republican party is going to say "Well, Trump kept us in power for 8 years.  Lets get someone not like him next!"
No, they're gonna go for the most Trump like candidate they can find.

They'll want someone "like" him to the extent that they'll want someone charismatic and popular, sure. But someone with Trump's personality or trollish tendencies? No, they don't want that. It's caused them nothing but trouble so far. The hardcore Trump fans may grumble when the next Republican candidate is a conventional politician and not another outrageous shit-stirrer, but they won't be switching parties or refusing to vote over it.

They did try to Stop Trump in 2016 and failed.  Now they literally canceled primaries to keep him in power.  Do you really think the trollish tendencies are going to matter?  They've already decided not to oppose him. 

And true, people won't be switching votes, but you can bet they'll be voting for the most Trump like in the primaries.

Hell, might even tap Ivanka.  A Trump AND a woman.  Two wins for the price of one.

Ivanka would absolutely be a conventional, civil politician in the way that her father clearly is not. A more likely suspect to continue Trump's legacy would be either Don Jr. or Eric, both of whom are willing to emulate his image of sleaze and crassness, but they're also both dumb as rocks and have none of their father's charisma or flair. There is not going to be another generation of Trumps ascending to the White House.

You say that now but its not impossible.
*See Bush sr. And Bush jr.*

[Lord Dave]

In other Trump news: Trickle Down Economics still doesn't work.  Oh and Republicans are now Economically Democrats.

After 2 Years, Trump Tax Cuts Have Failed To Deliver On GOP's Promises https://www.npr.org/2019/12/20/789540931/2-years-later-trump-tax-cuts-have-failed-to-deliver-on-gops-promises?sc=18&f=1001

[honk]

Oh sure, HIS priority is himself, but he builds himself up with nationalism.  But here's the thing: He IS America.  So any part of America that's against him, is not American and needs to be 'cleaned' of its traitorous people.  Remember, nothing is more Unamerican than opposing The President (but only when its Trump).

Any unscrupulous president could denounce their critics as unpatriotic. That doesn't change the fact that Trump's "nationalism" is too incoherent and inconsistent to form a proper ideology that Republicans will support after he leaves office.

They did try to Stop Trump in 2016 and failed.  Now they literally canceled primaries to keep him in power.  Do you really think the trollish tendencies are going to matter?  They've already decided not to oppose him.

I'm talking about 2024, not this upcoming election. Of course Republicans aren't going to stab their own sitting president in the back.

And true, people won't be switching votes, but you can bet they'll be voting for the most Trump like in the primaries.

That's not how the appeal of a charismatic leader works. It's not like there's this linear gradient of Trump-like qualities that people can fall onto and the closer they get to Trump the more appealing to Republican voters they become. The whole package is what they want. It's not like Republican candidates following Reagan strove to be as Reagan-like as possible to win approval, or the Democratic candidates currently running for president are particularly Obama-like.

You say that now but its not impossible.
*See Bush sr. And Bush jr.*

This is not at all a relevant response to what I'm saying. You're just randomly, inexplicably pointing to a father and son who both became President as if that were somehow the basis for my skepticism for either of the Trump boys pursuing the office themselves. It is not. What is the basis is that they are both uncharismatic, untalented idiots. Even their famously nepotistic father couldn't find better roles for them than essentially being public yes-men for him. There is no political future for them that doesn't involve clinging onto someone bigger and better.

[Lord Dave]

No time to answer saddam now but here's this:

Trump Campaign Site Offers Help In Winning Arguments With 'Snowflake' Relatives https://www.npr.org/2019/12/24/791125357/trump-campaign-site-offers-help-in-winning-arguments-with-snowflake-relatives?sc=18&f=1001

How desperate do you need to be to make an actual website and video to help your supporters win arguments with family members?

[Rama Set]

He isn’t desperate, he is playing to his base.

[Lord Dave]

He isn’t desperate, he is playing to his base.

His base that can't win an argument against a liberal without 'talking tips'?

[Rama Set]

He isn’t desperate, he is playing to his base.

His base that can't win an argument against a liberal without 'talking tips'?

You’ve debated some of his base here. What do you think?

[honk]

He isn’t desperate, he is playing to his base.

His base that can't win an argument against a liberal without 'talking tips'?

Whether the readers of that website actually debate their liberal relatives is beside the point. This is just meant to excite Trump fans by impressing upon them that the facts are (supposedly) on their site and amuse them with the idea of triggering their "snowflake" relatives with their reasoned, logical support of the president. Like Rama said, this is red meat. It's for the benefit of Trump's base and nobody else.

[Lord Dave]

He isn’t desperate, he is playing to his base.

His base that can't win an argument against a liberal without 'talking tips'?

Whether the readers of that website actually debate their liberal relatives is beside the point. This is just meant to excite Trump fans by impressing upon them that the facts are (supposedly) on their site and amuse them with the idea of triggering their "snowflake" relatives with their reasoned, logical support of the president. Like Rama said, this is red meat. It's for the benefit of Trump's base and nobody else.

Yeah, fair.
God how I hate the belittling he does.  'snowflake'.  Ugh.  At this point he's normalized belittling opponents so much, I'm waiting for him to use "poopy head" in a debate.

[Tom Bishop]

[Lord Dave]

Yes, the persecutor that was super corrupt and every european nation wanted him gone.

Even so, if Trump wanted to investigate that, he should have from his end.
Also, the Ukrainians have determined there was nothing illegal or improper done.

Also also: Trump did the same thing, except replace fire with investigate.

[Tom Bishop]

Trump did not demand that a government prosecutor be fired. Trump alerted Ukraine to that possible criminal activity.

It was Biden who demanded that a government prosecutor be fired, with explicit threats.

Trump didn't threaten anyone in that call. Ukraine's president said he didn't feel pressured. Biden appears to be making a direct threat, however.

It is interesting that you think the situation is okay because you call a prosecutor corrupt. I am sure that you think that the prosecutor investigating the company that Biden's son worked for at the time of his dismissal was purely a coincidence, I am sure.

[Lord Dave]

Trump did not demand that a government prosecutor be fired. Trump alerted Ukraine to that possible criminal activity.

O.o
Wait wait wait.  Trump told The Ukrainian government that Biden threatened them 4 years ago?!  Either Trump has been in politics way longer than I thought or the Ukrainians are really slow to get a message.

Also: he didn't ask for a persecutor to be fired, he asked for an investigation to be announced.  One that had already been done years ago.
[/Quote]

It was Biden who demanded that a government prosecutor be fired, with explicit threats.

He absolutely did.  To root out corruption.  Which is ironic since Trump claims to be doing the same thing but has issues with Biden doing it.  And also only when Biden became a serious contender to the election...

Trump didn't threaten anyone in that call. Ukraine's president said he didn't feel pressured. Biden appears to be making a direct threat, however.

Listen, I hear your struggling.  I know you need that bank loan I've been holding up.  Speaking of that, I need a favor.....

Its cute how you think only explicit threats are threats.
Its also cute how you think a man who desperately needs Trump to like him, would turn on him.  That's like asking Republicans up for reelection to go against Trump publically.
Also also: Biden threatened to hold up money.  Trump actually did.  For months.

It is interesting that you think the situation is okay because you call a prosecutor corrupt. I am sure that you think that the prosecutor investigating the company that Biden's son worked for at the time of his dismissal was purely a coincidence, I am sure.

"The investigation dealt with the Ministry of Ecology, which allegedly granted special permits to Burisma between 2010 and 2012, the agency said. Hunter Biden did not join the company until 2014."
-USA Today

Also apparently, Bush's old CIA Counter Terrorism Chief joined that company in 2017.  Coincidence?  Yeah, probably.




But let me break down the arguments.

Biden and the international community used leverage to help clean out corruption in Ukraine.  Trump calls this criminal because there was a link to Biden's son.  The Ukrainian government found no wrong doings with Biden's son being hired.

Trump says he withheld Aide and used it as leverage because he ignored his own defense analysis and wanted to ensure Ukraine was not corrupt.  But apparently found it ok to send the aide after a whistleblower report was sent to Congress.

Have I got that right?

[Boots]

[Tom Bishop]

Biden and the international community used leverage to help clean out corruption in Ukraine.  Trump calls this criminal because there was a link to Biden's son.  The Ukrainian government found no wrong doings with Biden's son being hired.

Trump says he withheld Aide and used it as leverage because he ignored his own defense analysis and wanted to ensure Ukraine was not corrupt.  But apparently found it ok to send the aide after a whistleblower report was sent to Congress.

Have I got that right?

"The investigation dealt with the Ministry of Ecology, which allegedly granted special permits to Burisma between 2010 and 2012, the agency said. Hunter Biden did not join the company until 2014."
-USA Today

Actually, that says that the company was being investigated for something from 2010 to 2012. The investigation could have taken place in years after that.

That company proceeded to give Biden's unqualified son millions of dollars. You are calling it a coincidence!

Trump alerted Ukraine to possible criminal activity. Trump is clearly the good guy in this scenario, doing a good thing. Joe Biden is clearly corrupt and bad.

The money that you say that Trump was holding up was already held up for months before the phone call. Trump did not use it as a bargaining chip launch an investigation into Biden. Joe Biden directly uses money as a bargaining chip, with direct threats, to have a prosecutor fired, and then his family reaps rewards from a company involved.

[Lord Dave]

Biden and the international community used leverage to help clean out corruption in Ukraine.  Trump calls this criminal because there was a link to Biden's son.  The Ukrainian government found no wrong doings with Biden's son being hired.

Trump says he withheld Aide and used it as leverage because he ignored his own defense analysis and wanted to ensure Ukraine was not corrupt.  But apparently found it ok to send the aide after a whistleblower report was sent to Congress.

Have I got that right?

The company that was being investigated hired Biden's son immediately after Biden saved them from the prosecutor. That company then proceeded to give Biden's unqualified son millions of dollars. You are calling it a coincidence!

Umm... where are you getting that?  Trump himself is saying the opposite: That Biden's son worked for the company as it was being investigated.  Also, Biden's son joined in 2014.  The Persecutor was fired in 2016. 
And again, the Ukrainian government then investigated Biden's on being hired and found no wrong doings.  TOTAL EXONERATION!

Trump alerted Ukraine to possible criminal activity. Trump is clearly the good guy in this scenario, doing a good thing. Joe Biden is clearly corrupt and bad.

See above.  They literally knew all this shit already, investigated, found nothing wrong, and moved on.  Trump was literally asking to investigate something everyone else had dealt with years prior.

The money that you say that Trump was holding up was already held up for months before the phone call. Trump did not use it as a bargaining chip launch an investigation into Biden. Joe Biden directly uses money as a bargaining chip, with direct threats, to have a prosecutor fired, and then his family is immediately rewarded.

Yes it was.   What, you think that phone call was the first time the Ukrainian president has ever been briefed on what Trump expected of him?  There's literally pages and pages of conversations between US assets and Ukrainian officials on the subject prior to July 25th.