[Darkgear]

I cannot figure out why on the west coast of the U.S the sun becomes visible in the sky so much later than on the east coast.

Given the flat geometry of the earth, shouldn't sunrise be at the same time for the entire earth?

[ah4truth2017]

If the sun actually rotates around the disk of the earth, and perspective isn't the thing that causes sunrise/sunset, you would be correct. As I've understood the FET argument:

• Perspective and the "vanishing point," along with "projection" are what cause the visual of a sunrise/sunset.
• That, combined with the sun floating a consistent 3,000mi above the earth rotating around the north pole, completes the explanation of the sun in the FET

[Tom Haws]

If the sun actually rotates around the disk of the earth, and perspective isn't the thing that causes sunrise/sunset, you would be correct. As I've understood the FET argument:

• Perspective and the "vanishing point," along with "projection" are what cause the visual of a sunrise/sunset.
• That, combined with the sun floating a consistent 3,000mi above the earth rotating around the north pole, completes the explanation of the sun in the FET

But these ideas are, if I may say, somewhat vague.

1.
a) Where is the sun on a given day at sunset in Malibu?
b) How do "vanishing point" and "projection" have anything to do with the sinking full-size and full brightness sun?

2.
a) How would "rotating around the north pole" ever cause the full-size and full brightness sun to sink into the ocean?
b) Where is this FET?

[ah4truth2017]

I'm probably not the person to answer much further, but I thought it would be nice to try and answer a question if I was going to be asking any, but may have been better to point to the wiki. https://wiki.tfes.org/Sun

In the research I've done, the FET (flat-earth theory) has a few different arguments that, put together, explain what we see as a sunrise/sunset. Because there are multiple parts to the argument, I haven't necessarily seen them summarized together.

• The sun is a sphere, always 3000 miles above the earth's surface. (not going above & below the disc as the original question assumes)
• As the sun moves away from you, it gets lower in the sky. (The same as clouds & streetlamps do)
• "Projection" (flat-earther word) is the mechanism that allows the sun to appear a consistent size as it gets further away.
• Eventually the sun is so far away that rays of light travel through too much atmosphere to be visible. (Like headlights in fog)

[Tom Haws]

I'm probably not the person to answer much further, but I thought it would be nice to try and answer a question if I was going to be asking any, but may have been better to point to the wiki. https://wiki.tfes.org/Sun

In the research I've done, the FET (flat-earth theory) has a few different arguments that, put together, explain what we see as a sunrise/sunset. Because there are multiple parts to the argument, I haven't necessarily seen them summarized together.

• The sun is a sphere, always 3000 miles above the earth's surface. (not going above & below the disc as the original question assumes)
• As the sun moves away from you, it gets lower in the sky. (The same as clouds & streetlamps do)
• "Projection" (flat-earther word) is the mechanism that allows the sun to appear a consistent size as it gets further away.
• Eventually the sun is so far away that rays of light travel through too much atmosphere to be visible. (Like headlights in fog)

Pretty good. Can somebody confirm this summary?

[Curious Squirrel]

I'm probably not the person to answer much further, but I thought it would be nice to try and answer a question if I was going to be asking any, but may have been better to point to the wiki. https://wiki.tfes.org/Sun

In the research I've done, the FET (flat-earth theory) has a few different arguments that, put together, explain what we see as a sunrise/sunset. Because there are multiple parts to the argument, I haven't necessarily seen them summarized together.

• The sun is a sphere, always 3000 miles above the earth's surface. (not going above & below the disc as the original question assumes)
• As the sun moves away from you, it gets lower in the sky. (The same as clouds & streetlamps do)
• "Projection" (flat-earther word) is the mechanism that allows the sun to appear a consistent size as it gets further away.
• Eventually the sun is so far away that rays of light travel through too much atmosphere to be visible. (Like headlights in fog)

Pretty good. Can somebody confirm this summary?

He's pretty spot on with the addition that the sun/moon are approximately 30 miles in diameter under the 3000 mile high model. That's about the end of the "known" information regarding the two closest bodies in the sky.

[mtnman]

Eventually the sun is so far away that rays of light travel through too much atmosphere to be visible. (Like headlights in fog)

Typical of FE explanations. It's an answer. But it doesn't stand up to the slightest amount of scrutiny. Ever see the sunlight illuminating the bottom of clouds above you after you have seen the sunset? Or perhaps the same effect of seeing sunlight reflecting off an airplane above you after sunset (or before sunrise). You and the clouds/airplane above you are approximately the same distance from the sun, so the light is going through the same amount of atmosphere.

Also, the planet Venus is visible after sunset/before sunrise. Based on its orbit around the sun, it is sometimes father away from us than the sun, but it is still visible, being seen through the same amount of atmosphere.

[ah4truth2017]

Typical of FE explanations. It's an answer. But it doesn't stand up to the slightest amount of scrutiny.

Oh, you don't need to tell me twice. I still have 2 feet solidly on a large sphere. But I've been intrigued by the FE arguments, and thought I'd help @darkgear out with consolidating a summary of the FE theory as it regards the sun. (at least, as I've understood it)

Adding to your list of things that fail scrutiny: If the sun & moon are the same size and same elevation, wouldn't they collide during an eclipse? (One of the eclipses is supposedly a "shadow object"? But that only explains one)  ...or even better: the sun's rays on a hill to the east after it's set. Bottoms of clouds would too easily point to "thinner air allowing light to travel further" but a hill can have a hardly-different elevation.

[Curious Squirrel]

Typical of FE explanations. It's an answer. But it doesn't stand up to the slightest amount of scrutiny.

Oh, you don't need to tell me twice. I still have 2 feet solidly on a large sphere. But I've been intrigued by the FE arguments, and thought I'd help @darkgear out with consolidating a summary of the FE theory as it regards the sun. (at least, as I've understood it)

Adding to your list of things that fail scrutiny: If the sun & moon are the same size and same elevation, wouldn't they collide during an eclipse? (One of the eclipses is supposedly a "shadow object"? But that only explains one)  ...or even better: the sun's rays on a hill to the east after it's set. Bottoms of clouds would too easily point to "thinner air allowing light to travel further" but a hill can have a hardly-different elevation.

As to the first question, the moon 'bobs up and down' along it's orbit, which is also how we get the phases of the moon. At new moon it's below the sun (thus no light strikes the side facing us) and at full moon it's above the plane of the sun. Presumably it does a sort of spiral around the suns orbiting height so that not every new moon produces an eclipse. But their cosmology there is a little wonky and prone to individual interpretation.

Height allowing you to see further isn't always explained by less atmo. A few proponents also claim it has something to do with 'broadening your perspective lines'. Perspective being a thing that affects all objects in this particular model.

[mtnman]

If the sun & moon are the same size and same elevation, wouldn't they collide during an eclipse?

Yes, another question I have asked a few times without getting a response. Although my question wasn't specific to an eclipse, more general about how could two objects with the same altitude and roughly the same orbit have always escaped collision.

[spade11]

Do most flat earthers believe the moon is flat too?

[mtnman]

Do most flat earthers believe the moon is flat too?

In general they believe that the Earth is special and flat, but all the other planets, moons, stars, are round.