Max_Almond

Re: If a flat earth were proven - what then?
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2019, 06:59:26 AM »
If I recall correctly, one of these so-called NON-STOP flights on the way to Santiago had to miraculously make an emergency landing in ALASKA! LOL!

I would bet my life that you don't recall this correctly. I think you might be confusing Australia with Taiwan and Santiago with LA. They do sound quite similar.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 01:40:29 PM by Max_Almond »

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Offline AATW

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Re: If a flat earth were proven - what then?
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2019, 11:02:42 AM »
I get both your points entirely. The point of my original question is that I’m fascinated by the motivation for the FE belief in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Let’s face it - what we experience is exactly what we would experience living on an enormous sphere (and we can watch the Earth from space 24/7 on live-feed from the ISS). Why try to argue otherwise? I wonder what the value of the belief is?

I would encourage FEers to consider my original question seriously. Consider what life would be like not to have to argue for this belief (remember that in the thought experiment in the OP the question has been proven in your favour and universally accepted), what would life be like? In theory this thought experiment could lead you to realising its value to you now ie. the value to you holding the FE belief. Understanding that can open all sorts of mental doors...
Honestly, my feeling is if we lived on a flat earth - so ships didn't sink behind the horizon, the horizon was more of a fading out of the land/sea rather than a sharp line and so on - we would be currently be talking on the globe earth society board which would claim that the earth is really a globe. So their Wiki would have things like "Why don't ships sink below the horizon" and the answer would be some kind of optical effect about light bending round the curve of the globe to make it look like the earth is flat. They'd claim that all NASA's photos from space showing the flat disc have been faked, all the astronauts claiming to have seen it are liars. They would say that gravity is equivalent to UA so how do we know we're accelerating upwards when all our observations are of things falling to earth. And so on.

I do find the psychology of this interesting but it seems to be quite wrapped up in the conspiracy theory mindset, the idea that "they" are hiding things from us. Which they probably are, but this isn't one of them. And there's a section of FE believers who base their belief on the Bible and the (in my view misguided) belief that the Bible is trying to teach them science and they interpret certain verses as describing a geocentric flat earth. Ironically this FE belief comes across a religion with Rowbotham as their prophet.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

manicminer

Re: If a flat earth were proven - what then?
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2019, 12:58:26 PM »
Regarding the conspiracy theory mindset, I am sure that any members of federal agencies who do happen to come across any websites like this one would find it amusing that anyone in this day and age would seriously think that there is any question still about the shape and form of the Earth.  Of course the easiest way to deal with any organisation that can provide compelling evidence that opposes a particular point of view is to dismiss it as conspiracy and lies. There are far too many independent and private organisations both big and small who have provided the same evidence though and they cannot be dismissed in the same way.

You touch on the 'prophet' of all FE believers, Rowbotham.  I carried out an investigation of my own regarding his method, described in his own words, of working out the distance of the Sun above a flat Earth. A description of how I went about this investigation, as well a full explanation as to why I consider him to be wrong is described under Flat Earth Investigations.  I posted that over two weeks ago now but as yet no replies have been posted.  Why might that be?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 01:01:33 PM by manicminer »

totallackey

Re: If a flat earth were proven - what then?
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2019, 01:49:59 PM »
So when you say that the majority of communications takes place below 10 miles -- if you mean wireless, you're wrong.
No, I am not.
So then do you deny that there are very roughly a billion satellite TV dishes receiving signals from transmitters that are above 10 miles AMSL? (Above Mean Sea Level)
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You have no methods of personally verifying where those transmitters are even located, let alone their altitude.
Nearly all communications originates and is received at a point below 10 miles in altitude.
Except the one billion satellite TV customers, who are receiving a signal from above 10 miles? Or are you slicing a technicality maneuver and saying that even though there are a billion consumers each receiving those transmissions, they are only transmitted from a handful of satellites?
Or are you saying that the data transmitted from satellites originates from below 10 miles before being retransmitted from above 10 miles and therefore doesn't count?
See above.
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The only reason hop points exist is to maintain signal strength and reliability.

It has nothing to do with the mythological globe earth.
But a bigger dish antenna and a more powerful transmitter can also increase signal strength and reliability at a fraction of the cost of putting an intermediate hop.
Remember, to have an intermediate hop, you gotta buy/lease the land, maybe cut a road to a mountain top, maybe even run power up there, as well in most countries as licensing another radio site. Much much more expensive than just using bigger dishes and more powerful transmitters!
Get back to the thread with some real cash dollar figures on that...

Will be awaiting here breathlessly for your research.
But seriously, if you really think radio link engineers don't use earth curve in their link distances (rightly or wrongly) then just find me a link that's farther than the curved earth math allows.
The fact that they don't use longer links doesn't mean the earth is curved, it just means they believe it's curved and they are just going by what they learned in school without questioning it.
No, they are going by what they know to be reliable transmission strength based on real experience.
My argument here isn't that the earth is curved because radio link engineers believe the earth is curved, only that their practice of putting up radio links is hindered due to their false belief in a curved earth. In other words, if they knew the truth and knew it was flat, they could do longer links for cheaper!
No, they don't do longer links because signal strength is lost the longer the signal is out there.
But if you think I'm wrong, then find me a single-hop microwave link (or a single segment of one) where the radio path would cut through the earth if the earth was curved.
I will check into it and if it checks out to my satisfaction I'll happily admit that at least one radio engineer ignored the round earth belief. You said I'm wrong, so please show me. Fair enough?   ;D
Nice strawman there Dorothy!

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Offline TomFoolery

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Re: If a flat earth were proven - what then?
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2019, 03:36:08 PM »
Nice strawman there Dorothy!

Seriously, I'm not making it up. Just google Microwave Link Engineering Earth Curvature.
I did and here's a presentation given by Evans Engineering where Ben Evans clearly talks about the importance of keeping the earth's curved shape in mind:
http://evansengsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Ben-Evans-Presentation.pdf
Here's another one:
http://www.ece.mcgill.ca/~info413/lecture%20note/B1%20Radio%20Propagation%20&%20LOS%20Comm%20[Compatibility%20Mode].pdf
(See page 7)

And there's tons more, but you can operate google as good as I so go get busy, and come back and try and tell me that microwave link engineers don't make earth curve assumptions in their calculations.

Just open your eyes a tiny little crack and look around! Radio microwave link engineers are constantly talking about curve this and curve that.

Their belief in the curve is a significant limiting factor!

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Offline EarthIsNotRound

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Re: If a flat earth were proven - what then?
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2019, 11:56:25 PM »
If the Earth were proved to be flat
I think we all here have proven earth is flat and you globers have too low of an intelligence to believe us.
🌎=🐢+🐘+🗺

I Believe The Earth Is On The Back Of Elephants On The Back Of A Turtle. If You Have Any Proof Otherwise, Please Show Me As I Would Love To Gain A Greater Understanding About Earth. Thank You 😗👍

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-science-behind-discworlds-flat-earth-on-the-back-o-802628932

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Offline juner

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Re: If a flat earth were proven - what then?
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2019, 11:59:58 PM »
If the Earth were proved to be flat
I think we all here have proven earth is flat and you globers have too low of an intelligence to believe us.

Pick an account before everything gets perma banned.

Bishthebosh

Re: If a flat earth were proven - what then?
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2019, 01:41:25 AM »
If the Earth were proved to be flat
I think we all here have proven earth is flat and you globers have too low of an intelligence to believe us.

Please could you provide links to these proofs? I’ve been reading the wiki and tons of discussions and haven’t seen anything approaching “proof”.

On the globe side, whatever you may say, are ranged the most brilliant minds of the last several centuries and the inconvenient (for you) reality of an international space exploration programme spanning 70 years and involving thousands of scientists, engineers, mathematicians, test pilots, astronauts, computer programmers etc.

I have a young friend who is just about to work for the European Space Agency. He has studied applied robotics for 5 years. This is his dream come true. Do you really believe that he, and people like him, wouldn’t blow the whistle if it all turned out to be fake?

Warm regards

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: If a flat earth were proven - what then?
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2019, 11:50:27 AM »
If the Earth were proved to be flat
I think we all here have proven earth is flat and you globers have too low of an intelligence to believe us.

Please could you provide links to these proofs? I’ve been reading the wiki and tons of discussions and haven’t seen anything approaching “proof”.

On the globe side, whatever you may say, are ranged the most brilliant minds of the last several centuries and the inconvenient (for you) reality of an international space exploration programme spanning 70 years and involving thousands of scientists, engineers, mathematicians, test pilots, astronauts, computer programmers etc.

I have a young friend who is just about to work for the European Space Agency. He has studied applied robotics for 5 years. This is his dream come true. Do you really believe that he, and people like him, wouldn’t blow the whistle if it all turned out to be fake?

Warm regards
Think you're talking to a troll.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

SeaCritique

Re: If a flat earth were proven - what then?
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2019, 03:57:30 AM »
[What] do you think it would mean for humanity?

For humanity, it'd be a collective ending to The Truman Show. Truman, faced with insurmountable evidence -- frankly, proof -- of the falsity of his life and the world around him, is still given the option to keep living his fake life in a fake world. Many people, I think, would stay where they are.

With warmest good wishes

Thank you for your interesting question, friend.